@@Wolfen13c that's cap Tesla isn't even driverless if it was better they would have removed the driver and have a robotaxi here already. The fact you still need to monitor the car proves that waymo is better a guy literally slept in a waymo can you sleep in a tesla as the driver? Not hating on Tesla they might beat waymo but not yet.
@pennytrui1149 Nevertheless, I'd rather be in a Tesla in a tight situation and take control. Rather than rely that in Waymo in the same cases a remote operator who controls the car through the remote with internet latency, will correctly take me out. Well, the fact that Waymo requires a staff of remote drivers to solve problems, does not help to scale the fleet that would resources to cope with its support. In addition, tesla is already going to make an announcement of their robot cabs. Where everything will be the same. The only difference is that most likely, as was the case with the first versions of Waymo, the driver will be at the wheel for insurance first. Instead of a remote operator with a remote control. Sorry, I'm using a translator.
It is pointless to comparing a Level 2 driver assist system that lulls the driver into not paying attention, but then expects the driver to take over in an emergency, with a level 4 system that is in total control.
@@AliKhan-pb7ny If its so far ahead, why its limited to few cities and specific areas in those cities and only working on companies cars instead of being accessible and offered to be part of anyone's private car which can drive on any road in entire country?
@@hirokeo You do know that Levels are basically what company gives it to the system and not a representation what it can actually do? While having level 1 system you will not be able to legally call it level 4, you can have level 4 system and legally call it level 2. Level naming only applies one way, you can't call it higher than it is, but you can go lower without any issues. So, that said, instead of doing 4 is bigger than 2, maybe, just maybe, actually look at what those systems can and can't do?... And please, define me "driverless", is it only about not having anyone in a driver's seat? What about remote driver? Does that count as driverless or would it be with a driver?
See below: DRIVERLESS per the oxford dictionary= Capable of traveling without input from a human operator, by means of computer systems working in conjunction with on-board sensors. TESLA OWNER MANUAL= Always remember that Full Self-Driving (Supervised) does not make Model Y autonomous and requires a fully attentive driver who is ready to take immediate action at all times. While Full Self-Driving (Supervised) is engaged, you must monitor your surroundings and other road users at all times.
I was a Tesla fanboy until the FSD drove the car to two portholes and bent the front left rim, which Tesla refused to fix for me for free due to "its the human driver's responsibility during FSD if anything happens." Luckily, the car did not hit a human being but a couple of porthole. So if Tesla is not confident enough to take responsibility while FSD is in use when incident happens, then I cannot be more confident in Tesla than it is in itself.
At the moment anything happens while FSD is on will be drivers responsibility, this is why its a level 2. If you allowed FSD to drive into two potholes and bend your front rim, then that's that.
Thank you for this video. I have been following the progress of automation, and I love to see these comparisons. It would be very helpful if you mentioned what Version of FSD you are on. But a great little video. I would like to see more of these as the FSD is upgraded.
You’re comparing a car that has a ton of expensive equipment and can only drive in a restricted area (LA) with a car with only cameras yet can drive almost as well anywhere in the world. And of course Tesla continues to improve significantly each year. And you can own a Tesla, commute in a Tesla, drive yourself to the hospital in an emergency in your Tesla and so on. The future is definitely Tesla, not Waymo. If everybody has FSD, you can forget about traffic jams and gridlock and rush hour traffic...no more rubberneckers holding up Interstate traffic for miles and so on. Waymo was the quick and dirty early fix, but not the long term solution.
That´s a lie. A Tesla cannot drive "anywhere in the world", or even remotely close to that. I moved another point up here because I find it most important: You idea is stupid from the beginning. Many of the problems "FSD" is known for are not related to Waymo working with maps. Waymo using a map or not is not the difference between Teslas endangering other people in traffic and Waymo not. It should be obvious to you that you cannot map pedestrians or other vehicles. So why would maps be an argument to defend Tesla bringing a dangerous system on the road? The first and most obvious point on that is that it cannot drive autonomously yet, and it is unlikely that it will ever be able to, because the Autopilot lacks a failover system in case the cameras are blinded by the sun, fog, rain, snow or the road markings are in bad shape or it has to find its way in bad lighting conditions. The second point expands on that: It can only drive where it is trained to do so. While it is not reliant on maps, even the AI version has to be trained, and there is a reason why "FSD" (I use quotation marks because it is not FSD) is only available in Canada and the US. They only train for those regions, they only have experience with them, and not even there, after decades of development, are they anywhere close to getting to level 3 where people can actually take their hands off the wheel legally. Instead, their systems are only getting closer to being 99% fine, with the remaining 1% being the instances where it tries to kill you or someone else on the road. The third point is actually a bit more obscure: While the Waymo system does use a high resolution map, there is actually no reason to believe that their system only works with access to those maps. Is it really a bad idea to combine the two? To add maps of certain areas to a regular driving logic that does not rely on maps? You get all the benefits of the normal system with the added safety of the maps.
True. Tesla drives amazing almost anywhere in the world. And getting better by the day. And it shows with their safety ratings and their accident numbers. Incredibly low accidents with FSD enabled rn.
@@nanolog522tesla does operate anywhere in the world, Europe, China, urban, rural, it doesn't matter. Tesla is a generalized, scalable solution that functions in any environment. The rate of change of improvement in the system will allow FSD to be fully functional in a few years
@@frankjfjr That’s not true at all (what a surprise lol). They operate in many places, so they sell cars there. But FSD only works in the US and Canada. Every jurisdiction with different rules of driving will require retraining the entire system, with every trained model having to undergo evaluations for that market.
It depends on how you define winner. Whatever advantages you think Waymo has, You would be a fool to dismiss the advantages Tesla have. I have been following self driving for years, and while it is easy to look at Waymo operating a service now as some sort of lead, It is only in very small areas. Tesla is tackling a much bigger problem, a car capable of driving anywhere, offering a cheap scalable solution. From what I am seeing I would not be surprised to see Tesla operating a level 4/5 service somewhere in America next year. Tesla have all the pieces to dominate in this space.
Waymo is the best, has early move advantage, already working but still losing huge amounts of money. Robo-Taxi is just another form of public transportation, not a something new. Public transportation is a known and finite market there are no "trillions of dollars" on the table. It's just an unlimited liability and a lawsuit magnet.
If there was option to have quick cheap rides in a autonomous car which can get you anywhere you want then quite few people would simply avoid owning their own cars and save money by using these. So yea, this market is "trillions of dollars"
@@frankcoffey It makes them cheaper than having a driver and people can be more willing to use cars which doesn't involve a driver. Just check Uber/taxi market share, all that can and would belong to robo taxi. Ride-hailing market is around 200 billion bucks, give it or take few billion. If there was option for me to just order a car for my grocery shopping or for any trip I would want do to and it would just show up at my doorstep, heck, I'm selling my current car straight away... I'm not driving that much for me to have a need to own personal car if there is actually affordable alternative.
2:48, yep. You said it right. Tesla is hard on human drivers with the warning chime coming on even if the stopping car ahead would still be far ahead; but when I use the FSD, I notice my Tesla also sometimes does not seem want to stop at all if the car in front is stopping and is very close. We are talking about a FSD system which Elon says "is very close to the finished product". Oh boy, it does not seem that way.
Good video. Some context, Tesla has seen massive gains in the last year. So there’s a chance that Tesla will reach feature parity with Waymo, a car that costs literally 10x more ($40K Tesla vs $400K Waymo).
@@Zripas With Tesla it is always the same, FSD is "RoboTaxi" ready to day, but each new release of FSD is then described as a game changer over the previous system. If the improvements between versions are so noticeable it would suggests that the previous system was flawed. "Basically perfect", so is V12 the end of upgrades? Why if it is "perfect" does Tesla not apply for a license to operate driverless? Maybe being able to reverse might be something they want to include?
Unfortunately, Waymo is not scalable in any way. Adding specific geofenced areas city by city is all they can do. Tesla will reach true full autonomy and currently there's noone even close since it's a question of data at the end of the day, and Tesla is at a point of billions of miles recorded which can't be just copied by someone else
@@feuerherz007 Tesla have been very smart in how they have gone about solving automation. They realised from the beginning throwing a ton of sensors at the problem is not the answer. It adds cost, complexity and worst of all fools you into thinking you are farther ahead than you are. Tesla with V12 has shown impressive capabilities, to a point where self driving looks very close. If Tesla continue to improve at their current rate, It is more than possible Tesla could be operating a level 4/5 service somewhere in America next year. Tesla are set to dominate in this space.
Waymo seems to work rather well as an uber type of vehicle. So in a way it becomes quite good at driving, since it gets a lot of experience in a certain region. Conpared to Tesla's more scattered and open self driving that learns a little bit of everywhere. But then again it's a whole different category, since you own the car yourself and what not.
Getting rid of the driver does not mean profit. It's just moving the money to lawyers instead of drivers if you make any money at all. Billions wasted on a bad idea. The smart ones have already cut their losses.
Driverless cars are natural progress and the future one. There is only point you could make here is that current tech doesn't really get to the point where it is at same or better level than average driver, but it will be the future, no escaping this.
Its like saying "Lets ignore every other issue, lets cure cancer first!!!" do you see potential issue here? And its not up to Tesla to solve homeless problem... Its governments job....
Tesla does have a backup of two supercomputers!!! Waymo has way too crap lidar and tons of cameras, and Tesla FSD WILL OUT DO IT ANY TIME AND ANYWHERE! Wait, Waymo cannot get out of its geo-fencing map. Damn limited w
@@BadL_ cap tesla is still lvl 2 while waymo is a lvl 4 on the self driving autonomous list. Once waymo can drive on the freeway it will be better then a tesla in everyway it's already a lot saver. There's even some videos of waymo driving better then version 12 of tesla. When you can sit in the backseat of a tesla and sleep that's when tesla will win. But for now you still need to monitor it so it doesn't do anything dumb so in my opinion it's not beating waymo for now. That's just my opinion tho i Don't hate tesla Edit: while waymo is driving no one is there to grab the wheel or do anything to make it stop or dodge a car. It does everything itself it has to react to traffic itself it can't get help from the headquarters in 0.5 seconds.
@@pennytrui1149 I think they could very much get a level 4 capable system in the next 10 months. Waymo has been on public streets for 3+ years and has barely made any progress on driving more comfortably or on the highway. I just don’t see Waymo being able to catch up on improvements once tesla passes them. But maybe waymo will surprise me
I think waymo is the most advance system out there. Tesla does not even come close. However, I am not sure that as a business model, it is sustainable. For every waymo on the road, there is quite bit of cost behind it. It is not just a high-tech car driving. It is the infrastructure and people you need to hire behind it. You need to build a quite high-tech service center with specialised high-tech employees. You also need to map the area regularly. So, you need a lot of high-tech employees to keep the business running. They are expensive. Your business does not comete with Tesla, your business is competing with regular taxi. If your can not lower your cost to that of a regular taxi in a near future, I don't see a future in your business. I see better chance for Tesla robotaxi.
"I think waymo is the most advance system out there. Tesla does not even come close. " And this is why being ignorant isn't a good thing. Waymo is based on strict rule code, which is basically preprogrammed before hand to work on specific roads and nowhere else, this is why it requires to have prescanned 3D map for that area. While Tesla FSD works on any road and its part of someones private car, not some 250k company owned one.
@@Zripas Exactly! Waymo is NOT sustaniable while Tesla is. At the end of day, there is no point to talk about if you are more advanced if you are not even sustaniable commercially.
@@Zripas Exactly! Waymo is NOT sustaniable while Tesla is. At the end of day, there is no point to talk about if you are more advanced if you are not even sustaniable commercially.
Tesla now has version 12.5.1 which in many ways drives better than waymo It relies only on cameras and AI data, and can drive anywhere, even where there are almost no roads Against this background waymo unfortunately looks like a dead-end branch Sorry I'm writing through a translator.
@@Wolfen13c Yeah, but Waymo has a live human driver that can take over when they are in no win situation. How can you beat a real high pay human driver? My point is---waymo sounds good but it will never work as a commercial product. For what they want to do, they might as well just get low pay taxi driver drive cheap japanese cars.
