We need to talk about land decks. 

The problem with land destruction is that Green players are still better situated to recover faster - be it from playing lands from graveyards, value pieces like Lotus Corbra, or just more ramp. Wave of Vitriol is similar in that is deals with Field of the Dead, but just empowers all the other landfall cards already in play. It's a tough nut to crack outside of just Zozu effects or something.

I was playing Soul of Windgrace the other night and the whole table kept ganging up on me to remove a Glacial Chasm that I kept recurring. And I didn't feel bad. I didn't feel bullied. That was what they NEEDED to do to stop me from winning. I knew it, they knew it, and there weren't any bad feels about it getting removed over and over again. Except maybe that they were tired of having to find answers for it 😉

Confounding Conundrum stopped seeing play fairly early because while it does stop ramp, it makes landfall decks go crazy.

As someone who runs a Child of Alara Baby Gates deck, people need to start playing more land removal. Don't make things too easy for me.

I agree people are getting away with exploiting a loop hole in commander by not being allowed to interact with lands. I see people play mono colored decks with three basic lands now.

Land strategies being OP hit me hard a few years back. That's why my 2 strongest decks are Zimone and Dina lands and Korvold lands. IDK if mass land destruction is a great way to deal with it but wasteland and strip mine should be accepted as important pieces to removal packages. Doesnt solve all issues but they certainly make a difference

I played a game yesterday where From the Ashes destroyed a large chunk of the table's mana base. If I weren't playing mono-red goblins it would've been so much harder to recover.

I run my Zo-zu on MTGO for all the land/landfall matters deck. Turn 5-6 every one is in their 20s it’s a kick to pilot. They own casual table, they need an answer.

I hate to nitpick, but merely thinking I know where the moxfield ad is doesn’t make me a liar, I would have to communicate that in some way in order for me to be liar. Checkmate

What a pleasant surprise, I just saw you at the restaurant I work at! Funny coincidence considering my friend also saw you at his work a few days ago lol

One card you overlooked that is insane is Dust Bowl. repeated targeted land destruction in a deck that runs crucible of worlds is very good.

I just built a River Song deck with a sub theme of targeted land removal. So far I have not put From the Ashes in the deck, but I’m thinking about it. (Along with Blood Moon, of course.😂)The benefit of the River Song deck is that if you choose to look for basic replacements, you have to take damage to the face for searching.

I’m personally fine with blood moon or ruination. It’s not ramping that makes decks strong it’s their ability to fix for their colors early on. I think it’s perfectly fine to slow down the 3+ color decks that run all the sac n pain lands or they just take off before you can get started. Also wasteland and strip mine to get rid of really annoying utility lands.

In 2015 every single one of my commander decks ran crucible of worlds and also strip mine and ghost quarter. Notably, I also got some fetch lands because khans came out and made them accessible to me. I believe every commander deck genuinely should run crucible, strip or ghost quarters and a few lands that fetch lands. They help fix your drops really well, ensure you dont miss land drops when crucible and a fetch is out. Plus, its land destruction that targets degenerate lands. This has been used to degenerately lock some voltron decks out tho-

This is why I run Strip Mine or Wasteland in every deck :^)

If you land ramp, I wont feel bad about casting Decree of Annihilation in my red enchantress deck.

Here's the interesting thing: My 5-color The First Sliver Sliver tribal deck runs mostly basic lands and is still surprisingly consistent. The only nonbasic lands my deck runs are Unclaimed Territory, Sliver Hive, Ash Barrens, Exotic Orchard, and Path of Ancestry. Cards like the ones listed in this video would be great for me to run in my deck, sort of as a trap for my opponents.

Balance should come back. I will not elaborate

I personally love cards like Obsidian Charmaw that do land destruction perfectly well imo. I don’t want mass land destruction, but we do need to normalize and gain access to more targeted land destruction.

I run land destruction more and more everyday. Im so sick of tired of people vandalblasting my rocks when im playing mardu and my ramp is limited to rocks but god forbid i run Armageddon on the same deck to fight against land ramp

I think everyone should include Wasteland and Strip Mine in their decks. 6 removal spells for the lands player along with cards like Generous Gift or Best Within should be enough to keep them in check. It isn't controversial to destroy their lands, it's equivalent to if someone is playing an artifact centric strategy and you destroy their artifacts. You can't just let them do what they want to do.

Damn. That mox ad was so smooth

It's why i try to be a bit more off the beaten path when I play landfall decks. My current one is Orzhov, which isn't very traditional for a landfall set up.

I think your comparison to a red artifact getting hosed by an artifact board wipe was perfect. I play Chiss-Goria, and one well-timed Vandalblast will easily take me out of a game and even remove some lands too. I think it should totally be fine to run some land hate. Decks like Maelstrom Wanderer that just aggressively ramp into threats with Haste need to be controlled

A little surprised you didn’t touch on any of the cards that just allow you to keep up with the player ramping. Almost all in white, but Land Tax, Archeomancer’s Map, and Claim Jumper are solid options. When I’ve run these in flicker decks they seem to do extremely well.

I think Tsabo's Web affects channel lands and Triomes which is pretty good.

The paradox of these wipes, is because it grabs you an equal number of basics, this will trigger landfall where the lands decks will just overwhelm you in value. Hell I'd run them just for that reason AS THE LANDS DECK. I don't think they are as helpful as you think they are. lol

Harbinger of the Seas is new MH3 leak that is basically Magus of the Moon for blue.

i have never had a single person complain after i target remove a cradle or a coffers etc...i think people are a lot more chill than you guys are describing

I love my Windgrace landfall deck. I let people know i'm playing landfall everytime and encourage land destruction. The only problem i have with land destruction is when its everyones lands being destroyed because it slows everyone else down because i have a shit ton of ways to get lands from graveyard.

I bought a confounding conundrum for $1 aud, it was such a bang for you buck card, also got mangara the diplomat for the same price.

Y'all forgot to call out my boy Avalanche Riders. Not the best creature out there but he destroys a land on ETB, which is awesome for reanimation decks! Plus with the Echo he gets himself to the graveyard real quick.

I think if lands are getting you down, it's totally fine to run removal. My suggestion would be the druid that lets you tap 7 druids to steal lands from another player.

Isn’t Urza’s sylex just Skip your turn, balance… Unless you have 10 mana. Then it’s not, but still rough.. Love From the Ashes, also From the ashes could be a ramp spell? 😂 Side side note! Dopplegang is underplayed. I’ve been casting it like nuts and it is unbeatable.

My only landfall deck is Tatyova Steward of Tides, I turn my lands into creatures, it's a pretty fair landfall deck

Print 3 instant and 1 sorcery speed land hate cards, have 1 instant pop 1 basic _or_ 2 special lands, another can pop 1 of any kind, and the other can pop only 1 basic on each player's field. The sorcery can kill exactly 2 of any kind. Problem soved, decks intact

You see the problem with land decks (speaking as a guy with a Landfall deck being the strongest deck i have) is that recovery for them is easy. And in other forms, like say my friend who uses Windgrace, he has lands Like glaciochasm and specialty lands that just make it difficult to target them

I play a mardu deck with jukkalopps and Armageddon. I tell people flat out when I play it, I won't play it unless someone really makes me have no choice, I may play as a 98 card deck most of the time.....but I have really saddened land decks before

Could Stax and Hatebears work as an effective counter to Lands decks?

I run 3-5 land destruction in all my decks. Though I always use removal that gives them something in return so they're not to salty. I got tired of loosing to Rogue's Passage in my play group 😂.

I try to keep 2-3 of each basic in my deck if it’s a 5 color.

Finally. This archtype has been driving me fucking crazy

I'm fine with Land Destruction so long as the effect replaces the destroyed land(s) with basic lands. This is so the recipient can still somewhat stay on curve while preventing the powerful lands from being a threat.

This just makes me want to play a blue lands deck so i can counter your mld, you put in armageddon, im going to put in 12 Counterspells just to be ready for each other player to have one

Wave of Vitreol in my Mazirek Deck just won me so many games 😅

in my experience landfall is basically just spellslinger but you can't counterspell it

Omnath laughs in the face of Wave of Vitriol and From the Ashes.

Shoutout to Soul of Windgrace, my preferred lands commander. Also Undiscovered Paradise is a slept on land.

Always run a Strip Mine. You can use it as a colorless and I'm sure at least one of your three opponents will try to politic with ya :)

I run from the ashes over ruination in my temur list. Have like 20+ basics too so I’m never hurt by it.

Blowing up the lands doesn't help because the lands deck get the value on them being played, not on them existing. They aren't like artifacts that need to stay in play. Go ahead, blow up all the lands after Field of the Dead has made 10 tokens. You're just guaranteeing you lose then. The effect they need to print are things like Ankh of Mishra that deal damage on extra lands being played. Just staple those onto creatures. "Whenever a land enters the battlefield, if it was not the first land that entered for that player that turn, [something bad happens]," like they discard a card or take 3 damage or something. That's what is needed.

I just use my energy cards from pokemon tcg bulk and use mass land destruction 🤷🏻‍♂️ can’t destroy energy

I bought 10 copies of techtonic edge and put them in all my mono and 2 color decks and gave the rest to my friends to stop child of alara.

Since its not one sentence.. can you respond to sac land part of scapeshift to make opponent sac then not be able to fetch?

Nothing wrong with targeted land destruction. When it comes to mass land destruction in my experience it sucks the fun out of the room the same way overly aggressive control decks do. People want to play the game and when you come to the table to play solitaire you'll soon find yourself alone. My group banned land destruction completely (I've been advocating recently to let targeted destruction in) mostly because we were new to commander and someone dropping a mass land wipe just bogged the game down and made everyone lose interest.

Can we dunk on enchantress decks next? They are almost as hard to interact with after all and tend to be somewhat taxy/staksy while drawing a new hand every turn.

Don't worry we can play those busted lands like fotd and that'll allow us to play that new colourless counter spell that'll also allow us to kill basically every commander

I usually send my pod your videos but I think I will tuck this one away 😂 my field of the dead already gets hit by the occasionally ghost quarter effect and I don’t need them seeing all these other ways to hate out 3 of my 4 decks LOL 😂 still gonna smash that like button though

Price of progress is hilarious in Indoraptor lol

I have been running some level of Land Destruction in evey deck since Lord Windgrace was printed. Once a player starts using their lands for value beyond just tapping for mana the lands are fair game for removal.

I have a fun and fair landfall deck that does fun stuff but doesn't go too hard. Moxfield: 'This Land is My Land'

And here I am sleeving up Armageddon for my yuma deck

Huge w

PSA to literally everyone: DO NOT use mass land destruction to punish the lands decks! They WILL have ways to rebuild faster than everyone else and WILL have ways to get their important parts back!

The real solution is to understand that land strategy decks are one of those taboo styles of decks that we should consider. It should definitely be part of the rule zero conversation. It isn’t that we should just run mass land destruction every single deck.

Also, run a Strip Mine.

Land decks are powerful because mass land destruction is frowned upon. Print cards that say "Destroy target opponent's lands" and make it white so I can blow out a landfall deck

I run ghost quarter, tec-edge, or strip mine in almost every single deck I build. They’re free rolls

idea for a video discussion: do you agree ramp is a fondamental part of magic? otherwise non green commander with cmc>4 would be useless. So why widzard continues to print more and more vandablast effect? It's a big hole in game design, so big. WHY

Blood Sun is so busted when combined with Lotus Vale, Lotus field and Scorched Ruins for no drawback turbo ramp....it's totally worth $0.22

Beezy why hasn't there been an Amber tail cards for a proxy. Or why hasn't WOTC invented an card like that? Great video you guys. KEEP STAYING PAWZITIVE 👍

If the power level is 8 or more, l will run Armaggedon and Ravages of War. Is simply unfair you have artifacts removal, when l dont play green (l dont play green). "But the game will last forever" . Usually, dont. But you can concede too.

If people can cast spells to destroy all artifacts or creatures, mana rocks and mana dorks respectively, it's the same as land destruction.

played a From the Ashes, thinking it was fair enough to have everyone get basic lands. turned out the Ur dragon player played no basic lands. so i guess that player learned a valuable lesson that day.

Whenever someone plays Rhystic Study, I immediately ask, "can anyone deal with this?" to set the tone that the power card has been played. I should do that with Field of the Dead as well

lotta comments explaining why the lands matter decks benefit most from MLD. ill caveat the video by saying run more GY hate as well cuz the lands decks usually have ways to get them back

Normalize winter orb

The answer is honestly really simple, magic just needs to print the opposite of catch up ramp Far ahead land destruction. Multi target land destruction that only works on the player with the most land. Any kind of tax against the highest land count player.

Psst. Keldon Firebombers. Psst. Tectonic Hellion. Psst. Volcanic Offering.

"Damn kids, GET OFF MY LAWN!!"

Nobody has a problem with someone blowing up their cabal coffers, field of the dead, or nykthos. I play one deck where i combo mycosynth and vandalblast as a wincon, i always warn the table ahead of time, since it is my wincon, no one has had an issue.

Here's how I see it: Game 1- ok that was neat how you built your LF, glad it worked. Game2- ok, you didn't change decks so maybe you have a different win...nope, same thing as before. Game 3- I see you're still not changing decks. Here's your options, either switch up or don't cry when we all single target you into oblivion.

These decks are why I love Blood Moon/Ruination 😈

Being a newer Magic player I don't understand the issue with land destruction. Especially when "Cards will resolve that make that worse for you" //" It's just part of the game" But literally so are Armageddon/Blood Moon/ etc. Cherry picking that you don't want your lands destroyed but are okay with "some" land destruction depreciates player agency. Why is it okay to have mass removal of everything except your mana source? I get that people don't want their things taken away, or they don't want the games to drag on forever, or whatever other excuse you have, but it works just like everything else, you should have held your counter spell. I don't understand why we are okay with infinite combos that break the game, and people just say get good and know what to counter/remove but then won't apply it to cards like this. It's the exact same concept, if you don't like it, don't let it resolve. Again this is coming from the eyes of someone who is new to Magic but I must disagree with the entire premise of land destruction being a bad thing. *Edit "It's just a consequence of the game." I hate to just pull direct quotes from the video that corroborate how I feel about the situation but I think it only stands to prove my point.

Really surprised how sweaty and aloof the viewer base can be here...

Personally I love permanent/land boardwipes as wincons. I run Obliterate and Jokulhaups in my Windgrace deck (as long as Windgrace is out, you usually win on the spot, even moreso if you have some grindy enchantment or Heroic Intervention), and Decree of Annihilation in my Gavi deck (build a board of 20 cat tokens and wipe all lands, hard to lose from there).

I have a suggestion: if a group plays the cards suggested (Wave of Vitriol, From the Ashes...etc), it would be good to let the group know a week before the games so that everyone can prepare for it. Mass Land-D is Mass Land-D even if you leave them with 5 or 6 basics. I think it would be a good idea to declare you are playing Mass Land-D before games, especially when playing with strangers. Lastly, can we have a "Voja (or other commanders) decks are powerful" and how to hose them series?

This is a Zozu, the Punisher appreciation comment 🔥 ⚡️

LANDS FTW, I CAST FOREST -Nissa Enjoyer

I disagree saying bloodmoon is too neiche or only good vs landfall. Im a huge blood moon lover, it handles strong lands like cabal coffers, and it can punish 3c+ players. Im a believer that you should be punished for playing more colors, ive seen decks with NO basics in them and blood moon evens the playing field. Also its an enchantment, and no one packs enough enchantment removal so it sticks around

How you gonna release this, just when I make my first land deck 😂😅

12:35

I played scarecrow king once and had to stop because all my friends said it waaent fair, even the mill player 🤣

Primal Order

The top of the meta has no problem with lands.

Motherlode excavator…get wrecked 😅

I clicked on this video for advice on how to build my like 5th lands video

No helldozer in this list

I love land decks and land destruction. Amulet titan is my favorite modern deck. Land destruction, stax, instant wins and combos should be normalized in commander. But the most needed thing to normalize: conceding the game if it's all over. Stop running the clock for no reason. Commander players need to learn how to concede and move on to the next game.

from a land deck player stop blowing up my spot imma start loosing more games now >:(