Weber Workshops Key Grinder Review 

Ah something within my price range, that spray bottle is something to indulge on.

Big kudos for the price discussion. In my opinion, most tech reviewers give pricing too little importance because they receive the products for free. Once you pay the full price your expectations increase.

Hey James! Thank you for sharing my review in the description. I’m humbled & grateful! I agree with everything you shared and truthfully this is a grinder that I have a love hate relationship with. While ultimately it makes delicious coffee in a compact beautiful package I, like you, haven’t had issues with alignment. But I do feel for those who have. I purchased this out of pocket and I was left wondering if my money was well spent because of its workflow quirks. I decided that it was based on the overall grinder experience alone. But I’d understand why others wouldn’t agree. I’m excited to continue to research variable RPM and it’s impact on uniformity and taste. Thanks for sharing! 😃

oh thank goodness. I was just about to start working for the day.

That intro... I don't think I've ever had so many feels for a piece of coffee equipment... Stunning work!

First off, I was shocked to see my video referenced by the grandaddy of coffee himself, what an honour. Also, we're all excited to see this review. I was debating about getting an additional WDT tool but have been getting good consistent shots with just the magic tumbler + wiper, this confirms it for me, no need for me to add 1 more tool and step to my workflow for a marginal improvement.

It’s been interesting to see other’s experiences with the Key, and I was definitely curious to hear what you had to say. It would appear you’ve had a much more positive experience than I on every level. This further makes me sure there was something significantly wrong with my grinder and when in tandem with Weber’s abysmal (to say the least) customer service I found myself wanting it off my counter. Of course everyone who backed it took a risk (my first and last backing on coffee gear) and I felt like it was a calculated risk, but a risk nonetheless. That risk wasn’t worth it for me, and resulted in a lot frustration, buyer’s remorse, and subsequently drama. Like you said no one can tell those in the market for a grinder in this price range if it’s worth the cash, but I applaud you for sharing links to a broad spectrum of reviews for a fuller picture.

The cinematography of this... Is Amazing. I would appreciate a behind the scenes of the making this video as much as I appreciate your review. There is a reason why you're the Gold Standard of Coffee Experts that people are drawn to and your artistry in presentation is one of the many reasons you remain at the top.

If you want to test the center shaft alignment as it grinds, you could use a machinist's center dial indicator to see if the shaft strays from the center.

I love that your videos are just equally good in a coffee way and in a video making way. Such cinematic shots you got going on.

I just got one of these (Weber Key) and thought I would post my initial impressions. First off, there is some assembly required. James doesn't mention this, perhaps he was furnished with a grinder which was already fully assembled and calibrated. The magic tumbler installation is sadly non-trivial. You have to lay the grinder on its side and use a hex key to remove a screw and a plastic axle cap, then replace the axle cap with a washer and the stirring device for the magic number. This sounds trivial but in practice the screw is cranked on so tight that it is necessary to perform the "last resort method" described in the user guide which consists of removing the gearbox cover so you can put something through a hole in the axle to prevent the axle from spinning while you loosen the bolt/screw with the hex key. And when you remove the bolt/screw, the inner burr is free to fall out should you turn the grinder right side up again for any reason. If this happens, be aware there is a tiny piece of steel called a key which may fall out. This happened to me and I didn't notice at first. I found it on the floor later. This tiny piece of steel sits partly in a groove on one side of the axle and partly in a corresponding groove on the inside of the inner burr. Getting this piece back in place in the correct orientation and reinstalling the lower burr is tricky, especially if you have big hands. Without this "key" in place the inner burr is free to spin around the axle rendering any attempted calibration or grind adjustments useless. Also, if you tighten the screw too much after installing the magic tumbler you won't be able to turn the burr mount at all to back it off the required 1 3/4 turns from the zero (burr contact) point. Anyway, after an email exchange with support I finally got the grinder assembled properly and was able to successfully calibrate it. I feel the grinder should come already assembled with the tumbler option one ordered. The customer should not have to go through this hassle.

Finally seriously considering an upgrade in my grinder and thus have been watching all your other videos. The production quality and your presence on camera has only gone up! Love it!

This review is as objective as one could make, especially after all the controversies happened around this product. Well done! (The intro is really awesome btw)

Your editing for that intro keeps getting elevated to new levels! It's amazing!

Crazy special effects in the intro shots, well done James!

Just have to say the production quality of the intro was phenomenal. Your video style and aesthetic is definitely a favorite and what drew me to watch one of your videos for the first time, a few weeks ago. It was the video that you introduced the poster and shirts for sale. I was about to instantly buy a shirt since I liked it so much.

That intro though! Fantastic camera work. This is why you are set apart from the rest. Another banger, thanks for the review!

Damn, this see-through B-roll of the motors in the intro was incredible! Stellar work as always!

that intro sequence!! 🤯

I think that might be your most beautifully shot intro yet, and that's saying something! Great work as always.

That’s one of the most impressive intros I can remember seeing in any product-review RU-vid video ever

Waiting for my unit as well. I think at this price range and with the long pre-order time, it’s normal to have high expectation. After seeing few reviews, I’m just hoping it won’t be a disappointment. Thank you for a very thorough review as usual.

Just received my KEY. Proud owner of HG1, loved it, and saw this motorized version, jumped on the deal last year April. Promised to receive it last year October, but got postponed, and I just got it today. Compared it to my HG1, very similar. Compared to my Niche Zero, which I used previously when I had parties around, because it's not easy to grind manually, it's just like my HG1, it's so much cleaner, less residual grinds (fine powders), and the extraction was a lot smoother. Previously, I had to counter it by using under puck filters when I was using my Niche, but on this, with or without under puck filters perform very similarly, only affects less than 0.1-0.2% EY, unlike Niche Zero, can go up to 2% EY when using under puck filters. This one grinder can make me retire both my Niche Zero and HG1, and free up so much counter space. This alone is worth more than what I paid for. Anyway, I'll be removing the paper clip, and doing WDT anyway.

Love the camera work in the intro! Really great work

Every grinder review - feat. Niche Zero grinder! Another epic review, thank you, James! You made my trip back to the office so much better this morning!

Great review, as always James! Also fantastic that you looked into the effects of variable grind speeds a bit. Still hoping for a more exhaustive venture into this subject. Cheers

So glad to see the Niche stil up, running, and being compared to!

Hello James and beautiful video as always and a hypnotic intro that might as well have been a professional commercial!

The intro though. James’s cinematography never ceases to amaze

That intro is WILD! Hats off to the whole team for that one

i love how honest these are. what i dont like is to se how expensive things still dont provide an all around good experience. shame on the manufacturers. i should be satisfied with every aspect of a thing if i spent that much money

That intro made me realize that my man is the MKBHD of coffee

That intro just blew my mind! So good!

Wow, next level of cinematography!

Great review, probably my most anticipated RU-vid video to date! I’ve had my Key for about 3 weeks and although I had struggles dialling it in and some spurting from the first 5 or so shots it seemed to settle down and after about a week of using it I have been happy with the shots (clarity definitely true vs the Niche still sat beside it but less texture as James said). Workflow is great, I don’t RDT, instead using the glass tube caddy I ordered with it and get only a little static in the magic tumbler as well as good results with channeling without WDT, which I’ve given up on as I agree with James that it get you close enough to not necessarily need it, although I do get it out occasionally for a bad ‘drop’ into the basket. There are quirks and the paperclip thing is great but annoying to get around. I’d rather it was higher and you could let the magic tumbler centre before then lifting it straight up into place, but the paperclip is unfortunately too low. All in all though it looks and feels fantastic, workflow is great, shots and filter taste great and I don’t regret pre-ordering, despite the 5 months wait.

Really enjoyed this video, thanks James.

This production level of intro video from a coffee guy, our life is definitely getting better!

Great review, thanks James! Still waiting for mine.

The production level of the intro has gone up a massive level! Well done!

Fancy editing Mr. Hoffman! 🔥

What i love about my niche (appart from the grind quality), is the workflow, so pleasant. I feel that even pouring beans in this weber seems tedious, avoiding the big metal bar and not spilling beans, , adjusting grind setting to, the lid that you had to remove and coffe ground poping and making a mess, workflow seems finicky. I love the magnet base tho

Ah James, these videos are how dreams are made. I have found that as soon as I discovered you my coffee game shifted immensely, and my desire to seek out an affordable way to make an amazing cup of joe has taken on a very thoughtful path. But then I get sucked into the next level just above where I am that keeps me wondering, how far do I need to go, or want to go, or can afford to go and these reviews help me to make that decision clearly because I feel I can trust in your opinions, and I haven’t been let down. Because of you I have my Niche and I haven’t been happier or ever tempted to up my game. And even though I have what I love and don’t see myself wanting another grinder I still love watching these videos, with their production values, and awesome detailed reviews. Thank you.

That's the best intro I've ever seen. - On anything. - Ever! I watched it more than once.

I have got my Niche for two months very happy with it for my daily cuppa.

Dear James, Thanks for your review! I am waiting for mine.

I really love how thing the machine is. There isn't much space in my apartment and this form factor would make the best use of the space I have.

Seeing this, and its price, makes me appreciate just what a good deal my Kopi Deva was. Those two grinders aren't a million miles apart in terms of philosophy, but the Kopi was a fraction of the cost and, to my mind, benefits from way better ergonomics.

I've only watched 21 seconds but need to express my appreciation for the cinematography. James' content has always been useful and entertaining, but it's becoming increasingly beautiful too ❤

I went ahead and ordered one when I saw the intro.... time to watch the rest of the video now

I've enjoyed this, thank you ❤️

Guess I will keep using my little Hareo hand grinder then, but I’m just doing V-60 poor overs not pulling shots so... Beautifully done and honest as usual!

Thank you, James!

Thanks for the great review. I've had this grinder now for two weeks and here's my two cents. I live in NYC and like all residents of this metropolis, counter space is at a premium. I use an Olympia Cremina for my espresso and I was looking for a grinder that had an equally small footprint, if not smaller. I also wanted a grinder that could grind any bean with some sort of exacting marker system. My old grinder was the Olympia Moca grinder and I found the setting indicator to be very frustrating. I couldn't switch beans and then switch back and just go right to the previous setting easily. It was always a search. Also, the Moca grinder never seem to grind fine enough, even with me taking it apart and making a finer adjustment. I find the Key can grind anything and switching back to a previous bean super easy to do. Overall, I am super happy with this grinder. I feel it to be a huge step-up from the Moca. I will say, even though it's suppose to be "preseasoned" I find that to not be the case. The first shots I pulled on this, even with the correct grind, were not great but each shot is getting better and better. After just two weeks I find I'm making great espresso. That all being said is it worth 2K? No Idea. I, like you got it for the preorder price. Also, the Cremina has a 49mm basket and I find this grinder with the standard tumbler is fantastic.

I absolutely love that dumping mechanism of the "magic tumbler"

Great review, thank you! My Key has gotten a LOT better the more beans I've used. I'd recommend sticking to pour over for like 5 lbs first, then trying espresso. The burrs felt dull when new and after a few pounds, they feel sharp. I have the same problem with beans getting stuck in the funnel when using RDT and hiding under the lid, so I agree it's better not to use it. One of my favorite features is how easy it is to clean the burrs vs many other grinders while keeping your exact setting (my Forte BG is easier, my Niche is harder). For removing the installing the burrs, I use a 4nm bicycle Torqkeys torque tool and a cut rubber exercise band to hold the shaft. Always the same preload, never worry about slipping during grinding.

That was one hell of a sick inro!

Ever since I discovered your videos I have gone down the rabbit hole of espresso and I love it. For your next video could you cover pressurized vs non pressurized portafilters. Thanks!

Great reviewer! Like you, I hope every reviewers will evaluate a product as if he/she is putting his/her hard earned money.

Awesome awesome intro video, major step up from your older ones and those aren't bad by any means. Congrats! First thing looking at the design, that grinder shaft was too long and exposed, the popcorning ring should be clear like the Niche. If one still has to WDT grinds then I would probably remove that paperclip thing. Really appreciated you did this via patreon and sharing honest opinions, cheers!

Great video. Was tempted by this but bought a etzinger light T instead can't wait to see what it's like!

That intro was absolutely off the chart!

I need my grinder to be here. Ordered on 04/07/2021, and still waiting to be shipped. Thank your for addressing the scaling issue, I think the frustration a lot of early backers have is the delay in shipping, pandemic and all….

James Hoffmann, that is the best in depth review i have ever seen for which a billion thanks 👏🏼👊🏼🙏🏼

The B-roll on this review is really nice

As always James, your last 2-4 min of your videos wrap it all up in a neat package with a beautiful bow on top. Thank you so much for your honest reviews. One ask, Rather than the niche comparison can you do a short with a comparison to the Option-O 64 that you referenced. Closet price point with similar features I would love to hear your thoughts.

The magic tumbler sounds like a great idea, I really hope to see that feature in other grinders moving forward.

I didn't buy this grinder at launch even though I had the money and need, at the time. I really wanted to wait for this review. I'm very glad I did. I'm happy to wait for V2, as this grinder ticks almost all of my boxes, it's just the workflow that I was waiting to see.

The intro is 🔥

Initial b-roll was on point!

Just want to mention the background music at the beginning of each video is so cool

Can't take my eyes off the tummy. Dunno why but it is kind of pleasing feeling as a I listen to the review.

gotta say for $2000 this thing should be able to grind ROCKS at the lowest RPM without issue Let alone coffee

This man's voice makes me smile.

love this review

I have a Rok manual grinder, great grinder and suited my budget....fixed the popcorn issue with a pringles lid, (Friend recommendation) it fitted like if it was made for it and comes with some chips on it

Best reviews in the game.

In regards to the issue where the grinder stalls after back to back shots - even moving to a coarser grind: this is because the motor itself will heat up under load. This leads to a higher voltage that is being pulled by the motor in order to maintain the same level of grind consistency (adding even more heat to the motor), which eventually leads to worse and worse performance since electronic motors perform poorer in high temperature conditions. This is why PCs will thermal throttle in order to stop the machine from damaging it's own components under load and why fans are a necessity for them to run properly. Your grinder performing worse after being put through lots of work back to back is by no means an issue Weber introduced, but more of an issue with how motors and electronics work in general. You are right in saying that the motor is working very hard and potentially becoming damaged from doing too much work. Great review though! I love how deep you go into all your reviews. Keep up the good work!

I finally bit the bullet and bought a Niche Zero for myself at the end of last year. Not only did it arrive much faster than I anticipated, but the price has been stable for some time (~$550 USD). The improvements to this machine since the first run of them were noticeable and appreciated. They did listen to their customers, and that feels really good. The dosing cup feels heavier and of higher quality. It no longer has that ridge on the inside for grounds to get stuck, and the interior bottom is parabolic. They have the anti-popcorning disc standard in the grinders, now, but they're still removable. The overall feel of the grinder feels a little "tighter" than the first versions, though that could also be because the V1 I've been using has been trucking for over two years, now in a cafe setting, where it sees intermittent back-to-back use on a daily basis. As such, I feel like not only did Niche just nail it out of the gate with a reasonably priced grinder in terms of usability, footprint, and ergonomics, the longevity is apparent, even with the early models. Weber makes beautiful machines, for sure, but I'll sacrifice the gorgeous brushed metal and sleekness for the FAR more affordable (for me) option that does everything I want and need without the things I know would annoy me (like the grind adjustment ring).

The Weber pepper mill is also amazing

The main difference seems to be the fixing of the inner grinder and outer grinder parts. For the inner grinder part: In the Niche, there is some horizontal flexibility due to only the top bearing being fixed (in a plastic holder!). The bottom bearing is done by the motor which is kept in place by flexible rubber fixers. In the Weber the grinder axle is locked by 2 fixed bearings, making it more stable. The motor is connected flexible to the fixed axle (it seems by belt drive). For the outer grinder part: In the Niche, the outer grinder is placed in a cylinder container holding it. The horizontal play depends on how accurate the 2 fit. The grind adjuster is a screw-part that moves up-down and pushes the outer grinder part down on springs. It keeps the outer grinder part flat, but not fixing it in place, allowing it to move horizontally (depending on the tolerances of the container-grinder). In the Weber, I noticed that the outer grinder part is fixed to the screw-part that adjusts the grind size (move up down on the screw thread). The metal ring is just to lock the screw-part. In total, the Weber has the potential of being more stable while the Niche probably allows more horizontal move (wobble) of the grinder parts. The wobble would be due to the coffee pushing against the grinder parts when distributed uneven or by differences in hardness of coffee beans.

I was surprised how much clarity you can get from those burrs at lower rpm and how well it works for coarser brew methods as well. It seems pretty unimodal style (except with a kinda Unami like richness) I mean for a conical burr grinder it seems more like what people think of a flat burr especially compared to something like a Eureka grinder which is more traditional and not so high clarity usually. . Seems like Hoffman was maybe referring to Eureka (single dose grinder) talking about there always being risks and potential issues with pre orders / first batches of grinders or anything. I'm pretty happy with the Key or those burrs at least. I think Weber as a company and their responses left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.

That is an exceptionally large amount of money for a grinder of this quality. Seems like there are many other options under that price point that makes this stick out like a very expensive sore thumb

It's majestic and god-like

I found for me the best workflow is with the magic tumbler WITHOUT the built in WDT tool, and no wiper arm either. It usually doesn't need it anyway (decaf or really dark oily coffee might stick to the tumbler walls a bit more though) I also don't use RDT.

Thanks for the detailed review, James. The intro editing was truly next-level, and is setting a new bar for the rest of the coffee world. I think you picked up on a a few points that we tend to agree with internally, in particular the part about the stainless dosing cup. That and the RDT spray bottle are the “off the shelf” items we just buy in bulk and include for convenience, with the workflow really intended for use with our own Bean Cellars (over half of customers purchase them together as an add-on accessory). We will be adding our suggested workflow for espresso to our RU-vid channel (we currently have in there for the EG-1), including the use of EPFs (espresso paper filters) that we just announced last week. Overall a very fair and honest review, and we’re always happy to hear your feedback. While production speed has been incredibly affected by the pandemic, we’re not letting that affect output quality. In the end this was a crowdfunded project, different from our usual mode of operation, and we are extremely grateful for all those who backed it and helped make it a reality. Our team has experience designing and producing very large volume products (iPod, iPhone, Google phones, etc.), so this bridges the gap for us from low-volume boutique items and super high volume electronics. Lastly, we will of course extend your product warranty to whichever of your Patreons wins the KEY =)

Beautiful grinder

Still waiting for mine... As long as quality isn't compromised, I can wait.

Best. Nap. Ever. Your voice is so nice and soothing, it lulled me into sleep on the couch. I am not saying you are boring, I was just very tired after a poorly slept night and a day of work.

I pre-ordered one after being quite frustrated of the difficulty to order a Niche, had been trying for months + in some parts of the world the Key with discount wasn't that much more expensive than the Niche. Do have to say that I was quite nervous with the IGG backing of a product that had 0 review, but I liked the concept and quite relieved to see your review!

Back in the 2000s my main grinder was a three phase Robur with the 83mm burrs, driven by a variable frequency drive. I found, just as you did here, that lower rpms at the same grind setting gave slower espresso flow rates. Seemed to me that the slower speed kept each bean in contact with the burrs (and other beans) longer, resulting in more crushing and smaller average particle size.

JAMES, love seeing another review video. thank you very much, your audience is always eternally grateful. I was hoping I could ask for a review. all around me, my compatriots are buying (as am I), the Breville/Sage Barista Express. we'd love to hear your opinion on this machine, and how to maximize its use. with the help of your videos I've been able to get it to the best expression of espresso that I can. Sometimes even better than most coffee shops in my area. Hope you do one soon.

Random suggestion that may appeal to your inner obsessive nerd: At some point you should invest into a set of classifying meshes and actually compare different grinders and grind settings, and for each grinder, produce a histogram of particle sizes. Then to top it off, experiment with how those particle size histograms affect taste. You could even try out how an espresso made with only a very specific particle size or a custom blend of particle sizes comes out. That would be peak coffee nerdism.

Hey from Las Vegas. So Mom and Dad just got off the plane they came back from Hawaii with ground single estate 100% Hawaiian coffee medium roast. I made two cups of it. Its strong as heck so i grab a 6 inch pan roast the ground coffee before I brew the coffee.time consuming and worth it. Ever tried it? It's like taking a light roast coffee and turning it into a dark roast right there in your kitchen it makes the coffee taste better and makes you feel good about what you've done all that jazz anyway happy Easter

Ah yes, here I am, with my 160 pound feldgrind for daily use for making aeropress in my small oneroom appartment, watching a review of a $2000 product I will never ever buy. Great review as always

I really like the design and the way it works. I don't know if I want to spend that much. But it looks so damn appealing to me.

Beautiful.

At the price, it seem peculiar to not include proper motor control from Weber's side. A brushless motor with field control could easily maintain proper torque at all speeds at very little additional cost. They are becoming more common in battery powered hand tools, so why not in coffee grinders that cost 10x as much.

This production value is INSANE

James: The paper clip helps declump the grounds Me: Oooh neat... James: But does it work? Me: Oh my God yeah does it work?

So in Australia. The niche is running $1800. The key grinder in total cost me $2200 because I was an early backer. The final price is closer to the $3000 mark. Will have to see if I can justify the little bit extra for the key over the niche.