When you're avidly watching a man describe shots of coffee as tasting more or less conical than each other, you have to ask yourself, am I too far down the rabbit hole?
For me it’s less of a rabbit hole and more of rabbit dungeon where only occasionally do I come up to see the light when I go make a sandwhich or pick up my mail or whatnot.
Just spent 18min learning about a product I can neither afford nor could justify if I could afford it...but, it was worth it for two reasons...always enjoy James at his best AND the double spoon comment, classic :) always a pleasure James!
Love to see James testing coffee and espresso machines, so refreshing and entertaining! Always get the ad by the brand wolfmiu and everytime I think what would James say? 😂 Because I think the aesthic of the filter machine is breathtaking. Love to see james opinion someday :)
One benefit of a manual grinder no one has mentioned... Still useable during blackouts and zombie apocalypses! Btw love the drinking tumbler at 13:28 which brand is it?
Me: I will literally never ever ever pay that amount of money for a grinder. Also me: I will watch every second of this video regardless, as if ready to purchase immediately.
And I might have no use whatsoever for this but damn me if by the end I didn't ponder the idea of buying one. I'd like TV a lot more if ads were this informative and aesthetically pleasing.
@@BlairdBlaird yes it would be nice if TV had advertising for well crafted things rather than rapidly produced "we can get away with that" quality builds.
The grind numbering reminded me of an aperture ring on a Leica lens - which is no bad thing. In fact the overall aesthetic is very photographic - I thought at first you were reviewing a darkroom enlarger... PS - nice review as always, although i'm very happy with my Commandante!
I’d prefer, over the leather, two pieces of wood that match the brush handle and jigsaw together around the central stand. That would provide a similar aesthetic but lay nice and flat. The only thing that looks odd to me is how the leather doesn’t sit perfectly flat, given how perfect the rest of the machine looks and presumably feels. A stunningly beautiful machine though to be sure.
Webber responded and explained that if you dunk it in lukewarm water for 2 seconds and let it dry with a book on top of it, it will become flat and stiff. I personally love how it looks after it’s treated.
@@VexChoccyMilk Wouldn't be surprised if it's basically impossible to ship it in a way that keeps it flat: it's the sort of thing that would easily warp if the humidity wasn't exactly right. So then there's the counter-counterpoint that they should use appropriate materials so that it's perfect from the factory, if it costs $1650.
Aside from that leather pad that curls up at the corners, this is a gorgeous piece of equipment. My butler can barely contain his excitement as he waits for it to be delivered.
No kidding. The one detail that has a cheap look, and it's so obvious! And I'm really confused why it's set under the support piece. For that price, you'd expect a square of embossed leather with some patina, inset flush to the base.
Webber responded and explained that if you dunk it in lukewarm water for 2 seconds and let it dry with a book on top of it, it will become flat and stiff. I personally love how it looks after it’s treated.
I really just *like* this man. I've been drinking espresso for most of my life ((and i'm old)), and he's gotten me into an entirely new realm of home ((and out)) coffee experiences. What a great, informative, and fun way to learn! James is excellent!
I must admit that your videos are kind of a therapy for me. There is much to enjoy when watching them: - beautiful editing - excellent choice of music - great macro shots - I don't know much about lighting, but it all looks put well together - the hair (no further comment needed) - the calming voice - the British accent - coffee - tech-stuff - the jokes I could go on and on, but I need my therapy now.
I have the HG-1, the tumbler that isn't magnetic and I have the brush standalone. I've had them for some years now. Your leather mat looks really bad compared to mine. I think you must have gotten a bad batch of it. Mine looks darker with no white spots and it doesn't curl at all. I'm really really pleased with my leather. After each grind I lift the upper ring up and I brush the burrs while the wheel is doing its spin, so every piece falls through the grinder, literally zero retention. I'm very pleased with my grinder. It can be a bit hard to grind light roast, and I mean nordic light, light, so I just press the wheel down and back up reversed the same way. So I go half a clock on repeat instead of a full clock. It doesn't grind the beans when going reverse and the only hard part is grinding upwards, which I eliminate. It's cool to finally see you review the HG grinder, even though it is the second and not first.
As a long time HG-1 user, this is a great review. The jumping while grinding is certainly a learning curve. I remember being rather disappointed when I first got mine. But after some time, and further seasoning of the burr set, I never have that issue regardless of roast level. In fact, most coffees can be ground without holding the support handle. The gear set on the HG-2 is cool. I counted 50 rotations for James to grind 18g of coffee. That goes down in time. My HG-1 has the TiN burr set as well, and currently grinds ~1g of coffee per rotation. So usually I dose 20.5 g and takes me 22 rotations to clear the burrs. At the end of the day, this grinder isn't for most people. But I absolutely love mine and am so happy to use it many times a day.
I like how every criticism starts with 'ignoring the absurd price', but then descends into intense and specific nitpicks. For my 2 cents, as a left hander, I can't get behind this. At $1650, it should have been ambidextrous, or designed so it can be assembled as a mirror image, maybe with a couple of minor part swaps so the burrs still turn the correct way. At least with 'peppermill' style hand grinders, you can still use them ambidextrously, even if it is slightly less comfortable rotation in the other hand. I really don't see the issue with the price though. This is a sculpture that grinds coffee, not an exercise in building the volksgrinder.
@@tommymaddox6785 No you can’t. There is a handle on one side to keep it steady that you won’t be able to access. And the handle will turn the least comfortable way. For $1650 I don’t want any half assed solution.
@@nicbrownable that's fair. You could hold the gearbox body as well, but at the price premium it's definitely one of a few oversights in the design stage.
I like your comment and I'll use the term volksgrinder pretty soon. :-D I'm also leftie so this nitpick is important part of high-level design that should be part of such a pricy object.
Electric motors are over rated. Ride a bike where an electric motor bike is superfluous unless you are replacing a car, not replacing a bike. Gears do it. Even educated fleas do it.
@@shinybaldy Just playing with the comment til I rhymed with a Cole Porter old song lyric by accident and toyed with a riff. The idea was that something was easy to do, so "let's do it" and then there are lines that add who else does it "even educated fleas do it."
Absolutely adore Umeshiso and Umeko-such a great company, and Umeko’s a really wonderful person who clearly cares about customers and accessibility in the industry overall! Really excited to see the representation here!
I laughed at cost of 300$ manual grinders but having one i can say grind quality is there. 1600 for one that flops around the table is a bad joke. It should have come with sticky feet or better yet a nice clamp system for this kind of money, if they can't make it heavy enough.
The only reason it flops around the table is because of bad technique. It is a really heavy grinder. I would not want it heavier or a clamp system, because I push it in on the bench when I am done. Like James' opinion: it's a very good and nice grinder that feels premium, no matter what mind you're gonna make up to justify your $300 cost for your grinder.
I replaced the stock rubber feet on my HG-2 with 4 sorbothane pads. I didn't have a huge problem with the grinder scooting around my countertop but I just didn't like the movement. I don't think it really makes sense to make sorbothane pads a stock option as it's inconvenient to move the grinder once it's stuck to a countertop.. I rarely move my grinder so they work great for me; in fact I enjoy using the grinder far, far more now. It's damn near immovable while grinding, and it also provides a pleasant cushioning effect while the grinder is in use which also makes it marginally quieter and (I believe) lowers the pitch a bit.
Bonk alignment. Honestly I like that they released the HG-2 as it has some innovative things built into the grinder. I like how they are putting the user experience first and would expect nothing less from ex-Apple folks. This is a nice counterpoint from other grinder manufacturers in this high-end grinding space. I have the HG-1 and think that it is a great grinder and easy to use. I think if people want that Weber experience, just wait for people to offload their HG-1s after the Key starts shipping. Should be able to get those for half price on the used market with ton of life left in the burrs.
@@js-nk4sd there was a graphic that they had for key grinder or hg2 where they showed a wooden mallet that you could use to hit the shaft to help with alignment. This is because the long shaft would be prone to misalignment because of the strength of the materials and design is not enough to maintain perfect alignment
It's absurd, but this really does appeal to me. I currently use a more standard hand grinder, and there is something special about that direct relationship with the coffee as you grind it. And you're right, I would absolutely would want to use this with a lever machine. There's just something enchanting and artisanal about making espresso entirely by hand.
There's a UK company that makes a much cheaper countertop grinder that's also super cool. Can't remember the name. 1500usd is just silly, but it's a nice object for sure.
The leather had want to be burnished on the edge, and actually retained to the machine somehow (tiny magnets would be easy) at this price point. I'm concerned by the instability, too.
It's just a bad batch of leather. My mat doesn't have any whiter spots and it's completely straight and lays perfectly in place. I'm super pleased with mine and it looks good.
Light roasts require more effort some considerably more plus the fact that the height of the grinder relative to his height diminishes the downward pressure he's able to apply to the static handle.
The leather piece on the base looks awfully executed, especially considering the price. Some locator/retaining recessed magnets in the corner could have really helped it sit flat and stable.
Yes and no, I think it doesn't look great aesthetically but I also think it's supposed to feel like a modular piece easy to take out, clean, and put back in. But I can see why it's dividing opinions
@@lucioledizerot196 My suggestion is that the leather still sits on top of the base...I think the fact it sits proud and not recessed would still make it feel detachable... just flat not raised in the corners
It's interesting that now days we are paying more for to have tactile and manual experiences even though we have electronic/easier solutions that are cheaper and better. Manual transmissions in high end sports cars, mechanical watches instead of quartz, and hand grinders instead of electronic. Humans are interesting haha
@@duyman8198 well its interesting because it is backwards! Haha. It's like we've made all this progress and yet we still have some sort of yearning for the past. It's intrinsic for us. I think probably because it's hard to "connect" with something you can't fully visualize. Like the electrical internals of a computer are hard to feel an emotion towards even though it is amazing what is going on in them.
I'd say it's a lot of things, for some people preferring the more mechanical is about greater control. For some it may be concerns about repairability, if an electric motor burns out the manufacturer doesn't exist you are kind of SoL, but finding a replacement burr set will probably be less of a pain. Others it may just be that they don't want to rely on/use electricity. I could see this as a great option for some wealthy business type who has a cabin in the woods to decompress. But also, it is nice when you have a power outage for a few days and you can still get your coffee and espresso (happened to me earlier this year, and the fact that I have a hand grinder and french press meant my family still had coffee). And some of it may just be the because you just want to be the eccentric, and nothing says eccentric as someone who spends 1.5k on a hand grinder for coffee. (I say this as someone who is the mythical middle ground Hoffman said probably didn't exist, I find this product interesting for some of the reasons listed above but at that price might as well buy a Niche.)
I finished my review with the HG-2 about a month ago. I haven't published it yet, just due to a busy schedule. My impressions generally mirror @JamesHoffmann's for the most part. I'll add that the new Magic Tumbler does make for a cleaner work area, containing everything well. I found the added brush to be made much nicer quality wise than previous iterations. The brass is thick, the fitment smooth and tight, the overall quality of it quite high. I think folks with very (extreme end of the population) may want for more length to the crank arm handle. My hand just barely fit and the side of my palm extends just past the edge. Also, I'd prefer for the inner rim of the dosing ring that sits above the burrs to be rounded more, to ease pouring the beans in better. On a previous iteration of the HG-1, they made a ring that had this curve to it, it made for easier dosing into the grinder.
Any plans to do a 2021 recommended grinders at a couple different price points, for pourover vs espresso? Also lots of comments on 1zpresso, any plans to review them?
Totally get the appeal of electric grinders for time saving, but if I'm honest I do actually love the exercise aspect of manually grinding coffee, and it's actually part of why I started drinking it in the first place - I love the smell of it and even the sound of grinding coffee manually, but it really just feels like a good movement and part of the overall ritual of making coffee. I'm not sure I'd like a grinder that's fixed in place though - part of what I like about the hand grinder I have is that it's easy to swap which hand I'm turning with. On the other hand, I do really like the idea of having gears; are there any smaller grinders that have that feature?
I was one of the first backers of the KEY Grinder and I can’t wait until I get it. Would’ve also loved a comparison to the EG-1, which is even more expensive.
I work in IT, and I tend to automate everything. I'll shove an Arduino into devices at the drop of a hat. But there's something about coffee that just feels right to me being manual. This needs a lever machines, certainly, but I can see myself weighing beans on a manual scale, carefully placing 18.5gm of small weights to one side and adding beans until it levels. It just seems that would be ever so satisfying.
No. No way will I let it get to the point where I’m taking 3 beans of one size out and putting 2 of another size in. When I see that behaviour looming it’s time to be wild and grind 17.8g or 18.6g. I grind 18g, your 18.5g marks you as a barbarian. How can we even talk!
I like the idea of 'slow coffee' - a ritual/celebration/treat, rather than a physiological function that this grinder brings, and yes - a lever express machine would be perfect for it😍
Is it just me or is this massively geared towards right handed people? With the grind indicator where it is, isn't the whole design working on the proviso that it's going to be a right handed person operating it? I.e., if you were a lefty and wanted to grind with your strong hand (instinctively), you'd either be unable to use the steadying handle, have your arms crossed really awkwardly or have the machine facing such a way that you couldn't see the grind indicator, so you'd have to turn the machine around every time you wanted to adjust. Someone please let me know if I've got this wrong!
Naturally you’re correct, I think. A lot of devices are designed towards righties and lefties just need to adapt their right hand to them (DSLR cameras come to mind)
I would be fascinated to see if James could discern the difference between the grinders in a blind test. 8 shots, same beans, 4 from the Niche 4 from the Weber. And James has to try and divide them based on Taste. Or we could make it easier, 4 from the Niche and 4 from a flat burr grinder. Repeating this test several times would only add data as you would expect him to improve if there really is an ‘appreciable’ difference. I'd be interested to see if a Coffee expert with a pallet trained for years can actually discern the differences between grinders or if these differences only manifest on the tongue after the brain has a chance to attach various biases and associations. I do wonder sometimes if the flavour effect of grinder types is widely overstated. Please forgive my genuine curiosity is in it sounds like blasphemy. Edit: I would like to note my question is not one of skeptiscm that is any difference, only that maybe these differences might be so small that unless you are 'looking for them' they might be functionally impossible for a layman to detect without a prompt. Just because you can't see something in the distance until someone points it out doesn't mean it's not there, but it might be so hard to see that without the 'point' to give you a clue, it might as well be.
@@jameshoffmann I was actually slightly worried that saying this would be taboo so I'm somewhat relieved by your response. I love your content for many reasons but a big one of them is how you bridge the proffesional perspective with the layman. I feel an excercise like this like this could be a good way to get perspective on the extent to which certain differences are actually appreciable in day to day scenarios as with that information we can better assess the real value of features to different types of consumer.
You will almost certainly need to use more than 8 shots for statistical significance of the results, but it depends on how much of a true difference in taste there really is (greater difference = smaller acceptable sample size). A double blind experimental design is also a must. And if you have more than one barista pulling the shots, be sure to rotate them to avoid a barista “fixed effect”. As an aside, I won a bet at work by doing exactly this exercise with Diet Coke vs. Coke Zero (28 out of 30 correctly identified, it is a much easier task but taste fatigue got me towards the end). Not quite on the same level as what James is suggesting here. But it was a slow day & we were all stats nerds, so it was a lot of fun.
Do you think you would ever do an ultimate lever machine comparison? I know you've done lots of individual reviews, but it's hard to tell because you say very different things depending on the mindset with which you're looking at a product.
Honestly I do love to grind my coffee in the morning. For me it's part of the ritual as James mentioned, and the workout helps to wake me up as well. I'm sure I'd love to use the HG2, but I'll never splurge that much. Fingers crossed for the Patreon raffle!
I tried putting beans in the gear box of my honda civic, and found the grind size pretty inconsistent, so not sure I could recommend it as a grinder, though I obviously haven't tested other vehicles.
as you mentioned someone who would like the HG-2 would like a manual lever machine, any prospect of getting a review of the Flair 58 while pairing it with the HG-2??
A flair? You must be kidding. That's like using a 24k gold lighter for self rolled cigarettes instead for Cuban cigars. It'll suit much better to a Olympia Cremina with a black housing and wooden handles.
Another great video. I have been looking to get a Weber workshop grinder for a long time and I am very much looking forward to your review of the Key grinder. I would love to see a comparison between the HG-2, EG-1 and the Key grinder, I think a lot of people would appreciate a video like that. I love your videos and can`t wait for the next one.
I wonder how this would fit into a cafe... I imagine you'd need to tailor towards a more intimate, face-to-face experience with the customer. But like, from a burrset perspective, can you justify buying a couple of these instead of an EK43 in order to have no motor noise and make more time to talk with the customer?
I was wondering if there was any reference (book, scientific article, etc) that actually point to differences in taste or texture profiles between conical and flat burrs. This has been eating me up for weeks!
I actually enjoy hand grinding. I used to have a somewhat cheap ceramic burrs hand grinder that was unpleasant to use but then I upgraded to the 1zpresso jx-pro and honestly it's a joy to use. I really like grinding my coffee with it every morning
the leather really does look very silly. maybe paired with a more rustic or natural/retro looking grinder it would make sense but everything else about the Weber is so slick and futuristic looking with straight machined edges and matte black finish it makes the rough non-flat leather pad look very out of place. Not to mention it immediately makes the machine a no-go for any vegan who might otherwise be interested in buying it
Perhaps they could have gone full "camera grip" aesthetic and used thinner black leather with patterns... or stayed on the Highly Engineered side and used carbon fiber.
It's a bad batch of leather. My mat have a deep brown stable color without any whiter spots, and it's perfectly flat without any curves. It looks very good and it feels good to slide the tumbler (I don't have the magnetic one) and the mat gives a premium feel to the grinder. It's saddening that James got such a horrible leather piece because it sure doesn't look good. It really is a make it or break it scenario from looking misplaced to looking premium.
YoU lIkE fIlTeR from the niche? Heathen! Just kidding. Fantastic review, James. I'd not really seen one in action beyond your butler when you were truly a fancy man.
Ever given any consideration to reviewing the OE line of manual grinders? The apex is super interesting to me. Also the new Lido OG has a clunky bean loading mechanism but the adjustment system seems great for switching between espresso and filter
I've used OE grinders for ~ 5 years. I agree I had expected a review of one of their grinders from James would've happened by now. I love manually grinding my coffee. It appears why the review hasn't happened is that James doesn't.
I got the pharos 3 years ago so I can give you my honest opinion. Firstly, I will say that I do like it and think it was a great purchase. The coffee that comes out is wonderful. It’s also build like a tank and feels of high quality. There are definitely downsides though: 1. Difficult to grind. It takes a decent amount of strength to use this grinder. It is not a grinder for weak people and I definitely do not recommend it if you’re older or just weak. 2. The grind setting adjustment is frankly a joke. Don’t get me wrong, it works fantastically well and you have infinite adjustment settings. It also holds its grind setting extremely well. However, it’s a horrible design. You need an Allen key to adjust the grind setting. For such a pricey grinder, you just expect more. Also the allen key that it came with broke within the first month. 3. It’s big. Not really a con tbh since you should know this going in and if you buy it and find yourself with a grinder that’s too big, well that’s 100% your fault. 4. The rubber topper that prevents beans from jumping out of the hopper is ridiculous. It works, but like really? It also broke on me about a week ago. a 3 year run isn’t bad at all for a piece of rubber, but still, it’s a piece of rubber…. At the end of the day, it’s a very reliable, well build grinder that produces wonderful coffee. It could have been better designed, that’s all. I’m not planning on getting a new grinder any day soon and I am overall very happy with my purchase.
Now you’ve got me all curious about burr geometry, but I only have one conical burr grinder so I can’t really test my hypothesis. Is there a difference in “steepness” between large conical burrs and smaller conical burrs? Like, are the 83mm conical burrs of Weber’s HG series “flatter” than the burrs of a hand grinder or the Niche or the Sette? That could have some impact on why the HG-2 produces “hybrid” tasting shots. I’m definitely more inclined to believe it’s burr geometry than the de-clumper because after shaking the grounds bin into the portafilter and WDT there’s shouldn’t be a significant difference in puck quality. I’d love to see what other people think (or what you can find out O.o)
As a non-native speaker after several weeks of these videos: Inside coffee shop - sophisticated, eloquent connoisseur In the streets - caveman with a stroke The highbrow-monobrow-dilemma ...
2:58 "that is a big innovation"... gears have been used to create mechanical advantage since the 4th century BC, I'm not sure they qualify as "innovation" today :D
Whilst I'm sure it's exquisit to behold, it feels like a showpiece for someone with more money than actual use for such a machine (or are pretentious), or someone who is so deep into coffee as a hobby that they've lost all sense of value. Or they're the coffee equivalent of an audiophile. Again, I'm sure it's exquisite, but it feels like the Linea Mini: you buy it because you can.
I'm not going to buy this grinder because I can't. Just can't afford that much money for a grinder. If I *could*, I would buy it in a heartbeat. It's exactly what I want in a grinder. But it wouldn't be a show piece. In all my hobbies I do things in a "cave man" style. Exactly what James said. I *like* the physical connection. Good manual grinders have a terrible UX. The arm you are holding the grinder in is not designed to resist forces that present themselves while you are grinding. As far as I can tell, there are mounted grinders with nice big flywheel handles... but none of them have good burs. I'm hoping this becomes popular enough that somebody makes a lower cost, but well performing manual grinder with similar UX.
This is funny to me. I got the hg1 because I thought it was good "bang for buck." A Mazzer Robur (same burr set) costs about 25 - 30% more, so I thought, value! I absolutely love this grinder, but I am impressed with this new one. I like the magnetic tumbler, which eliminates the mess. Lost all sense of value? You might be right...🙍 But I thought I was being thrifty. Ps I am not rich. Coffee is a priority for my spending though
Mounting one of the burrs on a 5cm long shaft is a recipe for alignment disaster. I love the look and the way its made but my engineering heart does not approve.
Look at that smile when James shows off the spoons - so bashful and pleased. Also James, in the 3 years I’ve been watching this channel, today is the first time I’ve heard anything of grinder seasoning. I feel quite mislead after all those grinder comparisons and espresso tutorials and temperature checks and water filter experiments. When is the seasoning tutorial coming out eh?
I joined James' patreon to ask this specific question. I was looking at a cafelat robot and a kinu m47. Ideally I wanted something manual since I travel, but I didn't want to have any limitations to the standards I could reach. James had used both and said that I won't have any issues with the kinu. It's very fast to grind with and I love the quality.
I have the Big Dipper and Little Dipper in rose gold since I prepped for the first world cupping tasting. Big Dipper is great for skimming whilst Little Dipper has more heft and bowl depth.
