This is so true that this being a top comment is becoming cliché lol dude's a legend. In the us, especially, where all the coverage is pretty sparse and mostly behind streaming pay walls.
ODD MAN RUSH IS THE BEST HOCKEY RU-vidR! SHANNON IS JUST THE MOST PROLIFIC!... See what I did tharharhar?... I even managed to be completely unoriginal just like most yammering RU-vid/Twitter combatants, I almost literally just copy-pasted their names over "Lemieux" and "Gretzky" in the classic "Penguins fan" response to the "greatest player" debate... (In all seriousness, though, I love both channels. The only reason I'm not subscribed to this one is because my subscription page is already an unbearable mess mostly because of two channels I follow that post more-or-less daily, and another that posts on alternating days. Adding a channel that posts several times a day would make it impossible to sort through.)
@@WaddickLawnCare OK. A) That's incalculable to me. I've always kept my sub feed small, and except for those three I mentioned, they drop vids between once a month and once a week, including livestreams. B) How many of those do you actually watch in a day? C) Do you have the kind of job where you can get away with watching RU-vid while pretending to work? Because I don't. Not even close.
When I think of "choked", I think of a team where the pressure is clearly getting to them, and it's affecting how they would normally play. For example, Marner shooting the puck over the glass multiple times, causing many playoff penalties. He was very scared to get hit, despite having a lot of time to aim that clear. Or I think of a team that is just making lots of stupid mistakes at critical times in the game and collapsing after getting scored on rather than brushing it off and sticking to the gameplan. However, I don't think Matthews having low scoring is a choke because Danault really is that good at shutting down top players, and he did it all playoffs. In this case, I'd say the depth on Toronto was just not good enough to overcome this, and missing Tavares and having the lines all screwed up and having too many rookies without NHL experience playing on those lines was the real factor in them losing. I'd also put a lot blame on Keefe for not adjusting well.
@@Just_a_Man780 It's pretty easy to imagine how that would have changed things though - Toronto was getting their asses handed them in the face-off circle and they only needed 1 goal in games 5 or 6. He was a point per game player and one of the best at taking face-offs in the entire NHL. Even in this season, he is #7 in faceoff wins and has the 2nd best face-off percentage in the entire league. He was also on the top player play unit. On top of this, the bottom 3 lines all got changed around as a result, which meant an injured Foligno or Spezza or Kerfoot had to play 2nd line center, which basically mean the bottom 2 lines were screwed and unpracticed. Make no mistake, it IS Toronto's fault for not solving this depth problem, but it would have been less of an issue if Tavares was there. Notice that Toronto has 6 centers and 8 defensemen and better scoring depth this season. Dubas learned.
You are the future Hockey Guy. I don't agree with everything you say, but heck, your coverage is above and beyond the mainstream money pits that promote one narrative over another. Saying this, Go leaf Go!
I just got into hockey this season after years of being hesitant to do so because there was just so much I did not know. This channel has helped me so much get up to speed on everything and by end of season now, I really feel like I understand the pulse of the league. Thank you!!
I know a guy who got fired on his first day: underground miner (operator); got lost, twice, on his first shift and ignored every safety regulation you can think of trying to get himself back to the surface. Sometimes the boss can tell that you're not in the right place.
Now that one makes sense Phillip. Anyone in St Louis remembers though when we acquired Pronger for Shanahan the people were in revolt for years. Chris got pretty damn good I think we did okay there. What sucked was we offered them Joseph and Brind'amour. Hall of famers everywhere and idiot arb judge has to take shanny.
@@WaddickLawnCare definitely a bit greedy to go for Stevens then shanahan. You got to admit if Detroit did that we'd have been annoyed. The punishment for Stevens was way overboard though can you imagine getting five number one picks right now for anything?
@@daftelf yes if you offer sheet a player over certain value it’s 4 first round picks? What other punishment can they get for doing it so close together that they didn’t even have the picks they offered sheeted. Seems logical to just take more picks considering St. Louis didn’t want the picks anyway lol
Shannon, I swear, even when you have an opinion that I wanna disagree with so badly, by the end I think "Fuck he makes a great point". So hats off to ya for giving me an existential crisis. Love ya
Or were they a dynasty is another debate one could argue. I think you can have more then one dynasty at a time. Look at avs n Detroit n New Jersey in the late 90’s to early 2000’s
Rebuild. I have said this before but, I think a rebuild consists of more than just drafting good players and then have them elevated onto the parent team. It also is about trading for good players and [re]signing good players and signing top free agents. I think that last sentence is the downfall of many organizations (I'm talking about you, Sabres and Blue Jackets). Often it is not the fault of the GM/owners. It is about a franchise that is not seen by the top players as a good place to spend the best years out of a career.
Curious. I got into a discussion recently... allowed me to pick 6 franchises and you could have all the rest. I'll bet that there's a better than even chance that in 15 years one of my franchise selections will win the Cup. Bruins, Rangers, Florida, Chicago, Vegas and the Kings.
Scouts (and tbh a lot of fans, teams, commentators, etc) never talk about how a prospect defenseman controls his zone, steals the puck, makes chances, instead it's always here's his goals and assists and that's it.
As a Jackets fan, I remember how everyone laughed at Tampa for being swept in the first round in 2019, and literally, LITERALLY no comments whatsoever about the way the Jackets played. You don't sweep a series just by being lucky
Gretzky wouldn't be able to hang in this era, thats why we can't compare that stuff. a lot of the stars from back in the day would get dusted in this era, lets just be real for a second lol.
Best RU-vidr: THG definitely in my top five! Mostly because he's not afraid of a hockey conversation. Thanks again for another good video popping up exactly when we needed a mental break.
"Goals should be disallowed only if: (1) an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper's ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal." Ha... I was expecting more like 8 pages of rules...
Goaltender Interference Rules 1) You can't just be up there and just doin' an interference like that. 1a. Interference is when you 1b. Okay well listen. An interference is when you interfere the 1c. Let me start over 1c-a. The skater is not allowed to do a block to the, uh, goalie, that prohibits the goalie from doing, you know, just trying to save the puck. You can't do that. 1c-b. Once the skater is in the offensive zone, he can't be over here and say to the goalie, like, "I'm gonna get ya! I'm gonna block your view! You better watch your butt!" and then just be like he didn't even do that. 1c-b(1). Like, if you're about to make a goal and then don't leave the crease, you have to still leave the crease. You cannot not avoid the goaltender. Does that make any sense? 1c-b(2). You gotta be, skating motion out of the crease, and then, until you just leave it. 1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have your stick up here, like this, but then there's the interference you gotta think about. 1c-b(2)-b. Fairuza Interference hasn't been in any movies in forever. I hope she wasn't typecast as that racist lady in American History X. 1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, she was in The Waterboy too! That would be even worse. 1c-b(2)-b(ii). "get in mah bellah" -- Adam Water, "The Waterboy." Haha, classic... 1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. An interference is when the skater makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the goalie and the crease... 2) Do not do an interference please.
@@jeffreym.8957 would a screen count as interference according to that then? because with a players ‘positioning’ they are impairing the goalies ability to ‘defend his goal’ am i interpreting that wrong?
@@goavs7438 only if the goalie is in the crease, and so is the screening player. Wich is why if the skater is in the crease the goalie will bump the player to get the refs attention
The "when is a player a bust?" debate I think it also has something to do with expectations. You won't hear people discuss players being a bust for those drafted after the 3rd round for example.
Fantastic idea for a video Shannon! Really love to hear your takes on all of these common hockey talking points. Wishing you and yours health and happiness.
A lot of debates really would benefit from context, but most casual fans don't like that... "Why are you trying to avoid a concrete answer" without realizing you're giving them an answer, but that it changes depending on the context of what you're asking. Truth of it isn't that you're not answering, you're asking the asker to ask a better question and not be so vague(and sometimes, this is a deliberate defensive mechanism so they can reframe what they mean, but most of the time, it's proof of not enough thought being given in what they're trying to ask).
In terms of how to call a game, I agree that it SHOULD be by the book, but I also recognize there's some subjectivity. So long as it's consistent, I'm usually fine with it. The things I look for: if it's a call in the first period, it's a call in the last 5 minutes of the 3rd or OT, if it' a call in November, it's a call in the playoffs. Consistent and don't let situations change the definition.
Agreed with pretty much all except one point. You absolutely, 100%, no doubt in my mind compare players across eras. I HATE when people say "its a different era you cant compare". To me it shows a lack of intelligence or willingness to do the hard thinking that is involved. Sure comparing across eras is definitely harder, but its 100000% possible and I think isn't done enough.
But they aren’t even the same sport? You had goons in the 70-80’s who only suited up to protect players. And to say the skill level hasn’t changed is kind of immature seeing as Gretzky has said that!
Growing up I always had fun discussions about Hockey. It wasn't until the internet and coming into contact with "fan bases" that I started to see some of the horrible toxicity in discussions. It's off putting and honestly probably bad for the sport. That said. yes, Hull's skate was in the crease.
In regards to the Best Ever Anything, one of the funniest experiments ever done was trying to find out what the smallest thing that could create an Us vs Them reaction in people and the answer was "Literally Anything"
I was on the edge of my seat, thinking you wern't going to mention Jágr in goal scorer argument, i'm shure I'm not the only kid who remembers him as goliath.
Given how vague and subjective each of these questions is, I usually try to avoid them and if I'm forced to answer then I ask for a more specific question. 🤔
You deserve a lot of credit for not bumping teams up or down for injuries and such. It has been shown over and over again that such manual corrections are wildly inaccurate. Psychologist Paul E. Meehl coined "a broken leg rule" where only something really catastrophic and decisive (like a broken leg) should be taken into account.
On the whole “is this player a bust” I initially thought to wait after 5 years, I supposed 3 years is enough for some. I will be willing to stretch it “anywhere between 3-5 years, depending on the team’s situation, maybe.” Like, a rookie trying to make a team that’s already loaded for a cup run, maybe a shorter leash of 3 years. Or trade the player after that window to another team where the player will have more opportunity to show their talents. For a team rebuilding, give them 5 years. The young player on a rebuilding team will have more opportunities to prove they can be positively consistent to the team.
How the game should be called: the same at both ends. By the book, feel for it, pocket the whistle, whatever as long as you're making the same calls at both ends.
I have never heard the term "dynasty" be given any objective qualifiers such as your 3 cups in 5 years. It's simply a word that means long reign of power. Regardless of whether the Lightning win another cup, they're just unequivocally a dynasty.
If you do another one of these videos, do a topic on how awards are. Should there be a off/def defenseman award? Should there be a best overall player awards aside from the Hart(MVP)?
People just want to think that have inside knowledge on the best ever ice cleaners, its embarrassing. That being said, the one in Montreal is siiiiiiick
For all the questions where there are "right now" and "all time" answers, Nolan Ryan is perhaps the best example in all of sports. Yes, he set the single-season strikeout record, but he never won a Cy Young because he was never really close to being the best pitcher in his league, eclipsed by guys like Palmer and Valenzuela. But an argument could definitely be made that he's one of the best to ever play the game because he was so consistently good for so long.
Good vid as usual . Because you are wise (risk aversive ) you have not gone through the hell Alyssa Hope has recently gone through . Your content is great ! (I don't watch the previews/ reviews ) keep doing what makes you the most amount of money . I give your 4 cats and bunny rabbits a thumbs up ! Yvonne is great , and I think you made a smart choice including her ! GOOD HEALTH TO YOUR FAMILY .
As a Leafs fan I feel like any discussion about the Leafs with a fan of another team is just a waste of time because they think the Leafs will never accomplish anything til the end of time. I'm sure this applies to other teams as well, but it feels like everybody either loves or hates the Leafs these days
It’s largely due to the medias, making them unbearable to play against. Matthews matthews matthews marner marner nylander matthews matthews matthews marner marner nylander “random player doing well on the opposing team” matthews matthews matthews etc etc, that’s all you hear when your team plays them. Makes you wanna blow your brains out. And often times you hear about them even when you aren’t even playing them, like cmon
As a non-leafs fan, I think a lot of it has to do with a portion of your fan base, that just boggles my mind. Like when Shannon wore a Florida jersey in a news video becuse however you spell his name set a record for highest assists total ever and dude left a nasty comment becuse he didn't wear a Mathews jersey. But hopefully for your sake and especially Steve Dangle's sanity, I hope Toronto goes on a run this year.
'Has their Cup Window opened or closed' For me, it's the same as asking 'Can they make it to the Conference Finals?' More often than not, the East is stronger than the West or vice versa. Being able to make it to the third round is the least I expect a team with their wondow 'open' to do.
The one thing is with divisional playoff setups, you can have the two best teams meet in the first 2 rds( or 3) I like your thinking of conference final , but even then say, TB meets Fla in 2nd rd , with a strong contender in Tor, two solid teams maybe even three don't make it out of rd 2
In the current climate of online discussion, where everything is THE worst or THE best and people's view are either pitchblack or angelic white, hearing someone with a logical greyscale is always refreshing to me. THG, keep up the good work!
Blues cup window closed after Petro left. But opened this season after Kyrou’s strong performance last year and him following it up this year with an even better one, along with Thomas elevating his playmaking abilities
It’s always fun to pick your favorite / best scorers, hitters, d-men, goalies, etc. I’m enjoying the hype around the top goal scorers this season. Coming back to hockey after a long absence, it’s been a fun season.
Choke vs outplayed In the playoffs , each round becomes a game of inches, that extra puck battle win , that extra save, that timely goal I remember High powered Montreal playing North Stars and a hot goalie Melouche, (numerous injuries Mon) deny them a chance at 5 SC in a row Det dominates Anaheim but can't solve J.S. Giguere Van upsets Cgy in tough 7 gm series, goes to cup finals It's so tight in playoffs, both teams fighting hard
IGreat video! think a rebuild is over when a team becomes competitive year in and year out. They are a threat to make the playoffs every season, or do damage in the playoffs. For trading a 1st, I think its either when a team feels ready to go deep in the playoffs or if a stud player suddenly becomes available that no one expected.
As far as how a game is called, I don't think it matters as long as it's the same for both sides. I only complain when there's a soft call on one side, then a blatant missed call on the other
Topics worth debating: The merits of fighting, Post 04-05 lockout hockey vs pre lockout, whether 18 and 19 year old players should be allowed in the league, participation in olympic hockey, if "tanking" should be allowed or not, the toleration of diving, suspensions and all to do with them, and whether adding more and more teams to the NHL is good for the sport itself or not. You dont owe me anything but opining on any of these issues would be great.
...whether 18 and 19 year old players should be allowed?? What? They're legal adults at 18; heck, there's already been a couple 'exceptional status' players being allowed into the lower level pro leagues at 15/16, so maybe you should be asking if 16/17 year olds could ever play in the leauge? Minimum age will never, ever be higher than 18 I can guarantee you that. What a weird one that was.
@@countrystud1986 They may be adults on paper(in some places) but many of them are still growing physically as well as mentally. Yeah there are anomalies, but regardless I think there should be a rigorous process for a kid like that to get in. Im fine with it being relatively common, but it shouldnt necessarily be a normal every year thing, even for 1st overalls. The exceptional status("exception" being the key word) process in major junior seems like a good template, or maybe even a league-wide cap to keep too many teams from rushing kids. I realize there are alot of great 18 year old players but I believe many would be better if they waited a year before the big time. Go play in the euro mens league like Matthews did, as an example. I contend it would benefit their development.
The Capitals last 2 GM’s have always seemed to draft best available BUT the best player available then gets traded for Erat and a hot dog cart because GMGM think’s he can’t skate. 🤦🏼
You should draft the best player but you should also draft for a need if you aren't willing to trade for the pieces you lack for because that then becomes a commodity that will cost you more than you want to pay for. Drafting a solid 2nd line defenceman isn't a crime vs a guy who may never crack your lineup when your top 6 is setup there are guys like that every year including in the KHL an college hockey that don't cost draft capital.
Personally I think the best team wins the cup every year. Like that's the point of the playoffs to determine who is the best team that year. So, by definition, the team that wins the Cup IS the best team. That's a foundation I stand by.
The officiating just needs to be consistent. If it's a penalty in the first, it's a penalty late in the third/OT. Too often you see officials swallow their whistles because of time of the game. Just be consistent.
One debate you can use that gets really intense is "Gary Bettman is great/ bad for hockey" I think he has made the game better. Fan friendly rule changes. Salary cap. Getting more eyes on the sport expanding into markets etc
A players’ greatness has to be assessed using only his own era as the metric. Comparing eras can have some relevance but speculating how a dude would do in some other era is pointless.
I think the dynasty discussion kind of goes hand in hand with comparing players from different eras. In the salary cap era, I think back to back cup wins qualifies as a modern dynasty.
The debate about drafting the best player available often misses a crucial factor: Determining who the BPA is a lot easier with the 1st pick than the 71st. The later you go in the draft, the harder it is to determine the BPA.
