WEIRD Crank No-Start (Ford F150 Ecoboost) 

I'm impressed you decided to post this considering the outcome. It says a lot about your character. I'm always looking for the next video. Thanks man.

That is what I like about Ivan T, a real straight shooter. Ivan’s still the man!

That is so great that you guarantee your work even during road trips! The world needs more honest and thorough mechanics like you.

The early 3.5 ecoboost engines had one chain pulling all of the cams and stretching is an issue with these engines. The later models have 2 chains, one for each cylinder head. It's good to hear that the ecoboost engines are lasting that long especially 1st year engines.

You're a great example of standing by your professionalism. We all learned by this and I thank you!

What amazes me is your reading comprehension and your ability to take on things you haven’t seen before. Figure out how they are supposed to work and then devise a fix. I think with your diagnostic ability you could excel in absolutely any technical discipline. I can barely jumpstart a car but love watching you solve problems.

Hey, you can’t win them all! You are a stand up guy and this video shows that! I was hoping while I watched that you would check the timing. Those Ecoboost engines are very particular about their timing and I hear lots of problems when they’re not in time. Thanks for sharing this!

Appreciate your honesty. My brother tells the story of when they had an old Honda that bent a valve after a broken timing belt. They were so disgusted they just floored the engine. It didn’t blow up. In fact, it started idling smooth. I’m not sure how much Olympia was involved. Remember that beer brand? It’s an old story. But he says it’s “true”.

Its great when a professional is honest enough to show the bad side of the job and be a real man to do it.Great video and info.

Awesome logical diagnosis. The thing I take from your story is that without time and the correct equipment, you are sometimes going to make mistakes.

A rare occurrence for you Ivan but still, this is the sort of thing that actually makes a person a better diagnostician. Great job as usual and I'd bet that most of us would have called the high pressure pump too.

All of the signs pointed to fuel starvation. 🤔 I kept thinking air lock or the high pressure side needed bleeding, 999 times out of 1000 this would have been the problem. A timing chain jumping sprockets is very very rare and the last thing you would blame. Great stuff Ivan.👍👍👍

Good channel !!!!!! I enjoy hearing you talk out loud as you are diagnosing the problem. It helps "backyard mechanics" (like me) understand what is going on !!!!! Like !!!!!

Thanks for sharing. Based on the engine sound, I would have checked RC along with pulse sensor on the intake and exhaust. I made the comment right at the moment I heard the engine I did not know yet at that point the conclusion, those hpp are time to the timing activation of the cam lobe and electrical signal to the flow control valve .

Hey next time you suspect a timing issue use starting fluid (ether)! If it’s a fuel problem the engine will start and run for a short time if it’s a timing problem it won’t run. This is also a quick test to determine if the ignition system is functioning! It’s just an old-school way of quickly diagnosing an engine problem! A real time saver to help you pinpoint where you need to start looking!😸

wow, this was an amazing diagnosis video, I would have concluded also with a bad high pressure pump...I guess I learned something new tonight. Thank you for the video , Ivan!

I respect you for posting this video it shows the character of a great gentleman

I was surprised that you didn't check to see if timing was the issue, but seeing that you were mobile I can understand why you didn't. That's why I have the utmost respect for mobile mechanics. Time or lack there of, can be our worst enemy when trying to narrow down a quirky issue. Great vid, Ivan!

I'm originally from the Baltimore area and recognized some of the area from your video. I have lived in TX for many years and so it was good to see the old town. I thought as you were making this that to put too much into a 'road trip' can create a bug-a-boo in terms of quality due to the pressure created by such. Mobile sounds like a great idea until you consider that condition. It occurred to me that you may be cutting corners to make the timing work out, which as we saw here, sometimes doesn't work out well. And that is especially true when you encounter a really tricky one like this. All in all, you're experience coupled with your analytics make you a quality mechanic. Having spend years doing troubleshooting on control systems in another field, I can appreciate the way the system can and does trick a mechanic. I've had to, more than once, make some phone calls to get help. It happens. It can leave you feeling a bit inadequate until you realize all the good you do.

Very impressive! This was a case of more than one thing that was true at the same time. The obvious fuel pump issue and then the stretched chain which was hidden. Nice job!

Impressed by your honesty, this is what social media is lacking, a little bit of real life!!

Good job posting the mistakes as well as the successes! Very admirable! Especially when it sucks so much to have to eat the cost of the pump and all that time you put into it too.

Nothing abnormal man! Its the way it goes sometimes for one reason or the other. But the reibusement is the shining part of that video man !👋👍

That customer is a very lucky mechanic. Not many will ever put an engine back in time by just turning the crankshaft backwards.

I love the road trips!

This is 💯 why you’re one of the best on YT, not afraid to show your mistakes. We’re all only human 👏🏻👏🏻

The carbon buildup on the bottom of the high-pressure pump seems to hint at a lack of oil changes in this truck. Since it has number stickers on the fender, I assume this was a fleet truck, which explains why they kept driving it until it wouldn't go anymore. With proper maintenance, it could still be running like a top. Interestingly, I learned that new engine oils rated with API service specification SN Plus and SP were developed with these Ecoboost engines as the test units. Apparently, it was discovered that the older oils were contributing to abrasive wear of the timing chain rollers because the carbon bits in the oil were wearing them like sandpaper. The new oils are said to keep the abrasive bits under control.

A Time constraint is a very difficult issue to overcome. Thanks for bringing us along.

I’m impressed with your honesty and that you refunded the guy, your honesty will pay off in the end with customers trusting you 👍😀

That is why if I suspect any fuel issue, I always put a little curb cleaner in the intake to see if it will start then stalls. That saves me a lot of pain

That's amazing the timing was off That was my first guess because those engines the early ones were known for chain issues

Us techs have all been there, Ivan. Sometimes I'm happy I have finally retired at 72.

I worked on a car that had a very intermittent crank-no-start issue with no codes. Once I caught it, I noticed that there was not enough fuel pressure. In the end, when the issue got worse, I could pinpoint it to the exhaust camshaft phasor. Apparently incorrect timing can prevent these types of high pressure fuel pumps to build pressure. I wonder if the pulses that control the pump are synchronized to the position of the camshaft?

Always enjoy your trip videos! Not only that but you're a good egg to stand by your work!

Ivan! I feel a relative compression test would have aided you fast here in confirming your timing suspicions. Then after seeing an anomaly you would have more evidence pointing to get the in cylinder transducers out and syncing timing etc, that would of helped you out way better with that variable of calling the pump. I’ve been caught out with a couple of jobs like this before and on all crank no starts now, my first port of call in all these situations is disable ignition or fuel and do a relative compression test first before I do anything else to try and get faster direction regardless of the fuel OBD codes that are present as they can lead you down a rabbit hole. That pico 600+amp clamp round the battery is the life saver when trying to see the engine mechanical condition. Great vid mate and good see you showing total honesty and honouring your customer policy. Keep up the great work, These videos are excellent. Everyone can learn from these including the customers. All the best Wayne Scope3

I work at a recycling plant with metals like aluminum and stuff like that and there is a abundance of those high-pressure fuel pumps coming back from Warranties on not just Imports including Domestics they're not dependable. And failing in an alarming way!! 10 to 15 I see a week!! All the best from Surrey BC Canada

Definitely that means you are very honest man I’m a mechanic & not mechanic is perfect, but definitely you the man bro

Thank you for bringing us along on this diag, all the way through to resolution. The owner "should" be very grateful because without your skills I have to bet the parts cannon would have been unloaded. You are a stand up guy!

Very good job, you KNEW what needed to be done and ALMOST pulled the trigger!

So cool man, love the road trip! A true Mobile mechanic, with honesty and integrity! That guarantee is what it’s all about. We are here to help people not take their money! As always this great content is much appreciated, thanks Ivan!

shit happens mate. i had the feeling when the engine wanted to start and didn't i wasn't so sure it was the high pressure pump the problem. any way thanx for sharing i always watch your videos. i i do appreciate your honesty in this diagnosis you don't see much of that any more specially on video. keep up the good work!

It would be interesting to see if the truck starts on the old fuel pump. How in the thunder did the chain jump back to correct time!!!! Somebody did something. I don’t think that either Ivan or us got the full story.

Another great video Ivan. Not easy when you're at the job site. If it was in the shop, I'm sure you would have nailed it.

You're an honest and honourable man Ivan.

A couple of things jump out at me Ivan. I've had a couple of bad GDI pumps, not Fords, and the vehicle would usually run, idle only with low power, on just the low pressure pump. Secondly, not sure how you are equating the mechanical timing issue with the low pressure fault. The GDI pump is not timed and as long as the cam is actually spinning, it should be creating enough pressure if the pump is good. That pump may have indeed been failing.

Very cool and informative Ivan! Respect for posting the video anyways. This will of course just make your diag skills even stronger!

It happens to the best of us brother.i have lived by the old adage you learn something new every day and some of this shit is deep.your the man,one of the best I have followed.keep up the good work

I'd say you were correct on calling the high pressure fuel pump even if it wasn't totally at fault of the no start because of smelling fuel on the wrong side. If the just the timing chains were replaced, it would still be pumping fuel into the crankcase. We're back to fuel pumps failing and putting fuel into the oil! An old school issue, which is now a new school issue!

Wow I admire you more, what a character. I have that same problem working on as I speak. Same symptoms on a 2012 bmw M V8 twin turbo. I don't have a pressure transducer as yet and was convinced it was the pumps although having a gut feeling it's the timing ,I took a break and thought about it. It has two high pressure pumps would both go at the same time, they could but highly unlikely, I'm still in the process of proving it's the timing.

Very interesting.. I was thinking it could've been fuel contamination till I seen the bonus footage! Dude that is super sketchy about the chain being that loose.. Could that be a sign of a weak tensioner?

I would have charged extra to have someone watch over my shoulder. 😂 I don’t know how you do it, Ivan.

Timing codes only set when the engine is running, damn. Good lessons in this one Ivan. Thanks!

Timing chain problems with a lot of miles. Probably why it went to salvage/auction. You're an honest person.

Ivan, thanks for a great video ...as always. On the subject of the GDI HP pump, the fuel quantity valve. I was looking into how the fuel quantity valve work on my engine too, Mercedes M276 3.0 Turbo. Bosch HP pump. So I want to share with you what I learn on this : This HP pump TDC or pumping event is equal to the number of fuel lobe/s of the camshaft. Some camshaft has 1, 2 , 3 or 4 fuel lobes. My engine uses 4 fuel lobes and the cam is on its Bank1. My HP pump is a normally open version for the fuel quantity valve, that means if the fuel quantity valve is not energized, pressure can not build up and it will allow the 5 BAR fuel pressure from the tank's LP fuel pump and limp home mode is using this method. Normally open type is safer too. The piston or plunger on this kind of single piston HP pump, make pressure by activation (closing) the fuel quantity valve during the upstroke of the piston. The downstroke of the piston is to let fuel into the "pumping chamber", no need to energize the fuel quantity valve as it is a normally open version. So for my 4 fuel lobes camshaft, 1 camshaft revolution there will be 4 pumping action BDC to TDC of the piston and is 45 degrees and TDC to BDC is another 45 degrees. 4 fuel lobes is 360/4 = 90 degrees. In the each 90 degrees, only 45 degrees make higher pressure, more than 45 degrees is to reduce* pressure by limiting fuel entry or quantity into chamber ( *if activated beyond 45 degrees) So this kind of HP pump, we can not simply energize 100% of the time its fuel quantity valve hoping it will deliver maximum quantity/pressure. The part I am still "blind" is, I do not know the exact location of each 4 of the TDC in respect to the camshaft 360 degrees. I have to physically inspect the cam itself to learn of these TDC... too much work, no thanks. Initially I thought using a picoscope I can find these 4 TDCs, I can yes but not with 5 degrees accuracy, perhaps only 15-20 degrees. You see the ECM activation using PWM for the fuel quantity valve is variable depending on engine RPM and load. At idle I can see 33 degrees worth of fuel quantity activation per TDC, so there are 4 of this PWM pulses sent by the ECM. I would assume the start PWM signal would be at TDC dead on, well it does not seems that way by the time I scope more and while revving up the engine. LOL. According to Audi tech at OPUS IVS channel, fuel quantity valve failure or not being "accurate" is also a common problem, aside from worn out/broken piston. I think not being accurate means the activation of the magnetic coil vs the actual reaction-to-execution time of the mechanical portion responding to the PWM signal is way off the target.

People on the east coast are lucky to have you available for diagnostics.

You win some you loose some Ivan. We all human beings. Appreciate the video.

Thanks for the video and the update. I was thinking that you do not want to directly connect the HP pump to 12 volts, it would draw about 40 amps. I also thought that maybe an injector failed open and caused the pressure to drop. It takes a big man to admit he doesn't know something!

Love the honesty man. Being in the trade I'm sure u know burn to learn

I had one about 7 months ago and went through pretty much what you did , was on the fuel pressure rabbit hole but i pulled out the map sensor and had an assistant crank it and i was getting pressure back up into the intake. The timing chains on these things are garbage, should be replaced automatically at mileage intervals like a timing belt. I have 80 ford products i take care of and have 3 waiting for timing chains.

Almost no one in this industry has and stand's by such a guarantee. My pops used to say that sometimes its better to be paid in experience .

I applaud you for owning up to a misdiagnosis. And I know first hand how bad I 695 is around Baltimore. It's not pleasant, especially in a big truck.

It's always better to put check mark on what comes to your mind, as i see you suspect the issue but you leave because you believe in the DTC. But it's always a lesson, and that's refund is the fee for that lesson Great job as usual man Waiting for the next one 💪

Hey Ivan, I loved this one. It just proves you are human and not some kind of diagnostic android from outer space who makes the correct call every time. It also makes me feel a little easier about all my bad calls :-)

The primary timing chain is probably stretched out more than a couple links like they do as early as 100k miles so the timing of the fuel pump isn't in step with the position of the rotating assembly

Great video Ivan, We all make the wrong call once in a while especially being away from home and having time against us. As always your honesty shows the type of person you are, Keep up the good videos I look forward to the next one 😀

Awesome video! Like others have said you didn’t need to post it up with an unfortunate misdiagnoses at first. You still have this logical way to talk yourself and others through what you are doing and how. Thank you for your service Ivan! One thing though did the bloke buy a lotto ticket after winding the engine backwards making it skip teeth then have the balls to try and start it after said event 😮 1 in a million chance hahaha 😂

The ford V6 are known for broken cam phasers, I saw one where it was broken in the back and the front look ok!

So the bear nipped You a bit and You learned and made it right. It’s all part of the process but unlike most You took care of the situation. Your a good Man Ivan!

Thanks for the video. Going to do my first eco-boost diagnosis. He has a cam sensor code. Not sure of the mileage yet. He replaced all cam sensors and it ran fine for a couple days, now dead again. Wish me luck.

Its been my experience that most GDI engines can start and run (not well) on low side supply pressure. Also depending on design NO or NC solenoid if you unplug it, it will force full pressure. If the pressure gets to high there is a safety blow off valve that sounds like a high pitch squeel

YOU ARE SO HONEST

Wow!!!...serendipity!!..awesome video Ivan 👍😎

My logic is. That cam was turning just couple time making the pump build pressure for a short time till the injectors fire and bleed off the remaining pressure. I can recall from the last high pressure pump I called bad. But by design this high pressure pumps with solenoid unplug it should pump whatever max pressure it can all time. The solenoid is just to maintain desire pressure by bleeding some of high pressure back to the feeding line.

Nice! You did call the timing issue during the diagnosis. But you're kicking yourself in the head for not doing the timing checks. I can understand that due to time and other jobs in road trips. I've had that happen to me. Nature of the job i guess! But you did good though. 👍 great video and update!

i learn from the two best ivan and eric o you guys are amazing i am learning to be a mechanic

First class video , and loved the follow up , very impressed , every day is a school day for Me!

good man for giving him the refund and owning up to a mistake! youd be surprise how many people make up stories and lies about how something they cleared fucked up and try to make it not their fault. we all make mistakes and honestly i think any of us would of called that HPFP with 220k on it!

Can’t win em all, but honesty is the best policy… Doubt anyone will question your skills, but admitting and correcting mistakes with no hesitation is the mark of true master. A new OEM pump was probably not a total waste either, so a little time is all that’s lost here, lessons learned more than cover that, so I’d call it a tough win… We’ve all had a machine kick our butt before, a lot of us have experienced it many times, and if not then I’d say you know nothing at all…

I'm sure you would have figured it out if you had sufficient time, Ivan. You solved much more sophisticated issues than this one.

Nice Job And Sometimes Goes Like That Refound And Life Continue

Takes a real man to admit being wrong. Not a mistake if you learn from it just a learning lesson

condemning a made in Japan fuel pump was your first mistake

Another great case study, Ivan!! You don’t win them all, but the original diagnosis was an educated hypothesis based on a failure prone part with a large amount of miles and suspect scope data. I know, I would have made the same call. Thanks for the follow up!

high pressure fuel pump leaking fuel into oil, so needed to change anyway. Had wondered if timing was off.

I am having similar issue with my Q7 glad i found your video here...I have a fuel rail pressure sensor (G247) that needs checking as i think its intermittent due to the battery being deficiently low possibly because the vehicle begun shutting down lot of components as well modules...I have iCarsoft OBDII reader as well Ross-Tech software

Saw one on a Mercedes where the crank pulley/dampener spun on the rubber causing timing to be out 40° after new timing chains were installed and marks aligned it was a no start

Remember, Ivan! No right turns on red, in any of the five boroughs of NYC! Can't make that mistake again!

So I'm like 12 minutes in and watching the fuel pressures it looks like it's a fueling issue still. The way the pressure goes up and then fades really fast. Like it's getting the pressure it needs but it can't maintain the pressure due to it not being able to provide enough flow. Could be very misleading. Can't wait to see what it really is. Edit. I was incorrect as well. Should have acknowledged that when the engine was cranking it sounded a bit off. Especially since a friend's car did basically the same thing last year. Sometimes it would start when cold or warm and sometimes it wouldn't. I went by to check it out and it was doing the exact same sound when cranking. And then after trying multiple times it decided to start up and run beautifully except for one noise. I could hear the timing chain slapping back and forth. Told them it would need a timing chain kit because the guides were probably destroyed as well as the chain being stretched. I declined doing the work.

Your a honest man brother we more like you cheers

I wouldn't beat yourself up over it to much Ivan. So, the high pressure fuel pump was not the cause of why the engine wouldn't start. But, I am more than certain that it would have had fueling issues of some sort, if it was able to run. Ford trucks with over 200k on the clock are bound to have a multitude of wear issues. Timing chains and gears are a big one. But that was crazy how the owner of the truck rotated the crank backwards and the timing chain just popped back in to time. Talk about lucky. lol

my analysis is that that original fault was indeed the high pressure pump.however, bad timing occurred because of prolonged attempts to start the vehicle . Thank you buddy

Don’t be discouraged brother! Sometimes It’s the amount of effort applied to each one of these diagnostic puzzles that we underestimate…. It takes a toll on your mind, Rest up! Clear your head and then get back in the game with a fresh start!!! (I’m being hypocritical Because I go until I fall over!😹)

Learned a lot, great Job Ivan !!

Your insight is amazing, I would have never thought timing. But I do not work on Fords. I just try to keep my own older junk running. So it turns out the crank jumped out of time, time for the new owner to address that issue. Personally, I am not a fan of VVT systems, repairs can get expensive real fast.

many have learned a lesson here with you Ivan fallow your intuitions. chock it up to road lag ,

What a great guy to refund his money and learn from this experience. Very interesting to me how you diagnose these things. Wish I had your skills.

sometimes we over think this things,,,i always remember check you powers first specially teh grounds,,,i had one f150 going crazy replacing parts right and left,,ended up being a bad dirty ground,,,making the electronic modules to get ground somehow,,making all this crazy things,,,,2010 f150 ground under neath truck below passenger door hooks from frame to chassis,,,,also clean the fuses,,they get supper corroded,,,

The journey won't have helped. Traffic Frazzles my brain now. I wish I lived somewhere peaceful, your house looks perfect for those of us that like to think 😁

The guy accidentally fixes his car but f'ing with the timing chain? Lol. That's how I usually fix things. Thanks for posting that update. You were right about it being a timing issue though. Sorry you had to go through all of that on an auction car.

Haven't finished watching the video but it seems these direct injection systems work very similarly to their older brothers in diesel engines.. i wonder if the pressure buildup and sudden drop is due to air sneaking in the lines