Welcome to our live show! 

To those who are not Americans, my response to Dr. Chapp may seem arrogant or dismissive, however, to be an American today necessarily means that we are subject to the will of others due to the secular revolution. In this respect, I am speaking of the will as one of the powers of the soul; the soul has intellect and will. Now Dr. Chapp may say that Vatican II convened to move us beyond the constraints of Scholastic but to understand the soul as revealed through Scholasticism is crucial to make sense of the cultural revolution which has now spread beyond the confines of America. We are taught by the Scholastics that the intellect perceives reality- what is and its goal is truth; the wil identifies the good and its goal is the highest good which is God. However, can we be drawn by the will to things which are not good? Most definitely- for example, I want just one more piece of cake- it is sooo good! And yes, it is good to the taste and satisfying to the body. However, the intellect reminds us that we are overweight and developing Type II diabetes and as such, this is nt actually good for us. The Scholastics teach that the will must always be subject to the intellect which perceives reality. Without a will subordinated to the intellect, we become slaves to whatever the will perceives as a good in this moment. In America, more than a generation ago, the dominating force of the will became the standard by which many lived their lives giving rise to men who now claim to women, children claiming to be cats, etc... if I will it, it is so! The destructive force of the individual will is plainly evident in our culture, but the Faith has been the greatest victim of this error. By the time I was a teenager, the erosion of truth by the force of will began to empty the pews. It was not Vatican II that caused the damage, but those claiming the "spirit of Vatican II" who, ruled by their will abandoned the intellectual pursuit f truth. Thus, growing up in America has created tension between man's will and truth. Most today try to navigate these stormy waters by applying relativism: you have your truth, I have mine so as to somehow close the gap and calm the stormy waters. However, there can never be peace without truth and while I can understand Dr. Chapp's desire to calm the stormy waters enveloping this Pontificate, my response would still be, there can be no peace without truth! The Scriptures, Vatican II documents, traditions of the Church and the previous pontficates have provided our intellect with the Truth and it cannot be denied that Pope has broken with all. Trying to explain it or mollify our uneasiness with this Pontificate will not appease the problem, only the Truth can bring peace to our souls.

"The purpose of Vatican 2 is to purify modernity not to succumb to it." - Henri de Lubac

Erudite, essential, encouraging and hopeful discussion. Good work!

Hinduism and Islam have nothing to do with Christianity. Why can't we just say that? People of those faiths have no problem saying that..

It was said that orthodoxy does not guarantee orthopraxy, but let that lead us to the error of elevating praxy over truth which seems to be what is currently happening in Rome. The entire stream was thought-provoking. Thank you Catholic Unscripted (and Larry Chapp).

I grew up in the 1970’s. I met Jesus in Vatican II Catholic Canada. Nothing stops God reaching us.

Fr. Jerzy Popiełuszko preached the Faith boldly and was killed for it. His life was not focused on this world.

i agree with you Larry those 3 mistakes of JP2. but JP2 was focused; this pope is creating a huge mess.

“It’s not Latin that will save the world, it’s holiness.”Please Catholics, understand the need for the Council. It’s attempts to connect the faith to the culture was largely high jacked by certain dark characters in the implementation post council. The need was and is real. Benedict attempted a reform of the reform. It will happen.

Leitmotif....pronounced lite-moteef. Hurrah for Larry Chapp. Hurrah for Mark.

i agree that the church before the council was rotting within.

VII is a symptom, not the disease. Symptoms must be addressed though, as the disease needs rooting out. The reason for Latin is the fix: holiness, and not banality.

"We're not going to call him a heretic, but if we DID call him a heretic, what kind of heretic would he be?" LOLOLOL

Fabulous discussion. Let's do this again and include Dr. Peter Kwasniewski in the group. He's a very articulate trad Catholic and could add some more spice to the conversation.

Scott Hahn has produced a new Bible for catholics, where the footnotes link old to new testament andvavoid the critical doubts which imbue the Jerusalem bible.

The line is we need our Catholic Church ⛪️ back!!! We need a Pope who will follow Catholic teachings

Just as we have popespainers we have Vatican2splainers. Archbishop Lefbvre said the documents that all have different levels of authority and the bishops had no mandate to define doctrine...deliberately includes ambiguous phrases that were put there to be exploited and pushed way beyond any limit in the implementation of the Council AFTER the bishops went home. Obedience and submission was instilled in Catholics and it was and is exploited by the heterodox in authority. I was born in 1961 and experienced the car crash as a passenger driven by the Papacy, bishops and clergy particularly those heterodox who pushed the accelerator. The anger, shock, dismay and total distrust of being trapped in a Church doing this is traumatic.

I missed the live coverage, but I really enjoyed listening to four wonderful people as I watched later in the evening.

The Church on the eve of Vatican II had many problems, but the solution was not the nonsense that we got after the Council. What is desperately needed is a re-enchantment and a reengagement with the fullness of the liturgy.

The prayer for universal salvation DOES violate Christ's message, but our hearts compel us to pray it anyway. We must, as the bride, choose to refuse the groom until He lets our whole family come to the wedding. Let His Mother reveal His answer to us.

Assisi is a rejection of the First Commandment

I enjoyed that. Thankyou.

JPII: I loved him.

On this notion of the Fatima prayer supposedly confirming universalism. We can turn it around on those who lean towards Universalism by asking, “Why pray for the sinners of the world if it's a guarantee?” On that note - If it's a given that the Pope will never-failingly uphold the Catholic faith, why do we pray that he does in the litany used at Episcopal Consecration?

Yes Joseph Ratzinger noticed AFTER WW2 the Church in Germany needed reevangelisation and religious knowledge was low. Think about it. The WW1 defeat followed by the fight between Marxist Socialists and National Socialists with their ideologies as well as the submission of Christians during WW2 and the indoctrination of Germany which was divided after its WW2 defeat did produce disillusion and real dechristianisation in Germany and Europe. This was not the situation in the English speaking world. The Church worldwide was not like Germany. The German anti Rome attitudes and new theology did dominate too much at Vatican 2.

Larry; i have come to that conclusion of thought as you describe; wanting discreetly to change fundamental principles and belief like women ordination and gay pride marriage.. keep the kettle burning with like minded embers.

you are on to something Katherine; the very fact lay people cannot ask the hard questions and get some answers with concerns. when i email a concern to clergy i rarely get an answer.

As someone said to me in the pub....the Pope is "a prostate" which made me choke...lol

Neither traditionalism or modernism in itself can lead to holiness but traditionalism allows the growth of holiness by the quietness of its liturgy whereas modernism drowns out holiness by its noise, confusion and division.

Anyone may attend the Ordinariate Mass! Come one, come all! I am a former Anglican hermit, now happily a Catholic Diocesan Hermit. Though a member of the Ordinariate and I was professed in the Archdiocese of Indianapolis.

I think Francis plans to finish the job begun by Martin Luther.

Whats the difference between Pope Francis's Jungianism as Gavin describes, and Jordan Peterson's Jungianism? Peterson often critises Pope Francis for being too woke however the way he answers the "belief" question is also worth scrutiny. Furthermore Gavin mentioned said he used to part of that worldview and it would be nice if he gave a deep dive into how he moved out of that - if he hasnt already.

I attend a. Ordinariate Mass on weds 40 miles away and agree wish it was the Mass of P.Paul VI

The basic problem is the demise in preaching and teaching the authentic Gospel calling for reform and repentance. The attempt to water down the Gospel and demiraculize Jesus' miracles, the focus on the congregation rather than on worshipping in the Mass, the elimination of pietistic practices, the haemorrhaging of religious from the schools, the watering down of seminary training all contributed to the demise of Jesus' Church. The Council was used as an excuse for the protestantizing the Catholic Church justifying it by attributing it to the "spirit" of the Council when it fact it was the spirit of so-called liturgists trying to render the divine liturgy purely human with the community worshiping itself rather than God..

An attractive invitation - sadly, there isn’t an Ordinariate Parish anywhere within fifty miles of where I live.

Resourcement was one of the movements that along with aggiornamento helped destroy the Church as few other movements.

Beautiful plants, aren't they

He said he wanted a "different church" so perhaps his agenda is to make the Church different, an endorser of the world rather than the means through which Jesus calls the world to reform, repent and believe in the Gospel.

Regarding the comments made about Pope John Paul II and not dealing with paedophiles within the Church, is there any ascertainable and objective data that supports this? At the time, and as a lifelong Catholic, I recall the issue wasn't even discussed within local parishes, so I wonder how much information moved up the line of authority when it was stemmed at the source. Also, don't forget the role of the organisation Aid to the Church in Need (ACN), when it came to combating communism in Poland. They provided funds to build the church in Nowa Huta which was to be a role model communist town, devoid of all religion, especially Catholicism.

1st - Book called Index of leading Catholic indicators, which shows devastation of VII. Other religions were growing. 2nd - It clearly wasn’t the documents. Pre-Internet where would someone find the documents in the 60s & 70s? It was the implementation, esp. the New Mass.

Larry made a lot of sense on some controversial issues.

Dr. Larry is a great guest thanks.

i remember that!!!! yes!! in Poland!!!

The Church always had crises. The mass was never meant to be entertainment so saying the clergymen complained that parishioners were bored is like saying, going to granny who is deaf and half comatose while i could be at home with my lego, means we must make granny more entertaining. We go to worship God!!! Secondly, the pychological traumatic impact on the post ww2 attendees at v2 doesnt vitiate but undermines further the benefit of v2. One needs to go back to the roots of modernism and the contemporary enlightenment obsession on materialism which trinkled into the burgeoning middle class, as a monumental effect. Moreover, the communist infiltration, the sexual and student revolutuons, the distortion of human rights by globalists all played a role. Stat cryx dom volvitur orbis, was rejected and so went the world went the Church.

When they talk about liberalism are they just talking about liturgical liberalism, because holiness isn't morally liberal.

With all due respect wasn't nouvelle theologie condemned largely and rather effectively by Fr. LaGrange and I believe rightly so, after all did not one of its chief theologians give us the wild idea of transfinalization?

the hierarchy including the pope know nothing of the periphery i belong too!!!

We absolutely need to return to the sources! We can't have dry neo scholastic pharisaism. But this has nothing to do with abandoning the true faith. The bottom line must be faithfulness to Our Lord.

Thanks!

i usually tell people to not listen or follow the pope as he has gone off his rocker!!

if there is no intrinsic evil in the heart and soul of man why did Jesus heal people from intrinsic evil spirits inhabited within the person???

I have concluded Bergolio has in his dotage begun to confuse his id for Christ's and believes his will is the divine will. In other words he has subjugated the Divine Will to his will.

From Our Lord's 9/17/2024 message to Gisella: “Looking at you, My children, at My feet, in prayer and with faith of heart, consoles My Heart which is ravaged by sin. My brothers and sisters, now the masks have fallen, as foretold. Evil, now, has no more secrets. It is no longer hiding! (referring to the recent announcement of all religions lead to God by the false pope). This world of sin will soon end! The Era of true Peace will come."

that is exactly why we must pray for Francis

I wonder if this particular dialogue will end.up turning some viewers away from catholic unscripted.

Mr Chapp is notoriously modern and a fan boy for Vatican II.

there is one thing i notice with this pope he seems to think there is no punishment and hell.

is the fall from grace not an intrinsic evil???

IM A HEAVY A BIG DEAL ON THE EARTH AND IN HEAVEN.

How Esua family is out and on a mission to the one who matters to God. Good luck bc Job was able to pray to God to remove the curse placed on his friends and family and thats not on the table for Esua's offspring

Does Dr. Chapp agree with Pope Benedict XVI that after Vatican II the liturgy was banalized? Can the Mass be revised in a way to restore the majesty and sanctity of it, without going all the way to the Latin Mass?

The conclave who elected him was the big problem. Which Cardinals voted for Him?? And why ?? Who promoted him?? He was a controversial Cardinal in Argentina. Before He was elected it was known that he actually told the Anglican Bishop Palmer not to convert to Catholicism. so this was know at the time. The true marks are Humble, Holy Prayfull that should be the goal of all of us. And it's obviously not what Pope Francis is.

I want Pope John back!!!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

I’m confused about Larry going to Anglican mass. Someone please explain.

This middle ground, "actually the council was awesome", position is pointless. It will never work. It's self-evident to everyone with eyes to see. These professional theologians whose entire careers depend on advocating for it will never give it up, though.

God does not will religious diversity. Salvation comes from the Jews. God revealed himself to Abraham and formed his chosen people Israel. Jesus Christ is the messiah of the Jews. Christianity is the only society whose head and founder is God in Jesus Christ. God spoke and taught directly founding the Church. Other religions are philosophical and cult creations of humans. God tolerates but does not in his love will it.

As a Jehovah's Witness I almost feel bad for catholics

I love these discussions Catholic Unsrcipted are doing, just have one request, can you give Gavin a little more air time please😊❤

Do what thou wilt is the whole of the law.

Sorry Dr, Chapp, try as you might, your attempt in proposing apologia for this Pontificate fails; you allude to the circumstances of this Pope's national origin, influence of his education, etc... to explain his pronouncements and false teachings- circumstances cannot absolve error.

I’m 69 years old and JP ll was a major force in the root of the mess following the Council ! He threw the doors and windows open wide!!

Very encouraging duscussion

While the Pope was preaching to the youth that all religions are on parr and with the same path to God ,the Sunday Gospel was the question Christ spoke to the disciples "Who do people say I am?" and "Who do you say I am?". Our path, is the Way, Truth and Life and we failed to hear His name and response. from the papal preaching tour.

Excellent podcast, I learned quite a bit. Thank you so much.

Why was sacrosanct Concilium not implemented?

I hope i marry a bikini model. Score the winning goal in the world cup final and win the lottery on the same day. Just because i hope to do so doesnt mean there's a possibility. It is just noise.

CC?

This discussion was cut short, it should have been longer

Don’t forget that Francis doesn’t know the U.S. or really even English. Thus he cannot grasp the world in which he lives.

Did he say Catholics have lesbian bishops ? is that True ? funny ??? i don't get it... a joke ? 🤔

More please.

hmmm... Its strange, I want to like rassourcement theology and Larry Chapp (and Bishop Barron), but I find myself not really agreeing with or wanting to shy away from all of that. It just doesn't seem to have the clarity of neo scholasticism.

If latin will not save the world, neither will Novus Ordo. To the contrary, Novus Ordo is even less likely to do so.

Welcome to our live show! - Catholic Unscripted 1. Why, 'tis jolly good to see three Brits and a Yankee chap chat on the telly. 2. Dr. Chapp at 11:28-57: "... so now, really to me, the cherry on the ice cream, the final point is his statements in ... well, first off his signing of the Abu Dhabi declaration that God willis the pluralism of religions. They walked it back a little bit but not much, then to the kids in Singapore saying that, you know, he didn't say all religions are equal pathways to God, but he didn't bring up Christ. He didn't preach the love of Christ and further more he compared religions to languages." Response: A. The Abu Dhabi declaration, i.e., the Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together of February 4, 2019, was an exercise in Vatican statecraft providing cover for peacemaking in the Middle East between the United Arab Emirates and Israel, i.e. between Arabs and Jews. B. This declaration laid the groundwork for the groundbreaking signing of the Abraham Accords the following year on September 15, 2020, mediated by the United States, that established two bi-lateral agreements between (A) the United Arab Emirates and Israel and (B) Bahrain and Israel. These accords recognized Israel's sovereignty and established full diplomatic relations. The present trouble in the Middle East initiated by Iran through its proxies on October 7, 2023 was intended to disrupt any further peacemaking between Arabs and Jews, particularly between Saudi Arabia and Israel. C. The link below provides the text of Pope Francis' Mass homily at the Singapore Sports Hub National Stadium on Thursday, 12 September 2024 that contains the following paragraph: "Faith, then, confirms and enlightens us even more deeply regarding this conviction, because it tells us that at the root of our capacity to love and be loved is God himself, who with a Father’s heart has willed and desired to bring us into existence in an utterly gratuitous way (cf.1 Cor 8:6) and who in an equally gratuitous way has redeemed us and freed us from sin and death, through the death and resurrection of his only Son. IT IS IN JESUS THAT ALL THAT WE ARE AND CAN BECOME HAVE THEIR ORIGIN AND FULFILLMENT." vatican va /content/francesco/en/homilies/2024/documents/20240912-singapore-messa.pdf D. It was the address of Pope Francis the following day on Friday, 13 September 2024 at the Interreligious Meeting with Young People, that caused such consternation around the world. However, as Dr. Chapp pointed out, the pope's off-the-cuff remarks can be placed in the context of the Second Vatican Council documents, particularly the dogmatic constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium, solemnly promulgated by Pope Paul VI on November 21, 1964, Chapter II - On the People of God, No. 16: No. 16 - Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God. (Mk. 1:15; cf. Mt. 4:17) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh. (Cf. Rom. 9:4-5) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues. (Cf. Rom. 1 l:28-2) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things, (Cf. Acts 17:25-28) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved. (Cf. 1 Tim. 2:4) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience. (Mk. 4:14) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel. (Lk. 12:32) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator. (Cf Rom. 1:21, 25) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, "Preach the Gospel to every creature", (Gospel of Mark: 16:15, KJV) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention. Vatican VA /archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html E. And if the King James Bible was good enough for St. Mark ...

One would expect a theologian to know the difference between material heresy and the category formal heretic. If some one pertinaciously holds views contrary to dogma and doctrine required for assent then material heresy is committed. Scienter is needed for the establishment of formal heretic. One doesn't have to fall into the category of judgment to suggest material heresy has been committed.

GUYS IM WAISTING MY TIME HERE BC I CANT NOWHERE PPL LIKE YOU. GOD DOING A BEAUTIFUL THING MAKING THE FEAR OF GOD GAMED BC OF ME THE GOAL OF ALL GOALS AND NOW GOD CALLS ME A LORD WHO POSITIVE AND POWERFUL . YOUR WELCOME WORLD THOSE WHO ARE LEFT OF COURSE. SMALL KINGDOM AT FIRST.

Next time to his Chapp returns will be last time for me as I will check out from catholic unscripted.

I work in housing and when changes are to made the tenants are given a voice and appeal against the changes and they are listened to and ignored and changes are made and we see this in councils and governments etc when changes are hinted at they happen and we see the same in the church whatever is hinted at will happen All the changes since Vatican 2 has been indoctrinated into the church and laity and accepted Marxism states 20 years and the people are indoctrinated Vatican 2 is a Marxist revolution and far left and oppressed and the Latin rite the the oppressors and far right The world has become a global village and far left and there is no room for the far right and the global village has indoctrinated the whole world it’s pagan and Marxist and fixated on Mother Earth

All spiritual enquiry may or may not eventually lead someone to God (let alone Christ). However, that is totally not the same as declaring that all religions are equal to each other in being valid routes to God. The Pope should know the Catholic message - that only by, in and through Christ will any soul be able to live spiritually with God after death, he should know that this sets the Christian faith apart from all other belief systems, past, present or future. It seems that although Jorge Bergoglio finds himself Pope of the Catholic Church, he has yet to become a Christian.

I am FOR married priests

"Latin won't save the world" is simply not a serious engagement with the Traditionalist perspective. Please stop acting as if it were. It's a slogan, a polemical elbow, not an actual argument. @9:30 Larry makes a statement that shows he knows it's a polemical dig. Thank you, Dr. Chapp!

Theistic satanists believe in the existence of God, do we dialogue with them according to thus grand analogical thesis of vatican2?

JP2 was not the superstar for me because I watched with shock when he held those ridiculous Assisi events invwhich he prayed with pagans setting a bad example and the statue of Buddha was placed on a Catholic altar in Assisi. He later kissed a Koran which IS an act of apostasy. His lips were gravel rashed from kissing airport tarmacs which I thought pure theatre. He was a showman. Many of his encyclicals were verbose, imprecise and too frequent. He did not grasp the disengagement Catholics did to cope and he set up a modern cult of personality while in the Papal office. I was confused and dismayed by him during the 1980's when I was in my twenties. JP2 has determination and will power. Benedict XVI was truly a very good Pope. So sad he gave up. His doing so has brought the heterodox into power and its all come to a head. May the reaction after Francis be decisive and "smash them in pieces like a potters vessel".

I will just add, not finished listening to the whole video, to say that all are problems are down to V2 is a bit delusional. All those bishops and all good intelligent people they all got it so wrong??? It sounds like the implementation went wrong somewhere or somethung , come on Cardinal Ratzinger was amongst them he was a great theologian.

Not a fan of Larry Chapp.

LIARS LIE

you seem to be onto something Gavin; an egotistical pope..

If the Novus Ordo ‘contains corruption’, does that mean it works against, or is incapable of nurturing, holiness? How do you account for the fact that the High Church wing of Anglicanism is notoriously more liberal and permissive morally than the Evangelicals? You seem to be ignoring the power of the Word, which I don’t remember you mentioning.

Balthazar hoped all would be saved which goes against what Jesus said and he denies free will because those in hell choose to be in hell and they will never change their minds just like Satan and his minions once in hell you are stuck in your sins you cannot atone for them unlike purgatory where they can atone for sins through the prayers of the church even if they remain there until the end of time But as st Theresa of lesaux said we shouldn’t aim to end up in purgatory but go straight to heaven

The Second Vatican Council was a profound source of good in the Catholic Church. Consider the extent of the reforms which it introduced. Firstly, the Lectionary was expanded from a single one year cycle into a two year cycle for Sundays and a three year cycle for week days. The Faithful now hear far more of the Sacred Scriptures than they did before. Then, the Divine Office was expanded - far more from the Church Fathers and the Saints and far more from Sacred Scripture. Then, the reform of the Mass itself. There was no “golden age” of the Church when the Mass was in the Tridentine form. It was seen by many Catholics (not all, of course) simply as a show put on by the Church which they were required to attend as a captive audience. The Mass was said by the Priest in Latin and the responses were given in Latin by the Altar Servers on behalf of the Congregation. There was no real sense of the Congregation participating. Now, the Faithful all participate in the Mass. They can, if they wish, express their Faith by saying the responses loudly and with feeling. In saying the Creed, the Gloria and the Sanctus in a language which they understand, they are giving real worship to Almighty God. Then, by turning the Altar around so that the Priest and the Congregation were gathered around a common table (it is not a case of “either or”, but of “both and” - the Altar is both a communion table and an Altar of sacrifice) the Mass became much more of what it was always intended to be (and, indeed, as it had more faithfully remained in the Eastern Orthodox Churches). So, while something does need to be done to restore the Faith and Orthodox belief of the Church, I am quite sure that what is required is not a return to the Tridentine form of the Mass. This was simply a natural response of the Council of Trent, which forbade the current form of the Mass (and the reading of the King James Bible) for no other reason than that they were Protestant. Now, we have a communion table and, from the first Sunday of Advent this year, we shall have the King James Bible (in its current revision, the ESV) to replace the Jerusalem Bible simply because it is, considered objectively, a much more accurate and reliable translation (it has, in fact, been in use in the English Church since 1966 in the RSV 2 CE version for teaching and study purposes in any event).