Western Theories of Atonement 

The biggest problem in the west is it makes the Father sound angry while Jesus is the nice guy. In essence in western theology Jesus came to save us from the Father. In the east Jesus came to restore our relationship back with God.

I almost became an orthodox Christian at one point , but I had no support from my peers. They thought I was converting to a whole other religion. The ignorance of modern protestants and their overlooking of the early church father's, astounds me.

Wow an Orthodox priest explained Catholicism better to me than any Catholic RU-vid channel I've yet to find. Thank you! This was very helpful to wrap my mind around Christianity

I was first Protestant but knew there was more depth to Christianity. I read the church fathers and they point to the Orthodox belief system. I love the richness in orthodox worship and liturgy..

Amen and thank you for this teaching. I'm currently Presbyterian and fortunate enough to attend a church that encourages inquiry into early Christianity.

Catholic here. Thank you father, your talk is clear, straight to the point.

I've never heard this explanation/differences before. I truly enjoy these video teachings. Thank you and bless you.

What a wonderful lesson. Having been a Lutheran until 2006, when my family found the One True Church, these lessons are so important to farther our understanding of the Lord's deep love for us.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that a debt needs to be paid to God the Father for human sins as some modern theories of Atonement claim. Claims like "When one transgresses any law there is a debt owed to someone, typically the law giver, such as the government in civil law.", as well as claims that "We are incapable of paying our sin debt to God by cleansing ourselves from sin," and that "the perfect sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and the subsequent resurrection paid that sin debt to God the Father," reflect a theory of Atonement developed by Anselm of Canterbury in the middle ages (11-12th centuries). This theory of Atonement was called "Substitutionary Atonement". This is the source of many people's understanding, not the Holy Scriptures. This is based on the idea of total depravity of man after the Fall (an other Western idea drawn from St. Augustine): Man's sin (which is absolute depravity) must be punished by God absolutely. God's honor and justice demands that the debt owed to God must be paid off so that justice may be satisfied. The debt is owed to God by the human race, but humanity is in total depravity (fallen and sinful) and cannot pay the debt to God in order to satisfy His justice and free us from punishment. Even if we repent from our sins we cannot be forgiven because the justice of God has to be satisfied. Divine justice and offended honor demand that punishment be exacted, Anselm claimed, because God is unable to forgive until a debt is paid to Him. This is the teaching of Anselm of Canterbury, not of the Holy Scriptures. Solution offered by Anselm: Only Jesus could pay the debt because he is sinless and perfect (substitutionary atonement). The Son of God is punished by God the Father in our place so that His wrath and justice might be satisfied. The Son of God saves us from the vengeance of God the Father by taking the punishment himself. This idea of Anselm is based on the legalistic society that he was part of. He is also drawing from the Knights' concepts of honor and punishment. This is a totally new approach to the Christian understanding of salvation not found anywhere among Christian theologians before Anselm. Anselm does not represent ancient Christianity and does NOT rely on the Holy Scriptures. Even when he refers to the Holy Scriptures, he stretches the ideas to fit his world of legalism and his social context of the 11th century. If one wants to find out what the early Christians understood, you have to read St. Ireneus, Origen, St. Athanasius, Gregory of Nyssa, John Chrysostom, St. Basil and others from the Greek speaking Fathers. The middle ages are far removed from the early Church and do not represent the Ancient Church's Soteriology. In fact, even a contemporary of Anselm's, Peter Abelard, wrote against this legalistic approach by proposing his own theory of atonement known as "Moral Exemplar theory of atonement". Both of these propositions are far removed from Early Christian thought and created serious problems for Western Christianity going forward. Anselm's legalistic approach to salvation brought about the Indulgences of the Roman Catholic Church, which were developed based on the understanding that God has to be satisfied. This development brought about the revolution within the Roman Catholic Church called Protestant Reformation, which sought to correct this false Soteriology, but created other serious problems. Also, the theology of the "Angry God", developed later by some Protestant Reformers comes out of this understanding, as well. The "theology of the angry God" has caused much unnecessary pain to many people and continues to cause many people to reject Christianity. Peter Abelard's theory of atonement, on the other hand, led modern liberal theologians to develop what we know today as "the social gospel of softness, kindness and love" in an effort to correct the theology of the angry God. This new theology, however, lacks of the Divine Presence of Christ and His transformative power for humanity. Western salvation theology has been in serious trouble for almost a thousand years because of this constant moving away from the Biblical and Early Christian understanding of Salvation.

Thank you for these wonderful videos. They are so informative and so important. May His peace be with you, Father.

Nikolai the Traveler recommenced this channel in his recent video - I’m glad he did, this is great content that is concise and helpful.

So simply and divinely explained.Thank you so much Father.

One time I was speaking with a Calvinist who started promoting the Penal Substitutionary Atonement view and I asked him if he knew who Anselm of Canterbury was. His response to me was, "No sir! I don't follow the traditions of men. The Bible says 'call no man Father' . I follow the word of God."

Thankyou Father

Thank you for your easy to understand explanation. I am a protestant, taught a combination of the first three Western atonement beliefs you talked about.

Thank you so much. I am coming from the protestant belief system and convert to Orthodoxy. There is so much to learn and to unlearn. Thank you so much for this overview and explanation.

wow. I wih that all greek clergy were as orthodox as you are. thank you Father

What is not assumed can not be healed. That puts it into a more sensible explanation of things. Thank you Saint Gregory the Theologian.

Since my 20s, I have been almost theologically and humanly crushed by the first 3 theories of the Atonement. Fifty years later, I am thrilled beyond measure on hearing these theories so expertly, succinctly, and exactly expounded and Refuted by Fr, Panaylotis. Deeply grateful to God that He brought me to this video. Will listen to more of this series. Deo gratias.

Thankyou sooooooo much father Panagioti. Christ Is Risen!!!!!! This was a very very clear and informative presentation...I very much appreciate it. May our Saviour and Redeemer have you always in His embrace.

Fantastic..this is a must watch video...worth the time..super

This is one of the best breakdowns of The western understandings that I have seen

I was baptized and raised UCC. I visited many many Protestant churches around the world and never was taught this Penal atonement. None of the Protestant churches I visited including my own ever said Jesus saved you on the cross so you're good. I learned a balance of prayer and good works. That might became Catholic and was totally void inside and stopped going to church. Now I wish to become Orthodox because it is the truth it is a Church of Christ and the apostles. :-)

Ευλόγησον Πάτερ.

Always one of the first to watch your videos; thank you father!

TY Father

Praise God wonderful work Father . Thanks for taking your time to have this video made and posted on a extremely important topic. It is the failure to truly understand the work of our blessed Saviour on the cross and his marvellous resurrection that is a cause of so many of false teachings and false conclusion in the west

Was just talking about this with a friend. Great post!

Thank you! Love & appreciate your insight.

These theories of atonement have not been without grave consequences. They and the insane religious culture and behaviors they've helped generate had almost led me to reject Christianity altogether and I'm far from alone in this respect. Listening to a lot of NDE accounts of meeting Jesus and getting more into Orthodox theology lately have both help me see things very differently. I find it amazing just how much the two seem to reinforce each other. Maybe not perfectly but there is enough there to warrant a great deal further study. The emphasis on light and transformation in both should be enough to tweak at least a little interest in any curious seeker.

Bless Father, thank you for sharing this. Some of these teachings are hard to unlearn. But I am grateful to finally be in the right spritual hospital. Thank you for shining the Light.

Thank you deeply for this insight.

Anastasia Thank you for this clarity Father, 🕯️🕯️🕯️

This presents an incomplete portrayal of Western theology regarding redemption and salvation. The most glaring omission is any reference to the Council of Trent's Decree on Justification. It is worth noting that this decree's teaching on regeneration is quite similar to the Eastern perspective of theosis. Also missing is consideration that the West itself condemned the idea of the Angry God with its condemnation of the heresy of Jansenism. It is also worth noting that the Second Vatican Council summed up the truth regarding redemption thus: "In the human nature united to Himself the Son of God, by overcoming death through His own death and resurrection, redeemed man and re-molded him into a new creation." (Lumen Gentium 7) Again, this teaching is very similar to the Eastern perspective.

A Very complex Topic, Thank you for explaining in a simple way for us to understand, Father!

God bless you all Amen 🙏⛪🕯️

VERY INTERESTING DECONSTRUCTION !!

First time I have heard this. Amazing. Much cause for thought and prayer. Thank you.

Wow this is great. Thank you so much!

So glad to find this information. ❤

Thank you for this presentation. Coming from a protestant background I must note that I have never heard the connection between penal substitution and prosperity in this life, only salvation in the next. Maybe some charismatics would push that button though. Very helpful and rightly critical to my background.

Very good overview of the Atonement theories. I really like how these theories were immediately followed up with the Orthodox view of Salvation. Thank You!

Thank you so much for that wonderful explanation

Many, many Orthodox fathers of the past were tortured for not relenting to the infallibility of papacy, to name a few were those priests in Cyprus who were burned alive, the Russian Saint Peter of Alaska was literally disemboweled, Maximos the Confessor had his tounge ripped out. Saint Haralambos was tortured and beheaded when he was past 100 years old. Those of the faith from the one true church the holy catholic and apostolic church were severely tortured prior to the great schism. The Orthodox under the Bolsheviks were literally wiped out. So many Orthodox were killed when the Crusaders pillaged Constantinopoly. Whether it was at the hands of the Muslims, the Roman Catholics or the powers of the orient far east; the Orthodox have suffered more, and been martyred more than anyone else; Someone tell me when in history have Orthodox tortured or killed anyone whom did not convert to Orthodoxy, don't think so. What does that say about a witness to the true Church of Jesus Christ.

Thank you so much!

Thank you!!!!

Good video. Thank you for making it.

Thank you for this video!! Really nice clarifications

I'm a Protestant and can tell you from my own experience that not all of us believe in total depravity. Many Arminians/Wesleyans favor partial depravity, which is also my position (nor do all Protestants believe "once saved, always saved"; I grew up in a denomination that soundly rejects it). I also reject penal substitutionary atonement because it would have required Jesus to die eternally with no resurrection. But because Jesus WAS resurrected, He could not have taken our punishment, He could only have cancelled it and offered an alternative. (Many Bible verses, such as John 3: 16 and Romans 5: 8, clearly teach that the cross was a display of God's love to us, but PSA makes it all about God venting His wrath on His Son and reduce it to form of cosmic child abuse.) I've been leaning toward the governmental theory as of late, but don't know enough about it to say for sure if I accept it. I also lean towards the Orthodox view of sin; instead of inheriting the guilt of Adam's sin as original sin teaches, we merely inherit the consequences of that sin, namely death.

Amen!

Very clear exposition

Μπράβο πάτερ Παναγιώτη and Trisagion films for another great translation and interpretation I learn something new today thank you great job keep them coming when u get the time. God bless you all.

I love you brothers..

Substitutionary atonement makes zero sense to me, so it's nice to know the idea didn't exist for like half of Christianity.

Im cristean ortodox ☦️ love brothers in all Orthodox world

I highly recommend reading Fleming Rutledge on Anselm. She makes the distinction between what neo-Calvinists say of the Cross and what Anslem actually said. He was not offering a theory, and neither did he set the Son against the Father. Instead, he put forth a rational account of redemption in scripture. The cross is the unified operation of the Trinity in which God seeks to rectify humanity's falleness through redeeming humanity from sin. The justice of God is the loving act of healing humanity.

Very good video.. of course there is more to this, but in a nutshell/encapsulated and compacted* very finely. Great job We want and they (Protestants need more... Video's and information like this.

Thank you father for this video, it was really helpful for me. I feel embarrassed calling myself a christian but still not even able to explain to someone why is that Jesus died for our sins, and what that means. idk if you already have made a video on this, but can you make a video on the eucharist, and how Jesus being the passover lamb is also a part of our salvation.

I am so glad that i know the orthodoxy Faith e God love for all mankind.

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What if these theories all reflect some truth about the atonement? God is love. But he is also holy. I think the New Testament gives us a variety of facts about the atonement which have to be seen alltogether to have the whole picture. Just my two cents.

If the Church Fathers already has a coherent understanding of the theology of salvation, what deficiency did Anselm and Abelard think needed to be answered? If they knew the Church Fathers, what problem were they trying to solve? Was it a misunderstanding carried over from the Latin translations that Augustine had used? Thank you very much for this video, Father.

Can you please provide any scholarly work I can purchase that contains all these details?

I am seriously trying to understand the Orthodox view of the atonement but I am struggling. The Bible is clear that Jesus died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3 is one example of many. But in what way did he do that according to Orthodox theology. Surely it has to be more than just identifying with us in our suffering. Another clue that it must be more than identifying with us in our suffering is the numerous references to the blood of Christ cleansing us from sin, along with the verse in Hebrews which says with out the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness for sins. How does Orthodox theology understand these verses? I have been reading Athanasius a little recently and I understand him to say in his book on the incarnation that sin brings death, God said to Adam the day he sins he shall surely die. Therefore as God's word must come to pass we must die because of our sin. However the Word of God became flesh and died the death in our place. Thereby fulfilling the need of death for sin on our behalf. In doing so he has now freed us from death and in his resurrection has secured for humanity eternal life. How does Orthodox theology understand this? Any further light on this would be greatly appreciated.

☝😔 Protestant here, though Orthodox at heart, something has changed over, I'm uncertain what, and to what extent, but whatever was me before is not now, whatever that means. I'm a Protestant that is not? 🤔 so this is what happened (in brief) I prayed to Christ in earnest, I humbly & desperately asked Lord Jesus where His church is, where's the church He prayed for in John 17, basically, is she somewhere or nowhere. I was compelled, I say compelled because where else do you start but at the beginning. I've been down the history path before, started nearly 3 years ago, a broken leg gave me time to look (I was born/bred Baptist, been a drifter ever since, 'to avoid commitment'). So drifting from Orthodoxy(East), to Catholicism(West), for the sake of reference), to Reformation, to & fro unable to adhere but also doing drug habit rehab/recovery through Salvation Army (another story another time maybe). Anyhoe to & fro, trapped in the Western mindset, I've known none other, I can say that now because I listened to an interview between Hank Hanagraff & Nathan Jacobs. That podcast changed me forever, Nathan explained exactly how I think, at least the construct/matrix/mainframe work of the method in or of which my processing hinges on/in/with?? Nonetheless, I was shown that to be able to contemplate Eastern stuff, I had to have an Eastern main frame (or whatever, easier to picture than articulate), and/or parameters in which to think it. So, scrap 34years of what I believe is Christianity or walk away, what I believe the Lord was saying was, "Leave your net and follow Me." In other words, I accept what His church claims or reject the true path to salvation. I tell you the truth (Lord have mercy), it is the Lord who saw to it that I learn(ed) exactly what I need to be shown, in the order I need to be shown, most importantly, physically go to church. Hear this my dear Protestant brethren, we must humble ourselves in the presence of Christ, for God's name's sake. The church that the Lord Jesus Himself established with His own blood (has)/is/will survive(ed), the gates of Hades didn't/hasn't/won't prevail, as Christ Jesus Himself declared. The rock (the confession of faith) that Christ built His church on is still supporting His church today. But, brethren, I beg of you to hear & understand, there is only one church, Christ is not a polygamist, He has only one Bride, there is only One God, One Father, One Lord, One Holy Spirit, One Head (Christ) of One body (the Church), absolutely indisputable. The only thing keeping us outside His body is our (my, in my case) pride, even Luther himself had this concern, with the opening up of His word came us little popes, we all believe what we want. If we are to claim Protestantism as the church then remember who the first Protestants are: Papal Rome, they were the first to ravage His precious bride the church, Luther tried to help Her back but then Calvin systematically secured the tear in her unity, the rest is history. There's only one way back, through Christ who commands all men everywhere to: Repent! 'But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.'-2Pet3v8‭-‬9nkjv So what's my rant got to do with salvation? Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us, the sinners, and please open our deaf ears to hear the Spirit truth, in that salvation is found 'in Christ alone', in & through His body the Holy Spirit, His bride the church, alone. Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages, & Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers and the Theotokos, O Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us, Amen.

What sirs is the Orthodox explanation of "without blood there is no remission of sin" and whatever your explanation is, how does the Levitical cultus point to it?

Isn't the substitutionary death of Jesus what Paul taught in the Epistles?

so god made himself man so he could join man to himself and create it anew?

These videos are very informative and helpful, thank you. I personally find the music in the background to be a distraction though, it would be great if the music could be faded to silence after 30 seconds or so.

This is a wonderfully informative lesson on the greatest subject that a person can contemplate. But I would respectfully ask why the Governmental View as understood by Hugo Grotius, Charles Finney, Albert Barnes & others was not mentioned? I don't think it too much on the fringe.

Here in the West, we literally believe that the Father is taking His anger out and exhausting all of His wrath against sinful people on Jesus, which manifests as Him literally cursing and abandoning His own Son, so that those who trust in Him and His sacrifice, He no longer has to be opposed to anymore, as if God could ever be opposed to that which He loves. It’s twisted in every sense. It pits God against not only what He loves but Himself in order to satisfy some obscure, abstract notion of justice, all because we lost our way. That system of justice is punishment for the sake of punishment. Judgement becomes an end itself rather than a means to an end. That vision of God is a cosmic ego, not the Abba of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This video explains a lot, but I still don't understand, why Jesus had to suffer in such a tremendous and mystical way, Isaiah 53 says: "the Lord laid upon him the guilt of us all......If he gives his life as an offering for sin...Through his suffering,my servant shall justify many,and their guilt he shall bear." This video didn't explain this part in an Orthodox's view point. I am looking forward to Father Panayiotis's video to explain the reason and meaning of Jesus's suffering.

The Scriptures affirm, without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Also, to state that there is no love taught in the "debt and satisfaction" model is lunacy! The fact that the Son stands in the sinners' stead to die is ultimate love.

Does the church hold Augustine to be a father of the faith like the west? Also, what does the church think about Pelagius?

Amen

So was Christ's crucifixion necessary? In other words would he have accomplished the same goals if he died of old age? Please forgive me because I am ignorant.

I still don’t understand why the cross is necessary in the eastern view.

Hi, I am from a protestant background, but (luckily) nobody told me (directly) which of all the theories would be the supposedly correct one, so basically I choose to base my convictions about that on Scripture and have not come to a conclusion yet. I respect your views from a traditional Orthodox background but at minutes 5:50 -- 6:40 the Orthodox Father/Brother (sorry, I don't know what the correct title would be) speaking about Anselm's theory of substitution, says it would be unheard of in the first 1000 years of Christianity. That Christ was sinnless and punished in our place comes right from Isaiah 53 ("he was crushed for our inequities" "no") and the Letter to the Hebrews. I don't see why this would be unheard of.

If we break down the word atonement = at one mind= (ment) - one with kingdom of heaven within . Silent mind

Im Melkite Greek Catholic. We literally practice like Orthodox to a T except the Church calender varies a bit. If I wanted to become Orthodox do I need re baptism. I was baptised very long time ago not sure of triple immersion was used. Or just Chrismation?

Though I no longer think of myself as protestant, and have been drawn to orthodoxy for years now, I still haven't really wrapped my head around the Orthodox picture of salvation. This videos helps, but there are some things I'm not sure I understood completely (and I blame myself, not Fr. Panayiotis' presentation, of course). So, the death of Christ was not "necessary", but given freely - as an act of love - much like creation is a free act of God's love. Is that correct? But still, I cannot understand the part the cross plays in the story. I understand it is not merely a meaningless drama, but something that plays an important part in God's plan though I can't see exactly what that is. Can anyone help me? (Ps: congratulations for these videos, I feel like there is not enough Orthodox material on youtube explaining these deeper matters of theology and I enjoy both the clarity and depth of the present content).

In the Orthodox sense of redemption then, why was the cross necessary at all? Couldn't Christ just as well have grown to old age and passed away to be resurrected? What was the purpose of a painful, young death if not for sacrifice?

Idk.... then why do we Fast, give Alms, do the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy, do Matania’s, go to Confession, spend all night in prayer, like the Monastics.... it seems to me that in this way we daily “kill a litttle bit of the old man,” uniting ourselves to Christ in his sufferings, for the benefit of humanity, and rising from our own sins and defaults thru his Grace. Suffering is not an evil but a healing ointment when done for the love of God. It teaches. It heals. It humbles. St Paul suffered 40 lashes 5 times and considered it an honor to suffer for Christ. Was his suffering for nought? What did it accomplish? “The servant is not greater than the Master.” And what about the Toll Gates? Fr (Saint) Ephraim of Arizona who founded 20 Monasteries and performed miracles, believed heartily in them. (There is a very thick book re what the Saints have said about the Toll Gates at his bookstore in Florence AZ). Legalism is definitely wrong, but by the same token, God is JUST. If we think that what God is allowing in our world today, is not His punishment for our sinfulness, then we seriously need to rethink that. “Repentance is the way of salvation.” “The road is narrow that leads to Life, and few there are that find it.”

I agree with everything you said Father, but I can't help feeling unsatisfied with what you did not address--that being the orthodox understanding of the sacrificial aspect of Christ's death. Christ was slain on Passover--Saint Paul makes that connection in calling him Paschal lamb. In addition he can be seen as the two goats, without blemish, of Yom Kippur--the one mocked, beaten, and driven from the city and the one sacrificed before God. Then of course there is the story of Isaac and Abraham which ultimately point to God The Father, and God The Son. I would love to hear you expound upon Christ's sacrifice specifically, what it means, and what it does as I would like to be able to better answer my protestant friends. Thank you for your videos!

penal substitution has destroyed my soul. it sucks. it's awful.

This 'sharing' in suffering seems more like self-gratification on this god's part.

I am a Catholic but I get so much strength and comfort from the Orthodox Church. For the Catholic Church It is indeed the other lung that we desperately need. I hoped they wouldn't but sort of assumed that the Orthodox Church would go along with the Atonement Theory. Therefore what a relief to see this which I can totally identify with. Thank you so much

Ransom is what CS Lewis portrayed in the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

❤

Personally, I am aghast and agog that 2000 years of theologians pondering the scriptural teaching about the death of Jesus that they still refer to it as an "atonement" and still speak of "the value of the merit" of it. Nowhere is the death of Christ said to be an atonement and there is no discussion of any "meritt" that it bestows on anyone. Never. It speaks of the death as a "propitiation" and tells us that the righteousness of God is the forgiveness of sins. An atonement is made by a sinner as an expression of remorse and an appeal for forgiveness. Jesus did not die to express his remorse or to ask for forgiveness for his sins. A propitiation is made by a judge who is inclined to forgiveness of the sins of an innocent or repentant person, to be vindicated for their "failure" to execute vengeance. It was God the Judge of All who made propitiation by offering the suffering of his own son to demonstrate to the public that he did not negligently or flippantly forgive sinners who had harmed others because he too was a victim of their treachery. That justification is forgiveness, not vicariously earned merit is easy to show: [Luk 24:47 NLT] (47) It was also written that this message would be proclaimed in the authority of his name to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem: 'There is forgiveness of sins for all who repent.' [Luk 1:77 NLT] (77) You will tell his people how to find salvation through forgiveness of their sins. [Act 2:38 NLT] (38) Peter replied, "Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [Act 26:18 NLT] (18) to open their eyes, so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Then they will receive forgiveness for their sins and be given a place among God's people, who are set apart by faith in me.' [Jas 5:20 NLT] (20) you can be sure that whoever brings the sinner back will save that person from death and bring about the forgiveness of many sins. So "Limited Atonement" needs to go back to the drawing board and start all over. Also, the elect were the remnant of Israel that Jesus was sent to gather - the lost sheep - as told of Ezekiel 37 and Isiah 10:21 and elsewhere: [Isa 10:21-22 NLT] (21) A remnant will return; yes, the remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. (22) But though the people of Israel are as numerous as the sand of the seashore, only a remnant of them will return. The LORD has rightly decided to destroy his people. [Jer 44:14 NLT] (14) Of that remnant who fled to Egypt, hoping someday to return to Judah, there will be no survivors. Even though they long to return home, only a handful will do so." These elect were the firstfruits that followed the Lambkin wherever he went on the shores of Galilee, etc. aka the 144,000. The great crowd are as innumerable as the stars of the heaven and the sand of the sea.

We wrongly project human behaviors to the divine! The “angry God” is an excellent example of our projections. Yes, Jesus is the God man. Fully God fully man in all aspects BUT sinless. Factor in the depth of love the Creator has for His creation, a love we can’t understand and are not even capable of...Yes, God gets angry and there are consequences, but not in human terms! ☦️

Forgive my misspelling of Fr. Panayiotis' name. Sorry.

There is only one thing that God cannot give us and that is our freedom to love God,The Son and the Holy Spirit.

💖🔥💓❤️

Rather disappointing in very one sided atonement theories. He just mentions "angry/wrathful God", but that is looking at just a small part of the theory. He didn't explain that God loves us and wants to redeem us from our sins through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I can say the same thing about Orthodox use of icons like "OC worships icons and bows to icons", but that just won't be the whole truth. As Paul said "for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:27)

Can someone tell me how the orthodox Greek church views the book of revelation, in the face of all the Christians saying the world is ending during this corona pandemic, thanks God bless 🙏

Protestantism seems to make the predicament of humanity an issue of God wanting to punish humans unless someone else faces His wrath, rather than an issue of sin, Satan, separation, and death.

How can God forgive sins without the death of His Son? He said without the shedding of blood there is no remission.

Abelard had many issues. He was interesting but not okay most of the time.

Honestly, not to be disrespectful, but I don’t think this was a great description of the sort of recapitulation/Christus victor model that Orthodox generally holds to