Westward Expansion and Declining Rusyn Villages

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The land of Carpathian Rus' now stretches from that of Central Slovakia to the Northwestern corner of Romania. However this hasn't always been the case. In fact the land of Carpathian Rus' was much smaller before the 15th century than now. Learn more about what events happened that led to the expansion of the Rusyn people.
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4 мар 2021

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Комментарии : 47

@lemkowithhistory 3 года назад

How did you like the editing? I tried to make it not "bottom of the barrell" quality this time. Also link to other Vlach theories for people interested en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Romanians#Theory_of_Daco-Roman_continuity

@vladmihailghinea4626 3 года назад

I have a quick (prolly long, sorry) comment. The "Vlachs" are an ethnonym given to all of the Romanian-speaking people (Daco-Romanians in Romania proper, Istroromanians in Istria, and Meglenoromanians and Aromanians in the regions in Macedonia, that you pointed out). The old name for Romania was Wallachia (ro: Valahia/Vlahia), so Vlach (especially in Romanian culture) became almost synonymous with Romanians, just like "Ruthenian" was originally an older word for East Slavs. In modern times, the term "Vlach" either refers to the Aromanians (which sometimes are called in Romanian "Machidoni", aka macedonians) and the Meglenoromanians, or to the Dacoromanians in the historical regions of Timok, Western Banat, and Tribalia. It is true that the Aromanians are semi-nomadic, but i never heard of them going as far north as Transylvania, the Romanian communities north and south of the Danube being almost entirely isolated of each other till somewhere around the 17th/18th centuries. However, it is a very known fact that the Kingdom of Hungary _reeeeally_ liked to play with its ethnic minorities, colonizing them from one corner of their lands to the other. One good example are the Croatian communities in the Banat. There are almost _no_ Croats in all of Romania except for only 2 communes in which they represent 80% and 90% of the population respectively. There are also the Czechs and Slovaks that were colonized in Transylvania, the Germans colonized in middle Panonia, Transylvania, Western Banat, Szekels in the Bratislava region, very strong etc. So maybe some of the Vlachs/Romanians colonised in the regions were actually Romanians from Transylvania, which was back then as it is now predominantly Romanian. Anyway, keep on the good work. I wish there were more channels like these for more obscure ethnic groups.

@anuszbizsergetokommentek2171 Год назад

There is no such thing as dacoromanian "The Getae (=Dacians) are a barbarian and powerful people who rebelled against the Romans and humiliated them to the point of forcing them to pay taxes. Later, in the time of King Decebalus, Trajan destroyed them so much that their whole people were reduced to forty men, as Crito relates in the Getica." Crito was the doctor of Traianus during the dacian-roman wars. The romans wiped out the dacians in transilvania. Transilvania were resettled with a small number of roman colonisers to take care of the gold mines.

@anuszbizsergetokommentek2171 Год назад

Also it were the habsburg who liked to put populations into different places. Like after the ottoman invasion they called in germans, romanians, czechs moved slovaks and croats in hungary to repopulate the lands after the habsburg-ottoman wars. These wars killed a significant amount of hungarians and the habsburgs needed people to take care of the land and they needed more tax payers.

@InAeternumRomaMater Год назад

You pointed out facts my friend. Vlachs of Southern Danube didn't migrate by the XVth Century up to Poland and Slovakia, it was actually the Vlachs of Transylvania who did it. By the 1400s, the Hungarian Kingdom abolished the Ius Valachicum (the Vlach law) and Universitas Valachorum (Vlach noble family rights). Even tho many Vlach noble families chose to remain in Hungary, they had to adopt Hungarian language, Catholicism and chose to become a Hungarian Noble Family like the Drágffy (House of Dragoș), The Kendeffy (House of Cândesti) and possibly House of Hunyadi too. While Radu Vodă Negru a Vlach Noble from Țara Făgăraşului left and dismounted Wallachia in 1290, Dragoș Vodă left Maramureș by 1340s and dismounted Moldavia in 1359 (accepted date), so did Vlachs by the XIVth-XVth Century when Ius Valachicum was abolished and left for Poland and Bohemia where Ius Valachicum was granted for the Vlachs. The guy does a good work presenting the History of the Ruthinians but does a terrible work on the Vlach (Romanian) History.

@lordofgamers2577 3 года назад

With remote workers these towns might bounce back...maybe some crowdfunding is a good idea too. Pay for farmers to get new gear and all that good stuff

@vladimirskala 2 года назад

Actually, this is what I've been thinking about. It would require reforming education in the region. It's possible.

@cyraoh6420 3 года назад

Great job!

@esperantoviro 3 года назад

I am the grandson of a Ruthenian who came to the USA in 1910. I want to know more about my origins.

@tw6539 Год назад

I’m from eastern Slovakia and southern Poland, how do you know if your Rusyn or not?

@thomkolton3928 3 года назад

Just a quick note: I live in Osturňa and can say the village is not dying. Yes, young folk move away for employment opportunities. That's why my grandparents moved to America in 1910. But Osturňa is being transformed into an idyllic summer community with a small number of permanent residents. Land prices are rising. It is a desirable place to vacation.

@lemkowithhistory 3 года назад

While that's a way it can survive, I think overall not all these towns in Presov can turn into vacation areas (and honestly I wouldn't really want them to either). In terms of what Osturňa once was, that old iteration of the town is dead.

@thomkolton3928 3 года назад

@@lemkowithhistory I'm not saying that this is a good solution; only that it is our reality. I'm sure most of us would prefer to have full-time neighbors.

@michaelmarczinko7081 3 года назад

Good video! It is sad that even with our rebirth the villages are dying ):

@riszisan7020 3 года назад

Its amazing that doing paster works gives different brain function that doing agroculture grain growing. Its true read homo optimus- jan kwasniewski. This people where fiting of any master, priest given to ther willage by king becouse they understud what real freedom means. No master no slaves. Read about zatwarnica willage and others. Thats why they where fight off by many

@peternagy6067 3 года назад

Arent wlach basicly romanians?

@lemkowithhistory 3 года назад

Vlachs are the ancestors of a few peoples, a different one besides Romanians would be the Aromanians who reside in Greece and surrounding areas en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians

@squattingslavsurvey6950 3 года назад

Wallachia = Havasalföld, vlah = oláh. Olyan koncpció, hogy "román", nem nagyon létezett az 1700-1800-as évekig.

@InAeternumRomaMater Год назад

Yes, Vlachs was an exonym used for the Romance-speaking people in the Balkans but also for Italians. When you encounter the name Vlach in other forms also, you must be careful of what place it talks about because South of Danube it could be the Aromanians, Megleno-Romanians, Istro-Romanians and Marovlachs while North Danube it talks about the Romanians. But many people forget that Vlachs are in fact Romanians (the other people groups being descendants of Proto-Romanians) and not that Romanians "descend" from them. It was widely used for Romance-speakers as an exonym. Vlachs used the Endonym Rumâni/Români, for example Wallachia in the Old Romanian language was called actually Țeara Rumânească meaning Land of Romans. While Wallachia or Țara Muntenească was used in Slavonic letters. Hope this helps👍

@InAeternumRomaMater Год назад

@@squattingslavsurvey6950 It did actually....

@InAeternumRomaMater Год назад

@@lemkowithhistory Nahh, you're are wrong by that...

@cyndagomano4149 3 года назад

Daco-Romanian theory is the only correct one.

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

This theory has absolutely no fundament while the balkan theory is very likely.

@squattingslavsurvey6950 3 года назад

never forget Wakanda and Atlantis, too!

@InAeternumRomaMater Год назад

As a Romanian, I see the Daco-Roman continuity theory to also have some negative parts to it. But yes, the Migration Theory is very unlikely due to documents and some Archeological proof of Christian Vlachs living North of Danube and having a possible Principalities already by the Xth and XIth/XIIth Century North of Danube while Southern Vlachs was still wondering around the landscape like Nomadic people. The Principality of Bolokhovians and of Brodnici is the possible the earliest Vlach Principalities along side the Voievodeship of Gelou of Transylvania by the Xth Century. While the Thessaly Wallachia can't be the homeland of the Vlachs as its South of Jireček line which was predominantly only Greek speaking, no Romanization happen there. Only Migration is explainable about how they come to live there. The earliest mentions of Vlachs in Upper Valachia in Greece is in 976 by George Kedrenos, while Chronicler John Skylitzes wrote that in 971 the Vlachs was fighting the upcoming Pechenegs who came to Wallachian and Moldavian Plain North of the Danube. Mutahhar al-Maqdisi and Ibn al-Nadīm mentions in the Xth Century "They say that in the Turkic neighbourhood there are the Khazars, Russians, Slavs, Waladj (Vlachs), Alans, Greeks and many other peoples" probably refers to the Pechenegs as (Turkic neighbourhood). And Ibn al-Nadīm published in 938 "Turks, Bulgars and Vlachs" (using "Blagha" for Vlachs). And Varangians has also encountered Vlachs North of Danube.

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

I am highly against this theory for many reasons. 1. (Sidenote) there were indigenous vlachs also in western balkans, not just eastern. Those however got assimilated much faster as they did not fear the early christianized croatians unlike the pagan serbs and bulgarians. This gave the vlahs the security to safely come down from their mountains where they hided from the pagan invasion. Even far after the serbian christianisation the serbian tsar wrote a law to forbid intermarriage. Vlah means roman (latin speaker). 2. The cultural fundament of what we today understand as rusyn (ignore this word) did not expand to the west, it actually has been assimilated in the west. This is evident in the very rusyn oriented eastern slovak dialect which is closer to rusyn than standard slovak and the malopolski dialect which got heavily polonized through the centuries. 3. Together with western ukraine these regions used to form the homeland of proto-slavic from around 350-560AD. This homeland was called Horvatija. The timeframe of both the language and the Horvatian entity fit exactly this period. 4. Vlahs did not form the rusyn cultural individuality. They did however add another individuality to it. 5. West and East slavic are modern constructs and were not present before around 1000AD. This period carved out the territory of orthodoxy and catholicism with their own future ways of defining liturgy and language.

@lemkowithhistory 3 года назад

I don't think there's much to argue about except where the Vlachs came from. There's hundreds of court documents from these towns speaking of the Ruthenians arrival in the 1400-1500s so what does these mean then in your opinion if not expansion? Remember this only happend some odd 500 years ago so while they weren't called Slovaks these people were sufficiently different to have that be noted in records. When we talk about assimilation of Rusyn villages, a lot of this happens after 1848 not really before that.

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

@@lemkowithhistory this is the arrival of vlahs and not the slavs who were already present. By this logic the vlahs would have been assimilated directly into slovaks. But they assimilated first into "east slavic" "rusyns" and then into slovaks, while there was no "east slavic" or "rusyn" state to support such behavior. So im saying that the vlahs were just another layer of individuality which was already present from the very beginning of... slavic. Also since the origin of these vlahs was indeed very likely the eastern balkans -> romania -> carpathia they would have left a much bigger footprint of latin language and orthodox faith. But there is basically none. The vlah impact really wasn't that big. Just a layer. Otherwise carpathia would be a part of romania today.

@michalv2956 3 года назад

"This is evident in the very rusyn oriented eastern slovak dialect which is closer to rusyn than standard slovak and the malopolski dialect which got heavily polonized through the centuries." This is an extremely Rusyn-centered and overblown statement. The impact of Rusyn settlement is actually quite clear and you can pinpoint almost every single location where it happened. Even the communities that have been assimilated since the 19th century and began gradually use Slovak dialects. Eastern Slovak dialects have even more West Slavic traits than Central Slovak (base of the standard Slovak), the similarity is definitely greater with the rest of Slovak dialects and then Polish than with Rusyn. The East Slavic impact on the dialects outside of Rusyn-settled areas was not significant. I wonder what you base your theories on.

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

@@michalv2956 Eastern slovak dialects are considerably different from Central and Western dialects in their phonology, morphology and vocabulary, set apart by a stronger connection to Polish and Rusyn. - Lunt, Horace "Notes on the Rusyn language of Yugoslavia and it's East Slovak origins" As I said, there was no "east slavic impact" as east and west slavic are modern constructs.

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

@Lenka you are probably some urban slovak who learned only western slovak in school and has never heard real eastern slovakian or equated it with rusyn because you didn't understand shit

@retronic9302 3 года назад

If Vlachs are from the balkans, why don't we speak like romanians?

@squattingslavsurvey6950 3 года назад

Because they left the eastern part of the Balkans centuries ago and went to Wallachia :) But they use e.g. "da" for yes, so they learnt something from you, too.

@lemkowithhistory 3 года назад

Their population was quite a bit smaller than us as well (adding to what slav survey said) so they were the ones that were assimilated not us.

@alexpaul6054 2 года назад

They speak an old form of Romanian. The modern Romanian changed after mid 1800's influenced by the French language

@tedperkoski7534 Год назад

Actually there are many words that have their origins in Romanian. words primarily dealing with shepharding or sheep raising

@ukrainifree6857 3 года назад

modern day russian seperatist! check this channels funding! it will show from moscow!

@myovomonkin6550 3 года назад

WRONG

@myovomonkin6550 3 года назад

@Rockingda русини is name of ancient ukrainian

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

You are behaving like a thoughtless bot and you are doing the same thing to the rusyns, russians are doing to ukrainians.

@myovomonkin6550 3 года назад

@@TheDovahkiin97 kuban belongs to Ukraine!

@TheDovahkiin97 3 года назад

@@myovomonkin6550 i mean kuban has definitely strong cultural ties with eastern ukraine but not with western ukraine. So southern russia and eastern ukraine should actually be on their own as "Kossakia" or something like that while western ukraine belongs in one cultural sphere with southeastern poland and eastern slovakia. You can't have both.