The Keef Crew would say something like yea that's true but this comment is 7 years old and I usually don't reply on theses comments but my dude keef is out here
Today I played my very first melee tourney match ever. The very first person I played was Dr. Peepee (no lie). Let me break it down for you: 1. endless pillaring 2. 4 stocking 3. the end. It was an honor to play you Dr. Peepee
this is the most amazing display of falco meta that I have ever seen. mango's falcon wasn't bad either, but he should've been falco the whole time; he would have won.
At 11:30, PP could easily use his up-b move aiming at the ledge instead of the ground since Mango was already too far down, guess the pressure was too big and he couldn't think straight at that moment.
PP has revolutionized both cross ups, and Falco's Utilt. He is utilizing implied positional advantage on a new level, to garner free movement around his opponent, and covers excellent options. That being said, I still think Mango is better. His ability to read is unmatched, and he's just so damn fresh with it.
Doctor PP has the most impressive 3 wions of anyone in smash in just a little over two months. 3-0 Jman twice, M2K in back to back sets, and now Mang0 when he was at least playing a little falco. Wow.
14:36-14:48 Actually, PP wasn't even trying here. He was focusing all of his mental energy on ensuring that he got that classic PP taunt off before mango died.
PPMD's falco in the 2011 - 2015 era was level's above mang0's. Right now, seeing how PPMD is practically dead, I think we can assume that mang0's falco is better.
I know that. He probably knew it existed, but he always was reticent at learning it It just seems improbable that he really meant to sheld drop when he just started using it sometimes in 2015.
moraigna66 i know, even today he still hates shield dropping and always says hes good enough that he doesn't need shield dropping, but as the meta advances he just sort of needs to know how to use it. back then, it was probably just a mind game type trick to throw off your opponent. as for an answer of if what was going through his mind when he shield dropped, i have no clue.
Do you play this game competitively? You have to know that to perform a skill basically only once in a tournament (this shield drop) as a mind game (as you suggest) or what not, you have to be extremely good at it. Better than people who use it many times per stock because that allows them to keep this skill fresh. So I'm pretty sure mango didn't intend to do this shield drop
moraigna66 woah there, no need for a call out. i was just trying to give you an explanation. i mean why else would he do that? it doesn't make much sense to me that he would just accidentally roll his thumb stick slightly down at a very precise angle and do an areal out of nowhere. i mean like i said, we don't know, i'm not mango and your not mango. why ask a question if you only accept 1 answer? it's not wondering what he was trying to do if your only accepting that he just accidentally did a shield drop areal precisely in 2011. fun fact isai used to shield drop all the time, but people didn't give it much thought since it was back in 05-06 era and he was just a falcon player trying to be cool.
@Mofat Yeah he is. But he isn't trying to rotate on PP here like he has done to others in the not-so-distant past. It just feels right to see him playing the characters that we usually associate him with.
@luigi111111 Dr. Peepee is DEFINITELY more technical than Zhu or Silentwolf or even shiz. He isn't flashy, but a lot of the stuff he pulls off is incredibly difficult and fast. Playing a straightforward style doesn't mean someone isn't incredibly technical. If you look closely a lot of the things he pulls off are in close to frame perfect windows, same goes to Mango.
Wooooow, Mango is just nasty. I was thinking he lost it, but it looks like I'm dead wrong. PP got way too good way too fast, but Mango's still waiting at the top. These next few national tournaments are going to be pretty sweet.
Mango does like to get into people's heads that way. But PP is so analytical and careful, that Mango would have had a hard time with anyone else, tbh. I would say with the exception of the now retired Armada, PP is the best. His play is just so clean, it's disgusting.
+Wade McCall No way. He wouldn't of seen that coming. He was already walking towards the right looking for him to full length illusion. I watched the whole set, but that was a while ago so I obviously forget it now, but I think maybe PPMD wasn't doing a lot of shortens, so Mango caught on.
They don't play as read-heavy as you are asumming. Watch it again. He only started walking toward the middle of the stage after the start up of illusion. Before that, he was close enough to react to a sweet spot with a downsmash
That last game was by far the most technical shit I've ever seen. The whole set was great but when Mango went Falco both players went into overdrive. Props to Peepee for composing himself enough to pull out the win agasint Mangos maniacal tendencies. New favorite Finals video for sure.
@DrPeepee1 Congradufuckinglations man, you have no idea how LONG I've waited for someone to put him in his place! To top it all off you're from NC! I'm from Charlotte, you gave me some brawl + info a while back, and this makes me so happy. It's like Goku vs Frieza, instead of it being a saiyan to avenge me it was someone from my home state! woohoooo, get wrecked MANGOOOOO!!!
@JejuneJesuit the three hit combo that took the stock actually was perfectly on-beat, joe. >_> "anything is synched to the music" is entirely untrue, lol - most sequences of hits aren't gonna magically line up with the quarter beats in the BGM
@Triplethreat99 Whether or not Mango is sandbagging or not doesn't factor into PP surpassing him in terms of winning tournaments. What is and what ought to be are two separate things.
whereas at higher levels falco's weaknesses in spacing and approaching become all the more apparent, making either precise reactions and baiting like Mango does, or accurate lasers like say Shiz, all the more crucial to keeping Falco in the fight. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just adding on to the falco side
Question: at 4:35 Mango does a normal get-up. No get-up attack, no roll, no nothing. Is there EVER an advantage of doing this over a get-up attack or roll? Why did he do this?
Yes, it is advantageous in certain circumstances. The idea is that because mango only has a couple options (stand up, get-up-attack, roll left, roll right) AND because his opponent knows all of those options, mango is in a really bad spot. Dr. PeePee had the opportunity to punish mango regardless of which option mango chooses, mango just has to get lucky and hope the Dr. PeePee messes up. In short, mango just wants to be unpredictable, because if Dr. PeePee notices that mango does the same thing too often (a lot of noob players get-up-attack way too often) then he can easily punish that option. You should ideally use each option about equally often to keep your opponent guessing so that they cannot get an accurate read on what you will do in the future.
Justin Zetts But the way I see it, you can either stay in place (normal get up or get up attack) or roll left or right... if you choose to stay in place, isn't get up attack always better? Its less punishable because you have a hitbox protecting you. For instance, if PP wasn't shielding he would've gotten hit by a get up attack.... in what situation is normal get up better?
Think about it like this, regardless of which option you choose (including stand-up AND get-up attack) there are frames that you are vulnerable to being punished. While you do in fact have a hitbox for a bit during the get up attack, there are frames after the attack is over in which you are completely vulnerable (the animation is ending and you are unable to do anything else). For that reason, experienced players will attempt to bait get up attacks so they can stand outside the hitbox and punish afterwards. Conversely, standing straight up has no hitbox but is also the quickest way to stand up and for that reason is the least punishable in certain circumstances. It essentially gives the opponent the least amount of time to punish you, but is still easily punishable nonetheless. If the opponent is standing just outside of your hitbox trying to bait your get up attack so they can punish, BUT you instead stand straight up, you will likely be able to shield/jab/shine/jump before they can reach you. Extra tip: A lot of spacies (fox/falco) will stand straight up (or tech in place) and immediately shine (this is often referred to as a 'wake up shine'). This is a great option because the shine comes out on the very first frame, and on that frame spacies have invincibility. Hence, many opponents will get tripped up while trying to punish for being too slow.
Absolutely. 'Mix-ups" are extremely important in this game, because very few (if any) single decisions in Melee/smash are unpunishabe. Put another way, every action is a risk. That being said, if you constantly take the same risks, your opponent can begin to exploit that. You need to be unpredictable to minimize the extent to which your opponent can punish you.
Mofat, I'm a big fan, but I must disagree. Fox's strength comes with the use of his kill moves, like up smash or shine, he may be harder to combo with but that doesn't matter much when a good shine/waveshining in certain matchups set up the edgeguard. His spacing with nair/movement speed also make him much more mobile, whereas Falco's lack in that department makes spacing and accurate use of lasers much more important in approaching/spacing.
@RedArashi No that doesn't make falcon a bad character, especially when match ups are 55-45. He also has match ups like vs marth where its either 50-50 or in his favor. W/e
Even in this match you can still tell Mango had the edge over PP in this point of time. He was ahead, by just a little. Enough to keep PP lurking in his shadow close behind in the lead. However, even Mango isn't flawless enough to beat PP 3 matches in a row with Falco dittos, they are 2 VERY high caliber players that consistently swap off momentum.
That last recovery from PP on the third match is good to see, if you are on yoshi island, and you are that far out, STALL for the love of god as much as you can to try catch that cloud!
Mango still has that magic Melee touch. I'm interested to see if he can get his Jiggs up to snuff for next big tournament. Seeing his Falco again made me smile.
No, he just got nervous because it's last stock. He should have up-B'd to the edge, but he went sideways instead, so he tried to downsmash for an edgeguard which was the right option to do, but it didn't work out because he was just a bit too far away. He didn't have time to do a wavedash to edgehoge anyways.
@MiniSparken ahhh i meant OOS as in, as a way to get out of shield pressure. zhu and lovage do that kind of stuff all the time not saying what you did isn't impressive though :P you're too good ^_^
Best character to do this with is C.Falcon, it's much harder to do with other characters unless you're wearing a bunny hood on 1/2 speed in training mode or something. It's almost like dash dancing, except you dash forward, and when you dash backwards your control has to first go down before going backwards. Inputs: Forward (dash) -> down -> backward (moonwalk). Or search for a how-to on youtube, I'm sure it's there. Probably would be more clear, too haha.
@OurenV2 Come on man, smash 101. There's 2 rules/options when you watch a RU-vid video of smash to avoid spoilers. 1. Don't read comments[Don't look down there Jeff!] 2.Go full screen right away
@seanthedonconsidine Mango's played against Armada in-tournament once, at Genesis. I'm pretty darn sure he was still trying back then. I'm also pretty darn sure Mango can't beat Armada with any character except for spacies and puff. You'll probably disagree, so I guess we'll see at Pound 5 (or Genesis 2, if Mango doesn't go to P5).
