Anyone who hasn’t checked out chords of Orion for ambient stuff should definitely do so - he’s great and shares some amazing tips about stacking delays etc. Also - a volume pedal at the start of the chain here and some ambient swells would really add texture. Swelling into the delays and removing the attack of the chord seems to be a common trope of “ambient music”
Quite right, Chords of Orion has great pedal reviews and "how tos" for ambient guitar. Andy Othling is pretty good as well. Anyone genuinely interested in playing ambient guitar music should go there as sadly Mick and Dan are out of their comfort zone here and don't do a good job (IMO).
Stefan Fast at The Pedal Zone is amazing for all your ambient needs if you've not heard of him. He used to work at TC Electronic but left before things started going a bit wonky over there.
When you talk about not being able to use certain sounds in any situation, I think you are underestimating the number of guitarists who, like me, just like to sit on the floor in front of an amp play with the knobs (on the pedals)! I've never played in a band in my life and have no ambitions whatsoever to do so, and I think there are many people out there who feel the same.
As a synthhead, the Zoia should be right up my alley but every video I've seen of it up until know makes it look like a chore to use. Hats off to Dan for a concise practical demonstration and making it actually look fun ^^ Cheers guys!
Everyone needs to go and watch Stefan on The Pedal Zone. He does the absolute best demos and blows my mind with his ambience. His demo of the Meris Mercury 7 is probably my favourite video on RU-vid.
What I love most about this episode is that Mick, who clearly is uncomfortable and out of his element, still tries and finds some cool sounds and some appreciation for the gear instead of just trolling it. I think everyone can learn a thing or two from Mr Taylor: you don't have to love everything, but you can stay classy and still give it a go. Great work lads!
Thank you Zac, that was the general idea! Hopefully anybody who is in the least musical will be able to do something creative with whatever they’re given. It’s my one hope!
Mick: "Joe says [...] is it just an excuse for not being able to play the guitar properly?" Ironically, that is what my classical guitar teacher used to say about electric guitar players
I am a middle aged man with young children, I barely get chance to take a poo in peace let alone the time and patience to work out how to use the Zoia.
JtotheP68 the benefits of being childless synth and guitar heaven. Although you could set up pedals and play generative ambient whilst doing your dad duties.
Big fan of the show, but couldn't get through this one, too much struggling. I second the idea of getting Stefan Fast, Bill Vancil, and Ed O'Brien on the show to go further with it. On the Bonamasa joke about ambient music, guitar players often make the same mistake that photographers do, thinking that by definition the most technically proficient artists always make the best work, and that if the highest level of virtuosity isn't always on full display, then it's somehow of lesser quality or importance, as opposed to trying to make the music or photos feel like what they're supposed to be about and choosing the technique that will make that happen. If you were going to follow that sort of proficiency/virtuosity logic consistently, then every guitarist would have to stop what they're doing and bow down to classical musicians and forever hold their peace. This will be heresy to some, but while Bonamasa and Eric Johnson and others are amazing technically, they make utterly boring music. And some classical music is technically impressive, yet boring. That being said, there doesn't have to be a dichotomy between proficiency and artistry. You can have both (Nels Cline, Johnny Greenwood, we could name others). At the end of the day, though, all of these great tools we have are meant to be used to make something good. Let's all remember that gear debates, etc, are only so much wanking if they don't result in making something good.
@@ThatPedalShow I think you guys have a great balance of informing people of all of the great tools we have at our disposal, showing how they can be used in different contexts, and you have fun doing it. It's why so many of us come back every week to see what you're up to. My kids even know the show (and groan when dad threatens to put on guitar videos lol). I wish I was half the player you guys are! Keep up the good work.
I agree with you .I've read an interesting quote a while ago that I think it applies to all forms of art ..... " When the intellectual part of guitar playing overrides the spiritual, you don't get to extreme heights. -John Frusciante "
Great comment honestly. Really clicked with this one. The chase of a sound or a feeling within music is so utterly subjective that I think with this constant sharing platform of comparisons people have lost touch with that. Theres nothing wrong with putting some pedals or just an amp on for yourself and just tripping out, getting in tune with your soul, and making this river of music that flows at the same tempo as what you're feeling right now. It's always going to change through the days so the same stuff wont always come out. Music is for the player, sometimes felt by the people. Exercise yourself, close your eyes, and get lost in an environment of you choice. Keep creating ♾
These pedals would be worth a crossover episode with That Pedal Show and Pedal and effects. The four of you hashing through this plus a crazy fuzz would be crazy fun and may be educational for all involved.
Nick has said in a P&E video that he hates pedal RU-vid. I’ve seen them hate on TPS on P&E. Sometimes P&E videos are entertaining, but I don’t think we’ll ever see a crossover.
@32:25 - when Mick says, "I'm not thick by the way. I use quite complex software. I have a degree..." I totally expected him to shout, "I drive a Dodge Stratus!!!!" - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ANE8j5ay_UU.html - joking of course. Mick, you're rad. I appreciate the way you see all things guitar.
Mick gets a medal of honour for battling through this show and just resorting to facetious humour and not a "disappearing act" - on its own worth watching.
Awesome episode. I actually like having you guys figure things out vs having a “specialist” in the area as it shows a bit more of the learning process.
You bunch make the best content on RU-vid. Informative, insightful, and excessively fun. Even if I know or care nothing about the topic, I will always watch for the banter. Just wonderful. Thanks!
If you want to get all historical about it, it was Eno who coined the term "ambient", meaning music that just filled the environmental background in with sound that was so minimal and slow and often without a definable rhythm, that the music could be listened to or ignored at will. Since then the term has pretty much lost any precise definition due to everyone liking the term and using it to describe just about anything with a dreamy or floating slowish vibe. But you'll still find the term used to describe an entire musical genre of great variety and depth, that hews a lot more or less closely to Eno's original formulation. I do kind of wish the term had retained it's original precision, but it's just a word - others can take over, now. Ambient guitarists of the older style, closer to Eno's original conception, include artists such as Steve Hillage, David Torn, Robert Fripp, Daniel Lanois. But there are countless guitarists nowadays with some claim to making ambient music. Hey TPS - you get Ed O'Brien back on to talk about just this topic. As brilliant and knowledgeable as you guys are, I bet he's forgotten more about ambient guitar than you guys combined can claim to know.
@Paul Van Heuklom Absolutely - the germ of quiet, repetitive music goes back and back and back, I suppose to chants and windchimes and aeolian harps and surely many other things I've never heard of. It's the hardest music to define, but when it works, it really works (and when it doesn't work, it's the worst thing ever.)
Inspiring show! I found myself thinking "I've got to get one (all) of those pedals." Then I took a mental inventory of my current sound stash and realized I can already create weird experimental soundtracks to my daily life. With over 33 pedals of just about all effect types, a modeling amp, two loopers, some microphones, a Focusrite 2i2, a laptop, and a Digitech Trio+, I think I know how this weekend is going to go...see you on the other side.
I've been interested in Ambient ever since Fripp and Eno put out Evening Star back in the 70s. Maybe do a show on the work of Robert Fripp and Frippertronics?
Zoia episode idea: Give the pedal to Dan for a week (or some specified amount of time) and then to Mick the same amount of time. Chronicle each experience like you do your vlogs, and don’t talk to each other until the period is over. Then come together to compare your experiences with the Zoia for an episode. The final episode would be ~20min of Dan learning/exploring the pedal alone, then ~20 min of Mick exploring the pedal alone, then 20 min of you two comparing the sounds you made and talking about how easy or difficult it was for you to use it.
Really amazing idea! I would so love to do this Brad, but just for context.... I get to play guitar for less than half an hour per week at the mo. I have literally no time to stuff that I actually want to do, let alone the stuff that I don’t. But it is a stellar idea.
Love the Zoia. For me it’s been the most inspiring journey. It’s helped me learn about modular synthesis, control voltages and how to create sounds I hear in my head but have never been able to reproduce. The pedal is definitely not for everyone eg Mick, but if you want to explore the outer realms of sound and music this one is for you.
I’m just a guy sitting in front of my guitar, pedalboard, DAW and 16 button midi trigger pad making ambient backing tracks to solo over when I’m in the mood. When I’m not, I can just use a guitar and pedals. I play guitar as a hobby and worked as an electronic tech fixing synths for years. So, I find sound design interesting. I like how I can use my midi controller to control pedal parameters so I don’t have to menu dive and how I can trigger samples or loops as well as easy to use transport controls. I can start my loop recording with a foot switch, trigger a drum loop, play a synth bass line, add or remove effects and tweak parameters, play a guitar part and go back to tweaking effects to keep the soundscape interesting, all on the fly with minimal body movements so the flow of creativity isn’t interrupted with technical hiccups.
One of the most entertaining episodes ever, not just due to the awesome tones you guys created but also I was totally with Mick on the Zioa until Dan explained it so well! Now I need one!
Very first Zola loop is the break down to Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good". If nothing else, that song can now be covered by a 3pc band with the Zola! :)
the play of persona's between these 2 is simply awesome .....complexity and simplicity .....perfect thing for all of us discerning guitarists to witness .....much love & keep kickin ass
I love Micks attitude towards this stuff. Midi and the lot of it is obviously confusing to some levels and inherently in-depth but it’s inspiring to see him still find interest or at least the novelty and enjoyment in the concept of the zoia for example. Keep up the great shows fellas
ZOIA is astonishing. I bought two-one on my big board for crazy effects, and one as a super-customizable multiFX on my fly rig (where I can use it to replace the rest of the board).
Hey man, curious to know if you’re still using the ZOIA, and also if you use it with tube amps? I ask because I now have received two different ZOIAs that are unusable because of noise. Way more than any other pedal I have. It’s possible I happened to receive multiple defective units - I’m still going back and forth with Empress. But I really want it to work because it’s an incredible pedal that I also use for bass with no noticeable issue, so it seems to be a tube amp issue for me. I notice on this video they’re playing through tube amps with no noise.
@@rambis7012 I use a Zoia in several contexts: ampless (direct with cab sims via a GFI System Cabzeus) for my home stereo board; on a small fly rig that I either plug into an amp or a DI with no noticeable noise. I'm not sure what your patches are? Have you encountered this problem with every patch?
Okay, Mick seemed exasperated at times thru this video, but he was really grooving later on! Looked totally at home with all that gear! That made me happy on a Saturday morning.
For me, ambient sounds are all about creating a mood and, when used correctly, are the mark of a great songwriter. Look at the Jimmy Page’s bow section in Dazed & Confused (especially the live version from The Song Remains the Same). The atmosphere and mood he creates is astonishing!! Would it have worked without all of the reverb and delay? Maybe. But with all that added ambience the sound is out of this world and puts you in a place and mood that would otherwise be impossible!
@Logan 5 To be honest most music is really average in all genres including blues, Jazz, rock and even classical. There is very little that truly stands out from the crowd. Ambient music is no different.
Logan 5 I agree. Which is why I said ‘when used correctly’. It needs to compliment the actual song and not just be used to cover up poor musicianship. But ambient sounds can also make the difference between being a great musician and being a great artist. I’ll use Joe Bonamassa and Jimmy Page again as an example. Joe Bonamassa, who is another favourite of mine, in my opinion, is a fantastic musician, he has all the knowledge and technical skills any guitarist could wish for, but, again in my opinion, lacks the artistic side of someone like Jimmy Page who used many different techniques, such as ambient sounds, to become who I personally feel was one of the best songwriters/artists ever.
i was waiting for a show like this .. with the ambience tones in it ... great that you are brave enough to get out of to comfort zone to even try this, it's not that easy ... mick did well to express how he feels about it, many will recognise this and he has done them a favour ... still you managed to pull off some great sounds .. thank you
Thank you sir, and I appreciate that you saw what I was trying to achieve here - Mick here. All the too cool for school sonic warriors out there think we made a terrible job of it. But I’m trying to provide a bridge for people like me who literally have no idea where to start. Mick here. That said, I want to see some ambient/experimental players get out of their comfort zones and play me one Albert King lick, authentically. Which they won’t, because they see blues as a regressive ‘comfort zone’ that people need to get out of. It’s massive snobbery to be honest. I’m sort of bored of being accused of being in a comfort zone. It’s what inspires me and what I want to be playing. There’s nothing comfortable about it!
That Pedal Show well said Mick. We all have different musical tastes and things that inspire us. This creates a tendency for people to be snobby about the type of music they like. This is true of all music including blues, rock, classical and especially modern jazz. I am not inspired by the same things you are but I am not going to slag you off because of it. Just keep doing what you do because you love it, who gives a shit about anything or anyone else for that matter; I don’t!
dear mick, it is not my style to accuse or offend people ... so if I offended you mick, i am sorry and do sincerely apologise. In no way did I mean that you are in a comfort zone .. maybe i should have written "comfort zone" or "the familiar paths" "your regular music preference" .". I do understand that everyone has their own preferences and love different things, so if you explore a different unknown territory and put that on YT, that is brave ... music, it is no competition, let everybody play what he/she loves, so if you love blues, play blues, no one should tell you what you can/can't/must/mustn't play... i for sure wouldn't tell you what to play ... please mick, don't be offended, I love your musical contribution to that pedal show, i love your analysis and ability to bring structure and clarity in the shows, to have the perspective of the viewer in mind while making the show ... your sensitivity is your gift, it is appreciated ... i love to see what you and dan love to do and are inspired by, not what "spoiled viewers" want to see everything that people passionately do is appreciated my gratitude and love to you and dan
I'm so disappointed Mick didn't even so much as giggle when Dan said, "It's got all the ocelots in there." Really great episode, guys. I feel "seen", as the kids say, these days.
Although I love ambient music and am an IT engineer by trade, I can still identify with Mick on certain aspects. Obviously I don’t hate computers but my Chase Bliss pedals confuse me too lol. I think that this kind of stuff takes a certain kind of imagination and creativity AS WELL AS technical competency. Love you Mick and thanks for indulging us even when it’s outside of your comfort zone.
...the funny thing is you actually need to be pretty good at guitar when playing ambient because if you make a mistake it is repeated, echoed, and reverberated for a very, very long time!! HA!
Indeed! Much like playing a 100-watt Two-Rock. Nobody is missing those wrong notes. Good point about the delays and verbs. Atonal ambient would be my thing. :0)
26:13 xD I sooo enjoy that the TPS content is not void of these witty cracks of light hearted humor. Its such a small light that I can see from miles away! I will always adore the consideration of emotion you guys all have from the tps crew. Lets people know you guys are /real/ people.
The Zoia is too clever for me, which is more of a criticism of me than the unit. I don't mind a learning curve, but I think I'd go mad. I think the Timeline is as deep as my musical brain can be bothered. Cool episode though! Lots of cool sounds and info!
Great episode! A lot of my own material has a big emphasis on ambient tones. They can be hard to fit in a mix, but I often find if you arrange parts harmonically well the effects will often sit around those parts and enhance them. You have to be sparing but it can be wonderful once you mix :)
Richard Feynman, one of my science heroes, made a sound argument, that art and science are not incompatible disciplines. It is possible to understand the atomic structure of a flower, and see the beauty in that, while also seeing and appreciating the surface aesthetic too. AND he was also a shit hot bongo player. :)
@@ThatPedalShow Hey Mick, you know I love you guys but ... I need to disagree a little, sorry. There are bad scientists out there, but if they follow the scientific method then it seeks to rule out bias. The scientific method is an empirical method of acquiring knowledge that has characterized the development of science since at least the 17th century. It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. It involves formulating hypotheses, via induction, based on such observations; experimental and measurement-based testing of deductions drawn from the hypotheses; and refinement (or elimination) of the hypotheses based on the experimental findings. That aside, I'm just as confused (or even more so) about the Empress Zoia as you are. :D
I‘ve been waiting for this episode for so long! I‘m playing in an Ambient Band myself (Waves No Shore), but for us it‘s not really about looping etc. but more about creating said landscapes, textures and feelings. I feel like in this episode you‘re looking more into the experimental side of it. Maybe you can do another episode with Rabea Massaad because he‘s really got this style and everything around it down. And while you‘re at it you can bring him back for another episode on heavier stuff that is not just drive but all the other things you can do to your sound. Thank you so much!
Really love that reverse pitch shifted texture. Always been a fan of those in "moody" things. I hope you guys are okay after this episode :) I'm sure Zoia is made for people who make music with computer. The end jam took me to 80's action or scifi movie mind space. This week's show had so many tropes, comedy gold! I laughed out loud so many times. Thanks for the friday laughs.
Fun show guys. While you might say that ambient tones aren't your home base, I like that you don't just "stay in your lane" but instead give exploration and weirdness a try. That Empress pedal is total mind woggling weirdness- seems fun, but a lot of work...ha ha. Thanks guys!
I definitely think you should revisit this stuff with Stefan (Fast) from The Pedal Zone. This is totally his area of expertise and I'm pretty sure you know each other.
Love how the counter for Dan's time to make a delay went down as Mick asked questions that took away from the time needed to make the delay. This was a great episode. Some difficulties because higher tech pedals often require more familiarity in order to make them useful. Usually difficult to get instant gratification. Not all, but most. Regardless, TPS always gives great information and I feel lucky to have them as a resource for tone chasing.
Episode was ace, digressions and all. Loved the jam, and how eventually Mick gives in to the vibe and just _plays_. I'm imagining the first time Jeff Beck met David Torn.
@@MrScrofulous I'm not being entirely serious here, I completely understand the amount of skill needed for ambient playing! My comment was just a slightly cynical take on the fact that keys players somehow seem to have a monopoly on pad-like sounds. All this despite the work Eno did with Robert Fripp, essentially defining the ambient sound with his guitar!
I do not agree with Mr Bonamassa.... When you use these type of sounds and you strike a wrong note during a gig you will regret that note! every delay repeat and the repeat of the repeat and the reverse of the repeat of the repeat... For as long as that note lasts! These sounds are not forgiving!
I *really* like the RV-5's modulation setting. Somehow yet no other pedal has ever managed to pull off that sound. Sadly it's quite the one-trick pony.
@@JackFou I find that sometimes with Boss pedals there ae sounds which are just tonally perfect for guitar. I wonder if it's by accident because often there is rubbish on their pedals. For example I have their RC30 looper which has a waste of space section of mostly useless effects. Otherwise it's dead easy to use. If the RV5's modulation is better then that's another example.
aaaand the 'radiohead was so innovative and awesome' b.s. strikes again no credit to (or even an idea of) who came before them. well, perhaps a vague notion that "Eno was important", and then it usually ends there.
