Don't forget to think about the allies you might take as an alternative to expensive units. If Vahl and 3 warsuits is too much, what about two armigers? Video on Adepta Sororitas allies: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LCpphhWTu8A.htmlsi=hIJNiUsBxVuWlAjf
Vahl + suits is not too expensive I think. She has such brutal firepower and melee that she will easily make up her points in a single turn. And then you have 2+ save with potentially cover and armour of contempt. Also their Overwatch is brutal with all the rerolls! You probably want to use them on a turn where you commit multiple threats, but I will not be making lists without her and unit
I do wish harlequins had more models, it's just hard to picture them having anything more than a detachment in the codex and more infantry and characters.
@@vxicepickxv I mean harlequins just don't have the range or concept for that, but they COULD be a single detachment. Personally, I'm the type of guy who homebrews whatever I want. If I want my players to be pitting themselves against a new form necron destroyer that skitters about on a centipedal lower body while hauling a damn HEAT RAY around I'll just freakin' stat it myself.
Getting into sisters for the first time after finding the Our Martyred lady book, and ngl i ship Celifax, and will be fielding Greyfax with a full goonsquad, which is actually really solid along with Celestine
Why am I only finding your channel now?? Literally this week. I've already seen a dozen videos, and I'm really enjoying it! Are you open to exploring more factions? I love your insights.
@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber I play neither of those, yet I'm really enjoying your ideas on them! Chaos marines? I'll have to look for those videos! I've just been shamelessly watching your videos in order from God knows when.
Whatever happens with the points, I am glad that we got better rules even if it is at the cost of points. Points change constantly, so if they are wrong, we won't have to wait that long. But rules stay much longer, sometimes forever.
Thanks for the video, definitely some great advice. I'm wondering, could you do a video on the Sisters' Crusade rules? I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts on the flavour and power of the features.
GW still seem not to be aware that T3 models with a 3+ save die really, really easily in 10th ed. Retributors are definitely the worst example, they also compare pretty badly to Chaos Havocs who cost about the same, are T5 with 2 Wounds and get lascannons. The key point, I think, is that tournament boards are getting so dense that they're practically city-fight games, which allows squishy units with good short-range guns to work. On the average home or FLGS table where things are a lot more open, Sisters are very difficult indeed to play against any sort of decent shooting army.
@@avlaenamnell6994 Yea for 25 points more you can have an Castigator which has more firepower and is way tougher, Guess heavy bolter Retributors aren't a thing this edition.
So Happy with this new Codex, it has some nice units that can act as force multipliers. Like if you really want something gone, you can use an immolator to strip cover then an Castigator to improve AP and then your actually hammer can go to town. Retributors might have place in Bringers of Flame in a rhino as they have 2 really nice Strategems for that. The Disembark and shoot an unit within 12 and on an objective to get +1 to wound, and the Strat that allows you to disembark and shoot back at whoever touched your transport. With the Mortifiers vs Penitent Engines, The Mortifiers got a nice glow up still hitting on 3s vs 4s of the PE and the morti got sustained baked in now. Unless you want them to run screaming at your opponent turn 1 i think pretty equal. Only wish the Dogmata got a bit more of a glowup and that the Exorcist Organ was a firemode option instead of an wargear option, The Conflagration rockets look pretty decent with ignore cover and -1ap now but not 190 points decent.
Sisters are my first and only army, the last couple months i have really gone in trying to get a 2k army together, this video/list has really helped me out in how to fill those last 300 points or so i have spare! Im a fan bro! Looking forward to checking out more of your stuff 👍
It's such a shame seeing the rets drop to D, but it's the only thing that makes sense when a T3 1W model costs 25 ppm. Havocs for CSM also got bumped up so it's weird seeing the devestator squad stay unchanged at lower than either.
Just bought the battleforce, old combat patrol and a sisters squad. This video really helps combat my decision anxiety! Time to follow my dream of meltagun dominion squad!
My problem with Paragon + Vahl is that they costs almost a quarter of the army, but they get eliminated SO FAST. The definition of a glass canon, but I think that now that we are so much more limited in number of units, we cannot afford glass canons as easily. They cost almost the same as a knight crusader, and I think that the knight crusader is much more of a menace, both offensively and defensively. The only redeeming quality is that knight crusaders cannot use miracle dice, so their meltas are not as effective. But with T12 W22, they are going to soak so much more damage, and they will shoot much more. A less effective canon, but not a glass canon. So there is a trade off.
They die fast for you? They feel almost immortal most of the time for me. In the Flame and Fury they get Armour of Contempt, and between that and cover they save almost everything on 2s, maybe 3s. And in Army of Faith, with 2 miracle dice / phase, it's hard to shift them. I've had 1000 points attack them for multiple rounds and they came out killing all of them by themselves.
I think we have one of the strongest codices right now. Aestred and Agatha solve problems we couldn’t really address before other then tarpitting them and hoping for the best. Ghazkull, abaddon, mortarion etc now risk to be deleted when facing a thought out sisters army. I’m only a little disappointed by the canoness with jumppack. Find her way too expensive for what she does. Anyway, great video as always 💪
The points I feel have ruined a lot of units for non expert players just way too difficult to handle glass cannons. However spamming basic sisters in rhinos seems rather strong and could be a real fun way to play
The thing you are missing about the immolator too is its transport is only 6, meaning you can split a squad, put like all the meltas and canoness in one and drive it up the board while the rest of the unit sits back on an objective and good luck getting points for killing the unit.
In terms of the free strat, i usually find I double up strats on one particular unit. For example a canoness in bringers I’ll juice up the flamers with dev wounds and then also use the strat to add 1 to wound roll. So now anything super scary can now be wounded on 5s instead of only 6s.
Today I had my first game with the new rules, and I must say my MVP was a Dominion squad with 4 flamers and Aestred: it deleted 2 big vehicles and 1 infantry squad....With just Flamers!!!!! That +1 to strength while within 12 also helped a lot. And with Cleansing Flames (the Bringers of Flame stratagem) on the Seraphims, I had so many dev wounds weapons, it felt weird😅...Also Saint Celestine and Greyfax best ship in 40k.
The new codex has really shaken up the army. It seems very evenly balanced with nothing extremely over-powered. I look forward to working with the units. I really want Sacresants to work.
Immolator I think really deserves A tier, simply for being able to combat squads our sisters. More units = more miracles. I do miss the reroll wounds, but taken in Bringers of Flame, your units will still hit that awesome breakpoint of Str 10 melta within 12 inches which is super easy to do
... you know if these points hold, my weird Sisters army idea might actually be economically feasible sometime this decade. Admittedly that's at least in part because of my absurd insistence on All of the Warsuits All Of the Time but look, nobody got into this hobby to be normal.
Okay, hear me out on the Exorcist: Bringers of Flame detachment. Don't fire it indirectly. Zoom around, advancing whenever you like, Tokyo Drifting so as to avoid pivoting where possible, and fire the missiles at 12" range to hit on a 3+ with Strength 11.
Me, having bought Celestine, Vahl+Paragons, Retributors, Zephyrim and that new box with an excorcist 💀 I joke of course, I'm sure they're still playable. Will say I'm a little miffed at the Vahl squad now being almost 1/5th of an army now though, that seems like a bit too much.
4 minutes in. Calling it now, C is for Celestians Sacresants who have been done SO DAMN DIRTY Gain 1 attack. Going up to 150 points. Still only guard one Character. Halberds get Sustain hits, Maces get Lethal, the Superior's Spear got NEITHER, AND SHE DIDN'T GET ANOTHER ATTACK! I don' want to, but I think I'm salty enough about all that to cut them entirely. I do need to trim 425, so...
I haven't got to the sacresants in the video yet, but i'm kind of interested in 10 sacresants + a hospitalier. It works out as 200 points for 11 bodies with T3, -1 to wound, 3+/4++/5+++ and reanimating d3+1 every turn. Not sure if that is actually good, but it seems weird to give sisters a sort of pseudo-lichguard unit!
Been watching and liking for quite a while, my mates also love the content even though we dislike the "vtuber" thing. you're videos are sound and always thoughtful. It seems "vtuber" needs to be re-evaluated between great guy who might be an introvert and cheap asian soft pron. congrats on you 10K!
3 arcos are the exact same points per model cost as for 10. Both cost 15 per model, so neither is cheaper, but at 45 it's now our cheapest non-character unit, which is great for mission play
Penitent list I was planning on making went up like 480 points xD Will say though that Repentia especially cost too much. 18ppm on something that squishy is not on. Even in their own detachment that is steep, and outside of it simply unplayable.
Im curious about peoples thoughts on the interaction between a Dogmata + Devine Aspect enhancement in Army of faith. Dogmata [45 points] lowers enemy leadership tests rolls by 1 within 6" Devine Aspect [5 points] lets you pick an enemy unit within 12" to take a battle shock test. If failed you gain a miracle die
I was going to say the same. Good way of generating miracle dice. It seems divine aspect can be used in melee (?). Move her towards low LD units and it seems good to me.
Seems like a massive overcorrection to me. Some units got something like 40% points increases. I know Repentia are going to be much better but having them cost the same as Space Marines seems extreme. Penitent Engine massively nerfed both in points and in Tank Shock. Celestine massively nerfed, why? Imagifier costing more than a Canoness, lol.
My repentia previously broadly killed my target then died now they over kill the target and cost 50%. Damage is capped overkilling doesn't help except with consistentcy against the toughest targets
Just did a game against my friend playing Admech today. Using Bringer of Flame detachment, a full Repentia squad got one shot by Belisarius Cawl in a single melee fight, despite him being already wounded, and me being the first to fight... Yep, the girls won't see the light except in the Penitent detachment for now with that price
@@avlaenamnell6994 I thought at least the cannon of glass cannon would have been interesting, but without any boost on top of them, yeah, heavily costed. But at least, I prefer our points to be high with the codex release, and that we now have cool rules. The points will end up decreasing on their own, even if we have to wait a bit for that
@@kazamiagame3523 yeah rules are harder to change, so having cool rules and bad points is better than the inverse for sure. But some of these points are just crazy, like retributors being 125, or sacresants being as costly as they are, and zeph compared to jump assault intercessors. a lot are paying marine or more than marine levels of points but are worse. Good news is im probably the most experienced player in our group, so i could use the handicap, especially when playing with the less experienced people, and they dont have to feel bad about me artificially handicapping my self.
Most of the rules changes seem good. Points changes seem a bit messed up. Arcos seem kinda overpowered, you may not have noticed but while they lost 4+fnp they gained 6+ invuln along with points drop. So they are as survivable as before and potentially better against multi-wound attacks since the 6+ will cut a bunch of the damage. Repentia are surely the worst change, both thematically and balance. They SHOULD be a cheap throw away unit, not an elite costed unit you have to invest tons of resources in to make work...
I think I'm down bad for the new Hospitalier. She's in all the lists I've made so far for each detachment lol. In Penitent Host she can have the Psalm of righteous judgement and with a 10 BSS guarding her she's probably the safest pick to hold the enhancement. I'm especially curious to try her in a 10 brick of Sacresants. I could see the already good save/invuln + FNP + harder to wound doing work. And the resurrections to bring back whatever went through.
Aestrid and Agatha also come with a bonus to a miracle dice you bring in. So technically a miracle dice of 5 already gives you devastating wound. While not the same as a dialogue, they kinda support in that way as well. Maybe they’re in between A and B? Lol
These are the release day points of your finally fully playable army. Of course they are a still a little rough, because the improvements to the sisters were really strong. The points will go down in a while after GW tracked some feedback.
It is a thought to tier enhancements but some of that will depend on play style and some enhancements are cheap enough that you will want to have them to round out the points. When I look at each detachment I will have to remember to heavily analyse the enhancements
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber for me they are for rounding the points up, i prefer to play with the girls than to get enchantments (spelled wrong of course)
Before the points dropped I built a test list and went to 1800 pts expecting the points hike, that like shook out at 2.2k quite a hike. Not complaining though
What's your recommendation for Anti-tank/Anti-Monster? We've got Retributors placed in C-Teir, and the Warsuits and Co. down in B. Castigor is not an anti tank option and Penitent buzzsaws are okay at best and only functioning at full strength in the Penitent Host. There is of course the ol' standby of Battle sisters with Multimeltas, Palatine, Dialogus. Bringers of flamers gets the "burn everything" Seraphim. But what will you, Christain Von Carmian, plan to run to cut through all that heavy armor and hide?
With the free strats nerf (arguably side-grade with battle tactics removal, but 5/6 of our strats are battle tactics...) the on foot canoness is less good. You really only want one because only one can use it per battle round, and only the jump canoness in AoF is guaranteed to be making use of the free strat without dying every single turn. Free grenades is good, but if you're that close to anything with BSS they're going to die and you're paying 50 pts for around 3 mortals. Ew.
As im still rebuilding my force my list didnt go up that much, around 200pts. But the units that suit the play style I'm building for all got really good things and if the points as printed had been in play it would have been impossible to lose. And thats actually kinda boring
Re: Pts, last MFM I had 1500, with codex 1535, with new MFM 1770. BSS - why do we have conflicting abilities. Sticky objectives, capture and move onward. But then simulacrum, sit on objective for miracle dice. Probably should of given sticky to dominions.
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber BSS then fulfill the role of moving up and holding the *battle*line, and dominions have the scout move, reactive move, and sticky to let them capture early, and keep moving forward.
Great video as always!! I need help that is partly mentioned in the video. If I'm packing SB dominions and splitting them with the rhino. Attached a dialogus with them that is being left behind 24 inch across the board. Can she still affect the miracles dices. I'm hoping she can :)
Just eyeballing the points & rules, I feel that things are about right and it's a strong army, but is notably a "strong, somewhat elite" army (if I assembled and painted the last couple of things, my old metal army (plus plastic immolators & Celestine) would be just over 3K points now). Whereas if we just had these new rules and NOT points increases, it would be too strong.
I’m recently starting sisters and ofc being warhammer it’s “draining” my wallet. I was hoping to be kinda cost effective to finish off the list and get one of the imperial knights. Any recommendations?
Didn’t they change it so you can’t control the objective markers first turn? Or am I having a false memory? I’m just thinking about Novitiates infiltrating and the simulacrum being dependent on control of the objective
but since the simulacrum triggers at the end of the command phase I think it is ok? It hurts my brain but since two rules happen at the same time - controlling an objective and simulacrum the player whose turn it is can choose the order it happens
ummmm....might want to re-read the grenades strategem....it's not for each model anymore....it's making a single 4+ from ONE model in the grenades unit. 1cp for a chance at 1 mortal wound........grenades strategem is not useful anymore. also......using the fire and flame detachment = assault weapons castigator >:3
Grenades now specifies that you pick one model to fire the weapons and that model needs to be in range and have line of sight, but you still roll 6 dice.
honestly both are really good. I haven't decided which is better. Whichever you have the least of. If you are using Bringers of Flame then dominions like it more than sisters
@@ChristianVonCarmian40kVtuber That's awesome cause that means I can upgrade himin any Crusade games I do. By the way you are awesome & I love what you do!
I wouldn't recommend it as she loses the re-rolls. It might work at very small points sizes but she costs about the same as an Armiger. They will work better
I feel like comparing our units to similar space marine units fails as a comparison. Yes, devastators are "better" for less points. But we don't have access to devastators. We have Retributors. They're priced the way they are based on what they bring to their respective armies, not on an objective scale
Sisters are still A tier at worse. Sisters went up an average of 15%. Some outliers are up 20% but we are fine. Unfortunately some units still suck but they sucked in the index so they aren't really bringing the power down
I think the loss of our cheap scoring units is being outrageously slept on. Yes, we can now put out good damage numbers, but at nearly 15% increases in points across the board combined with the loss of all of our cheap scoring units, I think we're not looking as good as the datasheets suggest. 3x arco flags are now our only chaff scoring boys, and their survivability ate a nerf. I don't think our win rates are going to be as absurd as everyone thinks they're going to be. I'm expecting low 50's, upper 40's. Points cost and lost units put us in the mid tier.
@fateweaver9844 and I think you're over valuing the ability to kill things on paper. Our girls are still wildly soft bodies with fairly low speed that come with a focus on melee and short distance firepower. That's all well and good for casual beer and pretzel, we're going to continue to do really well there, but that's not what our points are balanced around. Losing an 8th of our army and our cheap scoring units at the same time isn't something to be underestimated. I can see us struggling against a lot of the coming meta, especially looking at the buffs that other armies got alongside ours. We didn't just gain a ton of value in a vacuum. If I were a betting man, I'd wager the points and units we lost are going to keep us at parity with what we gained. I'd be pretty surprised if our tournament numbers broke 54% win rates. Too many of our units are paying Astartes prices for Militarum bodies.
My sisters are A tier vs T9 and t10 spam armies Against any other army I lost 25% of my units lost miracle dice and have marginally better datasheets I would expect a 40% win rate
They killed us before we could start and I hate that the codex is already outdated, where is the fing outrage? My army just lost 8 multimeters and a tank, what the hell? And the new rules.... I ran I play for 8 months now and points and rules got changed 5 times, I bought the index cards... All worthless
