What can You do with your Commercial Pilot Certificate? 

They can figure out how to make commercial aviation require a juris doctorate in order to stay out of prison, but they can't figure out why there's a pilot shortage

Working on my commercial right now. Feeling more discouraged, the more I get deep into the weeds, then forgetting the basics as I fill my mind with attorney speak non-sense…

Great deeper dive into the "holding out" regs. Also your comment, "you can pimp the plane, or pimp the pilot, but not both", is key to understanding this. Thanks Todd!

Todd I hope you can see this question since it’s a little late compared to when you posted this video: From what I got after watching the video, you’re saying any commercial pilot can hold out their service to fly as long as they don’t also provide the airplane which they will receive compensation for their flying services. This is because as long as the pilot doesn’t provide the airplane then he/she isn’t considered a air carrier and the definition of holding out listed in AC-120-12A. I’ve always been taught that any advertisement for piloting service other than the exceptions listed in 119.1(e) would be considered holding out, and have been teaching that to my students.

Im not anywhere near getting my commercial but really thankful that I could watch this and soak up your wisdom THANK YOU! *you are a prayer

Everything you talked about on this video I was asked on my commercial checkride.

“You can pimp the pilot or you can pimp the plane, but you can’t pimp them both because that’s illegal”. Can’t wait to tell that to my Oral Examiner 😂

Yes definitely actually helped break it down. Just discovered your channel. Awesomeness.

This helps a bunch, thank you Todd!

This helped me SOOOOO much

I had to watch this video a few times to really understand it, but it was very helpful! Thank you!

Great breakdown Todd thank you!

Fantastic video thanks

Todd basically what I got from the 21 minute video was I can rent myself out or I can rent an airplane now but I cannot rent both out. Is it really that the jest of it? I am just starting my commercial Ground School I am literally on chapter 2 and I hope and pray there’s going to be a lot more clarity as I go through the regs. But it does seem very complicated. Unless, what you said was making it as simple as it is I can hire myself out but I cannot do so if I am also hiring my plane out with me. Thanks for putting up the video it was not as clear as I had hoped it would be but I did get some good information out of it.

I am going to say that yes you are convoluted because you are saying that I can hold out when my flight instructors preach to me not to hold out 😂

I am hoping to eventually own a charter service. I'm only working on my ifr, but this frankly seems a bit crazy. I just you need a lawyer to jump through all the hoops.

Good stuff, I have so much to do lately it really helps to have somebody that knows whats what walk me through it. Otherwise I'd likely avoid refreshing myself. The regs can be a bit murky in places and then instructors want to stay conservative to keep their clients and themselves in the clear, so you get simple answers like "You can't hold out". Bureaucrats... "air transportation is defined as air transportation...". "Common carriage is ... um... (shit what do we say? whisper whisper...), its a common-law term, yeah that's the ticket." Never mind that the term "common law" has nothing to do with being commonly known, nor is it consistent. I've talked about common law with legal folks from places like Belgium where they don't have common law, only direct codified statutes and regulations; and it seems to pop a fuse knowing our judicial system can basically make it up as they go(at least in part) just by setting precedent.

so im just getting into becoming a pilot and i was lloking for a video explaing in laymans terms what services i can and can not charge people for.

9:36 WAIT... In order to hold out, you must operate under Part 121, Part 135, or Part 119 Operators Certificate. Part 119.e is explaining the things you can do without needing an operators certificate. THEREFORE, if you can only hold out under the conditions above, and flight instruction, ferry flights, etc. are EXEMPT from part 119, then you CANNOT hold out while doing those things. right? "Operations that constitute common carriage are required to be conducted under Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR) Parts 121 or 135." (AC 120-12A)

so basically regardless of getting your commercial license you are not allowed to buy your own airplane and provide a service using that airplane with you as the pilot in command and advertise that as your business. if thats the case then whats the point in spending thousands of dollars to the the license only to need to spend thousands more to use it under its context and we wonder why the aviation industry is so expensive and locked behind a high salary bracket becoming self employed in aviation is deliberately, convoluted , confusing , and wrought with infinite regulation and government induced cost which makes it not worth it or too expensive for the average person what happen to the American dream ? what happen to taking your passions and skills and using them for the pursuit of happiness? and they wonder why mistrust in institutions are become a popular trend just like any other industry now the only people making money are big corporations and executives and the institutions are making sure it stays that way

I have an interesting scenario. I'm a sheriff's deputy and my Sheriff and Chief think it's cool I'm getting my ratings. When I get my CPL, they are interested in having me do some flying for the agency. If given a flying assignment, I would be getting paid a normal deputy on-duty wage. The plane rental would be under the departments name. So I see it as I'm getting paid to fly their airplane therefore, I'm only providing the pilot not the plane. Help me understand how to make sure I'm legal.

I can understand that when a reg doesn’t say something, it doesn’t apply but where in the regs DOES it say that it’s illegal to provide the airplane and yourself? I completely get that it’s illegal and I agree with that, I just want to be able to point at something when a dpe asks me how I know that. Would he say it’s a stretch to point at that first line in the holding out section of AC 120-12A? This is a fantastic video and I’m truly grateful that you took the time to make it- just trying to wrap my head around this without having to enroll in a law school

Random question. If your father was paying for your flight training could you take him up in an airplane while time building. Technically you're being compensated right? Or could someone who owns a plane but isn't current ask you to fly them somewhere for no compensation other than flight hours? At what point are flight hours considered compensatory. Only if the pilot needs them for a rating? what if you didn't log the time. Just some weird questions if anyone has any answers.

19:00 I was always told you can’t hold out and it would include a willing ness to carry someone or something and holding out could be something as small as word of mouth but you made it sound like you can do way more like having a business card

Hi! thank you for amazing video. It was really helpful. But I have one question. I understand that if a commercial pilot holds out his pilot service without providing an aircraft, he doesn’t need operating certificate as he is not an operator. My question is that on AC 61-142_Paragraph 10. Holding Out_10.1. General Discussion. it seems like a private pilot who “holds out for pro rata share of operating expenses” is considered as Common carriage regardless of offering an aircraft or not. But isn’t it only true when the private pilot offers an aircraft and he is an operator based on your explanation? How can the private pilot be a common carriage even if he is not offering an aircraft? If the AC is insisting that just to prevent a private pilot from being air taxi pilot, then I agree with that. But I don’t understand how “holding out” itself can make a private pilot a common carrier.

Around the 13:15 mark you state that “air transportation” doesn’t apply. I’d argue that it does apply due because of the way “interstate air travel” is defined in 14 CFR 1.

I have few questions I am sorry for the long comment I hope you can see this and help me understand it a bit more. private carriage doesn’t fall under part 91 and it’s only for part 125 and 135 companies who doesn’t want to obtain air operating certificate since they only going to have only few limited contracts and carry only certain people. Does that mean that those part 125/135 companies under private carriage goes through the same inspections and everything as a regular part 135 who is holding out and has operating certificate? And if no, what separates them from a pilot who buys his plane and provide private carriage to only certain selected contracts (aka wet lease)? And does dry lease always falls under part 91 since the customer is the one who always provides the plane? Last question is there a difference between having operational control of the AIRPLANE and operational control of the flight(aka PIC calling the shots on whether it’s a go or a no go flight)? I know I might be mixing some stuff up I hope you can help me understand it a bit more thank you

Thanks for the video! In your example that if I am a commercial pilot, I can hold out my services just as a pilot to fly other peoples' planes - what type of flying is that called? Is it private carriage? Part 91 contract flying? Also another slightly related question - part 91 Subpart F (91.501) seems to apply to large airplanes only. Where does part 91 contract flying with a smaller airplane fall under? Thanks for your time!

Can we tell friends/family that we can take them where they want/need as long as we split the cost of the rental, like when a private pilot (pro rated share)? or is this still "holding out"?

If I owned the aircraft, and also was a commercial pilot, could I fly employees/clients? Even if I was just getting hours, wouldn't that be compensation?

So can i say that because i am a commercial pilot, and can therefore be compensated, i can “hold out” to the general public by advertising (facebook, ads, postcards) my pilot services but not be in “operational control” of the aircraft and still operate under part 91?

Ah you're the same guy from the elevates. Thought you looked familiar.

I see I can instruct but can I use my own plane as long as I don’t advertise it? Or can I advertise for both? Thanks

Great video Todd. Trying to wrap my head around my own situation, working on getting my commercial currently and I have my own small plane, if a friend asked me to fly them to another state and they offered to split fuel with me is that still allowed as a commercial pilot? I assume under private pilot that wasn’t an issue since it would fall under pro rata rules but at one point in your video you mentioned the FAA could view the hours flown as compensation since I’m working on building hours simultaneously, I’m just trying to understand if I’d be breaking the rules in that situation?

Hello everyone! What type of jobs are there once you’re commercially licensed certified? The obvious is “flying for American Airlines” etc……..But how do you get hip to or aware of all the “obscure cool jobs” as a pilot? For example: “Crop Dusters” etc………beside the typical “Continental Airlines commercial pilot”………..how do you become aware of all commercial jobs? Is there a bi- monthly publication or monthly magazine? A website? How does one know or learn of all the potential jobs besides the obvious jobs for commercial pilots?

So with just a CSEL without a CFI rating can receive compensation in your own plane or a rental if your doing a non-stop scenic flight within 25 NM of the airport?

Clarification needed… So you CAN pimp the pilot AND the plane as long as you are conducting operations for reasons outlined in 119.1(e)?

So the scenario you brought up in the beginning of the video would be legal ? I can legally as a commercial pilot make business cards and offer safety pilot services or something like that, so long as I’m not providing the aircraft?

I have a question, could you become a CFI (ASEL)if you have a limited commercial certificate , no instrument rating

FAAs definition of carrier is a “PERSON who undertakes directly by lease or other arrangement, to engage in air transportation.” So, the advisory circular negates your proposal that you can “pimp the pilot”… “a carrier (person) becomes a common carrier when it ‘holds itself out’ to the public.” If you have case law that upholds your assertion then by all means present it.

I was taught that you can’t hold out for your pilot services even if your flying their plane

From what I get from this is. Getting your pilot license and spending all that money for the school and the plane rentals and the test. You blew all that time and money to not gain nothing you put into it. Is that right?

... I just wanted to buy a 172 or 182 , paint it yellow and be a air taxi! Not everyone wants or should be a flight instructor!

So can i holdout myself and my plane just for flight instruction??

Awesome video. 1 question. If a person rented a plane from a FBO/Flight School (instead of actually owning a plane), could you still fly that person legally & get paid?

Okay, let me make sure I understand this. If for some reason my wife lets me buy a Normal/Utility category plane, I can hold out myself and the airplane because I am not renting the airplane but selling my time? The way I understand it is that since I am not advertising the aircraft itself for "compensation or hire," it is okay, and I do not need a commercial operator certificate. Well, unless the FAA considers the accumulation of hours as compensation, right?

So just to be clear...in your example when you say "yes you can hold out"...you are saying it is legal, as long as you don't accept ANY form of payment for ANY amount (other than the exception 61.113(c) that you discussed ) is that correct? In your example, the pilot would actually have to incur 100% of the expenses for it to be legal. At 19:46 you start to discuss how much the pilot would have to pay for in order for it to be legal. However, in a letter of interpretation found at www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/safe_charter_operations/media/AirPooler_Determination.pdf ,the FAA specifically mentions: We conclude that, with regard to pilots using the AirPooler website, all four elements of common carriage are present. By posting specific flights to the AirPooler website, a pilot participating in the AirPooler service would be holding out to transport persons or property from place to place for compensation or hire. Although the pilots participating in the AirPooler website have chosen the destination, they are holding out to the public to transport passengers for compensation in the form of a reduction of the operating expenses they would have paid for the flight. This position is fully consistent with prior legal interpretations" In other words, even if there is a common purpose, you still cannot hold out to the general public if you are showing a willingness to transport passengers for compensation or hire (again, in your example, the compensation would be in the form of a reduction of the operating expenses the passenger(s) would have paid for the flight thus 61.113(c) would not be applicable in your example. )

So, as a CFI I cannot hold out to provide flight instruction in my own C152? Would this not fall under 119.1(e)?

Lol I’m still confused even after this vid 😂

So what if I operate the plane under an LLC, hire myself under another LLC? Legally that's 2 entirely separate entities, one hiring the pilot, one hiring the plane.

Maybe i got this wrong but when you said “As a commercial Pilot you can hold out to the public, assuming you are not providing the plane and only piloting”. Would’t that enter to the category of air carrier and would require you to have a 135 certificate? Since you are holding out to the public with the intent of transportation even if it’s not your plane.

Just to clarify, as a CFI I can hold out my business to others even with my flight school including the plane? Or I could even hold our willingness to instruct in my own plane?

For 95% of pilots your commercial rating will allow you to move 1 step closer to your CFI that’s about it

But you CAN be a Private Carrier if you DO NOT HOLD OUT. The position that you can’t offer the plane and the pilot is the answer we are taught because it’s ‘safe’. The AC spends quite a bit of time explaining the ‘Holding Out’ for a reason. Because if you do NOT HOLD OUT, you CAN. If Holding Out didn’t matter… then why have it be a term? If advertising or not, was irrelevant, the whole AC is irrelevant. When in doubt DON’T do it. But if you read the regs and the AC, in it’s entirety, you CAN offer the plane and the pilot, for compensation. But it must be ‘limited’ and you CANNOT HOLD OUT that service. Again, if it was illegal ALL THE TIME, what is the AC defining the limits of? Why do they take so much time explaining Holding Out and Private versus Common Carriage? They do it because you CAN. It’s narrow and limited and tight, but there is a narrow window where you can. The punchline is: DON’T HOLD OUT in any way. If it could be inferred that you’re Holding Out… you’re done. Here’s another ‘test’… If you’re not Holding Out, no one will know. If ‘folks know’ that you’re willing to fly objects or people around to places in your plane for money beyond the pro rats share… you’re Holding Out. For the record… I’m not holding out! I’m not a lawyer by the way. I’m just a random person posting on a RU-vid video. I know nothing.

Just remember, the FAA is there to help......

I just thought I could paid to fly.

Good video. Lots of useful information. Edit and cut out the first 8-10 minutes. They don’t have any useful information.