*Explore MotorInc memberships* at youtube.com/@motorinc/join *Chapters* 00:00:00 Crash Tests & Safety 00:01:11 What's A Crash Test 00:03:00 Lab Test vs The Real World 00:05:00 Accidents vs Crash Tests 00:06:58 Optional Crash Test Ratings 00:10:38 Too Pro Manufacturer? 00:13:26 Are Cars Really Safe? 00:15:14 Ratings Aren't Comprehensive 00:18:49 The Injury Scale 00:22:59 Not User-friendly! 00:24:05 Child Seats Required 00:28:26 You Cause The Crash Part 1 00:32:00 Protect Yourself 00:33:18 Drive Better 00:36:27 Avoid Crashes! 00:37:45 Better Cars Look Worse 00:39:35 Do You Drive Well Enough? 00:41:26 Causing Harm 00:42.54 Really Understand Crash Ratings 00:45:21 Active Safety Matters More 00:46:20 How Safety Progresses 00:52:04 Older Cars and Safety 00:53:29 Do the Hard Thing 00:54:05 Choose To Be Safer 00:55:52 Your Mistake or Theirs? 00:58:30 Not Crashing Is Better! 01:00:33 The Next Episode *Links* _The BNCAP Document via MORTH_ morth.nic.in/sites/default/files/ASI/Draft%20AIS%20197%20.pdf _Crash Ratings vs Accident Data_ www.researchgate.net/publication/49655075_Comparison_Between_Euro_NCAP_Test_Results_and_Real-World_Crash_Data#:~:text=For%20all%20comparisons%2C%205%2Dstar,was%2068%20±%2032%20percent. _or_ www.researchgate.net/publication/49655075_Comparison_Between_Euro_NCAP_Test_Results_and_Real-World_Crash_Data#:~:text=For%20all%20comparisons%2C%205%2Dstar,was%2068%20±%2032%20percent.
Why can't they do crash test by considering the worst case scenario? Why don't standards quote the worst case such as trucks? For medical devices, FDA & ISO ,EU have strict regulations for worst case scenario
@@craveforcinema9560 Because beyond a certain point, 5 and 0 star might perform alike. And that won't be a marketable material for the companies to show their products superior. Also what can be considered a worst case is subjective. Getting under a bus? Crushed under a battle tank? Jumping from cliff to a lake? The moment you consider and standardize one of such conditions is the same moment it gets 'controlled' and becomes a lab test. Real world has many variables playing. One can have a tyre burst resulting in jumping off the cliff, other might be brakes failing, other can be already being hit by a truck. A car's crash safety performance will perform differently at each of these three situations, however they're ending off a cliff in all of these.
Instincts before ego people , the guy who just overtook me stopped at the same light , this happens everyday. If you're in a hurry speeding isn't gonna get you there , speed when you know you can for sure . "your mind has better TC and ABS than any bike / car trust it not your ego " - EX police driver .(not me)
Agreed . Want to add something here- Don't speed ever.. Go at your own pace.. I drive at 60-70kmph in normal traffic as well because that is my usual comfortable speed. I have tested myself a thousand times and I know my limit is around 90-100 kmph in city so I go 10kmph slower. If someone drop from the sky I know I can stop comfortably. Ofcourse there is an if, if I'm not distracted or careless.
What a brilliant episode! This must be shown to everyone who is buying a car! I worked in the legal department of a leading insurance company and was handling third party claims. Basically, I was part of the system that deals with the aftermath of the accidents that happen. A vast majority of the accidents happened because of driver error and I have seen families been destroyed because the driver wasn't careful enough. Simple things like drive 5kmph slower, wear seatbelts, slowdown before making turns, dont rage out when somebody overtook you, etc., will make a massive difference. The five star car may end up saving your life but it won't help you to avoid destroying the family of the other party involved in the crash. Back in 1992, I lost my father to what was a very minor collision between an autorickshaw and a scooter coming out of a petrol bunk. My father was riding pillion on the scooter and if he was wearing helmet, he would have been alive. It's been 32 years since then and i still can't fathom why there are people riding around without helmets. Similarly my uncle got into a crash once and what saved the family were seatbelts. The number of people who drive without seatbelts even today is simply astounding. The crash tests try to figure out what happens in a crash and how a car will perfom in that one set of conditions which have been approximated to mimic what the designers of the test thought was the best approximation. Real world is chaotic. By controling what you can do to avoid getting into a crash, by doing all that you can to drive safely, not just so you can protect yourself and your family or the passengers, but also those around you, you automatically and dramatically reduce the probability of ever needing all those stars. I think there should also be a video where Shumi and Karthikeya can go about a whole bucket list of obvious but absolutely necessary things people can do to to become better drivers, a whole hour of content that after seeing, people can go, damn, that was obvious, why wasnt i doing this in the first place. I think content like this episode and every tip that you guys give for people to become better drivers, will only help in reducing the accidents. Glad I am a member. Thank you once again!
Hey @MrSMK21! Glad you found the podcast episode helpful! Thanks for the suggestion for the better driving oriented podcast/video too! And thank you for our generosity. It means the world to us!
There are two variations of ABC that I try to be mindful of at all times. 1. 'Always Be Cautious" - Be cautious of yourself. Be cautious of others. 2. 'Always Be Caring' - Arguably the more important thought. Be considerate. Be patient. Be kind. Remember that we all have friends, partners, family, jobs, EMIs, rent, dreams and more. And we're all just trying to go from point A to point B. Be it on the road or through life. Thank you for attending my TED talk !
Brilliant stuff Shumi and Kartikey 🙌This piece of content offers a comprehensive overview of the broad topic of automotive safety. Crash tests provide a basic understanding of a car's construction and its potential performance under certain conditions, though these conditions can vary significantly in the real world. The key aspect to focus on in a crash test is the stability of the vehicle's structure. While airbags are valuable additions, the ability of the car's shell to absorb impact is of paramount importance. After observing various crash tests, including some 'sponsored’ ones, a critical question arises for manufacturers: Have they designed their cars to achieve higher scores in crash tests, or to genuinely protect occupants? There have been several real-world crashes involving certain brands where the vehicles have easily toppled. This is just one example of many, but the Global NCAP tests seem to overshadow these crucial aspects of safety. We need to adopt a more holistic view of automotive safety, beyond just the safety ratings.
Insightful! We need conversations about safety to be around roads, infrastructure, rules, fines, potholes, licence tests and so much more… We deserve this with the number of vehicles on our roads and the accidents we have.
Yes but all of these depend on the govt. So talking and expecting things is........... well you know what im gonna say. Just recently, didnt the govt say something along the lines of - driving schools themselves can issue licenses instead of the useless department, sorry, i mean, the rto, and that they wont be responsible for it? That part was funny to me. Was the rto accepting responsibility before?
Guys can you please discuss in a podcast about how bad driving is actually something that contributes to the chaotic traffic jams, higher wear and tear of vehicles, increases overall stress levels and subsequently health of the average citizen? This in turn affects the economy due to poorer health, loss of time with drastically low average speeds/high fuel consumption in our country = lower productivity. Also people go out less due to fears of traffic jams contriburing to businesses struggling. Loss of loved ones in traffic accidents throws families out of financial stability and puts some people into poverty. Some things to be implemented to solve a majority of these problems: * teach the importance of lane discipline/clearly marked lanes * we need to introduce comprehensive driving test overhauls and make everyone recertify themselves over a 7 year period - ideally copy the curriculum of germany. - this is especially necessary for commercial vehicles. * Import road use hygiene/etiquette/culture from the north east. * Also define criteria for submitting complaints with dashcam footage on drivers breaking rules, this will help enforce rules in a decentralised manner. Would be great to listen to you guys discussing this.
The point at 37:10 is such a great one! Taking motorsport as an example, an F1 car crashed at the Marina Bay Street Circuit last year and social media went abuzz saying "Oh my God the car has such poor safety as it looked like it broke into pieces" but little did they know that that was an indicator that the car was doing its job in protecting the driver well and that was the reason the driver walked away with just minor injuries!
Yes that's true, but there is also the difference between a well made crumple zone and just weak front end. What matters is that how much of impact was absorbed and whatever impact force was remaining after that should not reach passengers for it to be serious. For example maruti cars have crumple zone but it is too weak that it can't restrain the impact to itself. This is also a fact that should be considered. So, bad looking car after an accident is good till some point, after that it is really bad
@@vasujadav2772 A car with "weak frontend" aka crumple-zone will protect whilash/spinal cord injuries, the cabin needs to be strong and protect from any direct impact from outside .... that weak-frontend is essentially last line of defense in terms of "Braking" Also , if you think strong/rigid metal bodies makes a safer car , then retrofit some airbags and seatbelt inside ambassador , that'd also get 5-star safety in G-NCAP.
@@ankitsharma203 bro you didn't understand what i said, i said the same thing that crumple zone is necessary but it also should be atleast srong enough to prevent shock from reaching cabin
@@vasujadav2772 but that thing is very difficult to design for example , 1) crumple zone designed for collision of 60kmph will work perfectly at speed from 40-80 , at lower speed it won't crumple but whiplash won't be too serious either 2) a car designed to absorb collision of 100 kmph , will perform well from 80-120 , but in those cars when you collide at slow speed say 60 , you'll have to withstand the whiplash now you have to figure what speed collision you're more likely to be into. and if you happen to be in collision of 100kmph in a 60kmph crumple zone , then you definitely want a strong and rigid cabin to protect you. So all i'm trying to say is I want strong cabins from manufacturer nothing much. BTW crumple zones also slows down "the projectiles" aka loose objects in you car that might impale you.
I just completed my masters in Mass communication & these podcasts does feel like I am attending a lecture on Automobile journalism. The way these guys simplify things & explain every tiny details, is remarkable. Keep going guys , we need such podcasts to educate masses on such topics
@@motorinc Thank you. No I don't have any job in hand right now. I'm looking for one. But before that , for some reason my pancreas is producing too much insulin which is troubling me in my daily routine life , I need to get it sort out first. It's been 3 years like this & just last week I got to know that I might have a small tumor in my pancreas which could be the reason behind overproduction of insulin. I got no choice but to focus on my health first. Oops Oversharing 😅 But thanks guys.
Man! I don’t think we Indians can ever understand the conversation.. You guys are AMAZING! The depth in your knowledge is mind blowing. We are a country where people protest against helmets being mandatory. We think about accidents until it happens in our own family or May be when it happens to us!
A passionate case against an overemphasis on crash test ratings, albeit one that is undermined, in my opinion, by some critical logical flaws and inconsistencies. As a disclaimer, I should point out that neither do I drive a 5-star-rated car, nor is that parameter going to be a deal-breaker (or clincher) for me when buying my next car; I am not personally vested in this debate. One of the main issues I take with your argument is the false dichotomy between prioritising driver skill and relying on safety features. These are not mutually exclusive approaches to road safety. They both can and should play important roles. You may say that you aren't entirely dismissing the value of safety features, but respectfully, I believe your argument overemphasises driver skill to the point of downplaying the relevance of crash test ratings. And that it is being presented as a binary choice. If it is really true that the average Indian car buyer obsesses over crash safety ratings and trivialises the importance of driver skills, it seems to me that you’re just doing the same, but in the opposite direction. What’s more, I contend that your use of statistics and data doesn’t actually support the point that you’re trying to make. You mention that most accidents are caused by driver error, and that most crashes are single-car crashes. Based on this, you argue that driver skill is the most important factor in road safety. But you’re ignoring the base rate - the total number of car trips and driving situations that occur without any accidents. Let's say there are a million car trips in a given year, and a thousand of them result in accidents. And that out of those thousand accidents, 90% are caused by driver error. Sounds like a lot, but it’s actually only 900 out of the total one million trips. The vast majority of trips - 999,100 - didn’t result in any accidents at all, REGARDLESS of driver skill. (Shumi says this himself at some point, but went elsewhere with it.) If we really want use data to understand the role of driver skill in road safety, we need to look at the accident rates for drivers of different skill levels across all trips, not just the proportion of accidents caused by driver error. This doesn't mean that driver skill is unimportant or that we shouldn't strive to improve driver training and education. But it does suggest that focusing solely on driver skill as the primary solution to road safety may be misguided, and I think the statistics again bear me out on this, in more ways than one. For example, the notion that if you're a highly skilled driver, you'll be much less likely to get into an accident - actually, over time, your likelihood of getting into an accident tends to converge towards the average accident rate for all drivers, regardless of your individual skill level. In other words, being a highly skilled driver does not make you immune to regression to the mean. Over time, your accident risk will tend towards the average risk for all drivers. And as Taleb might point out, you’re ignoring the fact that rare events can and do have disproportionate effects on outcomes. Even if the vast majority of accidents are caused by driver error, the rare instances of equipment failure or external factors can still have a catastrophic impact on overall fatalities and injuries. Besides, crash safety features are designed to protect occupants when accidents occur, regardless of the cause. Dismissing their relevance because most crashes are due to driver error is a non-sequitur that ignores the potential benefits these features can provide in mitigating the consequences of accidents. Even if it is true that 90% of accidents are caused by driver error and that most crashes are single-car crashes, dismissing the probability of a vehicle with “superior” safety features (at least, on paper) providing benefits over one with lesser features, seems rather a bit of an overreach. All other things being equal, if a car is involved in a crash, it is reasonable to expect that one with a 5-star crash rating will perform in some measurable way better than one with a 1-star safety rating. That performance delta holds true regardless of whether you’re a highly skilled driver or an atrocious one. And the “5-star safety ratings make you a more careless or reckless driver,” argument is wild! By that logic, you wearing motorcycle safety gear when you ride a motorcycle arguably makes you a more reckless rider. After all, if for some reason, you had to ride the same motorcycle in the same conditions without any safety gear, wouldn’t you ride even more cautiously than you normally do? Ergo, all riders using safety gear are automatically a greater hazard to themselves and others. Seems a bit much. While it's fair to point out potential limitations and flaws in the crash test ratings system, dismissing the entire enterprise of crash testing as a mere marketing ploy doesn’t make your argument more credible. All in all, I think this comes down to some variation of the “the risks I am okay with are sensible, the risks you are okay with are stupid,” argument that is so widely prevalent in the automotive enthusiast community as a whole. Still, a thoroughly engaging and entertaining video (as always), and anything that produces discussion is always welcome. Thank you, and keep going!
@@pchardwareexplorer9695 I did watch the entire video. At no point in my comment did I claim that they said that safety features don't matter, but yes, I take your point: invalidating crash safety ratings may not have been their intention. But if you scroll through the comments on this video, you'll quickly see that regardless of whatever their intention was, the takeaway that a lot of folks seem to be getting from this is, "just ignore crash safety ratings, and focus on being a better driver." Which, look, I embrace on a personal level, but I don't believe that it is an objective and dispassionate point of view. And it's arguably not a great thing to be encouraging drivers to do, because, let's face it, how many of us really do all the things that we know we should be doing? We know we should eat better, we know we should exercise more often, we know we should use gadgets less, we know we should hydrate more, and on and on, but that doesn't stop us from persisting in our habits. Improving one's driving skills is likely no different. In all probability, most of the folks who leave this video aren't suddenly going to buy tickets to fly to a Swiss driving school. But the next time they're buying a car, they might just think, "Those car experts said crash safety ratings don't matter." So, I think it's really debatable whether this advice makes anybody any safer.
Do you think it is sensible to buy car with 0-2 stars crash test rating? I agree that most accidents are avoidable even if you didn't cause it, but all you need is one crash to change your life, right? It is 100% possible to be involved in a potentially fatal crash even you're going under the speed limits and aware of your surroundings. This video has convinced me to get off the crash test craze. IMO at least 3 stars are necessary in accordance with todays standards.
To the most extent i agreed with this podcast. But as soon as you said that Maruti is also good at safety and they need to crumble i lost faith and trust on this video. I have lost friends who had a crash in a maruti car at very slow speeds and they still passed away due to a pedestrian jaywalking. Gone are the days maruthis were good now they are just bad. I dont know how you can even support what maruti is doing now. I dont believe you guys skew views based on if you are paid or not but i just dont agree with maruti being good at safety.
I know some guys who think that driving a car recklessly, overtaking with close calls, speeding unnecessarily is "skills" and when i tell them hey drive carefully, they (not talking about me in the third person) say "don't worry i got this, I'm skilled" or "don't be a p*ssy". As you said, you can buy a car with all the stars for safety but you cannot buy good driving etiquettes
It is Awesome that you guys are taking pains of reading documents and presenting such great quality content.. In the month of April i travelled to Kerela with my wife and son (9 months old) and we carried the car seat with us.. It was a logistic hassle.. I had to pay a bit extra at the airport.. But I didn’t mind it.. We were driving in a rented car with my son in the car seat .. Wife was in the backseat with seatbelt on.. Last month my wife and my son went to her place and the car seat went with them.. Whenever they go out, my son sits in the car seat.. Slowly, there is a cultural change that we are trying to bring in our families by requesting our parents and siblings to wear seatbelts in the rear seat as well.. Sometimes the idea is not taken in the letter and spirit but we continue to insist..
I hope this conversation reaches many people, both of you have done justice to this topic. I would like to also add that, lights, reflectors and mirrors are also very important to safety discussion. Simple, basic maintenance will help us not become active hazards on the street.
This comment is in regard to your next episode. I wanted to thank Shumi and share that i am 22 years old and i had purchased my first bike 2 and half years ago which is the continental gt650. I had learnt riding on a splendor ismart for two weeks and applied for license and went to book the bike. I remember following Shumi for a long time back then and following simplified series particularly. It was watching him and learning from him for years that gave me confidence as well the understanding of what skills i absolutely needed to acquire on a motorcycle, whatever its power may be. Today i can proudly say that my motorcycling journey so far has been a absolute delight and safe. If it wasn’t for shumi ,i wouldn’t have been able to unlock motorcycling to such extent, especially given what the social media is offering to new aspiring young kids in terms of motorcycling content today.
As a data science enthusiast I am very happy that Shumi has spoken about the "correlation" aspect and the backend team has done some extensive study on the data models before saying such conclusions .....Would love to see the dataset from which you derived the conclusion.
My sister had a small crash on her scooter, everyone else was coddling her and I just said understand it’s your mistake and you won’t crash again. She was very upset with me, I’ve sent her a clip of this video now. Hopefully you guys have managed to get through.
Talking about Volvo, they use the highest percentage of Boron In their steel (24%). The boron infused steel makes the steel stronger and protects the passengers during an impact. No data regarding the boron percentage is available for Tata, Mahindra, VW, Škoda etc. (I personally tried to inquire). I also feel that all the electronic safety equipments are just deterrents during and accident. Considering the chaos which we see on Indian roads on a daily basis, manufacturers should start designing the car to withstand passenger safety during an impact, which Volvo does.
So after watching full episode, "I" think I'm convinced that: 1. I need to work on my driving skills to minimise the probability of getting crashed. 2. Crash ratings should not be the final decision making criteria for car buying process. BUT still, I won't be able to neglect crash test ratings if I have a decision to make between two shortlisted vehicles before buying one. Thanks. Be considerate, be patient! ✌🏻
Awesome work guys….. One thing I want to add for example a virtus ( with 5 star) is more likely to perform better in uncontrolled environment than a swift ( 2 star) And is it worth to buy a safer car if it saves you and your family from even a single fatal accident - I think absolutely, I see it as an investment. What do u guys think??? Open to ur views too Thanks again
Thank you for sharing your thoughts @aaditya2401. We firmly believe that the driver's skill comes first and that should always be paid more attention. If you're confident of that, then choose whichever car works best for you.
The sole reason I never got any attachment on the mirror or dashboard like idols or hang anything on th IRVM is that it turns into a projectile during an accident! Read it years ago and it's always stayed with me.
@@Michael-Angh imagine you're cruising at 80kmph in the middle lane on NH 48 and you encounter a broken down stationary truck in the middle of the lane, (this has happened with me btw, I barely avoided collision) and you crash into the back of that truck. Now things have gone from 80kmph to 0kmph in a matter of seconds, so things will fly at you from the front of the car like broken windshield bits AND anything that was kept on the dashboard. So if you had a stone idol on the dashboard, there is a very high chance it will fly at you along with the shards of glass already flying at you. Any such object can hit you or the passenger in critical areas like eyes and skull and a 1000 other damaging ways. Hence it is always recommended to not keep any loose objects around the car. A driver once lost his life because a Bisleri water bottle fell down and lodged itself between the brake pedal and the floor of the car and he couldn't brake!
Its good to have safer cars but it still shouldn't be the most important thing to look for in a car and disregard anything that does not have a rating as the testing methods differ greatly from the actual road situations. A great podcast as usual on a great topic !!
1. 5:20 - Infact in USA, the IIHS was created literally by Insurance companies so that they can force car manufacturers to make safer cars which would in return benefit the Insurance companies, LOL. 2. 11:34 - Tata in Shambles, haha. 3. 26:23 - LMAOO, It's funny to see how Schumi isn't very sensitized but Kartik is. 4. 42:15 - PTSD after a crash is a very real thing and we so often ignore how fragile life is, a split of second is all it takes for someone to just cease to exist.
1. Safer cars do benefit insurance companies - paying for people is a lot more expensive than paying for car parts. 3. Shumi's always messing with Kartikeya 🤣 4. Yes. Spot on!
Tyres are an extremely underrated component of safety. Many people choose the budget option but Tyres are one place where it is okay to splurge. I would greatly appreciate it if you could do a segment on Tyres.
I believe such intellectual talks and topics, awareness programs should be part of a mandatory periodic refresher training to retain the licenses. It might not help instantly, but I’m sure it would definitely have significant impact over a longer period.
Hearing both of you of an hour, really affirm the same thoughts which another RU-vidr : Gagan Choudhary shared in his video. I also believe that driver skills matter much more than the Crash Test Ratings. People don’t put seat belts, don’t have child seats and drive carelessly. These should be marketed more than the crash test ratings. I live in Indore, and hardly see any child seats in any car. These things should be promoted more by authority and car makers. I also feel, dash cams should be installed in every cars. This will make drivers accountable.
The moment a metric (like crash ratings) becomes a goal, it loses the credibility on being an accurate/reliable metric. (Goodhart's Law). People (manufacturers) will start optimising for the metric, rather than the use case.
My 13 year-old Maruti Ritz was involved in an accident last year when a traffic police personnel suddenly stopped vehicles in the fast lane. The car I was following stopped, I screeched to a halt without locking up the wheel (remember the Ritz VXi never had ABS) and the Baleno driver behind me stopped in time too. However, a group of young drivers in their Honda WRV rammed into us from the rear, eventually causing a pile-up accident. My phone on the dashboard holder became a projectile and zoomed past my face to the boot. The car absorbed the impact by defornimg the rear hatch , rear bumper, the bonnet and the frontbumper. Since me and my friend were wearing the seat belts, we came out unscathed. The front passenger in the car behind us wasn't wearing the belt and got injured. Although people in my circle urged me to get a car with airbags, ABS, ADAS and what not, I continue to drive it with utmost caution. I get laughed at/mocked by idiots (both outside and inside the car) for driving like an uncle but I have developed a greater sense of spatial awareness ever since the accident. Mirrors are my friends and nothing stays loose on the dashboard anymore. The same goes for my motorcycle rides, where I prefer to go slow, keep an idea of what's happening behind me, and have total control over the vehicle. Kudos to Schumi and Karthik for speaking up on vehicle safety. As a budding automotive writer, I am glad to see experts discussing these boldly.
I wish u guys would have mentioned the obsession with buying bigger car all over the world not just india (reasons are plenty like showcase of masculinity,towering over smaller vehicles- its a classist pov,safety reason) But the thing is new car buyers will also buy that "bigger" car, then almost all of the cars on the street would be the "bigger" car😂 in the near future.
Just hit me that. If any kind of safety ratings could save people from death , then Paul walker would be still alive. He died in a Porsche. Certainly Porsche cars are much safer then Tata's 5 star rated cars. Yet he died.
Such a necessary video. I have been told so many times that I have got a crap car in terms of safety when I got the Ignis in 2020. Apparently, the door doesn't close with a thud🥲 I have observed keeping calm and being patient on the roads automatically adds 2 stars to the car and the passengers within. It helps in better application of the skills as well and doesn't cloud the judgement through ego.
These experts don't know anything, my grandfather met with an accident in our 2009 Alto, the car managed well in that accident (it was his mistake a careless overtake) he hit a Mahindra major Car crumpled and the safety shell was pretty solid. But the Jeep got its chassis bent, front leaf suspension broken etc, The thing is if we test both these vehicles GNCAP will rate Alto with negative stars and Mahindra a 1 star 😂 but in real world this Alto will be a saviour ❤
I was one of those guys who did consider the crash test until I dug deeper. That being said if these ratings do give me a better car however miniscule I would take it. Would it be the only factor for me to buy no, but I would also not buy a car that is rated less than three. Like you guys have said driving better is living longer. I will attempt to champion that every time I drive a car. Awesome episode.
I like to think I work in a highly educated workplace with people from “premier institutes “ and you know what the first comment from my colleagues was when I said I’m looking to buy a car? Don’t buy Maruti Hyundai Kia Honda their cars are unsafe, go for Tata, Mahindra or the German automakers. All based off safety ratings. Thank you for doing the deep dives for those of us who have never been exposed to much automobile information and conversations.
@@motorinc 🙂 but jokes apart I have had the bad luck of being in some accidents and I know how scary that is. I particularly had two motorcycle accidents within a span of 50 days and that caused me so much trauma that I did not get back onto the motorcycle for about 6-7 months.
I also believe there must be some safety points for braking distance. flickabilty similar to moose test or something. because to avoid crash u need great brakes and greater flickablility.
I think car manufacturers should atleast provide 4 star rated cars with stable bodyshell & also provide programs that spread awareness & improve the skill of the drivers
@@motorinc isn't this whataboutery? Safety regulations are not set in stone, they keep developing. Till the time no one dies in a car crash, there will be improvements. If we are demanding a 4/5 star car FOR NOW, what's wrong with that? Screen sizes inside cars change, does that mean you'll stop people from asking a 10 incher if in the future 15 inches will become standard?
This is the most important session for every car owner. This is covered for old cars and new cars as well. I agree with your safe points. We have to be more vigilant while driving a car. I have been driving my Santro for 13 years and no crash happened. As Karthik said, maintain the car properly. If you take care of your car, it will take care back for sure. It will take you wherever you want safely.
Engrossing conversation as always. A few thoughts 10:34 - Shumi's surprise at test standards aligning with manufacturers' requirements is unexpected. Government regulation often begins with an ideal service of consumer interests and is then cut down to what the industry says it can manage. To be clear, I don't imply any party involved is specifically evil. Just that population based safety standards may work in the aggregate but they aren't meant to save individual lives. Guaranteeing individually specific safety is highly impractical and very expensive. 33:48 - NCAP, ISI, DOT, N95, USB, IPX, CE and infinitely more standards of all kinds end up being used as marketing tools imho. Otherwise, the consortiums of companies that pour money and talent into developing them "in collaboration with" testing bodies would never see returns. Not that it means they're all worthless but it's important to be aware of the possible motivation bias creeping within the structures and implementation of these standards.
I just wanted to fish out the idea of how do you build trust with the maching you're riding. There are instances when people applaud my driving skills but I feel like I was not fully engrossed in driving or or fully aware or maybe even careless. But similarly there are times where I love the way I rode or drove a vehicle only to be let down by the experiences the pillion or the passenger shares. But I do feel like their opinions are a valid datapoint to consider. So, I'm not really sure how I would go about evaluating and tracking (or even pushing safely) my caliber throughout, especially when I come back to my bike in irregular time intervals. PS: Everything's in first person
We appreciate it! 😁 That’s a great question. I’m the first instance it’s reflex at work and probably you will be a smoother and cleaner driver then. In the second instance you are focused in and trying stuff and hence it’s mentally more satisfying. This will be processed by you over a longer time frame and broken into useful inputs. And it will be put to use in reflex next time. It’s in the subconscious state if people find comfort in the way you drive - you are in the right track. Remember - smooth and controlled. Not ragged and rushed. Look for the right feelings.
this topic shines the biggest difference between something like WV/SKODA/FORD where safety is already a given to the point that they never even advertise it and something like TATA where they scream from rooftops how safe their cars are even though they build cars specifically to pass the tests and not for users.
but what happens in india is companies just bring unsafe cars that it becomes important for indian company to scream about safety.... which if u look closer then tata and mahindra did made other companies like renault, hyundai and other companies to bring better safer cars in india at competitive price....
Incorrect - VW markets Taigun as India's safest SUV - its the first thing on their website, the brochure has the Global NCAP rating on page 1. I remember seeing Skoda test drive cars having safest sedan printed on their sides. There may be many things wrong with Tata cars but to say they only scream safety is wrong. They must be appreciated for at least making safety one factor buyers consider while making purchase decision, thereby forcing every other car maker improve their product quality.
I love to ride my Scooter to visit as long as i can complete in one way with full of attention (108 KM in one way till now). I found it like real life game to be concentrated, attentive, ready for quick response while on highways and specially on city roads. I always seems the other rider a stupid in my mind and also consider my action to mitigate any accident on road. It is always helpful to be proactive and rethinking of any scenario like, whether should i overtake this Car, whether my scooter can stop before auto in front stopped randomly, whether i am attentive enogh to ride on highway either on 2nd or 1st lane by keeping the four wheelers far back, while i am riding with co-passenger on my scooter i always thought to be safer enough for both people on road and my co-passenger. I always use Engine Braking which help me to reduce my speed from 60 to 40 and from 80 to 70 and on highways it is always recommended to maintain the speed of that particular lane to be in safer side. Thanks MotorInc for this Podcast, as i will be someday a Car buyer and i should have to be informed all these things before.
Hey Finally a place where I can rant about the harms of quantification of crash test rating I absolutely despise the fact that we have tried to quantify crash test rating because the layman assumes it is the safety rating of the car but its not Also this rating gives a weird false safety net to driver of the vehicle that if there is crash he will not be harmed and will drive less cautiously or become a complete douche-bag. I have just recently started commuting using my scooter and the number of people who fly with their cars in narrow streets is absolutely mind boggling Your advise does help alot of young drivers so never stop this guys. And thanks to your advise Of being "slow and smooth will eventually lead to faster riding or driving" with riding is such a great help (And no unnecessary honking) But yeah now the next advise which I trying to inculcate is that ABC of "Always be caring " At times due to bad mood swings of mine I maybe quite rude but I am working on it. And Kartikeya's advise of imagining the drivers to be your relatives is helping me reach that point. Just Thanking you guys again to guide us young riders and drivers to be better versions of ourselves
There is no age limit buddy. We all assume young riders are the ones who make mistakes. Just come to Hyderabad and see for yourself. The sheer stupidity on the road will drive you crazy.
@@dr.ananthakrishnavemuri733I hear you brother. I see weird ways people crash. My friend I will discuss about what are possibilities to end up like that.
The problem is How much you just blindly trust vs how much you're ready to question things, and also importantly, how much you're willing to accept that you might not be correct. Why is it that people just think these bodies exist for the sole purpose of goodwill of the people, like they have some personal liability to you to ensure your safety? These are organisations run by people. People have their agendas and people want money. Thats not all, far from it rather. So how come when people can just realise this in 2 minutes if they thought about it, but instead majority resorts to: "Tu to tin ka dabba chalata hai 😂, ham desh la loha chalate hai 💪💪😤" Why do people just resort to marketing someone else's business for free? Like people still think bohot gareebi hai etc etc but they refuse to accept money for marketing someone else's brand??
@@motorinc hey guys! you guys brought it up a nice topic in the video, about how drivers think they're much better than they are. Would love to see a discussion about how to drive better. Some things could be explored more in depth in a format like this, for example what is control? What do you do in a certain situation? What are some nuances that we dont think about? Because in this topic, either the videos are great advice but in a foreign country which does not represent our conditions or the video is desi but the points just dont connect well, and sometimes people start treating it like a linear equation math problem. If this -> then you take x and y and do z.
Thank you for talking about this. This episode was a real eye opener. Two takeaways that I think are important: 1. Buy a car irrespective of its "safety rating" as long as it meets your needs. 2. Don't drive like an idiot. If you encounter idiots on the road be patient and let them do their thing.
Hey Anirudh! _Feels safe to you_ and _I'm in control_ is the first layer of the safety evaluation. This will create confident driving, which helps point 2 as well. Then comes the backup plan to this, which can be the safety rating, to some extent.
On that hitting a pole topic, if you guys search for audi RS6 pole accident, ull find out how worse hitting a pole can be depending on the speed at which the car was traveling!
Hello Tata Buyer, I want to you listen to this amazing discussion. Now, you don’t have service, quality, and your 5 star rating as well. Amazing job guys. Now, I don’t know what to buy 😂😂😂
1:00:58 i think brands should have longer test rides lets ok if its paid, dont you think its a great idea let say i want to buy a bike which is 5lakhs and i have decided on two 2 bikes and cannot able to decide one even after test ride cause they asked me to go like 1km of distance assume me paying like 5000 per day on a bike which i have for a day or two i can understand the bike even better, it would help me understand that these would serve my needs? Shumi and karthiyeka YOU ARE GEMS OF AUTOMOTIVE JOURNALISM guys keep doing what you do. Why don't you make a podcast on different powertrains on 2 and 4-wheelers and how different companies are making progress in powertrains What say ?
@@motorinc Please don’t say such a thing, coz u two are the only people delivering really good content and I really hate the way other channels curate and deliver their content.
Just copy the iihs tests Better roads and ban of cv vehicles that don't follow crash worth rules , Fire safety , Roll over tests Also no global ncap will test the lowest vairent if it's their own crash test and only do the test on a specified varient if the crash test is sponsored Also the whole part of challenging a crash test is wrong
In the Indian context, raising the test standard is not a simple decision. In theory, the government could simply change the basic crash test to match, say, the IIHS tests you refer to. The issue is that would make cars safer but also so much more expensive that a lot of people would not upgrade to cars for a few extra years. And if they had to ride two-wheelers in the interim, our cars would be safer, but our population would have less access to them.... therefore, overall, we didn't get better safety as a population
My Mind opened up after I actually witnessed a fatal accident. 2 college lads, drunk and laughing hysterically were speeding on a narrow service road during the afternoon. I was actually maintaining a constant speed of 60 on my Hero Pleasure and they zipped past me. Then I returned from my home to my hostel around 5 in the evening. What I saw that day I cannot forget that. The scooty had crashed into a divider in the same road. The scooty was trashed and flew and landed on the sidewalk. The police surrounded the area and there was blood splattered everywhere like a crime scene. The police stated that the driver crashed into a tree head on and was spot dead "EVEN" tho he was wearing a "Helmet". When I saw the helmet I instantly recognised as to why it didn't protect him. It was a f**king cheap knockoff half faced helmet with ISI mark priced around 400-500 and it's inner was drenched with blood. At that time I was actually wearing a good helmet for my speeds - Vega priced around 1400 but it was a convertible. I went to my room and analysed what I saw. after which I came to the conclusion that even this helmet won't account for much if an impact crash actually happened. And since I was about to be a proud owner of a new bike I deemed that I needed something far much better for what I'm about to drive (XMR 210). The very next day I went to an actual reputed bike accessories store MADBIKER and bought myself a Good MT Thunder 3 Pro helmet (fastener as D-Ring was out of stock) and a pair of Storm 3 Riding Gloves and a Rynox Helium Jacket and a Orazo Riding Boot. I know I'm not the best rider out there. I know other people are also not that good. I just wanted to keep myself as safe as I can. I also still have the Vega helmet and a Studds Gloves for the pillion. I know they aren't the best but atleast they will do something to prevent the unfortunate. The only reason for buying these cheap ones was because I was out of Funds. As soon I get and collect some funds I'm going to upgrade it to something better like a Vega Boult Bunny - 1600-2000 which is one of the best and comfortable ones for the Pillion. One thing you have to live with is that people will definitely make fun of you. My own friends used to make fun of me call me names most notably "Rider Boi" but instead of feeling bad I took it as a Compliment and I was actually happy. This will most definitely happen because the people of our country still prefer to Ride raw cause they think it is what is called being "MACHO". They will put forth reasons like "Why would you drive recklessly that you'd need the gears for safety". Here I always put forth the idea that "There are people worse than us." and I know it goes against Sumi's idea to consider such but It's the truth. So why would I not protect myself if I can. Like I'll always try my best to not cause any problem for others. But I cannot guarantee that they are thinking the same too. But no matter what in the upcoming year I'm most definitely going to attend atleast 1 track event of 2 days of TWO (cause that's all I can Afford right now 😅😅). I feel like all the things I said are much easier to be understood by an Enthusiast rather than the so called "Macho Men" who'd do stunts only for attention. Well Hereby I rest what I had to say and Kudos to Sumi and Motorinc and the Team for actually broadening my horizon and helping me think all possibilities to make myself better and safer.
I would very much like a video where you guys discuss and teach 'How to drive and ride better' for experienced and new drivers/riders. Yes I know going to a track is the preferred option but realistically very few can myself included. I want a solution for the road in the Indian context. Thanks❤
A lighter car can be superleggera or a eco box. The point is to see the focus. You can obviously make cars light and still safe. The problem is when the intent is economy and price sensitivity historically they are not really likely to not be using high strength materials. And no, you need an army’s budget for a tanks fuel, especially seeing that some run on ATF. So that’s out. Also I think the episode is thought provoking, but perhaps needs a follow on how to drive better in every day driving.
Yes but at the scale of a country, should the government scale safety rapidly knowing that this means a very large number of economically not-quite-there people who could afford a slightly less safe car will now be forced to keep riding a _far less safe_ two-wheeler for longer now?
I completed a ~400 km drive yesterday, I wholeheartedly agree it's the driver's skill that matters in terms of safety. I saw rowdy overtaking on highways yesterday. Especially the Konkan route when you reach Mangaon towards Panvel. Cretas/Innovas/Ertigas driving on the wrong side, bullying other cars to yield and accommodate them when a car comes from the other end because they decided they are too royal to be stuck in a traffic jam and can't afford to spend another second following other cars which were waiting patiently for their turn to move ahead. They would constantly honk at you if you didn't give them space to move. This one move encouraged the other drivers to do the same even though they didn't have the skills or a powerful car to make the move happen. I was stuck for almost 1 hour to complete a 3 km stretch on a national highway. What pissed me off more was that the traffic police did not do anything to these guys, it's like being rewarded for putting everyone in danger. sorry for the rant. if you are someone who pulls this move on any roads, please stop.
This Is one eye opening discussion also u missed on the how 5 star is given what are things that it make the car qualify for 5 star . But I agree we need to be good drivers ans also in Kolkata had a accident in Ferrari with 8 airbags still the guy died when the car crashed in pole . Keep this type discussion more good
Amazing content as always, also very true about the point of other drivers.. as rider for over 8 years on both highway and city, I personally feel you can learn the art of anticipation.. Also some rules I follow: 1. Ride fast only when visibility is good. 2. Slow down for all village crossing and intersection and expect someone to crash onto u 3. Before changing lanes or overtaking look at the front tyres of cars ahead to anticipate where they would turn 4. Never road rage or race.. 5. Think of doing it Long term so I can be as safe as possible now.. And some of these rules are learned from u Shumi 😅.. thanks for the teachings..
This Podcast disconnected the myths of crash tests! Never thought about the tests this way - The variables at play. Ofcourse we know the details but putting the pieces of puzzle together, its what changed my perspective. That's what you did in just an hour that I couldn't see through over years. Especially the concept of deformation of the car build and the inertia of the crash being tranmistted to the passengers.....damn that's simple physics and totally makes sense. I think this episode have been phenomenal. I got to learn a hell lot. Superb!!
Great conversation, and liked the conversation. Always be a better driver and always take care of your vehicles keep them serviced and upto date, so that you and the machine are always safe and in good condition. As someone who has driven here and internationally, always be in gear, and drive safe, it will help you to keep on driving more.
Guys this is the most informative and comprehensive video on crash test rating and related facts this deep in India.......❤❤❤ Every indian should watch this video, Motorinc, plz make Hindi translation atleast in hindi / other languages caption and share this video.. on every platform. Absolutely thank you guys, you guys are the real motor journalists... Others are simply explaining lies that the manufacturers have said on their website.
Hey! Thanks for this video. I echo every single reason when you said you being the reason for any crash, and importance being a 5 star driver than a buying a 5 star car. I immediately sent this video to the folks whom i find it difficult to convince the importance of seat belts, to not keep loose materials that could be projectiles. Hopefully they go through this.
A frequent cause of crashes I've observed is vehicle owners not knowing or understanding their vehicles. As Karthik says people drive/ride carelessly without understanding or knowing or predicting their vehicle's capabilities or limits. I had an argument with my boss who had a then brand new Creta vs my Baleno. I told him my car may have a bad crash rating in comparison with his Creta, but I have no intention of driving to crash the car, and hence the car will be as safe if not safer than his Creta. A couple of months later he had a fender bender...
What an amazing discussion!!🎉🎉 I do not miss any of your vedios, everything is so well and deep researched, beautifully conveyed what a lucid beautiful English , qudos to both of you , please.keep same quality for ever,may God bless both of you
This talk is much needed. Beyond a set of certain circumstances, beyond a certain speed, nothing can save anyone. The marketing of star rating is creating a certain false sense of immortality 😅.. which gives birth to a certain elitism in social media online..
Questions/doubts in first time bike buyers episode - 1) Why the huge difference in ccs that first time bike buyer is recommended in the Western countries vs in India ? 2) Why people recommend Duke 390 , a Husqvarna 401 or any sub 400cc bike in USA? 3) Which are the best options for a first time bike buyer in India.....(and why is it DUKE 250 👀?)
An awesome discussion, as always. Very insightful and fun! A few thoughts. 1. 2 very simple ideas that I drive with... Not having a crash is the best way to prevent a crash! And if I behave my self on the road, others will too! 2.We have a lot of jackasses on the road, correct, but a large portion of peole on the road are just not sufficiently trained!! It also has to do with the way we get the driving licence. Absolutely 0 skill, and a stack of crisp paper notes, can still get you a DL these days. These people actually dont make mistakes by being jackasses, they simply can't drive well enough! Imagine a 40yr old lady, who is used to driving to the nearby shops and back, takes her Activa out on the 1km stretch of highway on the way to her kids' PTM! It is a hazard! Training can fix it. Perhaps a periodic renewal of DL by passing a test? 3. No amount of riding gear can ensure i wont die, if i keep on crashing. Similar argument for safety ratings. 4. In India...every one is in a hurry, but still every one is always late!! I am a big culprit of always being late. But I usually dont try to compensate for that on the road. 5. Best safety device on a vehicle is calm, aware mind of the driver. 6. Narcissism on the road kills!!
I have 2022 model xpluse 4v with rally kit fitted from first hour of taking delivey. There was issue with counter shaft when the bike was 6months old and the odo read 6500Kms hence the ASC changed. Today Iwas returning from Chennai and when 5km to Krishnagiri. The same issue happened and the odo read 12700kms. Can you comment why this is happening
@motorInc, Funny thing about Ather saying "Rizta the safer family bike" is all of the safety features are optional and are paid under pro-pack, that includes: TC, Hill Hold, Auto indicators, Fall detection and cut-off.
Im the average joe and i want A SUPREMEMLY RELIABLE car that ll last for 10 years MINIMUM i.e no issues at all niggles etc, and it has to be reasonably safe like the brezza maybe?
I acknowledge the points you discussed. In my opinion, most lab tests are similar to this. There can be improvements, but we need these tests for relative comparison, setting standards, and improving those standards. You may have heard about PCI DSS, FIPS, and Cyberrating. These are certifications for other industries. These certifications are also complex and don't guarantee real-world protection against data breaches, but they help in most cases. In a nutshell, an ISO-marked helmet versus a cheap 50-rupee helmet, a stroller with a 5-point belt versus a 3-point belt, and an ISOFIX seat versus a carry cot are better in most cases. Pedestrian and biker safety is also important. In some test ratings, this is included in the overall rating. I am sure these agencies are listening to influencers like you. We need to encourage points like this. I live in a city like Bangalore, and most people drive responsibly regardless of car ratings.
I think most crashes in India possibly due to following reasons( I mean most doesn't cover every possibility) Drunk driving ( "hey I'm a stable driver when I'm drunk") Sleepy driving. Overspeeding and loosing control. Distracted driving ( mobile phones). My personal options were few small cars with better passive safety, however a better handling one, also my intention was to be a better driver and as patient as possible. But to have passive safety for just in case scenarios. I learnt defensive driving from good RU-vid driving teachers and practice that. - hence polo. (Yes maintaining cost is quite high) but I'm living with it. Another point is maintaining tyres, brakes etc, which in India is yet to come as a culture, to maintain a car by yourself. Because people suddenly see trucks on road stranded and panic brake suddenly crashing into the truck, truck ls carrying metal rods, some are loose etc etc, so many scenarios for anything to go wrong. There are lot of factors that can set in, emotions for example. Rage driving, driving like motorcycles filtering, which can tip a car and cause series of accidents, foggy weather, these places its better to have a passive safety for the car, as a biker as well, but how many people can afford a riding gear as a general commuter, thats tough. Even bikers do real rash driving, which can cause self harm. But 😂 ive experienced back pain after getting bumped in a bumper to bumper traffic where the person forgets to brake in time.😅. Btw its very tought to maintain 1 car gap in Bangalore traffic or anywhere in India because people as soon as they see a gap they will attack it.
50:15 What u said was correct it's balanced ... But why did GNCAP or BNCAP gave a full 5star for child even though the Child Legment was cut down druing the Impact did they really check the points before giving them or a Gimic ?..... did the Structure did not take up the load ? or it got deformed ? why no wants to speak this point ? Ok if TATA is doing the marketing Startegy that's fine but some or other people should be aware of this issues right ? people till date Buying TATA cars are driving seamlessly on roads and some are watching Movies in OTT in the After market screens that are fitted is that what they think they shld behave on road ... 90% of cars i have seen in Banglore are watching IPL while driving the car in the city and in the E-city express flyover and even in the Nice road ..... people are just making shit out of this and other side these Social media Platforms will encourage the TATA cars in every accident instead of speaking what happened in reality ..and people dont want reality until it happens to them in person..... and other point that u mentioned once crashed in the structure again it cant take load ... that was brilliant point hope people will know this point and get in to reality happy Motoring
Just read a news somewhere that Maruti stated giving ESC in base varient in entry level Alto k10 and ither cars,l without and additional cost. Nice steps indeed.
Some things which don't make sense logically/statistically: 1. How you drive matters more than how safe your car is ? Yes If how you drive remains same irrespective of the car, is a safer car better ? Hell yes 2. Why more accidents take place in the sunny day? Because more people drive during that time! It's better to look at per km distance driven data. But if course we don't record such data at all
Like you said here 54:56 , if we are not recognising that we are a bad driver, yeah we will have to worry some day because of a crash or some other thing..but the caveat here is, if I am not given an opportunity to correct myself, how am I going to be a star driver. For example if the abs and traction control are doing most of the work for me, I am just a passenger not putting the efforts to handle the vehicle with more caution and am never going to recognise the mistakes. My only concern was the thought that I am no longer needed to put the enthusiastic motorcyclist mind to work and it is just fairly easy to ride any bike (ofcourse this is not true, but I guess you got the point). I might face some other challenges once I start moving up the CC bigger. But the thought of not being able to enjoy the challenges that we face everyday with the equipment in place is less fun, less exciting and less rewarding... What's your take on this, like how to effectively tackle this situation with all these mechanical and electronic aids being around us?? (Btw, I posted this comment before completing the full video, after listening to the last thing that Shumi said I was so happy that I put a big comment and the man he himself is going to craft a reply for me..hopefully 🤞❤😅)
