What Do You Think About Ratty Musclecars? MCM Shop Talk 

I've had gorgeous Mopars that had full blown restorations and was more afraid to drive them, especially to a show with baby strollers and people all over the cars. I've also had Mopars budget paint, bubbles in the quarters and rockers but run like a bat out of hell and have had more fun with them. In the end, its your car and budget so do what you want. I think you get more enjoyment out of driving them than a perfect body/paint car just sitting there.

Ultimately, sure, everyone want a beautiful car. My mantra is get it running and driving then make it pretty. A LOT of people pass by a ratty looking car, but sometimes, they miss the muscle that lies in the drivetrain. I had a 70 road runner in the 80s and the Q-panels would wave to you on the way past. 12.80s in the quarter mile with a 440 w/headers and a manual/automatic 727....

Kevin, I totally agree with you! You know my Challenger. We Painted it. I built the Engine. I have driven this Car almost 40,000 since It was finished. It has blemishes. But I built it to be a Road Car. I don't care for a "Rust Patina". I don't bother to look and I've been a Show Car Judge for 30+ years. Have a Good Day, Stan

My friend has a 69 Charger, interior and running gear all done but body and paint are original- he loves to drive it because he’s not scared of dings or scratches and it is cool! I have a 64 Chrysler New Yorker wagon, survivor, very tidy paint and although i’m not afraid to drive it, I am cautious! So I think having a mint paint job can discourage some from want to drive their cars. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Completely agree with you, ratty just doesn't look finished, and I know tons of people are ok with it, if I see it at a car show, I just walk in by.

I agree with you. You change everything else, paint the damn thing!

Thank you! I own the Miami vice GTX, since 1979, she runs strong and looks like a barn find... Older restoration from 1984 ... At what point do you take the plunge? I would like to restomod this car but she's solid, numbers matching, and yes for those not familiar , it's a convertible 4 speed. Where does it all go ?

Junky or not, the old muscle cars are so freaking amazing!!!! I love them!!!

My thoughts, everyone is passionate about different things. The person you were debating with cared more about the mechanics of the vehicle. I think that if you are going to restore a vehicle, restore the whole thing!

A friend of mine has a beautiful, correct, all the details-even stampings, etc 70 383 Roadrunner. He picked up another 70 Roadrunner, 440 6bbl (I don't know the VIN other than it was originally a 383 car) I have a real V-code 70 Roadrunner, but while the 71 440 6bbl has the 6bbl parts in and on it, it obviously isn't numbers matching, and that's my preference for a number of reasons. Anyway, since he has a beautiful factory correct 70 Roadrunner, and I know how strong and competitive a 440 6bbl can be, I told him I'd leave it the B5 Blue factory patina laden (but not rusty) finish, build the engine with stealthy parts, and go kick some ass, and win some money! He's going another route and that's his choice, but man! what an opportunity to have a really cool, presentable and powerful time capsule that could have been a street/strip terror money maker.

Paint and body work should be last last last! I’ve had my car towed home more times than I can count for electrical issues, engine failures, and more but never for a lot ding or paint chip. When you’re I to making cars fun, the word “perfect” has to be sacrificed and to me, paint and bodywork goes at the back of the line.

I agree 100% with what you said. I "practice " painted my daughters car, runs, cracks, peeling paint, yep I made all those things happen but I still painted my Javelin, Challenger and Desoto anyway and did the metal work. Did I have to redo some of it, yep, sure did. Over all they look great for drivers and even up close they still look good. Saved who knows how much and can say I did that! You can paint your own car 10 times for what it cost at restoration shop so why not go ahead and learn? I messed up the Javelin so bad I had to sand and do it again, but with a rebuilt motor and interior it never occurred to me to leave the paint looking old.

I have an 80 Aspen R/T thats not quite as ratty but it has its dings, dents and unfinished small repaired rust patches here and there with flat black spray painted spots(factory night watch blue original paint) and it gets many good compliments and stares! It has a hot 340-4 under the hood and things get added on here and there! Its great fun to build a car the way you want it with the owners personality and unfinished touch!

To each their own for sure and access to $$$ has a big impact on how the build goes. But agreed. If you got the money for the rest of the build, lay down some paint

For me the ratty style appeals to me because I’m hard on cars and if I were to finish the body perfectly it would just get torn up. I like the fun factor of driving it and not have to worry about the body getting imperfections. That’s what’s great about cars though, there’s a place for finished show pieces and a place for off road driven junkers.

I can see what you mean about finishing it; for me, to put it simply, it's like my boots. I'm going to keep them cleaned & conditioned, but I love to see how the leather wears & how it changes with time. You change things like the suspension & engine so it runs right, it rides how you want, but the body is all about the appearance. I don't care if you have no panels on the car, it can still function as it should, & the sheet metal can show the car's life, without affecting performance. As corny as it may seem, in a way, it's also a triumphant/respectful nod to mother nature. To have something the elements have tried to take, just as the millions prior; with that appearance, but to function so well, that's what brings the satisfaction. There are tons of perfectly restored cars, but not many that actually show their age. Survivors are beautiful, & they usually have great stories, but if you can't drive them, no one will ever even see them, let alone hear the tales.

Well, the ‘72 Duster in this video is mine, so that’ll tell ya which way I lean. Lol I love and appreciate fully restored/painted muscle cars, I just really don’t like spending the time cleaning/detailing vehicles. In my personal experience, I find cars are much more fun to drive and thrash on when I’m not worried about the paint.

I agree to a point. It would be a boring hobby if everyone's taste was the same. Me, I am a go all the way guy. I want my mopars to at least attract someone who notices the exterior as well as everything else. Guess it goes back to my father. My 2 brothers and I had to keep our cars clean if we expected to drive them. Learned that by washing mine in 40 degrees so I could drive it to school. I love them all but for me personally I respect the brand and want it to look somewhat like it did when it was born.

I agree .it all comes with the hobby. As one gets there fingers in it. I know guess that paint and will not touch the drive train. Don't be afraid of messing it up or what people think.

I say a shiny paint job is the way to go.

I think this is a very personal issue, I agree with Chris as it relates to his cars and mentality however I would say that there is a place for both styles. I painted my Challenger and my Cuda, the Challenger was a very steep learning curve since I had not done body repair or paint in over 20 years (and even then I was a novice). On my Cuda I really focused on doing it well and right and am very pleased with the outcome (had to paint it 3 times to get it right). My next project is my 71 charger and I am leaning very hard to leave it in patina but it is a B5 car and has 1 red fender as well as a new quarter, hood and lower quarter (all in E coat) so in all realty I will most likely paint it as well. My point being is that IMO if the car is all the same with patina then its cool, if it is all mismatched well then thats just a personal choice. I will say that for me at least, I would drive a patina'd car much more than a nicely painted one as I would not worry about the paint. I will say this though, IMO a bad paint job is far worse than a car with patina and I do agree with Chris that the patina does convey a story to a degree despite all of the internal upgrades.

I've had a nice paint job, and got a hit and run. If the car has no sentimental value, my priority is motor/tranny, suspension, then interior. Rotten panels will go last, and paint is optional. I enjoy a ratty look, but more specifically the peace of mind of not worrying about scratches. If I get a car painted, it'll be a cheap job. I can use 15-20k to buy another good, running project. That's my opinion. Painted cars look beautiful. I have 6 muscle cars. If I only had one, sure, make it beautiful.

I think there has to be a middle ground somewhere between the rusted out car and the fully restored cars. I am a big supporter of the ratty muscle cars, just look at my profile, and I love having it be somewhat unsuspecting with the power and drive train underneath. But I also see what you are saying about the cars deserving to be finished. I just think that the real disconnect comes when it goes between guys who have so much fun with the car as a ratty driver, to then having the image of trailer queens belonging to stuck up guys who think a car has to be an RT or a Hemi to be worth even looking at. If guys realize there can be somewhere in between, I think you’ll see the ratty phase run it’s course. The other thing is, a “cheapy” 3k paint job is more than a lot of guys pick the cars up for.

Obviously doing paint and body is probably the most time consuming part of a build. And if it means I see more old cars on the road that people are enjoying I’m all for them just getting them running right and not worrying about paint. I do feel like more people should attempt paint work themselves though. Who cares if it doesn’t come out perfect, they weren’t perfect from the factory.

I find it absolutely HILARIOUS this "RATTY/SURVIVOR" issue is being discussed ? Mainly because, I own what would probably be considered the exact opposite for comparison purposes to Junkerups 'Ratty" '69 Charger ? Let's compare the complete opposites, being Chris Birdsong's "Ratty" Vrs my own '69 R/T SE NON-survivor(depending on definition of the word) Junkerup's "ratty" is outwardly appearance-wise, a completely stock/original/survivor type Car to most....however, from a mechanical/drivetrain perspective, it is completely reworked/modern and a FANTASTIC example, GREAT CAR ! Chris has done a remarkable job in the process of maintaining that genre to very strictly outward 'appearance' ! and the COMPLETE OPPOSITE to the above..... Being my own '69 Charger R/T SE, that except for a 1983 exterior only repaint(no door jambs or anything else), and the front Bucket Seat inlays resewn .... is still in it's completely original state with UN-Rebuilt 440 Magnum/Auto(numbers), original Exhaust System, UN-touched, UN-molested and UN-restored with most all original Parts/factory solid Sheet Metal except Hoses, Belts and normal maintenance stuff changed over it's 53 years ? Even the damn window felts are still in pristine condition ? I don't believe there is any definitive answers in the majority that would settle the above as to 'criterion' for BEST ? All I do know.... that as long as they are being DRIVEN, Enjoyed, and being shared with others ? they are all GREAT !

The main problem is non-car people see an old ratty looking car and think wow that's a piece of junk. It doesn't matter if the car is 100% good inside under the hood and underneath. The old saying goes, perception is reality, to me if you leave it five different colors and rust spots that's just being lazy. I think the least you can do is sand everything down and prime it one color. At least it means you are getting ready to maybe paint it or do the body work. Also it keeps the body from deteriorating more. The ones that really crack me up are the people that clear over a very old rusty patina car and think that's cool. If you're going to do all that you could have just Prime the thing

I agree , IMO , the outside reflects the personality of the owner . It also says if the outside is a rat , what about the inside ? some rats aren't even washed . Just like the owners . I took 16 years to get my Scamp the way it is now and I'm not afraid to drive it . If it gets hurt I can live with it . some say it's the money . I say , if that's your priority then get another hobby . You wouldn't put your wife and family in a rat and drive across country . well , maybe you would !

Ratty muscle will always have a place just like actors like Ron Pearlman or Sly Stallone are seen as tough guys even though they’re old and wrinkled.

My car is a 64 Polara. Power train has all been changed and upgraded. Wiring all replaced and upgraded. Interior all replaced. Does it need a new paint job and some body work. Sure it does. But I truly don’t give a rats ass what other people think of what she looks like. I love my car and that’s all that matters.

Hello Kevin thank you for putting the RU-vid video out to the Mopar mases and your subscribers like me. It is my humble opinion that Ratty Muscle cars have a place in the automotive world of proud ownership. Growing up in the Motor City beginning in the sixties and beyond I have attended the Detroit Auto Show and Detroit Autorama throughout the decades and you "will not see" Ratty Muscle cars at either event. Furthermore, I have attended the Woodward Dream Cruise on and off since it debuted in 1995. The event began with vintage classic cars and classic muscle cars cruising up and down Woodward Avenue. However, in the beginning I recall the majority of those classics being in good to excellent shape. As the annual event approaches its 27th year I can't help but to mention how it has lost its original luster. The 2021 Woodward Dream Cruise is a prime example of what I am referring to. I was somewhat disappointed by the fact that people are now using this popular annual event to showcase anything but classics cars and trucks. Some people are drawing attention to what they feel is a classic, taking away from the excitement of that Dream Cruise crowd lined up along Woodward Avenue to see classic cars and classic trucks waving, taking pics, giving you a thumbs up, or even holding up a number generally from 1 to 10 to show appreciation. I recall the days when the right two lanes were for the classic cars and trucks only with road signs clearly stating that. Woodward Avenue consists of four lanes going North as well as South. Now I see everything but classics clogging up the right two lanes and causing traffic jams along the way. Last year I saw three wheeled motor vehicles, rusted damaged vehicles, and even mopeds in those two lanes originally intended for the four wheeled classics. I have appreciation for all motorized vehicles I owned a classic motorcycle for 37 years. To sum it up, it is my humble opinion that there is a place for Ratty Muscle cars and proud owners should consider organizing car clubs for just Ratty Muscle cars. Please don’t take my comments to heart as it is not my intention to annoy anyone or any group of individuals with my comments. Lastly, I want to again thank Ryan Brutt for taking that memorable pic of my Mopar at the 2021 Woodward Dream Cruise and those responsible for showcasing it in the Mopar Connection Magazine. Oh and thank you Kevin Shaw for the opportunity to openly add my comments to your question. John T.

it's a stylistic preference. some of us prefer our movie stars au naturelle.

Not into ratty builds. It’s not impressive and I don’t really care about seeing the years scratches dings and rust. I like my cars lookin sounding and performing beautiful.

Having owned one rusty Chevelle a rusty Camaro and a rusty ChevyII, I'll tell you straight up. I hate rust as much as I detest Neil Young. Rust is a deal breaker even if you have a solid engine and powertrain. The only Chryslers I owned. A minivan and Ram, were rust freee specimens. They were solid. Upon moving from a small town to a city outside a metroplex, the number of dings, scrapes and dents in parking lots increased exponentially. So in a way, I am happy I don't own a muscle car anymore. Driving an18 year old beater economy car that has every subsystem except for the drivetrain failing. Clear coat looks like permafrost.

Ratty ? No. Since when is ugly preferred over beautiful. If a guy only wants a place to hold his drive train, buy a new kit car. Lets save the old cars and do it right, or not at all. I hate patina.