CIG should let players man a few different posts on the UEES Warhammer when it does the events. Would be awesome manning one of the point defense guns.
Will be interesting to see what it really takes to fill these ships. Especially when you consider an Idris with 90 crew is described as still feeling somewhat “empty”.
I like to think there will be events where a capital ship flown by game devs will spearhead an in game event that leaves an open door to entire servers to participate in a massive high action mission. How cool would it be to have a full player crew running every part of a ship in a pitch battle and scripted event.
@@ProtagInist 💯 would be great to see large scale combat events that push all of us to our limits and large numbers of the community to work together. I’m all in.
I'm going to be that guy for a moment and comment i'd like to see the basics like the ships kitchen/bathroom areas finally have a purpose and drone implemented before they start adding even more ships to the roster. Ships from the Carrack to the smaller 300i series have a ton of neat little quality of life features that sit completely unused and neglected by CIG in favor of them adding more ships that have the same, if not more, features that go ignored. If they can't even complete all the promised features in the smaller starter ships i have no hope they'll ever make the capitol class ships worth the asking price. At this point there's no functional differences between the Pisces and the Nomad despite the fact the Nomad has an entire section of the ship solely dedicated to quality of life that does little more then look kind of neat right now.
I'd rather see ships like the Polaris, Galaxy and Perseus added before we get Pyro. Yes the Carrack requires features to be finished but I still want my Perseus for Pyro.
@@HunterSteel29 i still dont think we will see those capital ships until server meshing is implemented. What good will a 20+ crew ship be when the max a server handles is 110?
My biggest ship in my line up will be the Perseus, but I got a couple clan mates who have either the Kraken or the Javelin so, that would be exciting :D
Re: manning turrets One of my most distinct Star Citizen memories was gunning for you when you kitted out your loaner Hammerhead with all ballistic gatlings. I still hear the BRRRT in my dreams.....
Based on hired NPC ability necesssities, CIG would have to hard-block people from running a Javelin with a full NPC crew. Sure, we would have to examine whether this could make a single player too powerful and a menace. That is probably the main concern. But such an approach would also mean that if a capship is heard menacing somewhere, others would appear quickly, and imagine what a fully player-crewed Idris could do against an effectively virtually fully NPC controlled Javelin. NPCs should be able to do the various jobs needed to run a ship, but maybe not very well. And while there was talk of NPCs of different skill levels, there still needs to be a sufficient appeal to team up with players instead. Agentsmithing could become quite interesting if implemented, where a player can decide to embody a present NPC and take over the duties.
For the boring tasks on ships, you can assign NPCs. While the players do other things like maintain their fighter ships. You only need to man the turrets when under attack anyway. In passive gameplay, NPCs can man the turrets and players should be able to kick them out and take over on the fly. As for the long walks around the ship, an easy fix would be to add golf carts on every floor. At least two and a parking area for them at each end of the floors. Perhaps the parking area can dismantle a golf cart on one end and reconstruct it on the other end if there are no carts on one side.
Hey Farrister. Loved the video. The Javelin is a big beautiful ship. I have to admit, I personally believe it is for large crews only, and would be perfect as an operating base for Orgs. I know private players may own them, but they should only be operated as multiplayer ships. I guess that's my 2 cents/shillings. Thanks for the video, and keep up the good work. Take care, fly safe, and I'll see you in the verse.
I’ve been wondering how an org uses a Javelin as a base, given that its hangar isn’t all that large. Seems like the Idris, with its massive interior hangar, is a better bet, with the Javelin being the large org’s ass-kicker for major engagements.
incredible shots and great narration and points raised. Though I won't ever go above ships I can't reasonably solo, having some baseline knowledge of the javelin will come in handy given volunteering as crew for one might be a competitive process, given it's repute.
though, there are times when I think about getting the perseus, only to name it HMS Warspite/USS Johnston. These ships are incredibly out of my reach in terms of their pledge cost, but im at ease with the fact that atleast someone will name ships to give homage to legends out here in the real world. Even the Kamchatka counts.
I can't imagine crewing anything bigger than a Polaris, and even that has me wondering if the medium sized ships are more my jam. Still, it's going to be interesting to see these in game!
Thats why i chose the Galaxy. Something me and my 3 friends and maybe 1 or 2 other random org helpers can really take care of where we wont have to seriously consider having random egos aboard.
In case anyone was confused, the hammerhead isn't meant to be a capital ship - polaris is the smallest capital ship - so when Farrister says that the hammerhead doesn't feel like a true capital ship, that's by design. Hammerhead's more of a gunboat/patrol boat-type vessel. Love the chill vibes, Farrister - keep up the great videos!
I think the engineering tech should be simple, they really need to sacrifice something from sophisticated systems they've already introduced regarding engineer tech. Maybe have it as simple as, do repairs on specific parts of the ship, do mini-games like electric cord matching for wiring systems, and maybe even mini-games on engineer terminals for shield tech. Sometimes simple works, and thats all that is really needed.
I would happily be a repair or maintenance crewman on a capital ship. In every other game I've played where that's a role I can be I've loved being the guy that makes sure everything is working as it should so we can stay in the fight longer. Barotrauma, Sea of Thieves, Blackwake, Guns of Icarus, and others have all let me shine as a repairman while the rest of the crew worries about piloting or trigger pulling.
I sense when large capital ships are actually ingame. The large orgs will attempt to make full crews to man them. While the most common large ships will be Polaris, Perseus, idris, etc. Javilins, Bengals, krakens, etc. There will be more for large organizations to use as mobile homebases/ military gameplay. For example, I imagine krakens will be mobile pirate raiding bases. For orgs like Mongrels. While more "militia" orgs will use Javilins as their main anti piracy flagships on patrols. While most small orgs or group of friends won't go larger than the idris as their flagship during gameplay.
Some of the playable caps are SQ ships and mostly done already. We can steal the NPC Idris for partial use and the VS teaser showed its interior which has the same assets reused in the Javelin interior which is also in engine already as a functional NPC. The bigger problem is gameplay systems and server handling NPC and players working together in scale reliably. We have to remember too PU exclusive content only gets 25% of the dev resources until SQ is done. That seems to be getting closer with attention shifting to NPE and AC and taking it out of the webstore for preorder. Once the devs are not 75/25 divided in attention the time calculus will likely change. AC is also getting cap ships NPC fights and may be a testbed for capital gameplay before being unleashed on the PU since new AC supports multicrew ships. The BMM and Polaris are partly along as well. Most of the other big caps are NPC only or tied to a game mechanic that doesn't exist yet but will appear together for testing it. It is going to be interesting to see how it plays out. I want to be a helmsman or engineer on caps someday.
As much as I am looking forward to these capital ships and watching them in space I just don't think I'm quite ready to spend time with people that don't share the same view for these said ships. I'm to old for their drama. Great vid as usual Farrister!! Top Notch and lots of great view points. Keep them coming buddy. You're going to have to show me your game settings, because of you I'm running 4k as well however it doesn't look that good...lol
I look forward to the day when we can fully crew a massive ship like that. But only if the server won't be negatively impacted by it. Hopefully server stability is focused on first before releasing capital ships like that. Thank you for another fantastic video, Farrister!
I wonder if there will be some sort of Javelin sized commercial capital ships at some point. Would be cool to see something that works like a spacestation, but could travel around a bit mostly just to change the location.
@@Farrister I was thinking more something that offers services and such rather than just a cargo ship. I guess Hull E could be longer that Javelin, but I doubt it's much larger otherwise than the rest of the Hull series.
There technically already is with the Merchantman as it will have a marketplace within the ship. The Kraken is another with the option to swap in a marketplace module.
@@OmegaZyion Far from the size of a Javelin and space stations though, but otherwise yes. Personally I'm not a fan of alien ships so not planning to go for the Merchantman but Privateer maybe.
I think the upcoming update to Arena Commander, may provide an even better sneak peak to how these capital ships will play in the PU. I actually look forward to the new pirate swarm as it its a full on capital ship battle, I hope that CIG would also gradually introduce boarding actions in these modes in arena commander, it will be a great way for the players and the developers to see how players navigate these spaces in actual combat gameplay and would even be an even better test bed for the resource management side of ships. Capital ships have been around for an entire decade and I believe CIG owes it to its backers to start production of one or two of these ships and introduce them into the PU. Now they just have to find a way to create a polished server integration to allow all of these ships to be finally released and enjoyed by the community. Excellent video as always.
When it comes to capital ships, I'm most concerned about gameplay supporting use of them. Sure, you can set up big capital ship fights with other players, but there's still a need for daily use-cases for capital ships. My pipe dream for capital ships in SC is going on expeditions: An org loads up onto their capital ship with a few smaller ships landed inside, sets a route, and spends the next few (real life) days bed-logging on the capital ship, logging back in on it, sending out a crew in a smaller ship here or there, and stopping at various places to do missions/mining/trading/etc. I'm not sure what theoretical gameplay loops or mechanics could support this (other than cargo hauling, to an extent), but I really hope to see something like it some day.
CIG definitely should consider allowing some bigger ships like this to be crewed by AI to some capacity. Let players purchase/rent crewmen that can man guns, and possibly do other stuff around the ship, like security. I know it isn't ideal, but I seriously don't see even 50 people being able to properly man these things to their full potential without lagging the server.
@@Farrister when the server player cap is 100 and the ship requires 80 I kind of don't see this being a reality, even for big groups the ship would feel pretty empty and/or buggy.
I think even with the ideas of NPC's, a Javelin requiring a team of people is reasonable. Think of it like this. The Captain, Co-Pilot(s) and Turret gunners would mostly have to be players. While Damage control, and security staff are NPC's. Maybe even requiring a couple of players to send orders.
Imagine a real large military ship on duty: how boring, repetitive and scheduled the task of the ship and the crew must be 99% of the times. Even it's location, role, orders from the admiralty would massively constrain the role of such ships, given the investment in material and manpower they require. These big capital ships have roles to fulfill as they have to pay off for the resources they drain. As a pirate, where could you hide and maintain such massive vessels as the Kraken or the Javelin? In the Caribbeans, pirates often prefer smaller and faster ships to large galleons an line ship, as they made them less predictable and more flexible. I appreciate the ability to be part of a large vessel crew in game, interacting with other players, but this is not the role intended for players as these ships, outside of the UEE, are just there to show off, becoming massive pinatas when not escorted by smaller and more agile ships to counter hidden menaces, which brings the question of how many crews do you actually need to make these ships effective? The same is true for very large transport ships: how many players, willingly, will travel together doing very little to bring their cargo from A to B at very long distances? Even now people complains of Bolon and Kama Quantum Drives being too slow and getting bored because of the time to kill during travel from Microtech to Orison. Imagine traveling from Orison to Pyro on a slow QD, due to fuel economy and much larger distances to cover. How many players will happily stay for days inside a Hull E or a BMM? What about mining in a Orion? How many will take their place as crewmen inside a Carrack or a Odyssey travelling to, across and from distant star systems? Don't let the "dream" take over, and stay within the size you can manage and enjoy before dishing out thousand of $ into ships that will, in the end, stay in port and drain you of all your credits. Remember: once we'll have to pay for insurance, hangars, and crewmen when the game finally will allow for that kind of gameplay. These ships cannot just sit there doing nothing and eating your capital You might enjoy a very fat wallet, but you will have to pay in UEC once the game get released.
Capital ships should act as "starbases" or homebases for orgs. Not meant to be flown all the time. But to be stationed somewhere in the universe, so the org can load up, enjoy the game in smaller ships etc. Once fully loaded, it can head back to known space and sell off. Maybe. And in case of war. The corp can issue a call to arms so people can log on and defend the ship
Star Citizen may have fundamental issues which may never be fully solved, but there's no doubt that it has some of the best design ever in a videogame. Even the UI is beautiful.
the real multi crew coming sure looks set to evolve things. Hopefully the game doesn't get more difficult (to make) as more goes in. Kinda starting to seem that way. Despite the amount of awesome tools.
Not only that but how are you going to find 50 plus people to just man turrets or do some engineering to adjust engines or whatever their plan is with that. When all 50 of those players have their OWN ships they could be off doing stuff in (and making more money with most likely) plus all 50 are gonna be stuck there for hours especially with how slowly capital ships will be moving. I highly doubt it's feasible.
even if we can have NPC's just to fill the ship up to make it feel full But I thing Org's will have Cap ships what they will use it for only time will tell
Personally, I feel Capital ships will likely be something (true capital ships because ships like the Reclaimer, 890, Carrack, Polaris, Perseus and Galaxy are NOT capital ships. Ships like the Idris, Javelin and the Bengal are basically the only real capital ships in the game.) that only medium sized, to large to gigantic orgs would be able to operate. The Javelin is the largest ship a player can buy in-game (eventually) and on the shop. At 500m long, she's huge, that's 200m longer than the largest modern warships today. The logistics of keeping her supplied and maintained will be a nightmare, she'll literally require an org have a dedicated transport division just to ensure the shipping of materials, ammunition (missiles, flares and ballistic projectiles), food and other things necessary for operating her. Not only that but she'll need a decent escort (at least one Idris, a Perseus or two and a couple of hammerheads) to ensure that she doesn't get swarmed by smaller ships. For example, an Idris might require at minimum a 50 player org to keep it running, while the Jav might require at the very least a 100 player org. Losing a Javelin would be immensely painful for any Org as well. So if people were dreaming of flying a Jav, you'll need a gigantic org for her. Her escorts can be arranged by having multiple orgs get together to form a taskforce, especially if the plans CIG has actually move forward and there will be areas where active fighting against the Vanduul are a thing. An Idris is more realistic for most Orgs (most notable orgs for big content creators like Bored Gamer/SMB/SaltEMike/Olli43 etc... will likely be in the scale necessary for a Javelin.) and even then, an Idris will be the limit for them. Would be nice to get an actual Corvette in the game (Idris used to be one but was upgraded to a Frigate when she ballooned in size from 150m to the 250m she is now.) since a Corvette would be the most accessible capital ships for your more common 15 to 20 player orgs. But if I had to take a guess as to which warships would be more common, I'd wager ships like the Perseus, Polaris and Hammerhead would be since they can be made to work with just 10 player orgs, you don't need a dedicated logistics department for them as they can easily dock with most space stations and land at most landing zones to be loaded with their necessary materials, aren't titanic and losing one won't be as painful, especially if the org leader has lifetime insurance on one. I'm especially looking forward to the Perseus, since a 10 person org is doable for me and a Perseus is within my wallet's price range as well.
two a year gets even more depressing when you realize they basically said the Merchantman is considered a capital ship for dev purposes, your grandkids might see v1.0
Just throwing this in. Potential use case for Capital ships, can be as if it was a dungeon / raid / instance. Much like (I think) I've seen from Orison getting invaded. You can have events, call outs for needing gunners/medics/boarding personell missions, where players show up, board the Javelin, man posts, and then the ship controlled by the Navy (NPC - A.I.) go out to face an invading alien force detected entering the solar system you are in. Quantum jumping to the location they are coming (real time, anyone nearby not on the mission/event, can also parttake, or should gtfo to not be blasted) Mission being rewarded - payed for their service and bravery. This is something that is VERY doable in multiplayer. Does require stabile server fps though. (played on a server today, 25-30 Avarage server fps for 5 hours..! It was like we were on a private server)
Pretty sure NPC Crew is a requirement for capitals. CIG probably holding out until their AI ramps up. Altho I dunno why it's so hard to copy paste NPCs on enemy turrets onto player turret controls. That would be a very basic start, and give IMMEDIATE access to these big ships!
My prediction: crew requirements will be reduced as much as possible and most of the ship will be filled with npcs. It's simply not reasonable to fill a ship with 80 players or however large the crew size is supposed to be, even if server meshing somehow works out perfectly. RP orgs aside, it's not cost effective to fully crew a ship like the javelin with only players of which most would assume rather mundane roles, when said players could instead be used to crew an entire fleet of smaller ships and thus have a much bigger impact in org battles.
It would be nice if CIG would include minor ship crew, such as janitors, cooks, minor cargo/maintenance and other filler NPC, with every Large/Cap size ship. The size ship would determine the # for each slot/job filled and could only be for that specific predetermined roll, just like a component of the ship. NOT turret gunners, pilots, main engineer ect. those you would have to pay as you would normally.
Capital Ships WILL require a mix, of NPC and Players as Crew. NPC will most like do the 'routine' work of a Crew on a Capital Ship, while Players will fill certain 'dynamic' decision making roles.
I imagine AI crew will be very limited, and each player can likely have a set amount (possibly only a couple). On board a large ship, I suspect that it's not just the shipowner's AI crew that will be utilised, but that of the other players too. We don't know if they'll have sandbox routines with them, but I suspect that might be a thing too, to limit their usage, and make managing them more difficulty, so one can't simply station an NPC in a turret permanently. Even if it were possible to fill a ship with AI, that would be a huge risk, as CIG have said that real players will be superior in every way (understandably).
Capital ships need personal transport vehicles.. reckon eScoots and hoverboards should be around in 2953.. unless the UEE has a fetish to make everyone run around..😂
Star citizen is a game that will be ready in at least 10+ years , that’s not a bad thing due what scale it wants to be, and once it is ready those who hate on it now will see how wrong they are about the fact it is good, and as time goes more and more people are hating it less for what it is. Bigger ships are suppose to be bigger crews it much similar to a real life ship, there not ment for 1 person or a few there ment to be a military tool with the purpose of use with military. Saying it’s clunky or I get lost in the ship, means your not living inside it. It’s a day and night rotating crew ship not a ooo ima capital today and not tommirow its going to be a daily work grind to play and enjoy a capital ship the best fighting and competing capital will be the one with a full millsim crew who are role playing there job they are assigned and following communication rules and rank systems. Capital ships are specifically for role play players in large organized units, take pulsar where you cap at a crew of 5 and the ships are only so big to match them, these sc capitals are ment for 20+, 50+ man crews at all times. Those guys who love sc with no life and can just non stop play will be the power house capital ship players. Those who want to enjoy sc and casual play will enjoy smaller things that only need 5-10am crews. Different level of gameplay for different kind of ships. Any carrier will be wild due to it using a fleet and hanger system meaning you’ll have peoeple landing and leaving the ship for scouting fueling practice combat ect that’s a whole monster of jobs, that is seperate from the inside carrier gameplay itself…..
So much is still missing in this alpha. Functional kitchens, engineering gameplay, more than one system, modularity, properly functioning AI, player bases, server meshing and a properly functional PES, the new star map, true armor for ships, growing/crafting, data running, proper bounty retrieval (without killing suspect), proper medical gameplay etc. They're still struggling with the basics, like having 100 players on a server without things going terribly wrong or crashing altogether. Even ground vehicles have very little purpose. While it can be fun to speculate on these capital ships, it is truly concerning that after years, imagination and speculation is a resort that most players have to go into if they want to try and maintain interest in this game.
I think it will be a problem in the game to fully crew these ships. because a lot of players have these ships and I think most of them want to use these ships themselves. 🤔
it tells me that after years of owning a javelin SC will never be flight ready for me... :( it also tells me that after even more years of owning a idris i have to be a streamer to get access to it...
Nope, if that was the case, you'd be seeing thousands of Javelins in the system. It's meant to be a high-maintenance multi-crewed experienced ship, if you can fly it solo with A.I, it defeats the purpose of it being a capital ship. The very fact you need CO-pilots for capital ships flying kinda creates a new immersive experience that SC has yet to touch, considering there are orgs out there with 100+ people (I am in one as well, and we already own 6 of them in the org).
@@Relixification I dislike the idea of "Well you have to have multiple people cause x, y and z, reasons cause artificially limiting people's fun is great for the game." (Hunger systems) Also its a major pain to organize a small group of people let alone enough to full crew a Jav. AI crew in my opinion SHOULD be as capable as players, cause otherwise you get an imbalance where only large orgs can run around with capital ships and bully everyone else. Also the whole "Well there would be 100+ javelins" that seems CIG's fuck up, that they punish the players to fix.
@@themeddite don't worry, few opposing comments here-and-there won't change the fact, that driving takes one guy and shooting just takes random AI. I would hire real players on a Javelin only for the role of a janitor or an engineer. Same story with real-world 400m-long merchant vessels - it's one guy un-/berthing the ship with a tablet showing distance to obstacles! In Star Citizen we have 3rd Person View!
@@themeddite Well thats just it isn't it? Organizing, teamwork, collaborative play, those are the essences that would define a Capital Ship. There will NOT be an imbalance when those very ships you want to be solo-flown, are made for big orgs to use. It would be an IMBALANCE IF a dozen of players from an org individually decide to just use their javelins because they can, anyone could just use a javelin to lockdown anything, JT is up? Or Ghost Hollow? Nope, a single player can use a Javelin. no thank you.
I understand your point of view and I agree that technically it should be possible to solo this with AI NPC. But if that's the case, I strongly believe that the AI NPC should be dumbed down to a basic level of intelligence. There should be no way in heaven and hell a solo capital ship (crewed with AI) can stand even a micro chance of destroying a fully crewed ship in PvP. Even if that solo player is God in terms of skill level and the fully crewed capital is a bunch of average Joe(s). For PvE, nobody cares, but if an AI can beat human in PvP, that's massive no
I think in terms of AI for capital ships it should be an option, but much less effective than actual players. For example, make them avaiable enough to manage every day solo operation for getting around, but not fully operational.
These ships don't do anything yet and I feel bad for anyone who has bought them surviving off of hopium. As it stands, it is better to have several smaller ships than the 1 large.
I still don't understand what the point of the game is supposed to be if you can pledge your way through the progression completely, while the progression for genuine levelers is the most janky experience to ever exist. You can literally reach end game by paying money before the game is even out of alpha.
I think it depends if you're somebody who plays for progression, or who plays for the enjoyment of the experience. I guess it's like the difference between playing golf so you can buy progressively better golf clubs, or whether you just want some good clubs and go out and play. And that's a matter for each individual player, what their priority is. Just my opinion :)
@@Defathomize I dunno, I see things differently. When I look back at my time in WoW Classic, for example, the grind to 60 was just a grind. It was the raiding at end-game that was fun. I know some people did that for the gear, but for me I did it for the experience of playing with 39 other people, all working together. That's the appeal of the Javelin to me - it's not about unlocking the thing, it's about using it with a co-ordinated group of friends to do things.
@@Farrister yeah but there won't be enough/any people doing anything if not for some kind of progression. This applies when talking about larger groups of players. For some people, it's the people. For most people, it's the progression. This incentifies one group so the other group joins, etc etc and you get a substantial player base. If at the core there is no drive, it falls apart in segments and no one plays a dead mmo, it won't be fun for you either.
Honestly Capital ships are a waste of money right now. Servers can only handle 50 players at a time frome what i found. An idris takes 26-28 people max crew. Javil found you can function with 12-80. Capital class ships wont be able to be fully utilized to server meshing is polished
current server hardcap is 109 but it scales dynamically depending on server and backend health. Besides, captial ships are not being worked on until physicalised damage and resource managment comes online since that is a requirement to enable engineering with server meshing being another requirement for the bigger ships. Other than that most of your crew will consist of AI or server blades anyway in most cases.
@@ashtin5392 Yes. You will still be able to solo multicrew ships by hiring NPC crew, which will be more expensive to maintain and less effective than real players though. We will probably see a mix of players and AI for the bigger ships since getting a group together where everyone has time for these will be virtually impossible and not everyone wants to do every job, while a full npc crew will likely explode your maintainance cost.
its a shame to say it. only elite was right about , scrapp the singel player. think how fare we could have come on live server if they didnt suck it dry and added everything to sq42.
