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What Ever Happened to Earthsea? 

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There has never been another series like Earthsea, its take on fantasy is one that is wholly unique and at times confrontational. Today we dive into the incredible world of Earthsea, a series that captivated readers with its rich mythology, complex characters, and profound and boundary pushing themes. We'll explore what made Ursula K. Le Guin's creation so special, examine the various adaptations in film, and speculate on the future of the Earthsea series.
Thanks so much!
Patreon:
www.patreon.com/EndingsExplained
Laserox:
tinyurl.com/mrx3z8zj
00:00 - Intro
01:32 - Setting
04:58 - Novels
21:45 - Writing and Influence
24:13 - Sponsor
24:53 - Movies
31:00 - Future
Music:
Hard Boiled, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Rising Tide, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Celtic Impulse, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Suonatore di Liuto, Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0
creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Sources:
www.neh.gov/article/ursula-k-le-guin-was-creator-worlds#:~:text=Born%20in%20Berkeley%2C%20California%2C%20in,and%20The%20Dispossessed%20(1974).
ekostories.com/2012/03/11/tombs-atuan-freedom/
www.cbr.com/ponyo-miyazaki-apology-to-son/#:~:text=After%20watching%20the%20film%2C%20Hayao,he%20blamed%20his%20son%20for."

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18 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 88   
@5050clown
@5050clown 12 дней назад
so glad to hear the praise for Tombs. You can’t help but hear Le Guin’s voice when reading it. Truly amazing and overlooked story, deserves to be in the fantasy canon.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 11 дней назад
Totally agree - it's kind of amazing you don't hear more praise for Tombs in general, but maybe that just speaks more to the crowds I'm in haha. So cool to see appreciation for this series though!
@zenebean
@zenebean 13 дней назад
Ged was the greatest painter in the world who lost his hands. Of course he despairs for a while, grieves. We are all eventually shadows of who we were. But Ged remains kind, respectful, loving, and still f*cking protects who he cares about. I think his story is great for anyone who feels powerless
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 13 дней назад
Ged is probably one of the most unique main characters from any fantasy which is even more interesting considering he's only the POV character for one of the six books.
@zenebean
@zenebean 12 дней назад
@@exitsexamined seeing his growth through the eyes of other characters is very cool
@marieroberts5664
@marieroberts5664 2 дня назад
Painter?
@williamobraidislee3433
@williamobraidislee3433 13 дней назад
I clearly have mind control over this channel. Every time I wonder "whatever happened [ insert setting here ]" you do a video on it.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 13 дней назад
If you can guess what I'm covering in two weeks I will be truly impressed haha. But glad to be mind controlled if it lets me cover such amazing series like Earthsea!
@williamobraidislee3433
@williamobraidislee3433 13 дней назад
@@exitsexamined I’ll have to wait until I’m driving on some long highway and my brain goes “Whatever happened to…” Then I’ll know!
@williamobraidislee3433
@williamobraidislee3433 12 дней назад
@@exitsexamined Bam! Got it already. I woke up thinking “whatever happened to Raymond E. Feist’s Riftwar saga?”
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 11 дней назад
@@williamobraidislee3433 haha not quite! But you have inspired me to write it on my list! I'll let you know when I release it though, a good pick!
@bmattwright1
@bmattwright1 6 дней назад
The Tombs of Atuan is my favorite book of all time. I have never felt the way I did when I finished that book again.
@Csxa11
@Csxa11 5 дней назад
This was definitely my favourite of the series
@rpdt96
@rpdt96 10 дней назад
I have so, so much to say about Earthsea. What a brilliant set of books, what an imaginative take on fantasy and story, Ursula Le Guin has opened my mind to many different ways a story can be; I've since gobbled up any book of hers I can find (most recently, Lathe of Heaven). On the Ghibli side of things, word on the street is Hayao Miyazaki was a HUGE fan c. 1980's and the series has been a huge influence for him; if you ask me, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind feels like it gets Earthsea more than the actual Ghibli Earthsea did.
@fumarc4501
@fumarc4501 9 дней назад
Earthsea was one of my favorite books growing up. Right up there with The Alchemist and The Years of Rice and Salt.
@jemm113
@jemm113 4 дня назад
I saw the Alchemist at the bookstore but didn’t pick it up, what’s it about and would you recommend it?
@fumarc4501
@fumarc4501 4 дня назад
@@jemm113 It’s a coming of age story, very lite read, and has fantastic world building. Would recommend for everyone at all ages.
@JoshuaRastia
@JoshuaRastia 6 дней назад
I have a major soft spot for the ghibli adaptation, even if the plot is clunky, I just loose myself in its visuals and music and love putting it on as background noise while I work on projects :)
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 6 дней назад
I actually might take that idea from you! Putting on a projector in the background sounds really comfy!
@DilutedH2SO4
@DilutedH2SO4 2 дня назад
I love seeing Earthsea content, it made up a big part of my childhood :)
@---mh7dk
@---mh7dk 10 дней назад
There is not enough about Earthsea on RU-vid. First the DinoTopia video NOW THIS!? You’ve got a sub.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 10 дней назад
Hey thanks so much! Honestly just so cool there's people who are interested in this stuff on RU-vid! It is interesting how there's not really a ton of Earthsea content on RU-vid, I wonder if it's indicative to the popularity of the series or something else
@zachlong5427
@zachlong5427 10 дней назад
In general, I'm hearing the same thing I learned from Fullmetal Alchemist: it had a lady author, Arakawa Hiromu, and women authors write differently than men authors. That's it! If I had to try and put it to words, I've found that women authors have a kind of gentleness in their stories, and it's like they don't even have to try hard to write characters. Granted, my sample size is Le Guin, Arakawa, and Lois McMasters Bujold (Miles Vorkosigan sci-fi novels), and maybe Rowling...Jane Austen too, now that I think of it, when I was reading the text wall at the 22:00 minute mark. [Edit: we have Twilight and trashy romance novels that contaminate the sample size, so I want to say 'the high-caliber women authors' show the above similarities.]
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 10 дней назад
Hey! I hear you! But my guess is that woman authors, just like men authors all write different depending on their background, generation, beliefs, demographics etc. Earthsea has a good amount of aspects that make it unique from other fantasy. Actually this comment has me thinking the same thing I did when doing my video for Eragon - makes you think how the series would critiqued differently if the the books were released anomalously, so much of how we perceive them is based on our opinions of the authors, myself included haha. Interesting to think about!
@zachlong5427
@zachlong5427 10 дней назад
@@exitsexamined Yeah, seems that way.
@Dorian_sapiens
@Dorian_sapiens 10 дней назад
I *adore* the Earthsea (first) trilogy + _Tehanu._ Book four is where I stopped; as the video says, that seemed like the end. But now I've been persuaded to at least read _The Other Wind._ I think people who were upset by Ged's loss of power in _Tehanu_ were not paying attention to what Le Guin was telling them all along in the first trilogy. Ged is not the main character of a power fantasy. If he's an aspirational figure at all, it's not for fantasy reasons but reality reasons. He struggles, stumbles, fails, and grows up―not as a wizard but as a human being. His status as archmage in book three is symbolic (in Jungian or mythological fashion, if you like) of a man in the prime of his life, at the height of his physical and social power. Then he grows into old age. His powers decline, but they're replaced by other powers. It's natural and not undesirable. Last note: Part of the difficulty of adapting Earthsea to visual media may be that Le Guin often "violates" the truism "Show, Don't Tell". Actually, telling is sometimes the best way to convey information. Sorry if that comes as a surprise to anyone. (This is possibly why the first four books of Earthsea pack more punch into fewer pages than some single entries in some long-winded writers' series.)
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 10 дней назад
I think Tales and The Other Wind are 100% at least worth checking out if you've gotten to Tehanu! It somehow feels like a proper end even though somehow Tehanu also felt like an end haha and if nothing else it's more Earthsea! It is interesting how some people were so upset by Tehanu, but on the other hand it's kind of surprising that even after all this time this is still such fresh ground for fantasy as a whole. I haven't checked out that much modern recent fantasy to be fair, but I've never seen another fantasy series that deals with heros after they lose their power. in their old age, and settling down and coming to terms with it. Agree it would take a very special team to be able to translate Earthsea into visual media, but I think actually a graphic novel might be interesting to see actually
@nicholasbarton3184
@nicholasbarton3184 13 дней назад
The Tombs of Atuan was one of the most beautiful books I've ever read. Amazing job on the video, didn't even know about the Ghibli film!
@hippogriffsrule7
@hippogriffsrule7 12 дней назад
Earthsea os one of my favourite fantasy series, so cool to see you do a video on it! I had no idea they did a radio series on it, hope it gets adapted properly one day...
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 12 дней назад
Hey thanks so much! Hope I did. the series justice in your opinion. It would be great to see an adaption, but I think it's a tough series to do properly, we'll see if the most recent one gets off the ground!
@rpdt96
@rpdt96 10 дней назад
Earthsea sets itself apart by not being an unabashed Tolkien clone. I've grown up loving Tokkien and his work, still do, and looking for oher fantasy series is so hard because nothing else quite captures the wonder in fantasy the same way Tolkien does. Earthsea is one rare exception to that.
@Csxa11
@Csxa11 4 дня назад
Great video, only read the first 4 books so far but I'm excited to read the last 2. Love Usula K. LeGuin's writting so much.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 4 дня назад
Hey thank you so much! I'd be really curious to hear how you enjoy the last two books! If you enjoyed Tehanu and the proceeding books you'll probably like the last few!
@FestiveJeff
@FestiveJeff 12 дней назад
I was literally just telling my friend about earth sea now I’m gonna send this to her
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 12 дней назад
Awesome! Let me know what they think, would be so cool to get someone into the series!
@Dayshan
@Dayshan 12 дней назад
I tried to like the Ghibli film but the story was hard to try to feel invested in. I was more interested in the landscaping. Movie felt more like a pretty postcard
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 12 дней назад
That's true it was a gorgeous movie if nothing else. Apparently Miyazaki wanted to do the film much earlier but Ursula shot it down because she hadn't heard of Ghibli at the time. After a while Ghibli blew up a little and she agreed to do the film. A juicy theory some have people is that Miyazaki handed it to his son and part of the reason he was so hands off on the project was a kind of revenge for being put off the first time. In any event it does make you think how it would have turned out differently if Miyazaki had been more involved, or directed himself instead of his son.
@Painocus
@Painocus 6 дней назад
@@exitsexamined It was Toshio Suzuki who gave it to Gorō, not Hayao Miyazaki. Hayao was actually vocally against giving the project to his son, and it caused some rift in their relationship and they did not speak to each-other during the whole production of the film. Le Guin was against giving Ghibli the rights originally mainly because her main reference point for animated fantasy films at the time was Walt Disney and she did not want to risk an Earthsea film being like that. She changed her mind after actually getting the chance to see a Miyazaki film, namely My Neighbor Totoro. Le Guin wanted Hayao Miyazaki to do it and Hayao wanted to do it, but he was busy with Howl's Moving Castle at the time, so instead of waiting on him Suzuki gave it to Gorō.
@lucagianchino6404
@lucagianchino6404 12 дней назад
The thing if treu name is a very interesting topos, used both by Le Guin and Paolini, much time before LeGuin used, so I do not thing Paolini copy the writress, at last not in this case;) Beautiful video;)
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 12 дней назад
Thanks so much for watching it! That's true, going for Paolini for copying is a low hanging fruit and some people do debate if Le Guin even came up with it. Honestly that's a whole video in itself!
@marieroberts5664
@marieroberts5664 2 дня назад
​@@exitsexamined the power of the name is ancient belief in many cultures, and LeGuin as the child of an anthropologist would know that. Like Elves and Dwarves, anyone can write about that. It's just that real power like that isn't visual, and nowhere near as flashy as throwing fireballs around.
@RendallRen
@RendallRen 7 дней назад
_"This was way, way, way ahead of its time."_ 4:05 This 1968 book is definitely innovative in a lot of ways, but sci-fi had been for decades engaging with themes of race and challenging racial tropes. Even *Starship Troopers* from the 1950s challenged racial ideas of the time.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 7 дней назад
Hey fair enough! I should have clarified for fantasy! Although I'm not hugely knowledgeable about sci fi I would be curious if there were many prominent minority MC from famous authors from that time though - for example Ursula LG had to fight extremely hard to get a dark skinned Ged on the cover, which makes you wonder if that precedent had been set before in Sci fi or other genres!
@a.m.pietroschek1972
@a.m.pietroschek1972 2 дня назад
Ursula K. Le Guin inspired readers to watch out for our mistakes, the consequences, and the price of wisdom (surviving the repercussions, being at odds with former mindsets AND companions). For supposed YA aka coming of age that is A LOT of maturity in compressed form, and without the weaponized therapy-talk or woke BS of nowadays.
@Literarydilettante
@Literarydilettante 11 дней назад
Talk about Earthsea? Subscribed.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 11 дней назад
Honestly, that's a great rule of thumb for youtube and one I intend to steal from you haha
@Literarydilettante
@Literarydilettante 11 дней назад
@@exitsexamined never regretted it so far, haha. And also, great video!!!
@silentobserver4425
@silentobserver4425 2 дня назад
Literally Earthsea and Conan are my biggest writing influences regarding fantasy. I would say after that lord of the rings and game of thrones comes next, regarding western fantasy.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined День назад
That's really interesting because of those three Earthsea is so completely different!
@NeoPokebonz
@NeoPokebonz 9 дней назад
Dang. You just reminded me I haven't started on that book. Once again sleeping on excellence I intended to learn from
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 7 дней назад
Hey better late than never! Let me know how you like it! What were the other things you slept on?
@marieroberts5664
@marieroberts5664 2 дня назад
If you want suggestions, you've come to the right place. Unlike most here (I would guess), I haven't hopped on the bandwagon for most of the popular new or current writers (like Sanderson or Martin). I'm kinda picky, and shy away from most sci-fi (but I like Star Wars of course, go figure). So here is my short list of authors that need a revival. Lloyd Alexander (with a bullet) he wrote for kids and older kids, but I loved pretty much everything. His big splash in fantasy was all about Welsh mythology, The Chronicles of Pyridan, featuring the adventures of Taran, Assistant Pig Keeper. One single adaptation, the Black Cauldron, one of Disney's flops, when they could put out good work, but marketing had no idea how to market (it failed at the same time frame as Treasure Planet and now having watched both, it's like how??). PS - special shout out to his three book series West Mark - Star Wars in a medieval setting, but pretty deep - rebelling is easy, but winning is hard and hardest of all is keeping the win and your soul while doing it. Julian May - when this author shot to the top, there was nothing like it. The prehistoric past on earth, invaded by ancient elves, at the same time the current timeline aliens have come to invite us to join the rest of the galaxy, at the same time that we in the current day discover that we can go back to prehistory so that the people who can't put up with the brave new world can go back and live out their lives without suicide or messing up the timeline... The series regarding this Many Colored Land ends and we never hear from the author again. Elizabeth Scarborough - wonderful fantasy and a very fun world starting with The Unicorn Creed, and our Maggie, the village witch, and the rest of the series expands to include her entire extended family. Nancy Springer - another genius storyteller who loves to tell us of a place called Isle, and how some of their folk are descended from elves and goddesses and how mad gods and invaders came among them...yes, we've seen this before, but it doesn't feel derivative or rehashed. Barbara Cooper - she's done a lot, but most famous series is a what if Arthurian cycle of young Bran, heir to Arthur in the modern day- of the five, I Stan the middle book "Green witch". IIRC she was also the creator of the High Derynie series, and both Ursula LeGuin and I think that series was a little under baked - LeGuin's takedown of this Cooper series was part of her famous essay "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie", a must read for any fan or would be author of fantasy. Anne McCaffrey - prolific author of both science fiction (eg The Ship Who Sang) and her fantasy - sci-fi hybrid the Dragonriders of Pern series. I especially like and recommend the side series 'for kids' the Harper Hall trilogy... Dragons and their mini ancestors the fire lizards and a girl named Mennolly who can sing and play music and who imprinted (called Impression in world) nine singing fire lizards. Why much lesser stuff gets the adaptations and this gets passed over? Beats the heck out of me. There's more, but these are the authors the uppermost in my mind.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined День назад
Hey thanks so much for the detailed response, I've recorded some of these for future entries! I already covered Chronicles of Prydain series though! Check it out, would be good to hear your thoughts!
@marieroberts5664
@marieroberts5664 День назад
​@@exitsexamined I've finished Pryidan and I think I left some comments there too. I am enjoying these, and will be looking at some of the other vids. Good luck with this channel.
@Grogeous_Maximus
@Grogeous_Maximus 13 дней назад
I had no idea Ursula had written fantasy books :o
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 13 дней назад
Honestly it's kind of an amazing career - even after writing what some people consider the best fantasy series of all time probably a ton of people know her for her sci fi and probably vice versa
@remuslazar2033
@remuslazar2033 11 дней назад
Ursula Von der Leyen
@psychosis8429
@psychosis8429 4 дня назад
I haven't read the Earthsea Saga but I really want to. I love dragons and stories with dragons in them
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 4 дня назад
I'd say go for it! What type of dragon books are your favorite? The ones in Earthsea aren't in the spotlight as often as other series, they are more like forces of nature at the edge of her stories if that makes any sense
@psychosis8429
@psychosis8429 4 дня назад
@@exitsexamined I really love the dragons and books in the Inheritance Cycle. I like the idea of sentient dragons and dragon bonds
@Canario_27
@Canario_27 12 дней назад
First three are wonderful but I gave up on book four. Hopefully you’ll inspire me to go back to it.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 12 дней назад
I hope so too! I think book four was hard for me at first too but I found it worth reading because it's rare for me to start a book with boredom, then hate, then a begrudging respect. But I'm sure everyone will feel differently!
@Lakatu
@Lakatu 13 дней назад
Anything to recommend just goes straight on my audiobook que- LOVE your videos dude-!!!
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 13 дней назад
Hey thanks so much! Earthsea isn't for everyone but for the people who get into it, there's nothing else like it. The next few weeks I'll be covering some YA series so depending on your tastes might not want to auto que those haha.
@Lakatu
@Lakatu 10 дней назад
@@exitsexamined I'm a AVID audiobook listener while I work so the longer my que, the BETTER! I can't wait !!!
@williamdrum9899
@williamdrum9899 8 дней назад
That's a Rebecca Guay painting as the thumbnail isn't it
@jamesesparza6893
@jamesesparza6893 7 дней назад
Sounds like the Starseige of books
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 7 дней назад
Was unfamiliar with Starseige, but did a quick wiki glance. Now I have to read more to see how a Mech sci fi universe battling against AI is similar to Earthsea haha. I'm imagining like Taoist AI
@jamesesparza6893
@jamesesparza6893 7 дней назад
@@exitsexamined its more so that its considered a gem, being the first game to both introduce large scale combat and sci-fi FPS to gaming, a prelude to both Halo and Battlefield. It's been mostly forgotten as a franchise.
@kayla_eeve
@kayla_eeve 7 часов назад
The dig at Paolini wasn't necessary. I've been rereading the Inheritance Cycle for the first time as an adult and I will die defending this series. The first book can be a little derivative but it also has some wonderfully original aspects and each subsequent book mostly only improves. It's a very boilerplate hero's journey but it's certainly not a Star Wars ripoff, like some people try to argue, and I've never found any merit in the plagiarism accusations. Also, Paolini was only 15 when he started writing Eragon and 17 when it was published so I tend to be a little easier on that book despite enjoying the other 3 far more. I love Le Guin as well but she doesn't have a monopoly on language/true name-based magic. That would be like saying every wise old mentor who tragically dies is a shameless ripoff of Obi-Wan Kenobi or every series with dragonriders is stealing from Anne McCaffrey.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 3 часа назад
Hey thanks for pointing that out! I actually love Eragon and did a video on the series on this channel where I discuss the plagiarism allegations in depth. In no way am I saying Le Guin or any author has a monopoly on ideas. I just wanted to point out that, wether justified or not, that is a common critique of the inheritance cycle that the magic system is taken from Earthsea. I love the Inheritance cycle as well and will actually remake the Eragon video soon! Looking forward to the new book coming out soon
@marieroberts5664
@marieroberts5664 2 дня назад
And to me, the biggest fail of Earthsea is once again, the entire world is freaking White, with Ged just lightly weathered and tanned. I guess I have a beef with anime in general, since as half Chinese born in 1961, I have spent a good portion of my life watching tv, especially cartoons, and let me tell you, without the backgrounds that show Japanese lettering and clothing and food (and even that isn't consistent), you'd never know that any of the people were Asian! I also realize that a lot of the product (especially in the infancy of Japanese animation) was designed to have Western appeal (like 'tourist' jade and porcelain, meant for export), but it has always driven me a little crazy, that nobody ever looked like Papa and me. Or at least it did until I spoke to some American anime fans, who mentioned that the eyes are not 'slanted' because the Japanese themselves don't see their eyes as anything different, in addition to making the work exaggerated and cartoony, not exactly life like. But for a people that have to know that it's not a good look to be utterly erased, to just go ahead and ignore the basics? That is cold, stone cold disrespectful.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined День назад
In the books I think everyone is dark skinned aside from the Kargad empire so it was strange that Ged was only slightly tan in the anime.
@marieroberts5664
@marieroberts5664 День назад
@@exitsexamined exactly! It's like the animators don't know how to color dark skin and still have facial details. For the books, it's the default to whiteness from the majority of American and/or European readers, no matter what the writer wrote, as Suzanne Collins found out to her shock. Keeping to LeGuin, I'd love/hate to see what the Powers that Be would do with the Left Hand of Darkness. An entire planet of people who are androgynous without exterior sex characteristics most of the month, but then turn into flip a coin, male or female at month end, when they are fertile. An entire world that is non-binary/trans.
@westongarner-qo2ez
@westongarner-qo2ez 4 дня назад
391st like!👍 Awesome video!🤘 Should check out this series!😁 Subscribed!😎
@sketchasaurrex4087
@sketchasaurrex4087 11 дней назад
It's an ok series and Ged is the only character that I liked. Shirking common tropes and having each book being so different hurts it more than helps.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 11 дней назад
Fair enough, it's not for everyone! Out of curiosity what fantasy series do you enjoy?
@sketchasaurrex4087
@sketchasaurrex4087 11 дней назад
@exitsexamined Pullman and Martin are too cynical. Terry Goodkind & Brooks are fun reads. I really like Jim Butcher. I can't get into Terry Pratchett, though I like his ideas. I don't like Neil Gaiman. C.S.Lewis and Tolkien are great, and I read them yearly. I like most stories about King Arthur and Merlin. Final Fantasy 6 & 9, and Chrono Trigger have fantastic stories. Berserk is my favorite fantasy. It's the grimest and the darkest, but everyone seems to miss that it's also one of the most hopeful stories out there.
@sawyersprott
@sawyersprott 13 дней назад
Dang man, definitely put some heavy undertones of progressive social belief being “good” in this one.
@sawyersprott
@sawyersprott 13 дней назад
As did the books evidently, but the analysis seems rather biased in favor of certain social views.
@exitsexamined
@exitsexamined 13 дней назад
If I did it wasn't my intention - Earthsea is incredible for a number of reasons. Writing, subtle world building, and yes the way Le Guin confrontationally changes the series as it progresses. I'm not saying because of those themes is what makes the series so exceptional, but the fact that Le Guin chose to do this at all. And as a whole I think most of Earthsea is about balance and acceptance, not pushing social views - but hey it's a video on RU-vid you're welcome to think what you will! Sorry if you didn't like this one!
@zenebean
@zenebean 13 дней назад
​@@sawyersprotti never see what's bad about it
@Canario_27
@Canario_27 12 дней назад
Classy answer
@5050clown
@5050clown 12 дней назад
yeah well read the books.