What Happened To The ICON A5? 

The Icon A5 has always looked great to me, but the price is at a level where I'd rather have a sailboat. Sailboats are a LOT more practical.

A beautiful airplane but twice what it should cost.

I work on these airplanes frequently. We have 3 on our field, and work closely with the company. Communication with them is very good, however maintenance is excessive, and the number of safety directives and service letters on the planes are astounding. That coupled with the high purchase price, and the very limited mission, its customer base is very very niche.

I was an early position holder - placed an order when it was priced at ~$150K, flew the A5 in 2018 and was extremely impressed with the plane, tons of fun. It really is a great plane; anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what they’re talking about. BUT, the price increases and restrictive terms made me cancel the order. Zero interest at $350K. Icon took on enormous overhead based on their belief that they could sell them in big volumes, obviously unrealistic in hindsight. After I cancelled my order I told the Icon leadership the company would eventually declare bankruptcy and be restructured at a cost structure able to support selling the A5 at a marketable price. Here we are, and we shall see.

If it wasnt for Microsoft Flight Sim I doubt I would have ever heard of these guys

The private airplane market is insane because of costs. Thats's why I quit flying years ago. However, I use the Microsoft flying simulator, and fly the A5 from there. With their worldwide maps, I use it to explore the worlds rivers and coasts. Almost as good as being there in real life, and tens of thousands of $ cheaper !

I believe they also required an onboard camera recording while operating and they owned the camera and recording. Nobody likes being told they have to be watched and recorded while enjoying their own flying time.

What happened? They ended up with a $250k flying jet-ski. Calling it a limited market is the understatement of the decade. Early on.....they focused on looking cool. Spending gobs of cash at shows like Oshkosh. Of course they massively underestimated the final cost and delivery schedule. Such a wasted effort.

I'm pissed and I don't even fly. My CNC machine shop is right down the street from them in Vacaville CA and I watch the test flights all the time. I saw so many I thought they were doing great. Bummer

They put wings on an underpowered see-doo and charge 400K for it. Wonder why it failed

It's a shame that this comes literally five weeks after they announced a 60 lbs gross weight increase with the four-bladed propeller. The 430 lbs useful load always seemed ridiculously small to me, and would really limit its ability to carry two adults. The increased useful load of 490 lbs still isn't great, but at least you've got a reasonable chance of being able to fly with a friend and have enough load to fill up with more than an hour of fuel.

I cannot say they did it on purpose, but a lot of startups do this crap: 1. Come up with something that sounds amazing. 2. Claim it will be inexpensive and revolutionary. 3. Put most of their efforts into raising investor money. 4. Pay themselves way too much and spend the rest of the money in stupid ways. 5. Over promise and under deliver. 6. File bankruptcy so they don't have to pay anybody back. 7. Walk away having elevated their own lifestyle using other peoples' monies without consequence. They're looking for somebody to buy the company? They're looking for a chump. They're looking for some moron to pay a positive amount for an entity that has a negative net worth. It's just a way to grab some more "other people's money" on the way out.

My friends dad had one. He loved it

If they could have sold them for $150K, they would have been fine. But when a company tells you you have to overhaul the airframe every 2,000 hours? (Like any of these would ever get to 2,000 - c'mon, it's a "fly around the patch" toy, not a cross-country machine.) And then the price triples? Overhyped, oversold, underdelivered.

I remember seeing this plane when it was closer to the $400K mark and said the only people who would be interested in a plane that expensive and that limited were rich people with money to burn. But I still thought they would succeed. I had no idea about 1. you have to bring the PLANE back for a frame overhaul at 2k hours and 2. you can't sue them if you crash? I mean, what other conclusion can you draw other than even they don't trust the plane they were putting out? It's not surprising they went bankrupt!

🦘🇦🇺Thank you for the update. I hope it’s a good learning curve for them & they get their act together. 🙏

When this first was proposed, it was supposed to be AFFORDABLE…..and the rest is history.

Was icon the only place where they could overhaul the airframe? So now are they going to run courses for mechanics to be certified to carry out these overhauls for the current owners of the aircraft. If not wonder what the 2nd hand value is now. Hmmm interesting to see how this pans out.

I believe a weight exemption was required on their first variant. And then you have much better offerings from Searey, Super Petrel, and others that are not only cheaper and safer, but already have a strong established customer base.

I got to fly a demo flight of one and land on the water. One of the most memorable experiences of my life

This makes me sad. I had planned to buy one in a couple years.

Thanks Mojo for your informative videos.

It cost to darn much!!! It was/is a great plane, but damn the price is just to high for what it is. It was basically a jetski with wings, but they tried selling it as a new Cessna 172. However, the 172 is much more practical for about the same money. It was a slow plane without much range, and a crazy high price. All that equals fail.

In my opinion, the LSA constraints are what killed the A5. They wanted to be an Amphibious Cirrus, but could hold enough or go far enough for it to be a practical design. Perhaps MOSAIC will make way for a more practical version of this type of plane in the future. I do have to admit, the folding wings and trailer ability was very cool.

Silent Yachts, the solar yacht company also filed Bankruptcy.

It's an interesting case study on aviation business and aircraft manufacturing. While doing aviation consulting about a decade ago, my business partner questioned whether there was a market for this type of airplane. The original price was enticing, I considered buying one with a partnership agreement, but due to the slow development/certification, it was a wait and see. My business partner was an old school businessman, told me it wouldn't make it based on the limited demand for a seaplane, which is usually the case. His opinion on the flying car concept was a hilarious take on reality, which I still totally understand that one, and please...never invest in a company promising a flying car! Nonetheless, the Icon-5 unfortunately peaked it's demand and found that selling recreational airplanes to be a tough go. Despite the clever design and features, it probably didn't have a chance. The better option for aircraft development, is to use the engineering talent not in design, but manufacturing. An automated construction method that provides an inexpensive airframe with higher quality, along with lower cost of ownership, at that point a 4 seat single engine would sell very well. Think Henry Ford type of out of the box production thinking, and economy of scale, you probably have a successful business model.

Served very little purpose for such a high price point. If they were smart they would have dropped the price by a huge amount and made it more affordable to GA enthusiasts. Its only a 2 seater low endurance and not much payload. Cant be asking that sort of price for a gymic

The airplane was built for an en excluiive smaller market, 7 figure people need only apply. And then only a percentage of those people would be interested. Icon, definitely not going to be the Henry Ford of Avaton .

Very informative video, thanks. The entire ICON operation at Santa Monica Airport (KSMO as seen in your opening sequence) was very sloppy. After a very brief and almost laughable 'preflight,' the female company demo pilot did not conduct any semblance of a decent cockpit briefing, and as a Commercial Pilot, the entire experience was troubling to me. I'd heard that a passenger on a demo flight there in 2018 was seriously injured and hospitalized due to lack of an adequate egress briefing in the airplane with that same demo pilot.

One of my neighbors has one of these. I chuckle every time I see him drive down the street towing his airplane on a trailer. He loves the thing.

What about icon telling you that you had to train with them or they had to approve you for the purchase or they had to approve who you would sell it to or the fact that they made you do maintenance through them or the fact that they raised the price to over triple

Very well made video, always loved this plane and enjoyed your overview!

They changed their policies that made it sort of like a lease rather than purchase of the aircraft. What I was told was even if you owned the aircraft, they required you to have THEM do all service of your aircraft...

Happens every time we start to enter into a deep recession. We are diving head first into one this year.

Private aviation is very expensive. For most, it is primarily a toy. AA-5 owner here.

Thanks for this update. I was enamored with this plane when I first heard about it and I knew about the crashes, but the details are interesting.

I have two words to say about the icon… Roy Halladay No, he was not fit to fly. I agree with that, but that aircraft is challenging, nevertheless.

That actually really sucks, i really loved the concept of this plane, hopefully somebody can end up filling this niche in the world of flying

Hey Mojo, have you looked into the Samson Switchblade? Looks like an A5 land version.

It was too expensive for what you get, so nobody wanted to buy it. There are just better options.

Mike it's such a fun fly , loved fling it , I wanted one very badly but the contact an themselves making me see many red flags , so didn't, still thinking of getting a used one , funnest plane for weekend playing, it's a great toy

Nice summary, Mike. Just curious, what’s the technical reason stated by the manufacturer that it needs to be sent back to factory at 2k hours for an airframe overhaul?

Mike, there was a lot of old information you were putting out that is on the internet but has been corrected or just wrong. And don't get started with some of the haters below who clearly are in one camp or another. I think you know someone who sells ICONs in Texas that you need to talk to and clear up your misunderstandings. Not sure if you have another airframe you prefer or get sponsored which may forbid the conversation, but talk to him and at least have a little more clearity (on or off mic). For me, I obviously love the look and flying characteristics of the ICON A5 (and yes the performance for what it was designed to do it does, especially with a 4-blade prop and increased weight mod my airframe will have a 500lb useful load). Of course it was never designed to takeoff in 300ft, 4000ft/min climb and 8hr endurance (my bladder has a 2hr limit🤣). I don't hate on any other models and would love to fly them all. They all have goods and bad. Overall for the market though, all these manufactures provide diversity of looks, finish, performance, options, and price (Yes ICON is at the upper end, but some would say $1.3mil for a new Cirrus is ridiculous, yet others don't). It's like football-You may be a Cowboy's Fan and you support your team, but you gotta love the game as a whole and wanted it to be strong sport in the future. Same for me in the Amphibious LSA world. ICON is still open, selling, servicing and supporting. Not hate'n, just saying...

The SeaRay is a simpler and much cheaper option .

It was unreasonably expensive, like most new GA aircraft

Designed by car stylists, with little thought for production methods or costs. An inevitable result I’m afraid…

We almost bought in when it was $140k. Something gave us pause, and glad it did. Nice bird, but at it's current price, a 172SP makes more sense.

An A5 with 800SHP Pratt turboprop, 6 bladed prop, 4 seats, cargo space, Garmin glass would have been awesome.

Good information.Very informative.

You mentioned the company had Chinese investors and production was moved to Mexico. Wondering if the company can stay afloat IF it had moved to China instead.

Only 45 seconds into this video and want to state the obvious. I-Con's downfall was being greedy. They stated an initial price and within 2 years of release they quadrupled their prices. They pretty much priced themselves out of customers and the market. They could of been a big hit if it wasn't for their greed. They would of sold so many planes if they stuck around their initial price. I would of been a customer of theirs if they didn't ask for another $150k on top of their initial price. Which is why I'm now a proud owner of a 1947 Republic RC-3 with a Robinson conversion (LS3). I've got more range, more power, more useful load and more seats for 1/4 the price of an I-Con.

This is how some planes develope over the years. They go bankrupt and somebody buys it for pennies on the dollar and it continues. Eclipse is one of them .They spent a billion dollars on the program and someone came in and bought it for a few million.

It’s just a jet ski with wings. Way over priced. I get it, certification takes a ton of money, but experimental category should help with that.

Unfortunately, Progressive Aerodyne (Searey) also closed their doors a little over a year ago after 30 years. Same story. Sold the company to a group based in Mainland China. Closed a couple of years later. They were still selling spare parts sporadically, then vacated the factory a couple of months ago. I hope someone ressurects it one day. Such a shame 😂

Isn't that plane the one Matt holiday crashed?

I commented on the original video when he was introducing it. He was pricing himself out of business before he got it up and selling good. He responded by “saying get two or three people and by interest in it.”😂😂😂

Interesting, the folks from Icon were out at the Miami International Boat show trying to sell planes. The sales person told me it would take over a year to buy one and get it built, like they had a huge backlog of orders.

Hopefully they can restructure and keep going forward as a viable business. Kudos to them for doing something different.

When I saw that they made the instrument panel look like an automobile I had doubts about its future success.

I flew one and loved it. Such a small niche though…hard to really thrive as a manufacturer.

I helped them set up their production line in Vacaville, and then later in Mexico when they moved. I always thought it was a neat (and niche) aircraft, but it seemed overpriced from the start. Still, it's a shame that they failed.

very cool plane. However as practical as a flying jet-ski

I sat in one recently. It’s a cramped toy. It has almost no useful load.

Great video. Calm, no senstaionalism. Happy to be corrected but I think the initial price was $140,000 ten or so years back. A friend had just paid $180,000 for a new car and so I thought, well there's a good argument for the wife, it's cheaper and more fun than a new car :) I was impressed with the spin-resistant design they kept demo-ing in test flight vids. I hope they are saved (under fresh management).

*Cheaper place to build + price goes up = greed.*

Thanks for your opinion about that plane 😮

I dream of owning an Icon A5. Unfortunately, it may never happen. BTW, the three high profile accidents they had were all pilot error. The 2000 hour airframe service was something that I didn’t know about until watching this video.

Prices are too high for everyone. Make aviation affordable again.

I don't know anything about the plane but just looking at it it seems like it is complicated to build. That's a shot in the foot right there if I am correct.

Pricing is what killed them. Fabulous piece of kit but not at $400K. They need to sell/manufacture 10 planes a month to break even.

Too expensive for a toy, crazy contract, horribly managed company from the start which led to low production quantity and ever increasing pricing.

How will the new weight specs for light sport effect Icon's ability to add more power and payload? Wasn't the LSA weight limit their root engineering problem?

Working as an A&P for years and retired now. A insurance reliable is cost is great. Many times in GA the pilot is the issue.

It is too bad that this happened, it had a very unique design where you could take off or land on both land and water. I only fly remote control planes and eflite made an a5 which I flew but they don’t make them anymore. I wish someone would bring it back😢

Great video about a sad story. Happens the same thing with cars. A lot of independent manufacturers driven almost solely by passion face a brick wall of regulations and certifications. The costs start to spiral out of control and they are never heard of again. As the decades go by, there are less and less manufacturers each year until one day there will be just one left.... holding the market hostage. Are we sure we are on the right track? honest question.

Some remarks on the flying cars compared to light seaplanes in general. A sea-land aircraft can fly and land on a lake (not the sea due waves) and on airfields. Imagine that footprint on a map. A flying car can fly, land on an airfield and drive over all existing roads in the world. Compare that footprint on the same map. This is essentially different. The market is much bigger; as the transport envelope is much greater and very finely meshed. The technical challenges of building are much higher, however. Flying mass, folding mechanisms, and road and air legislation togheter in a limited size and appropriate price. The high price is compensated by the transport envelope, which is virtually unlimited. The A5 sells a holyday dream, a flying car sells real useable transport. Hence another class. So: Think out of the box.

Totally a guess but what might to be an ongoing decline in general aviation interest could also have been a factor. And yes, that would apply to all aircraft manufacturers, but Icon might not have had the buffer margin to manage the added shenanigan. Hopefully the engineering, design and lessons learned will not be lost.

I plan to invest in traditional wood Sampans. Much more affordable, and the way the world is going the market is massive.

So sad!! Let's hope for a buyer that can turn it around.

What also doesn't help the Icon's design is its useful load at well under 500 lbs isn't that "useful".

How do you "overhaul" an airframe? I'm guessing it means inspection. I just saw an online article about an "affordable Cessna 172". 1969. $72,000. Burrrrrrrr. I bought my 1977 C172 for $50k. Good god. Lake renegades, 1976 vintage are $65k. I saw one in the mechanics hangar that was getting full glass. A great fun aircraft, but one that needs special handling and love.

I just remember that Roy Halladay crash. That really hurt them

Mojo - I love your channel. I am a pilot as well, AND I can tell you this, for "essentially" 1/2 a million bucks, I'll take a shiny new Cessna 172 SP - Thank you very much !!! - for an example..... I'm a "hundred dollar hamburger" kind of pilot - nothing fancy 🙂

A very wealthy man that loves that plane will still buy a A-5. He also will buy a second A-5 just for parts. He will definitely upgrade it to a Rotax 916. The stimulations & regulations the company had will be VOID, if they go totally out of business. The wealthy man will be able to do as he pleases with his A-5, at that point. Since money is not a problem for this man. He will have the COOLEST & RAREST aircraft to hit the runway. That’s going to be a BLESSING. I still Pray that for men that like to FLY, can still hit their FLY goal dream.

It was a great, attractive design. But it was too slow, way too expensive and the company was overbearing in its requirements of the customer. Its marketing was utterly disastrous, promoting the A5 as a casual lifestyle accessory for the super rich. You cannot sell thousands of units with that image. Quite the opposite. It should have been promoted as an amphibious craft for the common man then kept the price down through economies of scale. It also made the mistake of promoting the A5 as "easy". No aircraft is easy and requires thorough training.

another Classic Example of Over Promising, and Under Delivering. The "Contract" they proposed was absolutely ridiculous. There are better options out there for less money. I predict that the Vickers Aircraft Wave will succeed where this one failed.

Low production numbers prevented economies of scale. So the per unit cost has to go up.

Good video!

Hi Mike!!

When i can buy a real airplane for the same price as this flying toy, what would you choose,? i can buy a LA270 lake amphib for the same price,or a cessna 180 amphib, just another company whos priced itself out of the market.

I feel the camera focus is on the shirt?, if is a fixed lens I think moving the camera back would help? or is it just me? I just feel this videos are too high quality everywhere else so maybe is intentional?

God Bless. .. ..

So which one is your new airplane?

I can't say I feel sorry for the deposit holders, or the company. Light Sport should have offered aircraft priced for the niche the program was in. The Allegro 2000 I trained in at Falcon in Mesa AZ cost half of the Icon's price, though it still was not a huge success. Recreational flying is a nice dream, but it is also conspicuous consumption when prices ratchet closer and closer to a used biz jet, such as in the Icon's case. Startups that plan as they go along often dupe customers to send deposits to finance the initial design and testing, property and manufacturing equipment phase. That should be a red flag for any buyer--they are using the buyer as an investor. These buyers did not care--they were perfectly willing to pay 250K for something with limited range, speed, etc just so they could use it as an aerial-water RV. I learned as most of my friends who were recreational pilots, that renting is far better if you just want to do sightseeing--the Icon, had it been purchased by FBO's for that purpose, might have been a better idea, since it could also be used for flight instruction as a SLSA.

the A5 was only a limited production. it was never meant to be abundant in the marketplace

To be fair it looked fantastic! Performance wise, nothing to write home about though. Overpriced product sold by a badly manged company. All that hype,! But the price, the contract, the high profile crashes killed it. Interestingly, no novice pilot ever died in an A5. It was experienced pilots who flew their planes into the ground!

Is it a jet ski with wings??

This failure can be attributed to what so many startups experience. Designers/creators who have little to no experience in managing a mass market production company and, I suspect, too many cooks in the kitchen with veto rights.

I think Robinson helicopters requires you to send the helicopter back to the factory for overhaul every 2000 hrs.

Really sad to see it go... :(