As for what happened to the plastering industry, you have to go back several decades before the 70s. I started in the business in the early 50s. Back then, interior plastering was done by installing gypsum based sheets of a product called ( rock lath ) on the interior frame walls. That was covered by a base coat of gypsum mixed with sand. This was referred to as the brown coat. After drying which was determined to a large degree by the weather conditions, a finish coat of soaked lime mixed with a hardener called gauging plaster was applied over the brown coat and trowled smooth. In a typical say 1000 to 1200 square foot single family home, the lathing and plastering process could involve several weeks of time. And in poor wether conditions it could even take longer because of the freezing temperatures. The sand for example could freeze in the pile, even at the supply yards. This all of coarse had a major effect on the building process as for meeting delivery deadlines. In the late 40s following the end of WW2 a builder by name of Levitt built an entire city of 17000 homes on long Island near the city of New York. All of those homes and all of the other buildings involved as well were drywalled. There was no plaster involved at all in the entire project. After Levitt completed the New York project, the built a duplicate project of 17000 homes in Bucks County Pa, where it so happened that i lived. So by roughly the mid to late 50s plastering the walls in the vast majority of all new homes being built was over. Some homes were being done however, and exterior stucco work was of coarse still being done. But it made the business much more competitive than it had been. To the point that it wasent a good trade to follow as it once was. I simply switched to the home building industry where i remained until i retired. However i still on occasion would do some plastering work. The one coat plaster over drywall has somewhat brought back plastering to some degree. The process is very similar to the old lime white coat process over the brown base coat. Similar, but yet different in the way it is done. And i suspect that is due to the differences in the material being used. We would use a very large mortar board of say 5 feet square in order to mix the soaked lime with a hardener called gauging plaster. We used a retarder in the mix in order to allow enough working time before the mixture took a set. We would build a scaffold in the entire room, and run a coat of the mixture on the entire ceiling and part way down the sidewalls. After completing the first coat we would follow up with a second skim coat over the same area. That coat was applied more carefully, with as few imperfections as possible as well as trowel welts. We then used a tool for finishing all the inside corners, called angles. And no it isnt the same type as the V shaped device used for drywall. Then we used a wide bristle brush dipped in water to smooth trowel a finish on it. We would hold the brush in front of the trowel as we walked across the scaffold in a straight line from one end to the other. After the trowling, the scaffold would be removed and placed in a different room. The next mix of the lime and gauging plaster would be used in the same way to do another ceiling/ side wall area as well as the lower portion of the walls in the previous room. The closets would be worked in as well. The entire closet would as a rule be white coated before any trowling took place. So this process of doing just a wall or just a ceiling of the room at a time isnt what the older version of plastering was like. The hawk and trowel are the same, but the way they are used is a bit different as well. We as an apprentice were required to practice at the mortar board taking the mortar from the hawk. And untill we could take the mortar from the front of the hawk we werent permitted to practice applying it onto a wall. In other words there was a certain way it was done, and thats the way you did it. Today i see some doing stucco work and holding the edge of the hawk against the wall, and then just pushing the mud from the hawk onto the wall. There are also devices called cheaters used in stucco work, where no hawk or trowel is used at all. I think its called gettin r done, which i guess is all that matters?
Wow, what a great post Mr Forrest. I worked on sites for years, and saw how physically demanding plastering is, but by the sounds of it, it was tougher in the 1950's. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
The main floor of my parent's house was done with rock-lath plaster and I was always impressed with that mirror finish. Reading how much work and skill it entailed, I can see why builders in the USA moved toward taped drywall, especially with the skill gap caused by the depression and WWII. The newest house I've ever seen with rock-lath plaster was built in 1969, so it has become sort of a lost art. I read in 1978 that 90% of new houses had plaster in 1959, but only 10% in 1969. Seems the huge number of buildings in the UK with plastered masonry walls, which have to be redone from time to time, have kept that skillset more alive over there. Here in New England, contractors and upscale builders still employ plastering crews to skim blueboard, but many volume builders just tape drywall. A few years back, a friend of mine was watching a new house go up across the street from him and this Mexican guy came out coated from head to toe in white dust. I know there are safe ways of using any of these systems, but no one bothered to train that guy; his employers were just looking for the lowest rate.
I think 30yrs ago plasterers were actually taught the trade as a whole, not just boarding and skimming nowadays plasterers just learn what they need to know at the time to make money, alot of the tradition has gone in the game, I was taught by a old plasterer who knew the trade inside out plus at that time I also attended college and gained NVQ3 which on paper means nothing but crossed with 20yrs experience of doing all aspects I have alot of respect for the guy who took me under his wing and shouted at me constantly lol I did internal and external absolutely loved it, travelled the whole uk and met some great people alon the way,7 yrs ago i quit and retrained as an engineer but i will never forget the many adventures I went on,if your thinking of doing this for a living you won't be dissapointed............ I watch a lot of this guys videos, and he is top notch reminds me of the guys I used to work with who had alot of passion in there work 👍
I to was taught by a top tradesman, all sand and cement two screeds on every wall leveled then filled in them days, Hessian scrim on the ceilings hard job also done cornice work and external render cornices, all part of the trade then
Glad I found time for one of your videos buddy. Haven't watched lately as I've been so busy. But I've missed watching this world class plastering. Some lovely close-ups in this as well!
As a decorator, I'd be more than happy to follow a spread like you, mate. Some of the guys i used to have to deal with were shocking. I gave up in the end and went back to site work and started spraying. The making good would bring you to tears sometimes though. Nice work mate 👍
In the 70s uk the wet trade where usually done on what was known as the lump .any guy could crack up and do a bit. Usually cash in hand and as the money was absolutely crap they would also be signing on the dole
I got a basic nvq level 2 in plastering when I was 19 and I did it briefly and ended up in something else now at 34 I wish I could get back into it love these videos mate keep it going!!
Love watching these video's kirk. I was a plasterer for 20 years. We never had SBR, hook beads. Or the accelerator and holding back chemical we would do different things back then to set it faster and hold it back. Wish i was a plasterer today. But we would dab those beads, especially if the corners weren't straight.
This video looked hard work but real life. It made me realise perhaps i am doing ok after all, living in a terraced house and possibly facing similar problems. The close up shots were spot on showing the true state of the walls as the coats go on. I agree with other comments though go easy on the music. So many you tubers tend to go down this route I feel it takes away the feel of the video being real and enjoyable to watch.
@@Onthetrowel it never hurts to try new things. It's handling the constructive criticism that is key and you have that nailed too... or is it plastered 😊
Price work came in and that's exactly it Mate! Freehand. The fellah who taught me for a bit Ritchie Milne was a Dab hand. He Served his time on Netherley. On block it was straight, on refurbs not so hot, but other plasterers did not have the trowel skills or the eye but still did not rule in. Hence internals like a dogs leg. Been off the tools for many years and can't help watching. Great vids.
It was the lazy spreads who ruled in floating using only a Darby, rather than properly using a metal feather edge first and then only "flattening" the floating with a Darby ready to scratching.
Stellar job! Love how you moan about that tiny drop on the skirting board as mess 😂 I had a guy plaster my kitchen ceiling once and he covered the kitchen in plaster leaving the clean down to us which by the time we got to it, it had gone off fully so we had a proper job on just to get it all off every including the cooker and hood vent lol
I'm thinking the same thing mate I moved in to my flat just a few months ago it was built in the 1970's lovely flat but the walls are atrocious some better then others my bedroom looks like the surface of the moon lol not to mention the artex ceilings nightmare bloody cowboys I cant wait till its all flat, any way awsome videos love hearing all the tips and tricks of the trade and the banter to lol
your 100 percent right about not having to flatten in after 1st coat as long as your coating is pretty neat,just use the wee bit time it takes the apprentice to mix up 2nd coat to flatten to worst bits
I’m always made up to see a new video of yours Kirk I really enjoy your content, not a massive fan of the music in the back ground i much prefer to hear your advice and chat etc just my thoughts mate! Keep up the good work! 👍
My mate did all my plastering. Cheap as chips but.....the electrical sockets were nearly full of plaster, and as for keeping the windows clean....forget it. 😂😂 Nice to see how it should be done 😉
The bonus system came into play instead of a good decent pay rate the more work produced the more money paid. Plus clerk of works staff declined in numbers.
Ever tried a medi flex trowel? After first flatten? Replicates a good broken in carbon after a few uses. Handy if u gap a carbon. Needs a bit of work to get finishing but doesn't ripple as much as a superflex. Back up spare.
I have the same problem all the time with older houses. Tradesmen where better in the old days my arse! Some of the work I go over is as rough as toast!
What you need to consider, in the 70's there was a building strike and certain people including now celebrities were traveling the country threatening trades, so those trades may have had to get off site quick, or risk getting beat up. Also the plastering these days is crap, my last 3 jobs on houses that range from half a million to one million, the finish there was either old English or Spanish villa, and that's skimming on a flat board, and that's without the risk of getting beat up.
When I was plastering everyday with my mate (started off labouring and within 6 months was on the trowel) we did most things like yourself really , apart from 3 wets and a dry , we used to use a little brush to brush up corners of angles and a twitcher to finish it off on joined walls , I basically learned how to plaster when I installed archways and had to plaster the false wall we’d install for the sweeps to fit over aswell as the underneath and I got pretty good at plastering tbf , wouldn’t say I was fantastic but I could leave a decent finish and always left the job with customers satisfied , also turned my hand at rendering but only as a labourer and laying on for the lad who’s company it was , loved the rendering in the summer and plastering in the winter lol
Yes I’ve plastered for 50 years everything was Browning when I started worked for the same company 05 years day work used to room everything off with a feather edge after price work if you were good The, how you ended up doing it freehand that way you could earn more money
60s Late 70s and early 80s was council estate boom tones of social houseing went up everywhere tones of money to be made get in get out just as quick was the order of the day...not much have changed to be fair Decades of work left to be redone it will out of us lot on the trowle 🍻 Keep pushing fella best of luck Kirk
I am no plasterer, but I can get by with taping and filling. So when it came to my kitchen ceiling needing a relatively small repair, I entrusted it to a retired plasterer, I am guessing he was late 60's. Long story short, he was as fit as a fiddle and he did an awful job, the recessed lights wouldn't sit flush and hollows everywhere. He would have been plastering from the 1980's I would have thought and I bet he ruined a few homes in his time. He did come back and just handed me my money back basically saying I was too fussy, but it was so bad I ended up ripping down the ceiling and taped and filled instead and took the opportunity to get some insulation up in the void as well.
The shoddy work you've straightened out was potentially laid on by someone who'd gone through a six month "fast track access to learning a trade" process (We used to call them "diluties"). Possibly doing their best during the tail end of the 60's building-boom, while chasing bonus work with minimal experience on the tools. Nice work as always Kirk
Here on the Isle of Wight, the plasterers we have working for us are absolutely shocking, the worst ive come across as a chippy with 33 years in the trade. There just isnt enough quality trades here so a very limited pool of good people.
I've lived in a couple of 70s built properties and the plastering was terrible especially the one I live in now it looks like it was plastered with a 8 inch emulsion brush 😂
Alright Kirk, might be a silly question but one that even as a decorator/plasterer I don’t know, do you scrim internal angles on re skies if there’s no cracks? I scrim all of them but don’t wanna be wasting time if it’s not really the done thing. Cheers mate
my house is only 20 years old - the walls are horrendous.... well done persimmon homes.... In some places (corners especially) I could literally plaster it nearer with my fingers!! No joke! If you were reskimming the room in this video in your own house, would you have opted to remove the skirting first, unlike this home owner? Taking them off is generally my preference, as otherwise they get shallower and shallower!!!
Nik I'm with you 100%. I'm trying new stuff to make my vids more interesting, I'm going to can the music and try some other stuff.... Just experimenting 😳
@@Onthetrowel yeah mate give everything a go, I just personally enjoy listening to you working and explaining as you go, that’s more than entertaining enough for me haha. But again mate, brilliant vid
I used to panic like mad plastering and end up rushing making a mess as soon as i got that beat i was flying no mess no stressbis a very true statement
My 1960s house also has pretty uneven original plaster in places. Which makes me wonder how do you know (with a trowel) if the plaster is going on completely flat as you work? Doesn't it just follow the shape of the underlying backing? And if you do detect hollows, how much can you build out with skim plaster?
The Trowel is flat so any hollows caus the corners of the trowel to dig in. Try to imagine dropping a beer mat into a big gin glass, which parts of the beer mat would be touching the glass
Would of give them a tight coat of bonding to build out in the morning, then skimmed if they were that bad, its all in the prep work can only do much with skim as it knly ment got a few mm per coat, been plastering 16 years 👍
We shouldn’t forget plastering done in Lime materials from 1800’s on either! Any old house I’ve worked in/on with those old materials, astounded me just how flat and smooth they were with no silly polished finishes, that are a pig to paint! To me, don’t polish,…just smooth lads please!?
My brother,who was a spred back in the day (a good one too)allways use to say that youll find many as good but few better.That means when you become a good spred,you cant realy get any better.
great video and info, im a retired plasterer , but i just wondered why no one seems to use a spot and stand these days, and uses it out of the bucket, which seems twice the effort, and takes longer than just sweeping it off the spot, just wondered thats all, as ive never used it out of a bucket unless its a patching job..regards
ok no prob just wondered, back in the day skimming was all mixed by hand by a plunger, and browning in a bath by shovel. them were the days!! not... i fkin hated it thank got for cordless power tools.. all the best...@@Onthetrowel
Kirk just a quick one, had a nightmare ceiling today, polystyrene coving down, sbrd the ceiling, then 2 coats of multi over a very shallow artex. First coat went on fine, but as soon as the speed skim touched it, it was congealing and pulling off, so troweled it flat, same with the second coat then it turned rapidly and i was chasing it. Wet and dry trowelling was tearing it. Nightmare especially on a 4 meter high staircase ceiling. Dodgy batch of plaster you think?
Try plastering her in spain kirk and getting a nice finish. Everything here is float and set. Sometimes you have to dab the walls out first to flatten them out.. and that's the inside the outside os mich worse
Hi kirk. What the difference between board finish and multi finish. I only ever see multi finish being put on but saw that you'd used board finish. Cheers, and thanks for the video.
Sets a bit faster... that's pretty much it really. Its not quite as creamy. If someone is learning then they will have an easier time with multi. You can wet it and bring it back a little bit when it's starting to set
Keith just a quick question, I'm going to to put up insulated plasterboard in my mother's house, is there any difference between putting the boards up vertical or horizontal I'm going to Dab them on and take my time. The only problem is there are 9ft ceilings. What should I do. Sorry it wasn't a quick question after all 😂. Niall (Ireland)
Hey mate, aslong as you get them plumb and they are well stuck then it doesn't matter if vertical or horizontal. I find it easier vertical though. P.s. don't forget 2 mechanical fixtures in each board mate. If there's a fire the foam melts and the walls fall in 🔥😳👍
