The fact that you have to option to sell her out knowing full well she’ll be mind-wiped, and then still have the option to guilt trip her for forgetting you, is top tier gaslighting.
Indeed. The fact that she doesn't remember them this time around makes me suspect that, unlike the previous time where part of her resisted the Mirror trying to consume her memories (which is why she still remembers fragments of her past like the night she was kidnapped, Nocturne and the Night Orchids), this time she willingly surrendered all her memories, possibly because your betrayal was just too much for her to bear. :(
She's could be honest here - she doesn't have a favorite flower. She told you that it was back then, because she wanted you to feel appreciated for giving her one. She told you a comforting lie then, and now she has no memory of saying it, so she has no reason to pretend otherwise.
@@LonarYolhala ''She told you that it was back then, because she wanted you to feel appreciated for giving her one'' this is false. She says this far before you even get near any night orchids, let alone giving her one.
@@senittoaoflightning4404 Yeah, see, this is a reason I don't like Shadowheart as much as most players seem to. Call me biased if you want, because I'm definitely guilty of being a Lae'zel fan, but aside from Astarion's introduction and the meeting of Wyll & Karlach, Shadowheart is easily the most antagonistic in regard to infighting and such for a very large chunk of the game, and I could never get past this attitude enough to see why she's (I think) the most romanced party member.
@@Synfang Cause she's the most conventionally attractive. That's why she's the most romanced. Gamers are pretty simple in that way, no shade meant, as I am one of them, but it is what it is.
the night orchi one broke me. You can put a night orchid on a grave and shadowheart is thankful, now she just doesnt know what youre talking about, she loves night orchids
@@goldendew5759 I dont know where per se but i know that a grave exists in act 3 which makes shadowheart feel sad and this person was some kind of trainer for her and if you put a night orchid on it, she says something
I think she actually lost *all* of her memories, even her ones with Nocturne, since her memories with Nocturne are the reason why Night Orchids are her favourite. I think she lost the will to fight back against the mind-wipe, this time around.
You know a choice is messed up when even Minthara, a lolth-sworn drow of House Baenre from Menzoberranzan says that you shouldn't really be doing it. Romancing Shadowheart, setting her on the good path and then ratting her out to the cult is one of the hardest hitting backstab in gaming history, and this "post" scene is there to give a final twist to the already deep cutting knife.
There's another. After betraying Nightsong to Lorroakan, you can persuade Isobel to come to her rescue, just to kill her. Nightsong has to watch her lover die, betrayed by the hand of someone she thought was her friend. And she fucking loses it. This bloody game has ALOT of very evil choises. I generally like evil characters, Sith in SW for example, but man this game takes it to whole another level. Had to watch youtube videos of those choises because i never could click those dialogue options while i was playing, even if i was curious about this game's reactivitiy.
@@Nuisance_Bear pointless cruelty just to appease a god/her chosen by literally sacrificing your own companion? If you dont see the problem here, i dont think you payed any attention to anything Minthara said.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 Even less. A great deal of one's personality is shaped by experience. All that'd be left is your instinctive traits that you got from genes.
@@theworstcatholic7247 About 20% is expierience but thats not going alway. You dont remember what your childhood was like yet it still shapes what youre like. So too if you get amnesia your personality changes a bit but not by much, youre still you you just dont know why you are the way you are.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 I think you underestimate how much experience changes a person. The most calm and reasonable person you know could naturally have a terrible temper, but through experience learned to control it. A joyful person could naturally have a stoic disposition but learned to let loose due to tragic circumstances. You may not remember your early years, but your subconscious does, and this full amnesia that SH has doesn't even seem to have that remain.
@@theworstcatholic7247 Youre expieriences change how the neurons in your brain are set up. Amnesia takes out the payways which enable you to recall past events. It does not change the patways which say how you will respond to a given stimulus when memory plays no part in your response.
“Whoever you think I am… I’m not her” Wow that hurt, and it’s true, the Shadowheart you knew and loved is gone and only her shell remains and it’s your fault
This was so fucking painful to watch! I had to pause after every line of dialogue to endure watching this. Allowing Shadowheart to be turned into a husk and seeing your companions clearly being broken up about it is right up there with giving Scratch to Angry Mar'hyah. No doubt that was one of the fastest reloads and deletes ever for you, Dragon
The worst crime of all - purging someone's mind. You could have just kill her, not much difference given this is no longer Shadowheart. The only more cruel fate is probably lobotomy to make a slave/servitor of sorts.
Okay, after your last video about she dumping us to Shar, I thought that was nothing that could've hurt more. But, congrats, you did it! She not reconizing her favorite flower? A twistIng knife video 😢 Now I know exactly what NOT to do in my playthrough 👍🏻
As Shadowmancer, this is one thing that breaks my heart. It's one of the wickedest things that you can do in the game. To help someone to be better, to support them as their partner, only to then, on the final chapter of the story, stab them in the back. And her words, how she isn't able to recognize you... usually, after Viconia whipped her memory, there was something. There's still a small piece of Shadowheart remaining, I think, but it's burried deep down, and I suspect it would not be able to emerge again. The next over-the-top wicked thing is to help Shadowheart save her parents and then to kill them
Wouldn’t she know that losing her memories could be a possibility, being a former devotee of Lady Shar and all?? Not sure why she’s acting like you couldn’t be telling the truth. Unless they wiped that knowledge too
I seem to recall Shadowheart being surprised to learn it's a mirror that removes her memories, even though her note from before her last memory wipe says they're going to make her "look in the mirror" again. She also initially believes she's only had her memories wiped for her mission and that they'll be restored once she completes it, which is false. Nocturne confirms she's had her memory wiped many times already and had to rebuild her memories each time, and also that this isn't normal practice even for the Sharrans. In this scene it's probable Viconia removed her knowledge that memory-wiping is even a thing in the cult so she would be easier to mould back into a Sharran. Our urging Shadowheart to recall her erased memories helped break her out of the cult - Viconia wouldn't want her to know there even _are_ memories she's lost in case it happens again.
Shadowheart is basically a chosen of Selune. That's why her mind needs frequent Winter Soldier scrambling, because she isn't a Shar follower, she is inherently a Selunite. That's why she may talk the evil talk in the first act, but actually you get approval by doing good things, which doesn't add up for a Shar follower. Her connection to Selune is so strong that she basically defaults back to a Selunite morality after a time, which is why her Mind requires constant wiping. Looks like this time they really threw her memories into the blender.
I’d be curious to know what timeline was canon for Viconia. Based on her behavior now I would it’s safe to say she never romanced Gorion’s Ward. I cannot imagine the Viconia I romanced doing this to anyone’s love life, let alone her adopted daughter’s. 😂
Oooh good point, I know Aerie and her really don’t like each other, but unlike Anomen they won’t try and kill her, so I guess she traveled with them for a while, and eventually she was kicked and def was not romanced to chaotic neutral by the player character!
This is why she shouldn't have been in the game, at least not like this. Pretty disrespectful to the players to rewrite their choices in previous games. This could easily have been a bespoke character. A shame as they did a great job with the other returning characters. I have to headcanon that Shar found Viconia and rewrote her memories, deleting her romance and alignment change.
@@LordBilliam I don’t think it’s an issue at all, it doesn’t erase any of you things you do in the previous games, and it’s cool to have the cameo, it’s just like Minsc and Jahera, or saverok for that matter.
Giving her to Viconia is the most terrible choice in the game for me. Other evil choices we at least get some kind of reward or power either in game sense or narrative sense, but giving SH you get nothing. Maybe you get to be allied with Viconia but she didn’t promise anything before hand. So, it’s most likely just you just choose to lose a companion without expecting anything in return which is another kind of evil.
Real talk, nothing has made me so angry that I could manage to go Super Saiyan more than seeing just how fucked up this scene is. Gotta give props to the devs for being so cruel to actually come up with this storyline.
I wonder what happens if you keep the noblestalk this long and give it to her to restore her memories? I don't think I'll ever be able to make myself do this, although maybe on my Horrible Durge Run...
Yo imagine an option where you actually do give her the noblestalk and you can get one chance to restore her memories by getting her to remember her favorite flower. Then after panicking over just how much she's forgotten, she realizes just how hard she's been messed with and she absolutely goes BALLISTIC on the rest of the cult.
There are a lot of choices like this in the game with different characters that they could have made achivements just to see how many people would never get all achivements because of it. Call them a set of achivements like heartless achivements, because you can't have a heart to get them.
Tav playing the ultimate reverse UNO card on Shar though, removing her chosen and leaving her stuck with Viconia (who I just feel bad for, I’m sorry) 😂
I just wish we can use the tadpole to remind her of your romantic past that she has forgotten so we can destroy her mind even more. And yes, including how you sold her out.
Not agreeing with the whole "destroy her mind some more" bit but it's an unfortunate railroad of the story to not let you double cross Viconia. People were constantly praising the game for letting people get away with out of the box ideas like cheesing a puzzle with boxes but the actual choices you can make outside of combat kinda suck
600+ hours and i didnt even realize/consider this option. Diabolical. Ive done all the good endings and bad endings the romanced endings and the durge endings but never sold out Shadowheart Astarion or made gale use the orb. Crazy
After BG2 Vicona DOES defy Shar and travels with Drizzt Do'Urden so it's possible sharrans eventually kidnap her and use the mirror on her, this makes sense as Vicona abandoned Lolth after refusing to sacrifice a child there is no way Vicona would kidnap a child and torture them for Shar.
plot twist. She remembers everything, but this her doing the ultimate fuck you for selling her out and betraying her, as for the illithid bit, well she's used top using the illithid as well and just beat your roll.
@@SonicMegaKingthere's nothing wrong with him lmfao. it's just a shit choice there for the sake of being there like a lot of the evil choices. i'm glad this game has that freedom though.
@@dvorah7516 Why would you get her back? She's completely mind wiped and doesn't even know who you are. Plus Viconia is jealous of her being favored by Shar, this is why she was sent on the suic!de mission to retrieve the artifact, so she will most likely just seek more opportunities to get rid of her again.
The more i watch Baldursgate videos the more I think it's all just a oh how i wish i could have played a Skyrim the Witcher amalgamation and 20 years of Skyrim mods. I just cant get into Baldurs gate, characters are just so flat and al been done before despite all he effort to not make them like that.
