I think it's great, and underrated. To make it more functional for self defense I think you need to occasionally practice 1) closing the distance against someone trying to punch you with boxing gloves, 2) do newaza occasionally against someone trying to punch you wearing bag gloves or MMA gloves, and 3) avoid the turtle like the plague and work on your guard!
Thank you Stephan, I greatly appreciate your response as well as insight into martial arts! Much respect, I wish you well in your future endeavors and please keep the videos coming, I greatly enjoy them!
Great video as always, I completely agree pressure testing is not utilised enough in traditional arts or properly in most reality based self protection (I agree with your groin or eye gouge point) and as you say early stages of combat sports are not much better.
Judo is a good sport, but as a fighting style it's not complete... Combine Judo with an MA that provides a solid stand-up game (Muay thai for instance) and you're good to go. Otherwise you'd need to rely on chance or luck to actually get a hold of your enemy without getting knocked out beforehand.
This type of experience is what eventually led me to bjj. I thought my karate base was pretty solid, but live sparring with a wrestler made me take a long hard look at my training. Now, I didn’t just abandon everything I’d learned, but I realized that not all of my techniques were practical.
Glad my first striking place, Kenpo, made it mandatory to spar at least once before I could earn my first belt. The idea of black belts that never spared with hard contact just sounds silly.
yea, once to earn the first belt. They had sparing every Friday. And my belt test wasn't just spar with one person, it was a couple hours of sparing with everyone in the dojo. As for the other belt requirements I don't know what they involve. I moved out of the area and started doing BJJ and kick boxing.
This is so frustrating. This video is going to bounce right off of the people who need to take it in the most. Everyone's going to say "They must not have trained REAL kenpo..."
This is one of the dangers of TMA. After being forced by my parents to do Tae Kwon do, I would still walk around school in fear that someone would pick a fight with me. Sure I had a black belt but I wasn't stupid. I knew I only had it because I could memorize kata and break fragile boards. I had zero confidence because I knew that I wasn't prepared for the real world. I don't like fighting and I'm not passionate about martial arts but if I was forced to practice something, I would've liked to practice something that would've given me confidence growing up.
Coming from a background in MMA,boxing, kickboxing, and Rugby. I recommend Sparology, its effective without taking damage, you teach people to tag each other without causing damage. Sparing hard is a waste and getting brain damaged is not good. Learn how to properly spar safely. Dont ever go to a boxing gym to spar they will hurt you bad, spar safely & roll safely. Are you will be severely injured
When I was in the military reserves, we had to do the Physical Fitness Test, which consisted of push-ups, sit-ups and a 2-mile run. A lot of people would train for the 2-mile run by going on their home treadmill rather than actually going outdoors to run. The ones who trained on the treadmill would fail the 2-mile run because the treadmill is a lot different than running on a non-moving surface like a dirt road or pavement. I trained by running through all sorts of terrain like mud, gravel, sand, dirt, pavement, concrete, grass. I was able to still ace my 2-mile run when PT people made us run through gravel. A lot of people weren't prepared for that. But I was! :D
In my opinion if it doesn't focus on full-contact sparring or competition then it's not martial-arts. It's just arts. Martial means combat. If there is not combat, it's not martial.
Oh yeah? So how does traditional Japanese schools that were used in wars didn't have sparring? Like kukihsin Ryu, Takagi ryu jujutsu, etc. were they useless? If they were why were they teached for people kill each other?
I believe that simple is always better since your fine motor skills are shut down during a stressful situation anyway boxing is an excellent foundation for standup combat it's simple and to the point nothing fancy.
I love this. Kenpo guys are supposed to be sparring regularly and many of the senior practitioners in American Kenpo have gone on record to say that Kenpoists would benefit quite a bit from learning BJJ/grappling arts as well (see Michael Miller's book, 'Kenpo Perspectives' for citations). Thank you!
Great video, a really great one. While yes I trained in the past, and Sensei said "do this do that", I can't help but remember his words (and other people in the serious realm of martial arts) advice: "but... avoid, really avoid if possible" and this included avoiding potentially dangerous situations (as in some bars, clubs, streets, etc) as the principle of self defense.
We had also a lot of sparring in Hapkido already 15 years ago with very minimal rules, like striking/kicking on the ground. However, this was probably because one of our instructors had background in Muay Thai and shootfighting. I don't really get this traditional martial arts shaming from grown up people. I remember hearing this a lot as a kid: "judo is shit because I do karate and we break bricks with our hands!" Most people don't want to fight in the UFC, and no matter how much you spar, you will probably get hospitalized in a street fight anyway if the other person would carry even a small a concealed knife and has some experience using it. Then again, if he didn't carry a knife, he'd probably be so drunk that you could beat him even though you had practiced only katas for five years. If Fedor Emelianenko attacks you at the grill queue, you'll end up in a wheelchair with all your joints rotating 360 degrees, no matter how much you have sparred.
When people refer to TMA's that don't spar, more often than not they're referring to Chinese systems or styles that are often full of mysticism and bullshido. Obviously, this can include some styles of karate, as many of them don't spar. However, it's more about how these systems teach their delivery. For example, kicks work fine when you have good fighting fundamentals, but if you're learning within a system that never lets you spar, you'll have no idea behind the timing and power it takes to put someone down. That said, even the sparring in TKD is limited. Yet, I would venture to say it's much better than many systems that preach deadly techniques that are never employed.
I do ITF style Tae Kwon Do where punches are allowed and its full contact, so its pretty much kickboxing with no kicks below the belt. WTF style is what you see in the Olympics, with just kicks. I studied Kyokushin Karate too which also had full contact sparring. I agree the teacher matters just as much as the style, as do the training methods. There are great fighters using Karate and Tae Kwon Do like Sage Northcutt, Wonderboy, Anthony Pettis, Yair Rodriguez and Connor McGregor and obviously legends like Anderson Silva, GSP, Bas Rutten and Lyoto Machida. I understand questioning the effectiveness of things like Aikido and Kung Fu, but clearly styles like Karate, Tae Kwon Do and even Judo are an effective part of many MMA fighters arsenal, so I don't understand the blanket TMA bashing rampant in MMA today. Respect to the traditional styles!
With all due respect, all those fighters you mentioned aren't using karate, kung-fu, etc... as their base. They're first and foremost mixed martial artists who have a background in those traditional arts. It doesn't mean they have revolved everything around their traditional arts, only that they came from those backgrounds. It still doesn't say much about TMAs being effective on their own. There's no need to respect styles that claim certain things. If anything, it's disrespectful to lie about what something is or isn't, which is what many TMAs have been doing for years. And actually, it's not the MMA community that cares about what TMAs can or cannot do, it's people who grew up believing all the BS and finally realized it was all fake.
Truth Guy I never said they're effective on their own, but it's disingenuous to say those fighters don't use their traditional styles heavily in their fighting. Their stances, footwork, kicks, timing all heavily Karate and based. They've just added Jiu Jitsu, Wrestling or Boxing on top to round out their game. Anderson Silva and Yair Rodriguez literally fight like Tae Kwon Do fighters. Machida and Bas Rutten fought like Karate fighters. Connor McGregor moves like a Karate fighter and heck even uses Wing Chun boxing. That's why hes such an unusual and frustrating fighter; he trains in something others have written off as useless. I'm just saying clearly there's some use in those styles if high level fighters make them an integral part of their game. Sage Northcutt and Stephen Thompson are probably the best example of fighters who vocally credit their traditional background for their fighting ability.
I agree with everything you say, but I have a question: what if you train a system like Silat that is heavily dependent on elbow strikes, twisting the head, unpleasant throws, etc? How do you spar those techniques without injuring your partner? I have a class, for example, in which almost everyone is over 60. They're not 20 year olds who can take heavy blows and recover in a day. And if you exclude those techniques, then doesn't every sparring session just end up looking like boxing and BJJ?
Sabeel Combatives I'd suggest a person over 60 isn't doing it to become the next world champ, exercise, flexibility and balance are all good reasons for a older person to train martial arts, maybe you need to find another dojo if its not fitting your needs
Ner'Zhul, it's my class - I am the teacher :-) I'm questioning Stephan as to how he suggests incorporating "aliveness" or sparring into the class when the students are older and more prone to injury, and the techniques themselves are more destructive.
Sabeel Combatives: here are a few of my thoughts on your remarks. "...what if you train a system like Silat that is heavily dependent on elbow strikes..." Many of the sporting goods vendors for combat sports sell padded coverings for the elbows so that people can train elbow strikes without mauling each other. I would provide you with a link, but there are many different kinds, and I'm not sure what would be best for anything you would want to try, so I will leave it to you to look into it, but a quick Google search should bring up several options that might be worth your consideration. "...twisting the head, ..." I'm not sure what this means. What are the head-twisting techniques supposed to achieve? If you mean to imply that they are meant to break a person's neck, how do you know that they will ever work on a resisting opponent, or even a non-resisting opponent? The reason I ask is because I don't know of many scenarios where a person could actually break someone's neck and not suffer any legal repercussions. The point I'm trying to make is that if anyone claims to be capable of performing a martial arts technique that will either kill or maim an opponent, I very seriously doubt that they are capable of performing that technique with the intended results because they don't have the means to train it in a repeatable way. "... unpleasant throws..." What do you mean by "unpleasant" throws? If you're referring to throws where the uke is thrown with force, you can mitigate the damage that people experience in training by having a proper grappling surface to work on (mma/wrestling mats, crash pads, etc) and by having your students train breakfalls or ukemi. If you are referring to throws that are intended to break things in the course of the throw, my criticism of that is the same as my criticism about techniques that involve "twisting the head": how can students actually be sure that they can perform such a move effectively if they don't have a means to drill it without destroying each other's bodies? "How do you spar those techniques without injuring your partner? I have a class, for example, in which almost everyone is over 60. They're not 20 year olds who can take heavy blows and recover in a day. And if you exclude those techniques, then doesn't every sparring session just end up looking like boxing and BJJ?" I think the point that a lot of martial artists who don't use "alive" training methods get wrong about sparring is that it's not about hurting each other or "getting tough". The point of sparring is to test your execution of techniques in an environment where you have to use your skills against a resisting opponent in real time. I currently do grappling, but before that, I was involved in striking arts. I often sparred with my training partners, and we never ended up harming each other during training. We used the appropriate safety gear (cup, boxing or MMA striking gloves, headgear, mouthguard, shin and foot protectors), and we never went in with the intent to brutalize each other. If we were having a bad day or didn't feel like going full-bore, we just dialed down the intensity a little. Were those lower-intensity sessions exactly like a real physical altercation? No. But it was still better than only drilling our techniques on a compliant opponent, executing pre-determined routines, or shadowboxing. Even in a light or medium-contact sparring situation (continuous; not point sparring), you get to test your timing, distance, conditioning, and how well you execute your techniques under pressure, and I think that's worth its weight in gold. Another possibility you might find useful would be "situational sparring", which is something that we sometimes do in BJJ. This is where you still resist each other, but you focus on a specific situation. As an example of how this might apply to striking, perhaps you might do some sparring where one person uses a limited number of techniques to attack, and the other person defends. The benefit that situational sparring has over full sparring is that if people aren't ready to deal with the full gamut of techniques yet, they can train what they do know against a resisting opponent without having to defend against moves that they don't know yet (or don't know how to safely "receive", if we're talking about something like judo throws) and possibly getting injured from being hit with a surprise technique. Sorry for the long length of this comment; I hope you will find some of these suggestions useful, or at least thought-provoking.
Brilliant. What He says is completely on the button. You could know all the theories in the world and even have devastating skills but unless you have real world experience it counts for NOTHING. That fear/apprehension you have before a fight can and for most untrained people be very debilitating. De-sensitizing through pressure testing is the only end result of any martial arts i believe.
Great video. I dove in in the 90s I was into joint locks and thought there was nothing else, until, BJJ/ Judo and wrestling. I was the guy that went through those phases. Now I love being the one changing perception. Love this!!
This video needs to be watched by every traditional martial artist! Great explanation and a great warning to people that may not be sparring with their art.
Each and every single word is true. Fighting is not dancing. Often fights don't look good. Become a good boxer with footwork and an idea of positioning to survive at first. Adding some dirty things is not a big deal for a boxer. Give a boxer some grappling and you have a dangerous fighter. My few bad days on street were cleared in one or two secounds, but my hands were slightly injured. One of them was a dancer by the way. Unfair cause I had to lough.
Many good points. I am old now and started in the late 60s. In those days real fighting was taught. I started in judo and then moved to some of the striking styles for a long time. Intermixed I went to a boxing gym and trained as well. it did not take long to find out that a fist at the side would not work in the ring. The PKA came along and full contact karate showed basically boxing with kicks. elbows or throws were not allowed. The fighting arts were headed towards more realism by the late 70s. Then it stopped. The big fear was litigation. There were some large lawsuits due to injuries and the teachers backed off. Most of us it was a part time thing and we were not looking at making a living from it. So we got this watered down version that has no sparring and they teach forms and a few obsolete weapons. myself I quit teaching. I was not about to do it and got out of it
What I don't really understand is how 'traditional' martial arts practitioners reached the point where they need to be told this. 'Back in the day' they used to spar, and to fight for real. Somewhere along the way this tradition of practice by doing got lost. I train Tang Soo Do (relatively modern but still considered a TMA) but am lucky that my master makes us spar week in, week out. Our Grand Master used to fight plenty as a young man, perhaps a little too much according to some, so that mentality still exists in our club. Even from my first days sparring I realised TSD punches kinda suck, so I train boxing to supplement it, they work nicely together. Without sparring I'd have been training a delusional style.
I agree 100% , learning kicks and punches while standing in a line in class against an imaginary opponent is one thing . Actually applying those skills in a real fight is another . Just as you said , my first time sparring I resorted to instinct and forgot all I had learned . After I regularly sparred for awhile I began retaining my skills and applying them correctly . Actual fighting and training are very different from each other .
Hi Stephan, Cool video; I've been training in Taekwondo for the last 5 years and we do sparring regularly and I can safely say that first sparring is a very rough experience. in terms of technique going out the window I've found that planning is pretty much useless as more often than not I get the shit kicked out of me; I can SORT OF remember certain tactics/techniques and I can use them but it's as you said if someone is trying to do to me what I'm trying to do to them it's a lot harder. Thanks for not totally trashing traditional martial arts styles; I've seen so many videos similar to this one where the guys just shred TMA without any knowledge of the style they're ripping into so it's always nice to see someone who actually does know a thing or two - well done and keep 'em coming!
Make sure you check out the instructors lineage... where he got his training from and what belt he has... If they are training people that fight in the cage, that is usually a good gauge if the style you're looking at works. Also a good BJJ club that also does MMA or some striking is preferred, so you know that it's not just sport BJJ and you can actually modify it for the streets or do some other forms of mixed martial arts at the club. DO IT - I DARE YOU ... :) you won't regret it if you can get past the 1 month to 6 month mark :) Most can't make it though... it can get a little rough on the body if you're not used to it. Find a competent black belt in BJJ and go train and travel across the city to get there... it's well worth it. Good luck if you do decide to do it
Finally some guy who talks sense what ever happened to bare knuckle fighting in my opinion it’s one of the most effective martial arts and like mike Tyson used to say everyone has a plan till the get hit
Hi stephan. Just a quick question. Im a 35 yr old bjj student. Not athletic. I check some jiu jitsu school but teach sport jiu jitsu. I try to enroll but quit because i got injured on the 5th day of sparring. Litterally first day of bjj they put me in a rolling sparring and this young buck kick my ass in the mat. Question i found a bjj who teach a Gracie style jiu jitsu. Im thingking i want to learn first the basic staff self defence before sparring like for atleast 4 months. What do you think of it? Thanks
that's why i consider that one should always learn to spare before learning any style. the sad part is that most of those techniques that don't work anymore in sparring are not bullshit, but the practitioners only mastered the forms, not how to fight with them. from my experience, systema does the best job you could get without sparring to prepare yourself for fighting. the first time i did ground work was in judo, i had never done any grappling, my only experience in sparring was from tkd, and i just knew the principle of armbars and chokes from systema. the guy in front of me was a black belt slightly heavier than me, and he spent the whole 5min (though, he was going soft on me the first minute) of sparring to pass my "defense" (i can't call what it was at that time a guard while keeping a straight face). with the little bit of grappling principles we see in systema, i knew how to protect my arms and neck while staying balanced. the most troubling thing for me was to not put my hands on the face, because i was used to turning the head around to create space.
Way back in the 80's that was exactly what our teacher taught us. Spar but only full contact. Your correct, you don't know until you spar. We were also taught not to go into tournaments because there were too many rules. Some did, and lost because of the Karate Kid kind of tournaments where you can't strike here or there.
LMAO!! Nice shirt to wear for this talk. I have been there and done that. That is why I started boxing and muay thai as a teenager, before BJJ 4 life. Because everything else I learned never worked in the streets.
I noticed when watching lots of kung fu fights, especially wing chun. They normally revert to slap fests and really bad wrestling. It almost never looks like what they trained.
Your example of all the fancy techniques being useless is one of the reasons I'm thankful I don't go to a bs gym. And you're right about pressure testing. Fairly light sparing has helped immensely.
Excellent video. The only martial arts I did that improved my ability to really fight were boxing, muay thai and BJJ. Traditional karate might improve your fitness and skills by about 10% and the Krav Maga I did had that issue mentioned about pretend eye gouges and groin strikes as though after one eye gouge or groin strike the opponent would disappear in a puff of smoke!
At my gym we train to go only 45% when sparring (mainly because every one either goes to tourneys regularly or cage fight ) we have a mixture of mma , tkd , bjj, judo, and wrestling ( I for one am a 2nd Dan in tkd and strong mma/bjj background ) we all respect one another when sparring and know when too much contact is enough . I we've had muay Thai guys show up to our gym to train and for the most part it goes well until they get to agresdive then they get put in their place. The biggest issue now is for whatever reason people think one art is better than the other when in reality its what fits the artist. I for one hate single and double leg takdowns and prefer trips, tosses and throws . That doesn't mean the other wrestlers I train with I'm going to bash just because they never seem easy to me same with Thai fighters , I've noticed many lack respect that tkd karate and many other arts teach
As a previous boxer I can say everyone can punch but what is most important is learning to block hits, 80% is learning not to get hit. Martial arts focus on striking.
The reason I left karate and went to Taekwondo. In tkd - lots of free sparring, Less kata and a wide varety of techniques: low checking kicks, sweeps, spin backfist, jab, cross, double kicks. In my 1st month I received - full power spin back in the ribs, spin backfist in face, spin hook in the adams apple, and a axe kick that made me shorter. This was 1970's ITF tkd - not the olympic no punch style.
Absolutely correct! Good to see someone telling the truth on the limitations of traditional martial arts. If you do not spar that allows head punching you kidding yourself.
Better to get beat up in the dojo than on the street. I have a Capoeira background, another traditional art that many don't take seriously. After I started learning Muay Thai and started doing more sparring, I too inevitably left a lot of techniques out. But also left some things in. I figured if I ever do get beat up I'd rather have it be in training than some thug on the street who's hell bent on my destruction.
So True, SO TRUE !!! I too have trained in Shao-lin Kem po and also Jow-ga, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Aikido and Nan Tan Lan ( secret family style of southern Praying Mantis) and a semester of Aikido in college. I like to tell people that I got an A in Aikido ! ;-) But, you are so correct! First day if Wing Chun training we were free fighting. It the one style I've had the least amount of training in and the style I immediately revert to. All because of actual fighting ( not brawling). Our Sifu welcomed students from other styles to train under him. He wanted us to be able to defend against and defeat other stylists. Because of that, my skill level quickly escalated. There is no substitute for actual sparring, scrapping, fighting - whatever you want to call it. Oh, we didn't wear pads, except for the we elbow pads we wore on the inside of our arms to protect against welts from soft blocks.
Remember an instructor boasting that his Korean style had over 500 techniques. I thought to myself, how could anyone possibly remember all these moves when suddenly attacked & under great pressure. While I would be thinking which one to use my attacker would be beating me into next week. I believe it is much better to have a few techniques honed under the pressure of sparring. You have to be able to fight under the worst of conditions in a split second. Thanks for just telling it like it really is.
We adapted MMA for self defense more or less and eye gouges, while being a useful tool, are way too overrated in many self defense systems. Using eye gouges so he backs to the side a little making it easier to trap and roll? Go ahead! Using it to make him think about something else as you are trying to go for a choke? Great idea! But don't give me that "I am in a terrible position, but now I did an eye gouge so I won"-bullshit.
I've eye gouged in a fight, but I'm not a martial artist (traditional). Kickboxing, wrestling, and submission grappling. I had a dominate position, and because the guy attacked me with a steering wheel lock (and hit me with it) I eye gouged the shit out of him while grappling with him. I grabbed the side of his face and shoved my thumb SO FAR into his eye. I didn't need training in it :P That's why having the dominate position is the most important.
Scottius Maximus Well there are a few thing about eye-gouging you can actually train. Most peoples first try to eye-gouge can be easily prevented. If you are only going for one eye with forward pressure he just turns his head and you slip off. But this is really just a minor thing. If your eye-gouges suck that just weakens 2 or 3 things you could do. If your positioning sucks you are simply screwed.
Scottius Maximus: I do security work for bars and events and eye gouging doesn't work too well on someone who knows what they are doing. I've been eye gouged and all it did to me was make me treat the guy really badly. I did things to him I would never do to someone in the club because they are considered "dick moves". I've also put someone in an arm bar and they bit me... I then ripped apart his shoulder and elbow, which I normally wouldn't have cranked it so badly.... I could do all those things in a fight, but I choose to take people out with as little damage as possible. If they try that stuff on me though, I can be extras nasty.
Benjamin O'Neal I cannot recommend that at all. Reputation of a system is not doing shit for you if you are in trouble. MMA might be a sport that is not ideal for the street. Otherwise there wouldn't have been any need for us to "adapt" it. But a "sport" that does work is still better than a self deception program that does not.
Benjamin O'Neal said _"MMA isn't a self defense"_ MMA stands for mixed martial arts ... lol - it's a blend of all the best martial arts that work in real world environments... it's used for self defense and the US military uses most of the arts that work in MMA for the basis of their combatives program. BJJ is used to get back to your feet or control someone... you know that ground stuff that you think is useless?? lol Go learn about MMA and specifically BJJ from this Navy Seal ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SGpDVCkhtD4.html
That part about the tendency of some traditional martial artists wanting to test their art on the streets was spot on. Those arts that don't focus on realistic training seem to create insecure and unstable personalities with a need to constantly prove themselves
I wanted to say you have done a great job of expressing your views on a few topics regarding bjj self defense and now this one. You are 100 percent correct on how people do not pressure test there techniques. Its not the technique you need the training methods of bjj and mma to develop the skills to make the techniques work thats the difference. Also my opinion I believe that most self defense people need to train mma, or bjj as a base first then go back to add self defense 2nd. That way they will truly know what really works. I honestly found out when I where training jkd concept compared to training mma its a different world with the training method so great job on this video.
If someone is moving towards you throwing crazy punches and your going backwards can you throw a kick? Anything that's banned in boxing is also good for defence and be the aggressor as usually the most aggressive in the fight wins.
When I started karate back in the day, I had done some wrestling in college, but had very little fighting experience outside the schoolyard. Because of this I was a blank canvas that was painted by good teachers (Jim Stewart, now 10th Dan). I had no habits, let alone bad ones. We started sparring as green belts (first promotion), and the sparring was very realistic with no equipment other than a cup. I was in Indianapolis, Chicago, and Columbus and sparred with students of Bill Wallace, J T Will, and Joe Lewis among others. Pretty lucky I guess.
+Docinaplane No shit you were lucky! Those guys were pioneers of full contact fighting in the US. Talk about hardcore training. I believe you guys were tough as nails and sparred hard with that list of names! If every Karate style followed the teachings of those guys, we'd have a whole generation of Karate style stand up in MMA and kickboxing.
Scottius Maximus Yes, things were different then. I never signed any contract, and if injured, we toughed it out and didn't expect to blame anyone. If there were people who were excessively injuring students, the head instructors adjusted their attitudes. Honestly though, I was scared every time I entered the dojo :-)
Docinaplane, You and I came from the same background of fighters. Bill Wallace (Great guy and great sense of humor), Moses Powell, Ronald Duncan, Vic Moore, Joe Hayes Louis Delgado, Ron Marchini, Ed McGrath, Dennis Bootle, John Kuhl, just to name a few. I studied under Allen Steen in Dallas in 1971. He showed no mercy in class, and sparring was hard and fast. For anyone desiring a video, look up these names of these fighters. Study the history of Martial arts in the 1960s and early 1970s to better understand how training was. It will give you insight
100% true. Sparring also helped me find out what works _for me_. Japanese JiuJitsu (my background) has a huge selection of techniques (and so do a lot of other martial arts). Some of those don't come naturally to me, or don't fit my own personal fighting style. By sparring you really learn to develop and find those techniques that are the ones that work the best for you. So yeah, great advice: go spar everybody.
wheels have been modified a lot in the the last 200 years so I guess the wheel is a modern creation too... btw if you know any thai language or culture you will know that Muay Thai is the unarmed form of the ancient art of Krabi Krabong and has existed along side since the beginning. Muay Thai is a new name because Thailand is a new name for the country, don't confuse nomenclature for history and facts, yours truly, a Nak Muay.... Mai pen rai, farang.
1000% yes. I practice karate, bjj, and kung fu. And tbh, you need to practice to see how you would react in a fight. And once you get hit, only the most simplest principles work.
you are 100% correct . but the definition of sparring depends on the person and I have even see people who barely touch each other call it sparring . sparring in my eyes means you are basically fighting the guy with 70-80% intensity and you try to hit each other without any set movement patterns unlike in certain drills or technical sparring which are good too but they are only an exercise and dont replace actual sparring . if there are not occasional nose bleedings and black eyes etc. then it is not real sparring to me
Understanding how techniques feel and apply into actual combat is critical -- just knowing how to make the technique work is not enough, and just knowing how to make it look smooth is not enough (or even a concern; the concern is effectiveness). This means sparring with resistance is essential to training. I have a friend who, some years ago, was taking Jujitsu classes. He wanted to demonstrate to me one of his wrist lock take-downs. But he did not understand, because he was not shown by his instructor, a rather large number of key details -- how to safely attempt the technique without taking a strike for his trouble, how to "force" the technique past resistance, and what to do instead when it was clear the technique was about to fail. I showed him one moment in a fight where he might attempt the wrist grab, a few things that I (his attacker) would on reflex try to do in reply to his attempt, how to recognize and handle each one as he delivered the take-down, and what to go for instead when the wrist-lock failed to avoid losing control of the fight and/or getting struck with a major attack (aka hooking punch, elbow, knee, or kick from set position). I read through the comments here saying a number of Eastern martial arts fail in sparring -- spoiler, they don't. Instructors might fail to teach their art effectively (leading to students that cannot apply techniques in real combat), but the techniques themselves can be extremely effective especially when taught on top of a more pragmatic base of natural fighting footwork and punching. If you learn boxing and wrestling (basically "scrapping") and then learn another martial art afterward, you are incorporating knowledge rather than trying to use it as your foundation -- when you incorporate, all martial arts are effective. I grew up roughhousing with my friends. We beat each other up for fun, and in doing so learned the basics about what works and what doesn't. When you scrap, you learn footwork and range. You learn the basics of how to throw someone down or avoid being thrown down yourself. You learn where you can hold on and how to free your arm or your head when grabbed. It's not precise like formal training, but you do get a good feel for fighting and lose your fear of it. I have studied a number of martial arts at this point in my life, some of them closely. In pretty much every art I see where they work, why they work, and why they might fail when misapplied. I'd like to share a few observations: Aikido is actually quite deadly -- most people laugh at it because it's almost always taught in such a pacifist way (as a sort of spiritual path rather than a martial path), but the way Aikido operates would allow a vicious person to cripple you in seconds (far more than a punch or kick can reliably do). The art itself is not at fault for why it fails in combat. People don't often realize that Aikido is a favored art among bouncers, because it functions well to control people and keeps you in a standing position as you do so (to be alert for other people around you who might also try to harm you). Aikido is pretty much the only martial art you can learn that can be effective against multiple skilled attackers -- something better respected arts such as MMA training and boxing cannot say. Personally I consider Aikido to be the best martial art out there (wrist locks aside; these are the weakest and least useful techniques in the Aikido arsenal and over-trained at the expense of time on other ones). Wing Chun is fantastic when properly taught and incorporated into a more natural understanding of fighting. Wing Chun is an ambush art more than a martial art; you overwhelm a would-be attacker before they can set their stance or begin to attack you. It does not have a good response in-system against faster hooking punches, but when applied more naturally (using the knowledge but not always the form) instead of strictly (as if fighting another Wing Chun fighter) does not need one. A straight punch to the bicep shuts down a hook punch. Most Wing Chun practioners do not do this, and that's 80% of why they struggle against boxing techniques. Against anyone who isn't a skilled boxer, Wing Chun can be incredibly effective. I do feel that Wing Chun needs to incorporate Ninjitsu/boxing footwork into its art if it wishes to evolve into a better version of itself. Kung Fu and Tae Chi are both criticized as overly elaborate dance fighting, and impractical. But this comes from a gross misunderstanding of them, as it is easy to mimic/exaggerate their techniques but harder to actually know how to apply them in combat. Most people attempting to demonstrate these arts don't actually know them; they only know how to make their techniques look pristine, and not how to apply them in combat. Tae Chi is similar to Aikido when applied in combat, flowing around the attacker's limbs and attacking the attacker's balance to quickly end the conflict without killing the attacker (although crippling the attacker is quite easy, when such violence is needed). Kung Fu is actually a lot like MMA training when applied in combat -- movement and stance are fluid, defenses and counters are simple, and the emphasis is on speed with good mechanics more than on looking pretty. There is a reason that Bruce Lee evolved his Kung Fu rather than abandon it for a different way of fighting. I should probably also add, concerning Kung Fu, that things like "tiger claw" and "eagle claw" have a purpose. Those hand positions are not ornamental or inferior, but useful for certain applications of technique. One simple example I might give is that a tiger claw is a palm strike to the face that is also an eye gouge. Another example might be that an eagle claw is the best hand position to grab and hold onto parts of the arm that are too large to grab other ways (such as onto the bicep muscle). The odd position of the praying mantis hand allows for a simple upward finger thrust into the solar plexus, and with it you can drop a grown man with almost no application of force if you strike the correct spot. The movements of the snake hand are how you break out of a wrist lock quickly, and those same movements are also part of Wing Chun (although interpreted in a a different way) as a way to open/close striking lines while grappling. There's actually not that much nonsense out there. There are a lot of bad instructors, but very few bad arts.
I studied in Danzan Ryu Jujitsu for about 4 years (incorporates mostly Judo and old fashioned Jujitsu). My Sensei incorporated a lot of wrestling into the curriculum as well... we grappled live and the end of every class. Because of these classes I'm very proficient on the ground in an octagon (I've been training BJJ for about a year now, and I am able to keep up with the 4 year fighters. Most traditional martial arts would be effective if they TRAINED LIVE at LEAST once a week, preferably more.
This is more saying that if the muscle memory you have for your techniques isn't contextualized into actual sparring, then you're going to have a very hard time applying those techniques when there's pressure. That's mostly why it's better to start beginners off with lower intensity sparring, so they start to develop the right kind of reactions. As educational as the sparring match may have been for the two people in this example, it may have been more beneficial to start their matches at a lower intensity, so they can train the use of their techniques in the proper context before having to worry about the extra pressure, and from that point slowly build the intensity of their sparring matches. Otherwise you get instances like this, where someone essentially has a panic reaction to getting hit.
I think that was great at the Kung Fu(club?gym?) I went to since they had Sanda/Sanshou aswell. So well I started in Sanda then after a while I tried out some Kung Fu to expand my fighting. And the Qinna(?) got me to start with SW ^^ TLDR you could spar at the Sanda session aswell as Kung Fu
This was my experience the first time I sparred. I did well on the pads, but once I got hit, I got “happy feet”, and I found myself jittering all around the floor. It took several times before I could calm down, and then my footwork and handwork was much better. Oh, I was never “good”, but I was much improved. :)
Good video, excellent points. One issue - forms and movement don't necessarily translate to their perceived movement, and most people have no understanding of what those movements are actually for. "Crane Beak" as you call it is an EXCELLENT example of this. 99.999999% (seemingly including you) of martial artists have no comprehension whatsoever of what that movement even represents, or where within the flow it sits.
I agree with your points, martial arts need real sparring experience. However there are a lot of traditional martial arts that do proper sparring. The ones that focus on no contact, points competition etc need a reality check and bring other traditional martial arts down.
LONG comment ahead: I think that to answer this question some other question must be answered First, if you want wan martial art to be nonviolent you will need to focus the art in defense but: Can you be always defended with no offense? This is essentially the min point of the video. Against persistent enemies, that will no desist in their attacks nor change their mind, a nonviolent approach will fail. Have you tried to play a shooter without killing one enemy?. So the answer is: No, not allways. If there is no way to ALWAYS possible to achieve defense in a nonviolent way, how much defensive can a defense art are became? This is not an easy question expessed in tis terms. But one way to partially answer it is finding an art focused in the best defense . So, Wich is the best defese?: …. …. …. No attack: because you will not need to use resources for defend in nor repair damages form the attack. However it can be achieved in different ways and each one of this was has its limitations. To see this we must remember the basic elements needed to obtain any attack: the attacker, the attacked one, a reason for the attack, the attack and the medium for the attack. To completely eliminate any attack and the achieve the best defenses you need to eliminate at least one of this factors. So there you have some of the methods to achieve the best defense: - There is no reason for attack: this is by far the best defense at long term because it allow to transform the “attacker” into a friend making both stronger. There is where diplomacy is usually best “art”. However in presence of INTENSE competition and limited resources, diplomacy may fail -There is no attacked: if you are not there, you cannot be attacked. Here is where hiding and running are usually the best choice. However if the attacker if fast enough and persistent and sensitive you cannot run no hide (jua,jua jua..!) -There is no medium to attack: if the attack cannot reach you, you are typically defended. Here is where shields and blocks are used. The man problem this this defense is the conservation of momentum: with portable shields and blocks the momentum of the attack will be traneared to the attacked. -there is no attacker: if you destroy de attacker all problem seems to be solved. Here is there where “good offense” is useful. But for a good attack to be the best defense, the attack must be devastating: it must destroy any will to counter attack form the attacker, their families their friend and allies. Other way you will receive another attack, possibly stronger than yours. - There is no attack: even if the attacker move towards the attacked one with motives, an can reach him , if the movement is not an attack there is no problem. Here lies the realm of immobilizations and the basis of Aiki. The main advantage of this is that you can gain time to get any of the other approaches. The problem with this approach is that you need to structure not only your movement but the movement of the attacker, which is very complicated unless you have one or few simple but generalist criteria to optimize the movement of the attacker -attached compound (the “do” of the art). Except for the aiki it is essay to find example in nature and history of and our EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS. In preventive strategies diplomacy, aiki, immobilization shields and blocks can strongly reduce the necessity to use offensive strategies but should include a few effective attacks and strategies to become a complete defensive system. Other aspect tis that violence does not need to be destructive nor destruction need to be violent.
Before my first full range sparring seminar, I thought of using all sort of advance Taekwondo technique like spinning back hook etc. After I was threw onto the ground for the first time. I just wanted to hold on to my dear life and survive
It always fits these peoples narrative to assume traditional martial artists don't fight/spar. they thrive on feeding the fears and egos of insecure martial artists to earn a living.
It sounds like the kempo guy did not understand the purpose of the chambered hand. Kata moves sometimes have to be destylelized to made useful. The chambered hand is meant to pull your opponent into your blow kinda like people pull someone into their knee or elbow.
I have been practicing martial arts for over 45 years. Started my martial arts training in Okinawa where I was born and grew up. I also served in USMC. Every Marine base I went, I joined local base martial arts club. I have never heard of martial arts not doing any sparing. I don't understand this video. What martial arts does not ever do sparing and realistic fight training during their course of martial arts career?
Oh God yes. Haha, I remember the very first time I sparred, hahaha, WOW. I went in, with about 6 months of Shaolin Kung Fu experience, and just did basic bad boxing/kickboxing. My Sifu would have us spar about twice a week after 6 months. Luckily, the instructor I had at the time, was good, and pulled me to the side, joked with me, and made me realize I had to try the techniques we had learned. I had to find out what worked for me and what didn't, he was rare in that he wanted us to experiment and see what we were good at. About 60% of what we had learned I could never make work, but there was that 40% that really helped. I remember we would also grapple/roll at least once or twice a week as well which kind of helped when I started training BJJ, but of course, I got demolished (my very first time grappling was a complete and utter disaster). I did feel I had a head start though, and that was good. In regards to the sparring, I think what really helped me is my Sifu wanted us to at least try to make our Kung Fu work. The first few sessions were really rough, but it did get better, and even when I spar today, I still use some of my old Kung Fu. I think that if the traditional martial arts school one trains at refuses to spar, or worse doesn't try to use the techniques they are taught, they won't ever really improve. It will be just as you described it, and what I initially experienced. I remember I would try to experiment with these funky punches, and then I realized I couldn't get the timing down, or they were horse shit. Like a "crescent kick" I can't land that with any power, so I eliminated it from any sparring. Like I said though, I was able to after a few weeks start using my Kung Fu, and that was what made up my mind that most of these TMA folks aren't actually sparring or using their techniques. You aren't learning something that is useless, but you as Stephen said, *have to pressure test it* and don't give up.
Also, unless you're saying that MMA fighters walk around with their gloves on, then a ground and pound is not a guarantee of victory since you cannot keep up shots to the head bare-handed without breaking your hand..
That seems to be *the* one thing everyone can agree on: you can't learn how to fight if you never actually fight. Full stop. One question, Sifu: do you think that every single move/stance in Kung Fu taolu has a purpose in real-life fighting or is some of it just for show/aesthetics? It's a question that I haven't been able to find an answer to yet.
Thanks again Stephan. A full on sparring session a la boxing is probably out of bounds for most martial arts fans who are older and not invested in becoming fighters. Concussion is permanent damage as I understand it. But people do need self defence that works. Pressure testing is essential but how it is implemented requires some planning. There are body armour solutions and I guess some light contact work. But full sparring using striking systems is dangerous for those of use older and with mortgages. I have taken boxing lessons and do some pad work but no sparring due to my age. I decided BJJ was best option to experience a ‘fight’ without damage with its built in dials to manage intensity. Judo less recommended. I took lessons at a BJJ school that stressed starting from you feet. Great I thought until I banged my head on a break fall. I quit that school. I learnt later that Judoka learn for many months their breakfalls not the cursory attention some BJJ schools give. If you are in your 20’s fine I suppose. But Judo is quite unforgiving over time, especially their focus on competition these days
Try "milling". Wear the headgear and a gum shield for safety but no headshots are allowed. No shots below the belt.Wear boxing gloves. Limit bouts to 30 seconds. It's not about technique. It's about overcoming fear and learning to overpower someone who is strongly resisting. Keep an eye on participants because even 30 seconds takes way more out of people than they expect.Punches to the head, kicks etc can be phased in for those that want it and bouts can be gradually extended too. You can have one participant loose the gloves and try to get in through the punches for a takedown etc. Students who get through their initial fear tend to love it because the format largely neutralises skill and gives them a chance beat on their seniors a little.
not in the traditional tkd school I trained in...we sparred a lot and fought full contact and we went to competitions and nationals , we could spar well
No idea. As far as I know, most schools in the US start standing at least half of the time. In my country bjj is almost always rolling from the knees only.
I've been in fights after training in traditional martial arts and did not lose my composure. Maybe these guys dont practice as much as they say or they are just really slow learners. Also, you cant make a wimp into a fighter. It takes forever to make significant improvements and some people will not make it to the next level. True story.
Thats right, like Mike Tyson said everybody has a plan until they got smacked in the head. Bruce Lee said, "Your worst enemy is the element of surprise. To defeat that enemy don't be surprised." I said, "Your greatest fear in life is not the fear. It’s the surprise." Basically the same thing I just worded it different. Thugs and criminals can offset skill with surprise and fear. Don’t fall for it.
They'd been "training for years" and had never sparred with contact? I call bullshite. Oh, but you have the magic answer available to them if they are willing to pay you, right....?
What I find painful is that what are considered to be todays supposedly "traditional" martial artists don't spar much. A long time back, those training in traditional forms who were not yet allowed to spar by their teachers were considered unready pupils, not yet disciples or martial artists. Even then, they tended to get into fights now and then with those wishing to test their skill.
I remember when I trained in traditional karate and sparred. Then did JKD and it helped me realize how I can make what works of Rome work in actual situations. Then I did some katas that worked in my real fights. I guess as you train and learn the more you realize how much you missed. I remember when someone tried BJJ on me and I just destroyed him. I learned some BJJ and I knew how to used submissions and how to counter most basic ones. Now idk how skilled he was exactly but he tried so hard. It would take someone on the level of black belts or more experienced to take me down. I mean if I land a good hit on the BJJ guy he is going down.
I agree i do taekwondo and i thought i was really good but i couldn't remember any of my combos my first time sparring i could just dodge and block and evade
While most points are true, I am a bit bothered by the term "traditional" being used interchangeably as bullshit these days. The fact is, there are many bullshido schools around, and many of them masquerade as traditional schools (but not limited to) with their invented 'traditions'. However, there are also legit traditional martial arts that had their roots in the combative training of militia or local security force. The problem is though, even within these styles, the schools tend to evolve (or devolve) into a sport, a fitness class, or a performance art. The ones that actually stick to their combative traditions do take some effort to find, and usually don't survive well, because when most parents send their kids to a martial art class, they are thinking sport / fitness / performance art, instead of a combative skill. So many it's an inevitability for their economical survival in a peaceful society. Also more importantly, this is not only happening to traditional schools, but across the board in varying degrees. You can actually see several trendy styles starting to leave their self defense aspect behind to focus on just the sport., and bullshido schools starting to pop up in their names. This is why I don't think it's helpful to dismiss all the traditional arts as bullshit. It might be more beneficial to just look at each school objectively, and figure out how if they do offer practical combative training, or if they are more of a sport / fitness /performance art place, or even just pure bullshido school.
The best striking techniques are the ones you see in any basic kung fu form for beginners. Ripping fists to vitals along the center line, mostly. I am a silat and escrima guy and I don't do none of that hardly at all any more. I learned tai chi, bagua and xingyi a decade ago. I want to learn more about grapppling and locking and detaining people efficiently so I don't have to hurt them! I mainly practice slow tai chi these days. I invented modified JKD boxing which is the closest thing I do to boxing. Love. Mike.
Of course. What happens the first time a boxer who just spent a year shadowboxing and hitting bags jumps in the ring with experienced boxers? He gets his ass kicked. That didn't happen to Mike Tyson though. Why not? Genetics? No. His pass time was jacking people and being jacked on the streets. To be a good fighter you have to fight.
Nice video Stephan. I laugh whenever I see a technique that involves catching the wrist & and doing some kind of wrist lock as a guy is punching you. Good luck with that. I guarantee you’ll eat 5-6 punches before you can catch my hand as I’m punching you. Trying to catch a punch at full speed is pretty much impossible.
One of the main reasons I'm discontinuing my traditional "Martial Arts" and starting with Muay Thai. Sick of doing katas and practicing blocks and punches that just don't work
sparring is somewhat good, the problem is injuries. I've had broken fingers, twisted knee, cracked ribs and two broken toes sparring. Not to mention soft tissue injuries. I don't think wearing all that protective gear, which I never had except cup and headgear in boxing, is a good idea either. Maybe a combination of mostly drills and some sparring.
