What If Angron Had Never Received The Butcher’s Nails? - 40K Theories 

That's the internet for you. People are literally too stupid to understand linear time. Thanks for the remaster.

@@1IGG they live in the warp.

Is the original still up

Very Nice!

Rem you're a master craftsman of lore-theory. We don't deserve you💛

He and Vulkan would engage in competitive "Hug-off" contests.

@@40KTheories I must see this

More like the emperor's greatest failure

Or to bleed profusely on

@@40KTheories I would also have another awesome uncle.

I doubt any one will give him a merciful death or any sense of love. Sad but the imperium aren't big on empathy for heretics

@@k9vendettathewolfofmordor529 True. Mostly, I'm hoping that Guilliman will put him out of his misery and finally grant him some sort of peace.

@@darkscholar625 tbh I hope angron revolts against khorne seeing him as just another slavemaster. Kinda like how i hope mortarion gets to be able to reap vengeance on typhus for causing his legion to become what they are.

Should've been aborted

@@k9vendettathewolfofmordor529 Well, who can blame them? This stuff heretics are capable of, given enough time, is f***ked up.

Yeah, they just _yeeted_ the High Riders from their homes. (In all seriousness it's hard to enunciate "The Eaters" in a sentence xD )

@@40KTheories Ahhh, good old fashioned defenestration. I enjoy that they have accepted best execution method.

No that's the Men of Iron

Salamanders: Fry Em Up! Nightlords: SLICE THEM UP!!!! World Eaters: LOOKS LIKE YEET IS BACK ON THE MENU BOYS!

I’m imagining this being canon if all the Primarchs were massive memelords

Good spot! (Like a say at the end of the video, there's probably a lot of other potential changes that I missed)

@@40KTheories got that one from wolflord rho during his Angron week!

@Lonnie Dunn Fulgrim really had the Children fight to the death before going traitor? Even before he got the demon blade? That sounds crazy. I thought the Emperor’s Children were better than that. I know by the end they were going crazy striving for perfection but that’s an interestingly barbaric, for lack of a better word, practice.

I thought that was Perturabo

Yes and could use his innate charisma and other factors that his brothers enjoy

His rebellion would have been tactical AND brutal. Never forget about the psychology effect of pure violence. Seeing a "friend" being killed with one clean shot, you will say something in the lines of: "oh fuck!" but you will still fight. Seeing that guy been butchered, just for the sake of it, you will run off.

@@guy_autordie That's what I meant when I said, "instead of _just_ being brutal."

@@guy_autordie I think he represented Emperors protective, fatherly side more than compassion alone. He would brutalise anything he decided to protect and care for.

WAYYYY off plot twist; Necian Chao cult FINALLY managed to summon a Greater Undivided Demon and has it kidnap Angron to force the nail unto him. This sparks a sudden calm but furious Emperor to go all out on the cult in order to rescue Angron protect him by allowing him to be his personal guard; the Castodes before the Castodes! Oh, and the Greater Demon is forever crippled by the Emperor that no Chaos cult would dare attack a Primarch's homeworld without the full support of their patron Chaos Gods.

Chillron: and you fill everything with the blood of criminals

Angron, but instead be super angry, he always sits on a giant floating beanbag that takes him anywhere and gives a chips version of rationbars to his genesons

@@donkface8509 ration chips

@@alexanderkazantzis8019 In Cool Ranch Corpsedust.

Was it on Friday, if so then it’s an offering. If not then it’s heresy

Oooh now _that_ is an interesting question...

What would it do to the space wolf wulfren And the angry marines ?

Would it work with sly marbo or is that just too much rage

If memory serves, when Angron uses his empathic powers they say that he protects them from their nightmares Edit. quote from page 145 of "Slave of Nuceria": "... Angron places a hand on Jochuras shoulder...he closes his eyes and feels the boy's pain as through his own: heat, knifing blades, screams and the splash of hot blood in his eyes.Angron winces for a moment, and the boy goes still, his cries silenced as they are replaced by deep, dreamless sleep" So it might work on the blood angel, but it would also give it to Angron

40K Theories How about we take it one further, what if Angron used this empathic ability he possessed on, say, Konrad Curze? Would he alleviate the Night Lord's visions? Banish the Night Haunter personality from Curze's mind? What if he used this empathy on his other brothers and helped them reach compromise and companionship with each other? Could he have used this ability to broker peace deals with Xeno species like the Eldar and later the Tau? There's a lot of potential that an Angron without the Butcher's Nails could have made the grim darkness of the far future a lot less grim and/or dark.

Good spot! (Like a say at the end of the video, there's probably a lot of other potential changes that I missed)

Also, no Tyranids in the 41st millennium

@@1stcaptainraldoron538 Well, we assume that the Tyranids are there because of the golden throne´s beacon, in which case yeah, no Tyranids. But we don´t know if that's 100 % true.

@@MegaHuntress No, it was the Pharos device which became a massive beacon for the Tyranids, which we know is the reason that alerted them when Dantioch overloaded the beacon to stop Night Haunters from getting it

@@thathappyaussie5209 well, I missed that part of the lore then. I was always under the assumption it was the Astronomican.

He showed compassion. Not Grimdark and too much positivity. We don't do that here. (Sigh)

He would have been "The best Friend of Vulkan" for both have empathy to human.

@@edmundthespiffing2920 Can't be grimdark if there is no one to sympathize with or cheer for before they receive a brutal fate - like Sanguinius or Vulkan.

Would have been up there with Horus and Leman in the noble barbarian thing going on.

ill be honest, considering that with the butchers nails, which are described by teh emperor as, and i quote "The Twelfth and its Legion call them the “Butcher’s Nails”.’ The Emperor kept staring at the screens. ‘You are looking at modifications to my original template of the Twelfth. More precisely, you are looking at modifications of primitive genius. Before these examinations, I had believed the enhancements performed upon the Twelfth on Nuceria were the source of its emotional instability. My hypothesis was that they stirred the Twelfth to a sense of perpetual but ultimately artificial rage. Yet the opposite is true. With the alterations made to the limbic lobe and insular cortex, the surgeons have impaired the Twelfth’s ability to regulate any emotion at all. Furthermore, they have rethreaded its capacity to take pleasure in anything but the sensation of anger. They are the only chemicals and electrical signals that flow freely through, and from, its brain. All else is either dulled to nothingness or rewired to inspire a supreme degree of agony. It is a testament to the durability of my primarch project that the Twelfth has managed to survive this long.’ ‘His own emotions cause him pain?’ ‘No, Arkhan. Everything. Everything causes it pain. Thinking. Feeling. Breathing. The only respite it has is in the rewired neurological pleasure it receives from the chemicals of anger and aggression.’ ‘That’s vile,’ said the technoarchaeologist. ‘Perversion of cognition, rather than purification.’ The Emperor showed nothing but passionless interest. ‘Such rewriting of physiology certainly hinders the Twelfth’s higher brain function. The device is cunningly wrought, for something so crude.’ ‘Can you remove it?’ ‘Of course,’ the Emperor answered, still looking at the screens. Arkhan did his best to hide his surprise. ‘Then, Divine One, why would you leave it there?’ ‘This is why.’ The Emperor rested both hands on Angron’s head, one with the fingertips pressed to the primarch’s temple and cheek, the other pressed to the crown of his shaven head where the cable-tendrils joined the flesh and bone. The images on several screens immediately resolved to a clearer imprint of a brutishly dense skull miserable with crude cybernetics and the bone-scarring of powerful surgical laser cuts. ‘Do you see?’ the Emperor asked. Arkhan saw. The tendrils were sunk deep, rooted in the meat of the brain, threaded to the nervous system, and down in roughly serpentine coils around the spinal column. Every movement must have been agony for the primarch, feeding back into the base emotions of anger and spite. Worse, the brain’s limbic lobe and insular cortex were more than just savaged by the pain engine’s insertion; they had been surgically attacked and removed even before implantation. The device hammered into his skull hadn’t ruined those sections of the brain - it had replaced them. Ugly black cybernetics showed on the internal scans, in place of entire sections of the primarch’s brain tissue. ‘They are the only thing keeping him alive,’ Arkhan said." Angron was still able to make decisions, distinguish friend from foe and in some cases create actual plans. this, mind you, while literarly only wanting to die and being in constant extreme agony. before the butcher´s nails, his willpower woulda made the other primarchs seem like pansies

naw, it'd be Kindron

Hapron

Regiron. Pokemon trainer

Joyron

Someone should have just given him a snickers.

Those two were probably designed to keep up the morale of the rest of their brothers.

​@@spartanalex9006That sounds very believable. Combine Vulkan's nearly supernatural kindness and happiness alongside Loyalist Angron's Care and mercy, and we could essentially cure Konrad.

This would (probably) lead to Angron being celebrated as a hero alongside his legion and have also joined in on the fun in the Abyssal Crusade!

​@@chriswu772 Happy Angranala

They would have been best Bros for real.

dude I thought Kindron so dont feel bad lol

@@updfdrakkell143 Goodron?

HappyBunnyRon

...too grimdark, my bad.

Niceron?

im glad i wasnt the only one that heard that too.

I’d play that army.

I Was dying

Same here. I had a good chuckle at that.

I'd play world yeeters

Imagining that is funny

@@shakirjoestar46 Rogal? Is that you?

@@rubenhunt130 *fortifies my comment*

@@shakirjoestar46 *Nods approvingly*

Agreed, it wasn't the Nails that drove Angron to hate the Corpse God, it was the selfish actions of the so called master of mankind that guaranteed Angron's hatred. Had the emp aided the slave rebellion then perhaps Angron would have accepted his legion and his gene sire. But in the end, the Corpse God got what his actions deserved, an eternal enemy.

@@fullmetalhaggis this is why you let your kids breathe people let them do their little hobbys or else they'll hate you forever

I think this is one huge thing that would have been easy for the Emperor to do that he just didn’t and I think it would have cemented Angron to being loyalist if at least made it a little harder for him to turn. I still think he would have eventually since the nails screwed him up so much, but who knows.

@@jo_kenAngron would’ve absolutely become a loyalist to the emperor if he had helped in the rebellion. To save his beloved brothers and sisters from certain death, kill the high riders who’d oppressed him and bring freedom to his home world? It would’ve been everything Angron could’ve dreamed of, made possible only by the Emperor’s help.

And he went on for years, desperately trying to live and thrive even after he lost everything he knew and loved.

I would love it if we see that this story was actually false, that the emperor did in fact help Angron but the Nobels of the world pulled out a nasty trick, inside these nails which all the slaves had, was a kill switch and that it turns out they allowed this war because to them it was funny. Now that the emperor spoiled their fun, they hit the switch and all the slaves die except Angron, who while nearly killed, is saved by the fact his nails don’t work to well and the emperor saving him. However he also suffers from memory loss becouse of it, so all he can remember is him telling the emperor to fuck off, him being teleported (this is after the big kill switch and he’s actually in the arms of a worried Emperor whose actually showing empathy and worried for his son) and then him waking up abord the ship and all his Freinds dead. This would explain this weird detail and make the story all the more tragic. Could also be that Angron refuses to listen to his father’s pleads and side of the story. Is also why the emperor left Angron alone, he just felt shit about his son like it was a failure for the emperor.

@@historytank5673this is an interesting take. This whole story in the way it’s told leans heavily into the emperor being an absolute fucking terrible father.

Definitely one major mistake, alongside not shutting down all that cult shit Lorgar was doing BEFORE giving him a legion, not letting Mortarion get his little revolution, not easing Konrad Curze's paranoia and mania, merging the debate of psykers in the Astartes with Magnus' punishment for blatant use of Warp Sorcery (Seriously, Nikea just felt like a huge mess), not trying to help Perturabo get over himself, or getting Fulgrim to stop worshipping him like Lorgar. Seriously, was he just on a time crunch with hoovering up the Traitor Primarchs or something? Or what, was he so defeatist that he ultimately gave up on these guys the moment he saw their potential futures? Like, almost every problem I just listed could have easily been avoided, but NOOO!!! Because apparently, the Eldar were gonna beat him to a 2 for 1 Agri-World deal.

The other big mistakes were not telling the Primarchs about Chaos. And burning Lorgar's equivalent of Jerusalem.

Assuming he still retains the strength and brutality he had in canon, focused through a lense of discipline, I'd argue he'd easily pass as the deadliest Primarch

His would still be fury. This would be a betteyal that would bring his mind back to when the high riders demanded he fight what amounted to his adopted father,complete with threat of worse than death for non compliance. It would,however, be a cold silent fury. The sort of thing that khorn would honestly balk at. This was not want of slaughter or blood, but disgust and rage at betteyal and willful breaking of familial bonds and oaths.

@@singletona082 that's sounds terrifying

@@singletona082 beautiful

A genuinely empathetic loyalist primarch might have actually been able to prevent the heresy from being as bad as it was in the first place, or possibly happen at all. Chill Angron would be able to relate to Mortarion (they were both blueballed in their final hours by Big E), be able to give Curze the emotional support that he badly needed, and give Perturabo the appreciation that he needed so he didn't fall in with Horus. Lorgar (and by extension Horus), Fulgrim, Alpharius Omegon, and Magnus (who was well and thoroughly dicked by Tzeentch into turning traitor) would still probably end up going renegade, but with nearly half of the Traitor Legions the Heresy would not have ended so poorly.

The Angronor?

@@40KTheories now I need to make a chaos champion or lord that can fly welding an axe and a pistol.

He shows up when the War Hounds need him most, and on Angronala Eve he comes into your hab-block and leaves chain axes in front of your radiator.

@@40KTheories merry angronala. ALL I SEE IS RED. and green. and white.

@@40KTheories the angrynor?

Reminds me of a painting called "The War Hound and the World's Pain."

Yes, but he would have needed to work with a different legion in order to pull off the Ruinstorm.

Thats the real question

This.

They did it when he was a child I believe

All the drugs. All the drugs in the world.

Im not 100% but i think he was attacked by eldar as a child left in a weakened state and then subdued by the ruling nobles.

Well with him being sane and empathetic n what not he might have been the one who was able to plead with the emperor against his totalitarian ways. And possibly stay with the emperor on the belief that he could make the imperium better

Angron: Patron Saint of Loyalist Renegades. I kinda like the sound of that. A bit like the Black Legion, except made up entirely of Astartes chapters that were abandoned by the Imperium but haven’t abandoned the cause of humanity in turn.

​@UGNAvalon I always liked the idea of a Traitor Primarch being a Renegade: simply hating how the Emperor does things while wanting to protect humanity from hostile Xenos and Chaos alike. Hell, I created an idealized P11 our of it.

To be honest - then we'd be talking about Angron's Heresy. He'd be able to goud Horus to lead it to free humanity from Tyranny of emperor, possibly using Alpharius Omegon as proxies.

Logar: "But I'M the main cleric of the Primarchs!" *proceeds to whine* Angron: "Yeah, but I’m better… bitch."

Most likely the War Hounds legion would have continued as they were before meeting Angron, and more-likely-than-not stay loyalist, though they might have a harder time replenishing casualties due to limited geneseed reserves from no primarch. Maybe the Emperor would let them have some of his original geneseed tech and notes like he did to the Raven Guard for their Raptors if the legion got REALLY crapped.

@@fadelsukoco3092 The emperor would first utterly wipe out the high riders They would be punished for killing angron

Brogron

This.

He'd lead one - and he'd be having Jagathai Khan at his side, possibly Magnus as well, not to mention othes.

It is precisely because Magnus had choices that could have changed the outcome that makes his fall tragic. There was a golden future that could have been reached had he heeded the warnings he was given. The tragedy is that he was blinded by his own character flaws and thus made the wrong choices at those critical moments. The tragedy is that it would have been so easy for Magnus not to have fallen. Angron never had a choice. There was no happy ending for Angron no matter what he did. Angron was a victim. Angron's fate was sad, but there is no tragedy without there having been something he could have done differently.

@@YouthRightsRadical i am not gonna feel sad for a guy who mad bad choices. I am gonna feel bad for someone constantly pushed in the wrong direction his entire life by others. So i will weep for Angron. I won't for Magnus.

@@And-ur6ol Like I said, Angron's fate was sad. Magnus' was tragic. Tragic doesn't mean you weep for them. Macbeth is one of the classic tragedies, and there's a reason we cheer when his "no man of woman born" prophetic protection fails him at the end of the play.

Because the emperor was an arrogant dumb dumb. It's the same reason he still let Lorgar and Konrad have their own legions, he though he could control them.

@@emjaaaay Actually.... more like, Emperor took calculated risk. There's hint of certain expediency in Great Crusade and Emperor and Malcador purposefully took risk with using these damaged primarchs, hoping they'll be able to contain them.

Worst book club ever, Lorgar always suggests heretical writings and Guilliman always suggests boring political books.

@@danielbateman6518 And Angron?

@@jimmyjones5717 well if he's a caring guy without the butchers nails, he wants to read whatever you want to read.

@@jimmyjones5717 Fantasy?

@@danielbateman6518 Case in point; please list out what kind of books each of the primarchs would be into if you can.

Just 199.9%

Yes.

Better change it from Heresy to Rebellion or Revolt.

The "Zen Berserker" type trope, admittedly I think those work great for Angron. A loyalist, but still a complete monster to deal with in battle.

Hehe, that was a fun project.

Lotara the mammy of the world eaters

I mean i think he'd be one of the most steadfast and loyal servants Big E created, but the anger would still be there. Hell my dog is a loving animal but goddamn any creature that ventures into our yard. The ferociousness would still be there, just paired with loyalty and love.

Shhhh plot stuff. Just ignore it. We're talking about superhumans created by a literal god on earth.

all berzerkers are khornates not all khornates are berzerkers