What If Austria United Germany In 1648? 

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Everyone is asking in Europe “Do you want Spain to be ruled by the Austrians or the French?” But nobody is asking… “What do you want Spain?”

It seems to me the most realistic scenario would be one where an extremely clever and lucky Hapsburg emperor played the Pope off of the Protestants such that a the Catholic and Protestant churches reach a grumpy toleration of each other and a Holy Roman Emperor becomes the strongest of the three blocks, bridging the religious divide, and can slowly consolidate power over a few generations starting from that foundation.

Very nice video as always! The Thirty Years War is a really underrated historical war, especially stateside, so it's always nice to see an AH covering it. Of course, it's also always nice to see an AH that's past the 200 year mark that isn't Roman-related.

Great job on the video. I have A question for you; What if Franz Josef married Queen Victoria ?

Doubtful that if this scenario were to occur that the Habsburg Emperors would wish to rule directly these vast territories confiscated from the protestants. More than likely these lands would be transferred from their protestant lords to either loyal catholic nobles, or catholic branches of these same families. And even without direct control over the lands, winning the war would have cemented the power of the Habsburgs even further, and still could have led to further centralization of the Empire.

Alternatively, the Emperor could decide to go full Roman and try and put the Church back under imperial authority by embracing the Reformation himself.

germany uniting in 1648 would make sweden to weak to invade plc in 1655, and they're invasion was the thing that made most of polish nobility bancrupt (which gave all of the power to few magnates, and led to start of yousing liberum veto), destroyed countries economy and made it loose it's world power status. without sweden invaiding poland could even led to poland menaging to defend the agriments of Hadacz union against russia (turning plc into the union of three states. Poland, Lithuania and Ruthea, ending the cossac rebelion)

If the emperor would of been successfully at consolidating the HRE those borders would be the most beautiful thing ever

So basically this alternate timeline talks about an OP Germany but created by Austria rather than Prussia in the 17 century

This is a really interesting scenario! I haven't actually thought about something like this before and it's interesting to see someone cover such a timeline. Great job as always Mr. Potential and keep up the good work!

This was fun!! My only criticism is I feel like post the united post-30 years war HRE/Germany should have its borders in one solid color; with just the orange outline and not over all of the Empire's territory (just Germany proper), it can be a little bit harder for the viewer to understand what is going on. Great scenario and video!

A Germany led by Austria is the most based Germany.

Another very interesting scenario. Well done, I love your videos because you don't stick to the clichéd timelines we have seen a thousand times, very refreshing

The moment when Austria passes the last Centralization Reform:

Try this: What if the Habsburg never ruled Spain? There are 2 ways: Juan the heir of the Catholic monarchs doesn't die young and gets to continue the Trastamara dynasty, or second, Manuel of Portugal, grandson of the Catholic Kings inherits Spain and Portugal. No useless war in the Netherlands, no French fear of being surrounded, more protection of Italian conquered lands, same commercial policies of the Trastamaras that lead to economic boom, and viceroyal armies to be used in Europe if necessary.

12:04 Or Poland couldve just reformed seeing the danger from a great unified germany the nobility could be more willing to strenghten the kings power, the sytem itself wasnt the only reason Poland fell and predicting Poland in this scenario to me seems like the hardest part since similiar to how each monarch ruled diffrently the Polish nobility would be even more undecided and dependant on random factors This makes even less sense seeing how Poland lithuania is able to expand territorially, each of these expansions maybe used by kings for increasing theyr power in the country and dunno if the powerful Catholic austria would be as willing to divide Poland with the orthodox and protestants as protestant prussia and orthodox russia

Deductions made from Poland feel kinda forced. In such circumstances these seem unrealistic scraps. Prussia mainly desired Pomerania corridor, but according to Russia's expansion they also took Greater Poland and Warsaw. Unified Germany most propably would put a king to a polish throne and dominate the whole country..

When I first thought about the scenario around Poland, I was thinking "no way Poland gets divided in this scenario, without Prussia there really wouldn't be any power pushing for its division." But as I thought more, I realized there was another time when Poland was almost divided but managed to get away which could turn out very different: The Deluge. In OTL, Poland was almost divided between Russia, Sweden, and Cossack break aways that would have left a rump Poland-Lithuania, just barely managing to turn the tide of the war. In this alternate TL, the Cossacks, Russia, and Sweden could still go to war with Poland simultaneously, and while I think the HRE would start off supporting the Poles, they could quickly change their minds if they see the tide is turning against them and lead to a Polish Partition. Like the real Polish Partitions, it probably doesn't destroy Poland instantly, but over the course of the next couple decades they'd be forced to give up more and more.

I live in lower saxony in germany and you forgot that the austrians would probably even with violence convert us to Catholicism. That would be a living Nightmare!

And now let's get 200 years forward and get the true and wholesome revolution. Otherwise, a very good scenario of an age not often talked about.

Seeing a huge beatifull Poland makes this video so much better

My prediction is that the middle option taken. Neither the French nor the German Habsburgs come out of this conflict as the unquestioned dominators of Europe. I foresee a similar deal to what happened OTL, with the Bourbons taking the Spanish throne, but being removed from the French succession and the Habsburgs gaining control over formerly Spanish lands in the Western HRE.

that seems like some crazy death tolls though. But I like the idea of a pragmatic hansburg subduing the north

Well actually without August of Saxony bribing the MPs to vote for him Jakub Sobieski would have been chosen king who would probably pursue his fathers policy of reforming the system.

I think a more reasonable scenario is HRE giving France Lorraine and Calais while giving the Netherland the low countries with the promise of either supporting stay out of the war. This way the HRE only have to fight the north german princes and the Scandinavians.

0:10 You forgot morroco Still the same berber nations from Mauritania Roman province To berber kingdoms in medieval age To now

What if the Turks instead of Migrating south into India, Persia, and Anatolia, decided to migrate farther into the north european plain, setting up huge flatland gunpowder/horse empires there

I think that the Austrians would dominate Europe for a time, but would lag behind during the industrial revolution. If they can unify the empire culturally then it may continue to exist as is, otherwise, splinter states may form during its weakness. It would eventually reform and would most likely industrialize after England but before Russia.

11:48 Actually the first veto was used in 1652. And it happened very randomly. Maybe due to the butterfly effect it never becomes a thing in this timeline.

This makes me think of a scenario where Europe might unify in the early twentieth century through an alternate "Great War": After 1871, France would slowly start to think their enemy Germany as an enemy of the liberal democratic countries in Europe, France+NL+Belgium+Lux will form a basic confederation (which is the unrealistic part). They then make alliances with Britain and Russia to counter the central powers, and spreading propaganda about the lack of liberal democracy of their opponents. Thus making the eventual war not to be about nationalist desire to humiliate the enemy, but about the conflict between liberalism and conservatism. Will the liberal entente win (maybe with help from italy) or will they fail (russia might not want to support the spread of liberal democracy).

Great video dude continue to nice work also here is a suggestion What if the umayyads took constantinople in 718

germany is the best 🇩🇪

I can see a different scenario for the east and north. Polish kings at this time were closely related to the Habsburgs and they were very catholic. Poland would ally Austria with the hope of getting the Swedish throne back. Union of Poland, Sweden and Lithuania would be too strong so I suspect that catholic Vasas would keep Sweden and some Habsburg would be elected the next king of PLC - maybe emperor himself, maybe his brother or cousin. After some time PLC would become part of the empire like Hungary or Bohemia

I think the long term direct control of all the confiscated land is unlikely and would have a good amount of it handed out to new nobles. In specific id guess that the Swiss, Dutch, and Catholic German territories would be divided up while North Germany proper would be kept under the Emperor. A more realistic alternative to this scenario is instead of all lands being seized but have the Prussian and a handful of larger minor lords land revoked and have that be all thats incorporated, thats more then enough land to better consolidate the Empire but not so much more so to entirely spook Europe. Maybe even slap on the Netherlands also but with the explicate caveat and intent to divide the land up among worth nobility essentially decentralizing authority there and putting it under a new coat of Catholic paint. But thats just my thoughts, what do other people think?

As you said, your scenario is most unlikely. More likely would have been an alternate timepline with the Emporer accepting Wallensteins proposal, that the war could not be won by any side and it would strengthen the Emporer to become a peace dealer in a religious nutral Empire. Ferdinand II. would have been in a comfortable position after defeating Denmark and Sweden and the hole Empire would have been spared the most catastrophic part of the 30 years war...

Could you do a “part 2” exploring whether the Habsburgs would participate in colonization of the world beyond Europe in this scenario?

Thank you for posting this! Can we have one on if the Dutch took their New York or South African colonies more seriously?

Everyone: No Spain: Yes

I loved the video and the quality was fantastic! Could you perhaps do a video about other things during era? Such as what if the Netherlands won the Anglo Dutch wars?

considering that France wasn't involved in the Thirty Years War, this would mean that Portugal would had no opportunity to become independent, which would cause Spain to eventually integrate the Portuguese in the Spanish Empire, as Portugal had slowly losing autonomy over time then in the Spanish Succession, it is very likely that Portugal would support the Habsburg as the Habsburg was still allowing state as Catalonia and Aragon to retain some autonomy, Portugal would likely be the same, and it's possible that some Portuguese bureaucrats would use this opportunity as another independence attempt

can you do a "what if Lenin let the social revolutionaries take power in the 1917 election" I think that would be very cool and seeing what will happen to the SU with democracy and if there could win against the Germans in 1941 sounds fun.

I can’t see the map very well but do the Dutch have Antwerp because Zeeuws Vlaanderen is connected to north Brabant. But this could be a visual error.

What if The Soviet Union wasn't invaded and stayed neutral in WW2?

A united Germany in 1618 would be more interesting. After 1648 Germany was depopulated and weak. How would they be the most powerfull with their meager 10 million inhabitatns?

I have been loving these what ifs that you have been making lately!

Now could you do a similar situation, but including the non-German (Italian lands, the Netherlands, Switzerland, etc) parts of the empire centralized? Perhaps the first Habsburg emperor doing so? Or perhaps when the HRE was at its territorial height? Or perhaps a centralization of the empire of Charles V? All sound like equally interesting censorious.

What if the Dutch Republic united northwestern Germany in 1648?

I feel like perhaps austria could have convinced Spain to offer some of the low countries to France as compensation for staying neutral. Because it would be crazy for France to stay neutral in the 30 years war without good motivation.

Why am I always dissatisfied with your explanations...? It's probably because you always overlook the crucial turning points in the various conflicts! How on earth do you come up with a peace treaty in an alternate timeline in 1648? How about that, for example... Through betrayal, the Emperor learns of the Swedes' plans and awaits the enemy when he lands in Western Pomerania, already on the coast. The Swedish army and its king are defeated upon landing and the king (as in real life) falls in battle. The Swedes end their attack attempt on Germany before it has really begun. The Bohemians are defeated. The Protestant estates are defeated. The Danes are defeated. What's left for France...? Nothing! Peace agreement at least in 1632 and end of the event. The Kaiser is stronger than ever before and a first German national state is created. Complete change in world history... And given the actual history of the world, things can hardly go any worse... And the harem pants down in Constantinople can put on some warm clothes...

I think the hasburg would win the spanish succesion war or they could prevent the war

If the Emperor hadn't withdrawn his support for Wallenstein causing him to be assassinated, things could've been very different!

Just finished watching this banger and was surprised to see the channel only having 3000 subs, this content is way too good

You should do what if the ottomans focused on Asia instead of Europe

Great vid, very educational. What if scenario though, what if Pedro V of Portugal survived to old age?

In your timeline Schleswig is still Danish despite the Emperor taking back German territory. On purpose? Why?

I once actually had an idea for a united Germany early but not this early my idea, was a person Union happening between Austria and Prussia following the reign Frederick the Great

Good afternoon

Honestly this might make the british-french union possible which would be fun, russia and kalmar union would be the wild cards but at least russia would be distracted by the ottoman empire. Napoleon might also heroically save France by valiant defense instead of attempting to conquer Europe.

I love this scenario. I want to see more Habsburger Scenarios, like what if Austria-Hungary reformes sucessfully?

I wish you did some more and expand to what if the Germans actually got more collonies in America than. As far as i know Germany didnt had Collonies Because of Internal Conflicts ^^ Its a great Video and a nice Theory

I love how the swiss borders never change

I really enjoyed the video! Very interesting scenario!

Impossible : The Habsburgs were Catholic, the German Princes were protestants.

1:59 "This could have NEVER happened in real life" - *Possible* History

This video really makes me wish EU4 didn't suck.

I need to learn more about the 30 years war now

This makes me wonder what if the opposite happened, like, what if the Protestants just crushed the Emperor and the Pope and somehow managed to convert Rome into Protestantism?

How don't you have much more subs this is amazing 😍

Can you do if Sweden won the great northern war.

This comment is algorithm fodder. Have a nice day.

While its interesting the most what if scenarios have a problem: they start at the point of interest. The whole scenario would be much more plausable if the protestants wouldnt get that much power in the first place. So you would have to start the scenario about 150 years earlier to set the stage for a much more powerful emperor.

Nice video, if you polished up the maps you’re using and threw some historical images in there it would make your videos even more fun to watch

What if everything went perfect for Greece?

I think Britain and France would put their rivalry aside in such a scenario, just as the Spanish and French did in our timeline when they thought the British were getting too powerful.

The Thirty Years' War had save of propaganda not much to do with religion. It was - like in your scenario - a fight between centralization under House Habsburg and the princes of the federal states striving for more autonomy. For many of them Protestantism was only the way to achieve this goal, and they were supported by Catholic France as well as by expansionist (and coincidentally Protestant) Sweden. Additional complications were the fights for independence by the Netherlands, Switzerland and the Italian republics, which all had started long before; the Bohemian reluctance to accept a Habsburg king; the confusion caused by "personal union" between realms within and without the Empire: House Oldenburg ruling the Kingdom of Denmark as well as (within the Empire, by younger sons) the Duchy of Schleswig; the Margrave and Prince-Elector of Brandenburg being since 1618 also the Duke of Prussia within Poland; the Spanish line of House Habsburg also ruling Burgundy (Franche Comté, together with the Old Swiss Confederacy, which was at times an internal enemy to Austrian Habsburg, occupying the ancestral seat of Habsburg), Luxembourg and the Netherlands (since 1581 de facto without the 7 northern provinces which declared their independence as the Republic of United Netherlands); the Austrian line of Habsburg holding the claim on the crowns of Hungary and Croatia; the Duke of Savoy (within the Empire) also being (within the Empire) Duke of Gent, Margrave of Saluzzo, Count of Aosta, Moriana, Asti and Nizza, Prince of Piemont as well as (outside of the Empire) Duke of Nemours in France, Titular King of Cyprus and Jerusalem. Frederick V of the Palatinate, leader of the Protestant Union, was the son-in-law of James VI of Scotland / James I of England and the grandson of William the Silent of Nassau-Orange, the first Stadtholder of the United Netherlands, and was therefore chosen by the insurgent Bohemian nobles as King of Bohemia instead of Frederick of Habsburg; he was of the Palatinate line of House Wittelsbach, the Dukes of Bavaria. And so on... The Empire had become actually a federation of states whose rulers had often their real power basis outside of the formal borders of the Empire. In 1618 it was already too late to change this, and the further decentralization of power in 1648 was only the natural consequence, and French expansionism added to this.

The Commonwealth supporting Habsburgs? Considering their own internal struggles in Ukraine and the fact that a considerable portion of the nobility was Protestant at that time, I seriously doubt they would get involved at all

This would be possible if the Invencible Armada succeded in making english catholic. Drake gets a cold and die 1587. Solved. English supports the Habsburg and germany is unified in 1648.

11:48 PLC slander! The PLC had problems with its governmental system, but the Liberum Veto wasn’t one of them. Vetoes could be overruled, and - before the latter half of the 17th century - they frequently were. The problem with Poland-Lithuania was its total lack of central authority. The Liberum Veto was just a symptom of the underlying issue; the complete dominance of the noble class over state affairs and their susceptibility to outside influence.

Not unifying isn't a "failure", it's a different approach to culture and politics something none Europeans and democratic people don't understand. That judgemental approach already proves a short-sighted perspective and lack of understanding for different cultures. If you'd know about actual German history, since it's origin, you'd see the true answer to why a German Bundesland today is still not the same, as a normal state.

how about: What if the protestant reformation is more successful in the HRE? As in, Westphalia, Baden, Württemberg, upper Bavaria, and perhaps even western Austria turn protestant?

I think eventually the French and the British put differences aside and work together to take down the HRE. Maybe the Poles, Ottomans, and Russians get involved in intervals

Wdve been too easy. Instead Austrian painter became German corporal, Fuhrer afterwards...to annex Austria.

A very interesting Article! But! The map of a huge Poland is wrong. The german kingdoms went far more to the east than shown on these map. And on the throne of Poland for very long time sat the King of Saxonia which belonged to the Holy Roman Imperium of German Nation. Other parts belonged to Austria and Russia. Then for a long time Poland as state did not exist at all

I think that Britain and the Habsburgs would work together since due to having such vast European holdings I don’t think they would compete with Britain for colonies like France did.

Highly doubt that the ottomans would lose so much land. For centuries they kept the crimean khanate because its too stubborn to be taken in fact it only got taken when the ottomans were the sickman of europe and russia was the emerging power at that time. In the 1600's the ottomans were still probably the deadliest force on the planet boasting a huge well trained and maintained army. The failure vianna meant it was prey to a european coalition and it lost many battles because its grand vizier was executed and recruits were of poor quality. In this time line the ottomans would still have the highest population and GDP of europe and the largest army. And expierienced soldiers. So i highly doubt that germany could do all that to the ottomans. Maybe after 1700 this would be more realistic but if ottomans remained on the defensive to begin with i dont see the allies coming that far.

Very interesting. What also would be interesting is: what if Charlemagne married Empress Theodora, essentially recreating the Roman Empire

truly one of the videoes of all time

What if pre colonial India had something like the Holy Roman Empire? Y'know, the marathas on steroids

britain, netherlands and probably some italian states would definetly go on the side of france to stop the habsbourgs. The netherlands anyway hate the HRE and britain whould also never let them dominate europe

Why Germany are not a Part of Austria, but forget the Bullshit. Austria and Germany goes never together!

The Dutch states general would never except this peace they would probably go on due to a weakened Spain and Protestant allies

Stop calling The Lithuannian-Polish Commonwealth Poland . Its also Lithuanna

You forgot swedish Russian would have different rulers since they were related to Queen Vic

UK was also prodistent heard of Henry viii church of England

Awesome scenario, have never seen this concept before!

What if all of Europe was decentralized like the hre until the 19th century?

What about napoleon? I think napoleon would rekt all of eroupe collapse the HRE

Britain will do what Britain has always done and play the continental powers against each other so that one side never rises to the top for too long.

Bavaria be like: WHY I CAN'T CHOOSE THE EMPREROR!?