If Boromir lived: Aragorn: Frodo´s fate is no longer in our hands. Boromir: But we suppose to..... Aragorn: Change of plans! Boromir: Ok,Ok! We go after hobits.
This is the 'what if' scenario with the happiest ending! ] Most 'What ifs' seem to end in the ring not being destroyed and the end of the world coming too soon! Everything had to happen exactly the way it did in the book for the ring to be destroyed, but then you have found a way to make things better for more people (not orcs etc!)
The first time I watched Fellowship with my daughters(both mid teens at the time) they cried when Boromir died. They both loved him and in explaining why, pointed out something I'd not noticed before. Boromir loved the hobbits most. It was him who taught them to swordfight, who playfought with them, who spoke for them on Caradhras when the journey surely would've killed them, and who begged for them to be given time to mourn Gandalf's passing, and when Aragorn found him dying, his first words were about the hobbits "They took the little ones"(an endearing term). Despite his faults, he loved the hobbits.
"I would have gone to end with you; my brother, my captain, my king" I think it would have been great had Boromir lived, he definitely would have made a huge difference in the events of the normal timeline. The only problem with it I think is the return of the actual king. Feel like Denethors love of his son would have challenged the claim of king for Aragorn :/ But it would have made my life to see the entire fellowship reunited at the end of all things 🥰
Honestly, I could see Aragorn praising Denethor and his forefathers for keeping Gondor safe in his family’s absence, bringing honor to Denethor’s line, and that he would need Denethor’s council to continue guiding Gondor towards a brighter future.
It can be really hard to fight on behalf of someone who does not want you to. With Boromir offering his support to Aragorn and his claim, what can Denethor, whose authority comes from a position that has a legal obligation to yield to the true king, truly do in that situation? In the books, he can cast doubt that Aragorn is who he says he is, but he can't do that if Boromir is standing right there and contradicting those claims. (I mean, he *could*, but then he'd be making his son and heir look like an incapable dumbass who's much too gullible to ever rule, so I don't think that would really be in his best interests either).
@@gayahithwen and legolas the prince of mirkwood and gimli being of durins line is also by birth a lord so there wouldd be 3 lords vouching for aragon being the true king
@@itzwilza7189 Most likely Eomer/Theoden would have also supported his claim and Rohan being a respected friend and ally of Gondor would have carried huge influence.
There would have been some political strife, because Denethor knew Aragorn of old, as Denethor saw past the guise of Thorongil and divined in truth who Thorongil really was. As the books say, Denethor was to Aragorn as one of closest kin. Meaning that Denethor truly guessed who Thorongil was, and was not that happy. Moreover, since the two of them were basically the same age, I think Denethor would have begrudged the seeming longevity of Aragorn as Denethor's blood was mixed with lesser men, while Aragorn's blood was pure
I would like to add something about this "What if" theory. Upon reaching old age and passing his dutied to his next sucessors, Boromir (and family) went to live with the Hobbits. :^)
Thank you for this. I love it and agree that Boromir represents what is most human in us all. I do have a question though? What about the Oathbreakers and the Corsairs? Would Aragorn have walked the Path of the Dead to get them? They were crucial to breaking the siege of Minas Tirith.
@@muttamerican4863 Um... in the books, Gandalf drove off the Witch King + 4 other ringwraiths at the same time from Weathertop. It isn't even a close comparison 1 to 1. They made the Witch King a lot more powerful in the movies, because they needed some believable big bad guys -- because Sauron doesn't DO anything and the Big Evil is a piece of jewelry.
@@animistchannel2983 Tolkien did state that Sauron had empowered the Witch King during the battle of the Pelennor Fields, so it wouldn't be nearly as much of an uneven fight as you make it out to be. Of course, Gandalf probably would have still won, but I doubt the Witch King wouldn't have challenged Gandalf if he didn't think he had at least some chance of winning the fight. After all, the reason he fell back from the duel was because the Rohirrim arrived and he needed to deal with that, not because he was afraid of Gandalf.
Oh boy, let’s see how this turned out. Gotta say, I love this one far more. Imagine if both Boromir lived and Thorin lived. That of course depends on if both theories would still run the same way, but if so, I think Sauron would regret playing the strategy he did.
I would also think that in counsel with his father and his brother Boromir would advise his father against taking the One ring and in private tell them that craving it almost doomed the Fellowship. I would not be suprised if despite his duty to Gondor Boromir would ride to aid Rohan for two reasons. First as an emissary of Gondor. I think that having a high ranking person aid Rohan would push Theoden to ride to Gondor faster. Second it would be to regain his honor. While standing in defense of Merry and Pippin I don't think it would be enough to put his feelings of guilt to rest.
Denethor: ”Boromir, I was initially displeased that you didn’t bring the weapon of the enemy to Gondor. But now that I’ve heard of it’s powers almost corrupted you and that you survived the ambush I’m just happy to see you alive and well.
I loved him in the books and loved him even more when played by Sean Bean. He was so relatable. He had flaws, but still he was a good person, defending Gondor, caring for his brother, willing to admit to his fualts and change. I dont think Denethor would be upset much about Boromir not having the ring because he loved him so much and he would support him in his decision. I think Gondor would become stronger, Boromir could either better defend the Osgiliath with Faramir by his side or send Faramir elsewhere to attack some Mordor reinforcements while he would still defended the city. He might actually died defending and becoming hero smybol lol but...i do not like this idea lol. Both Boromir and Theoden alive...wow what a nice dream! I think it could also cause wide butterfly effect with maybe unexpected outcomes....hell we might even see new kingdom rising ruled by Boromirs descendands or creating new line in Rohan by Faramir & Eowyn while Eomer died or just gained another title....Nevermind. I still like Boromir better than Aragorn, becuase he is not perfect "ideal good" but he shows how you can overcome prejudice and your flaws and become better person. Would love to see a line when Boromir would accomplish that Denethor finnaly sees Faramir as good and worthy son.
Smaller detail for this alternate timeline: In the books, a soldier of Gondor named Beregond was with Pippin during the Battle of Pelennor Fields. He was the one who Pippin came to initially to seek aid in stopping Denethor from burning Faramir, and in doing so, slew three of Denethor's guard before Gandalf could arrive. The punishment for this deed was death, but Aragorn forgave him, instead choosing to banish him from Minas Tirith. However, he was also appointed Captain of the White Company, and lived the rest of his days in Emyn Arnen in service of Faramir, Prince of Ithilien. So if Boromir lived, not only would Denethor have survived, but the three men of Denethor's guard would have as well. Beregond would have continued to live as a mere soldier, not banished from his home, but also not given his rank of Captain. He loved and honored Faramir, so perhaps his fate would have still taken him to Emyn Arnen along with the White Company.
id like to think boromir would have gone with the fellowship. gondor swore on iluvatar that they would come to rohans aid. boromir made the commitment to the fellowhip. gondor had not been attacked yet, but rohan was under attack now, the host of gondor could not come to save rohan, but boromir could. it would be told in song that only two of gondor could be spaired from the defense of gondor. and at helms deep the captain of gondor met the king of gondor to save rohan and together they broke the siege of gondor in the same way.
Damn, I shed a wishing tear thinking about this possibility. Such good deeds could have come from Boromir had him survived. It was indeed a great loss 😢
I love this alternate version of the story! I do think Eowyn and Pipin would still have engaged the witch king on the battle field. This would give reason to keep them both back from the final battle. I also wonder if Farimir would have been spurred on to great deeds during the battle at Pelinor fields, emboldened by his brothers actions? If he came to harm, he would have met the lady Eowyn still in the houses of healing. Would Boromir have continued on to Gondor and left the others to treat with King Theoden? I think he have stayed, and aided them after the purge of Saruman, providing diplomacy and requesting aid from his ally. It is amazing to me to think that one man could have changed so much in the course of such dark times.
I'm not sure that the fellowship would go to king theodin right away. That depends on Gandalf and when they meet him. They for sure wouldn't have met the exiled riders, because the remaining fellowship wouldn't be looking for Merry and Peppin. I think that both Aragon and Boromir would focus on Gondor and go straight to Minas Tirith and the rest would follow without question. Maybe Aragon would argue for visiting Rohan for asking them to allie with Gondor, but they wouldn't be as motivated as if Boromir hadn't fallen and the hobbits taken.
It’s been so long since I have watched any men of the west videos since I am so addicted. And damn it feels so good to watch a video from this channel again. Great video
I thoroughly enjoyed this version of "what if" and always felt Boromir was a great character. I think you hit the nail on the head on this one and it couldn't have been any better no matter who tried their hand at it. A happy ending and my kind of ending! Thanks again.
@@MenoftheWest providing something positive and entertaining that impacts people's lives in a good way is always a good thing. Keep up the good work my friend 😎.
Thanks, Mellon, for Updating, Updating this What If - Theory Video!!! It's Interesting to see how much has changed from the old video to another...(This Version is Lighter in Tone to the other) Until Boromir's Uncle's ECH *I nearly typed Bromir, LOL (My Bro Boromir)* Marion Baggins Out!!!
Hope everything is okay in ur world. Look forward to Sunday videos. A welcome distraction. So over 2020, looking forward to next year being better. Take care, Mellon. The fall of Boromir was truly sad in the books and movie, for sure.
Boromir's death is one of the few movie moments that made me cry. I often wondered what would have happened if Boromir lived. I think the only thing I would change to your theory is that Denethor still has to die. I don't know if he would accept Aragorn as king so easily. I don't want him to burn himself, but he could make a foolish move to prove himself and end up dead.
Perhaps there are others, but I think that this is the first Theory video of yours that I've watched that has wholly positive effects from the change, and I kind of like it. So many other scenarios have had a negative effect if one little thing was changed, but this only has more people live and give stronger relations and better life to the peoples of two different kingdoms.
It would have been nice to have had another hero around, with the whole end of the world and all... Maybe if the elessar stone was used to heal his mind...
I have to disagree. Denathor would now know, through Borrimir, where the ring had gone and would have sent a force to retake it before it reached Mordor. His sons would have had to unseat him to save the city.
I remember keenly the song you sang of Tom Bombadil, the beauty that held, and now listening to your voice I’m reminded of it. Oh how I melt in that voice
I think this "what if Boromir lived" scenario is a bit too optimistic. The six remaining members of the fellowship would probably have gone to Minas Tirith right away - as Aragorn had planned. Gandalf wouldn´t have found them on time and I think he wouldn´t have tried to find them anyway, as he had to stay west and rouse the Ents. Without Merry and Pippin being taken captive by the Uruk-Hai and brought to Fangorn, it´s unlikely the Ents would have marched on Isengard without some external stirring. Also, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli wouldn´t have met Éomer and would have to travel all the way to Minas Tirith on foot. When they finally would have arrived in Denethor´s halls, it´s very likely Denethor would´ve treated Aragorn with some level of hostility, regardless of Boromir´s affection towards Aragorn. I think Boromir would´ve been torn as he would stand in between his father (who he loved very much) and Aragorn (who he admired very much). Instead of a united defense force, there would have been division inside the Tower of Guard - maybe even armed conflict. Remember that in this scenario, Denethor would have been the only one on the side of the West that had access to a palantír and so keep seeing distorted visions that Sauron wanted him to see. It might well be that in an act of despair, Denethor would have given away Aragorn´s identity to Sauron (and perhaps the secret Quest of the Ring as well). All in all, Boromir´s death was sad, but - as Gandalf said himself - ´good´ as well. After he tried to take the Ring from Frodo he repented, he died valiantly and was ultimately redeemed.
Bob Borggreve : I think the Fellowship would have gone to Minas Tirith, but Aragorn himself would have gone after Frodo and Sam, unwilling to let them go to Mordor alone. Boromir’s fall was what warned Aragorn that even he was not immune to the corruption of the Ring.
@@timonsolus In this "what if" scenario, Boromir confessed his attack on Frodo, so Aragorn would still be warned by the dangers of the Ring. I think he even might keep an eye on Boromir.
This was very Great. I really enjoyed the progression of the plot, and to me it all made sense. Another. WHat if the Three Elven Ring's kept there power after the destruction of the One Ring.
What about ISENGARD? Wouldn’t Merry and Pippin not ending up with Treebeard cause Isengard to stick around longer and possibly launch another foray into Rohan or Gondor?
Hey man, thanks for the support! I checked it out! Keep up the great work and keep the passion, and feel free to reach out on Twitter if you have one! Take care, my friend!
If Boromir survived the orcs wouldn't have taken Merry and Pippin. And thus they wouldn't have met the ents and that meeting, the ents wouldn't have interfered in the war. That means that saruman might not have perished and his tower might only be contested after the battle of Minas tirith, maybe even after the war against Sauron. The fellowship wouldn't either have met the riders of Rohan, and with Aragon and Boromir in the group, they would focus on Gondor not Rohan, so the only one who would try to wake Denethor from Wormtoungs control would be the resurrected Gandalf. And he alone would maybe not be enough to save both Rohan and the exiled riders. And without the forest the orcs in Rohan would be able to join the war later. Rohan might then not be able to come to Gondors aid. So I don't think that the men would be better off against Sauron if Boromir survived. The alliance between Gondor and Rohan might be a lot weaker then.
I was thinking that too -- how Gandalf had told the three hunters how the orcs had brought the hobbits to Fangorn with great speed, maybe the nick of time, and said they were like a pebble.. the ent assault on Isengard may have still happened, but not in time to prevent Saruman from maybe participating in the sack of Rohan, or worse thereafter.
Thanks great video!! I really like this ending. We would get to know so much more of his character and I wouldn't need to shed a tear every time he dies.
I have 2 problems with this scenario. 1) Without Boromir’s fall to the power of the Ring, and his subsequent death, and the capture of Merry and Pippin, Aragorn would have been tempted to follow the Ringbearer, feeling that it would be faithless of him to let Frodo and Sam go to Mordor alone, and leave them unprotected from the pursuing Gollum. If Aragorn had stayed with Frodo and Sam, he would not have been available to help Rohan. And even Aragorn was not immune to the corrupting power of the Ring. What would have happened to Frodo and Sam with Aragorn, but without Gollum? 2) I feel that Denethor would not so easily have been persuaded to give up his power. His dream was to see Boromir become Steward of Gondor after him. I think Denethor would claim that while Aragorn may be the rightful heir to the throne of Arnor, west of the Misty Mountains, he was not the heir to the throne of Gondor. He would have been willing, IMO, in the event of victory against Sauron, to help Aragorn reestablish the lost realm of Arnor, but not to accept him as king of Gondor.
If he survives then 2 things happen, the Ents don’t get roused and Faramir is ordered to capture Frodo in Ithilien and bring him back to Minas Tirith, or Boromir himself is sent.
Idea(s): What if Durin’s bane had never come to Moria? What if Bilbo had slain Gollum? What if the company failed and the orcs captured Erebor? What if every member of the fellowship went to Mordor together( including boromir and gandalf ) ? What if bilbo did not come with the company to reclaim Erebor ? What if Elrond took the ring ? What if Smaug took the ring? What if Beorn took the ring?
Good stuff! One theory I would like to see is what if the Fellowship never split. What would happen if the Fellowship stayed together after Amon Hen, and would the quest even be successful?
I’ll say it again another awesome insightful video. I really think of you did a video/podcast of the reading of the books would be awesome👍. Keep up the hard work.
I wish for you to do an if Sauron had lived at the battle of the Last Alliance, or an if Aragorn had died, or even if Rohan had gone to war with Gondor.
Only found this now. Very Tolkien. Of course he'd grow and stay Loyal. He was akin to a Hero of Numenor of old. The impact is quite massive. As for Eowyn all she'd need is one interaction between Gandalf and Faramir talking about Faramir treating the ring like yesterday's socks and Aragorn playing wingman by saying there is a man that has more resolve than I. They'd be Married en route.
I wept when you said that Theoden would survive the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. I've always loved the grace and dignity he had and, though glad he died honorably in combat, am more happy to imagine him ruling Rohan longer. Perhaps I see a much needed noble father figure in Theoden since Alzheimer's and Parkinson's robbed me of my father.
Your scenario is far too optimistically. It would be more likely that Rohan would be gone and after that the power of both towers would have smashed the remainder of elbs, men and dwarves.
I believe Sauron had Lord Denethor on the edge already, since he was looking into the palantir, like crack..even if Boromir came back, he would have told him about the ring. Denethor would at first just be happy to have him back, but his poisoned mind would lead him into fury and rage about the loss of the ring and may even have Boromir go after Frodo. Boromir would not do this and would be thrown into prison most likely, and Gondor would not be as well prepared if this was to play out!
Hey Yoystan! Big fan! I haven’t seen this video yet so tell me if it already exists: “what if theoden heeded gandalf’s advice on the defense of edoras?” Thanks for doing what you do!
