What If Eastern Rome Never Fell? - Rome Today | Alternate History 

?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I want the borders to be sexy and good : (

@@eternal_riftz8801 aren't these borders sexy if you include Antioch and reach the danube from thrace?

@@TheHunterOfYharnam i would prefer if they didn't annex hungary ,Moldavia and Wallachia but instead they take Mauritania and mesopotamia

Thank you man. And yeah, it was very possible. And Manzikert was probably the best chance they had to live on. They maybe could've had another shot in the 1200's too I'd say. They were making a comeback and taking back Anatolia from the Turks. But then the 4th crusade happened, where the crusaders raided Constantinople and destroyed the empire. And that was basically when it was over for Rome. From then on they struggled to stick around until the Ottomans took over Constantinople finally in 1453. Biggest dick move in history that 4th crusade. They were called to help against the muslims and ended up destroying a thousands of year old empire they were supposed to protect.

​@@Neatling Yeah... Constantinople was the center of christian civilization and the crusaders destroyed it all. Not too long after the mongols invaded anatolia and weakened the turkish presence there, that would have been the best opportunity for the byzantines to retake all of anatolia if the fourth crusade never happened. Keep up the good work, ill share this channel with my friends they love history as well.

It wasn't really one battle they did recover after Manzekert and nearly retook took all of Anatolia however the Crusaders stacked Constantinople in 1204 effectively killing the Empire even though they reclaimed the city they then had a bunch of civil wars in the 14th century that left them two weak to repeal the Ottomans if the Crusaders hadn't sacked Constantinople than the Empire may never have fallen and they would have likely regained the whole of Anatolia especially after the collapse of the Mongol Empire and the power vacuum that that would leave

@@jacobhall9321 I know, I said that in my other comment. However, the fourth crusade not happening wouldnt solidify their survival, it would only give them a chance. The empire wasn't in the best of shape but it at least was a force in their region. Manzikert was their absolute best chance for survival due to the fact that they were basically a superpower before the battle. They most likely would have remained an offensive force if they won and wouldn't have had the turks trench themselves into central anatolia like in the post manzikert state. Plus, they actually did recover a little after 1261 when they reclaimed constantinople after the sack. They just had too much political division and civil war and their neighbors took advantage of it, such as the serbians which took half of their territory. I'd say they MAYBE would have survived if the sack never happened, but it is ensured they would have survived if they never lost at Manzikert.

Even if they won manzikert the Turks would have still settled Anatolia perhaps in lesser numbers

Oh damn, that's true. Imagine the architecture of this nation. It would be the country with the best tourist attractions in the world.

The roof and inner colonnade had been destroyed by the barbarian invasions at the end of the Roman empire(west), but rebuilt a as a church….it was the outer colonnade and cellar walls including pediments that had always remained intact up to 1687

haha

Really appreciate it. And don't we all ;)

@@Neatling If the Eastern Roman Empire (Roman Republic) exist to this day as describe in your video, what would be the prevailing politics and cultural ideology?

Same here

Same

Same here

Great point, Athens may be a fair bit smaller actually. Although I still think it would be an important city.

Important certainly, but bigger than Thessaloniki is a big stretch. Maybe comparable to Patras, Irakleion, or Ikonion

Same could be said for Anakara/Ancyra tbh

Maybe it would act as the biggest port

@@the_bathroom No the biggest Port will be Constantinople's and second Thessaloniki

Thanks man

@@Neatling Also, I've got a suggestion. What if Operation Valkyrie was successful?

Help us make it real join the fight

@@billvilmezis5968 Well I think that it's a bit unrealistic to make this real now lol. And also, many people would have to be killed or forced to assimilate

@@ivanf.482 revenge

@@billvilmezis5968 Well we're in 2021, I think times have changed and we should build peace. Also, those people don't have fault of stuff that their ancestors did

@@ivanf.482 tell that to the turks

Same

Everyone does

Same

Don't we all?

me too

jeez 10x in 2 months

@@user-uh5gl8py4q No

What if Gunther Burstyn's prototype tank en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunther_Burstyn was accepted by the German military in 1911? How would a German headstart in tank development affect WWI? Burstyn's tank were well thought out and perfect for crossing trenches with him already having begun planning in 1903. How would German tanks have affected trench warfare? Would Paris have fallen? From a quick search I also found this website: tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww1-austro-hungary-burstyn-motorgeschutz/

@@nichl474 I will look into it! Are you looking for a "Germany wins ww1 scenario"? Or maybe just a ww1 stalemate scenario, with no harsh treaty like the treaty of Versailles? You are free to choose how the scenario plays out if you want to. You don't have to of course. But otherwise, I am thinking that it having a major impact on ww1 would be more interesting to showcase in the video.

@@Neatling I'm just looking into a "What if Imperial Germany had tanks scenario?". I'm not saying they have to win or lose the war, but just the ramifications and how it would change the war. For example, if Hitler and the General Staff had been proponents of more traditional warfare and not of Blitzkrieg, the Maginot plan would've never worked and Poland wouldn't have been overrun and we could have seen a more decisive Allied victory possibly without US involvement and no Cold War. I'm looking for a timeline where the Germans can counter trench warfare (but not use Blitzkrieg, that came later with better tanks and new tactics) and how a more mobile war would've turned out.

@@nichl474 So you want more so a discussion of ways it could play out? And less so just choosing one path as I've done in previous videos? Because there are many possibilities lol. And if I went with my usual style of choosing one path, it would exclude other things. For instance, if the Germans got at least a stalemate and no harsh treaty of Versailles, we might not even have a second world war or Hitler at all. At least not the same kind of world war between a Nazi Germany and the Allies/Soviets. So more of a discussion of several ways it could change things? This scenario might deserve its own video because the community video is going to be several scenarios in one video, so they have to be summarized a fair bit. Unless I completely misunderstood you, I'm thinking I'll include a short version of this, more focused on a ww1 victory or stalemate maybe. But still summarizing how the Germans getting the tank first would change ww1, just following this one possible path. Then I could do a video in the future going into more detail and discussing other possibilities and ramifications. It could be interesting. But it would require an entire video to give the scenario proper justice I think.

@@Neatling Looking at your channel, you've only got 2 video series. Far from enough for me to know your "video style" or to know what a good idea/what's a bad idea. Whatifalthist for example does have a scenario where Nazi Germany invented nuclear bombs, where he analyzes what would've changed and whether this would've resulted in a different outcome, which it didn't (just more destruction). I've also never seen a "Community Scenario" series and assumed it referred to a series of videos. Of course it's fine if that idea doesn't fit with your channel; I could try making a video myself, if it's not your style, since I'm thinking of starting another RU-vid channel soon, though I lack the charisma and am bad at writing scripts (I have an abandoned channel with 150 subs and 800-8k views per video with no voice similar to Tigerstar's). If you want a simpler suggestion, maybe "What if Spain remained Muslim?" would be better?

*Constantinople

@@Michael_the_Drunkard :)

Thankyou :))

Thank you!

The existence of turkey 🇹🇷, it’s just disrespect to all humanity!

@@Ment2703 yeah ikr rogue country

YES

So if this is the good one then whats the best ending

Gives the Romans AKs so they can win

@@pocketmarcy6990 I'm gonna print out the WHOLE of Italian wiki and present it to the byzantine emperor so he knows wtf is up😂

@@momo-cchi5978 shouldn’t it be Greek Wiki though since that’s the language of the Romans at that time?

@@pocketmarcy6990 Oh, you right. Idk how the fuck I forgot about that. 🤦🏽‍♂️

@@momo-cchi5978 You would still have to print it in koine greek though, as eastern romans didn't speak modern greek

Thanks :D

I also think it should at least have some territory in Western Europe such as Sicily and perhaps Corsica.

@Ur thetraveler LUL

from bıthynıa

Cyprus's capital should be Limassol?

Thank you. Is there anything you would like to see changed in future videos? Or improved upon?

@@Neatling I already shared my ideas with you under the reddit post of your vid. I go by the name u/Fehervari there.

@@fehervari98 Ah, right, I remember your comment. Thanks for coming by again! Right now I'm working on a different scenario (probably not the most plausible one), but I will be returning to this scenario to expand on some things, mainly other places than just Rome itself, that are affected heavily by the changes in this scenario. I'm not sure exactly how I will go about it yet, but I'm thinking it will be a part 3 follow up video where I focus mainly on the changes to Egypt, Armenia, and the Middle East, as well as the Balkans. That will hopefully cover some of the things you and possibly others felt were missing. But of course, apart from redoing the scenario entirely, I can't really change that I chose that many world events remain the same in this timeline. But I will take what you said on Reddit into consideration for future scenarios.

@@Neatling In the end, it all comes down to wether you're enjoying working on these scenarios or not. So I hope you have fun with these!

@@fehervari98 Very true. And I sure do! Sure, writing scripts can also be tedious. But at the same time, it's like creating your own little worlds, and that's fun. And seeing the final product after all that work is always really satisfying.

It'd be more religious, because not only is the religious head of faith stationed inside of the Empire, it would have a strong faith as it fends off Islamic invasions to the southeast of it and would most likely not have the type of religious wars the catholic faith had. So it'd be the latter countries you mentioned. Though this is speculation as this timeline doesn't exist and I also didn't make this timeline.

Well it could be something in the middle

Yes

More like Oghuz who?

@@trantorcapitalofthegalacti3173 emies i ellines eixame pola onomata stin istoria mas. Romiosini simeni to idio opos ellinismos

@@trantorcapitalofthegalacti3173 re file den adithono masi sou. Den eipa pote oti den eimaste i apogoni tous arxaious ellines

Sadly, when it comes to geopolitics and history, some just have to end up with the short end of the stick. At least the Greek nation exists today, and you have most of your ancestral homelands. But of course Greeks are no longer the largest group in Anatolia as they once were. I hope Turkey properly democratizes one day, and wish for better relations between your two countries in the future.

@@Neatling Electons are on the way by the 2023. İt will be the first time that i will have the right to vote. A Democratized Turkey that respects its smaller minorities such as Lazs, Hemshens and Circassians with Zero corruption, Legal code that gets implemented properly, and that gets along well with its neigbors curse the Russia and China im talking about getting along with Greece and Balkans. Who knows? maybe we can find ourselves in the Eu as well, or at least not being hated by them. İ just want to have a life where i can think of a future that doesnt includes trying to flee from the country as it becomes another İran and Pakistan.

It's possible. We will never know. The country could also have kept the name Rome, since it was literally Rome. And that name had a lot of prestige. Even more prestige when it is actually the continuation of ancient Rome. And then the people may just call themselves Greeks. Greeks living in Rome. It would also be more mindful to the minorities. Remember, the Roman Empire wasn't a Latin speaking empire only. Ever since it conquered the Greek speaking world, it was a very bilingual Empire. And Greek was a core part of what it meant to be Roman. Latin was the language of government and the lingua Franca in the western half. Greek was the language of Science and philosophy, and the lingua franca in the east. Many spoke both. Then of course Greek became the only major language some time after the fall of the west. So it remaining Rome isn't impossible. But of course the Greek majority could also just push for a renaming to Greece. If they were to do so, it could happen after the civil war in my scenario for instance. During the rise of nationalism and such.

@@Neatling Yeah sure,i mean the term Rome was used in many cases by various empires (Holy Roman Empire for example) to identify the kind of state they were living on. But still we should not underestimate the renaissance period, as it was vital for the revival of the old civilisations

@@steliosgkelis1517 And this wasn't like other empires using the name Rome. The "byzantine empire" was actually the Roman Empire. What remained of it. And true. But I don't even know how exactly the renaissance would happen in this world, if at all. What started the renaissance in our world was actually Roman scholars fleeing the Turks when Constantinople fell. Most of them went to Italy. But regardless you could think about these things forever. We can never know what exactly would happen. Interesting to think about none the less.

@@Neatling It is notable that the Greeks had already been calling themselves Hellenes (Greek) in certain situations before the fall of Constantinople. For example, emperor Constantine referred to his people in his last speech as "his faithful Greeks, descendants of the Romans". But still, I really enjoyed this scenario. It is a fact that with a few less wars and slaughters, Greeks here would have prospered. And in fact, a case could be made for colonisation through the Horn of Africa, possibly in India. Good job!

@@Neatling not greece....Hellenic. It would be a Hellenic Roman Republic

Probably they would start identifying themselves as Greeks. When Constantinople fell to the Latins/Franks in 1204, there was a resurgence in the Byzantine rump states (like the Empire of Nicaea), where they start to call themselves Hellenes or Graikoi, though that still depends on many factors that would lead to the modern era region of Greece. Probably, they would call themselves either Greeks, Greco-Romans, or Greeks who have inherited the Roman culture.

They still called themselves Romans until the 18th century

Yeah I have been planning to do a part 3. Can't promise when, but at some point I will take a closer look at the surrounding countries and changes in them.

@@Neatling that's cool! Thank you!!!

@@chrisplourde4862 No problem man. I'm in the middle of writing the script, and now I'm just wondering how in the world I handle Israel and Palestine. Yikes. Never make any alternate history video that involves that region lol

@@Neatling I know one wrong word and you'll start ww3 in the comments section😅

Trapezounta won't be as big yet, but it should become a Superhub.

Of course there would be, but the Hereditary and Legality as Eastern Rome. Italy tried to sew the Roman's back together, but the Greeks in this universe never lost everything they worked so hard to get

Thats why he said, they are either Greek or their first language is Greek

@@gamingdealer9514 - I don't think we understand each other, the thing you say is exactly the one I was having doubts about.

@@And-lj5gb ah sorry. Yes there would still be some small towns that would probably retain their language, but the population would be very small to matter.

@@And-lj5gb perhaps the population would be a bit smaller but not by a lot, and there would be a bit more foreigners close to the borders but all of Greece, Cyprus, Thrace/most of Bulgaria, half of albania, skopje, and 8-9/10ths of anatolia would be Greek, either way as time passed the more Greek it would be

They were all happy being part of the Orthodox Roman Empire. They only have problems because of the Ottomans.

What would that be like?

@@xavierlauzac5922 them saying look at this doofus

I wouldn’t mind that big wall in East Anatolia tho

Yes

Non this timeline they wouldn't even be Arab states they be Christian ones since they had had a sizable Christian minority populations back around 1071and after centuries under Roman rule it would have been heavily christianized the British and the French took those territories because one the British wanted to protect the Suez Canal and two Syria had great trade ports and due to the financial prospects of of the Levant Coast and eastern Mediterranean that was why that they were colonized by the British and French

I will be covering my take on this in a part 3 very soon. Prepare for the ensuing controversy lol. But before I post anything let's just all remember that this is purely historical fiction. I'm just writing my own little world based on what I think COULD happen. None of us will ever know what would actually happen.

@@jacobhall9321 dude, Arabs can also be Christian.

@@Michael_the_Drunkard I know that's the point of the comment the local Arab population would have been Christiansted

Appreciate it man. And that actually sounds like it could be pretty interesting to do a video on. I'm already working on a video on what if the Russian revolution never happened. But maybe the video after that! I'll definitely do it at some point.

I did add Antioch in part 3. The scenario kinda evolved a bit with each episode.

I already have it written down as a video idea actually. Could be interesting to look into.

Interesting idea. Added to my now frankly pretty long list of video ideas lol. But if you follow along on the channel I will get to it eventually. I have already thought about doing something on ww1. But probably not a German victory because it's so overdone at this point.

I'd like to see a post-apocaliptic post ww1 Europe, after a great war which lasted years and years, and consumed many generations

me too lol

Nothing wrong with that

@@absoluteunit3885 of course

Imagine the amount of feta cheese i can eat.....

As in what if western Rome survived instead of the east? Or if all of Rome survived?

@Neatling The west surviving instead of the east

@@Void_Dweller7 Could be interesting. I have considered doing videos on both

@Neatling 👍

Probably split in multiple pieces like France did back in the days

Ik so sad 😞😞😞😞

A lot of places in the US are named after European countries/cities/regions, what's the prob? The city of Rome =/= Roman empire