What if Harkon WON!? - A Vampire's Tamriel - Elder Scrolls Theory 

Harkon: Disables the sun Sheogorath: Creates a giant cheese wheel that glows just like the sun Harkon: Am I a joke to you?

Harkon: Conquers Tamriel Pelinal Whitestrake: Here we go again

Great video. One other point, if I might: as the living population dwindles, so do new potential vampires. While ageless, vampires are still very mortal in the sense that they can be killed, and unless there's an established truce between them, they're probably still going to end up fighting and killing one another for whatever reason (look at how back-stabby everyone in Volkihar Castle is towards one another). All those Mage-Lights-to-Grow-Crops settlements become increasingly-appetizing targets, for blood, luxuries and potential progeny. Eventually, though, it becomes increasingly-likely that vampires still die off faster than they're able to be replaced. In the end, you probably end up with single, solitary vampires, hiding away from all others, in isolated crypts, scattered around the continent. But hey, at least Harkon gets to rule over... something.

Next, do a what-if of Miraak returning to Nirn :D For example, what would he do about Alduin?

I'm really surprised you didn't mention anything about the Dwemer ruins. I mean Blackreach is a whole little world of it's own that gets zero sunlight. Also the Dwemer ruins have torches that run off of natural gas I think, which is a heat source. Great video though, very cool idea to speculate on.

I would be interested if a faction made a pact with Meridia to gain a new access to "sun light". It would admittedly be kind of cool to see a story where a champion wielded the Dawnbreaker against the Vampires. Hell with knowing how much she hates the undead I wouldn't be surprised if she actively sought out a champion to fight them. I actually think that she would get incredibly powerful because of the amount of people that would worship her out of need. Damn, fan fiction that situation. A NEW HAND TOUCHES THE BEACON

People seem to forget that some plant organisms don’t rely on photosynthesis for energy. Therefore, people would simply start eating those plants instead.

Plot twist: Meridia makes a giant beacon that replaces the sun and allows human civilization to continue normally.

Before turning to Vampirism people might turn more fervently towards worship, especially the Daedra who might actually be apt to provide solutions

The problem: Harkon kills the sun, thus kills plants, this kills vegans, this kills omnivores, this kills carnivores, this kills vampires. The food chain eats itself all the way up with no sunlight. The more vampires that convert, the faster they go through a now finite number of people from which to feed. And yes, non plot armor vampires need to feed, even in the Elder Scrolls games. Even if they hibernate between feedings, they wake up to an empty planet.

What about Mortals invading the Dwemer ruins?

Also, how do we know that “blocking out the sun” means literally blocking all the light? It’s obviously still there, what if it just is a filter that makes it so vamps aren’t affected by it? Or what if it only blocks the magical aspect that makes vamps successful? Or what if it just blocks out a certain spectrum of light? Then nothing would change, it would just be darker. The same amount of light would get through, crops wouldn’t die, and vampires could do what they want within reason, and of course maybe it just blocks out the magicka from the Aetherius, and that concentrated magic energy is what hurts them, because there just so much compared to starlight, perhaps everything would be exactly the same just magika would regenerate slower, which is still a good trade off then not at all during the day. It might even have certain economic boons, as magicka regeneration potions and apparel would be even more sought after, though this may also not happen or cause problems through short supply. I just can’t imagine that blocking out the sun causing damage is the real goal, the vampires aren’t trying to create a barren world devoid of life after all, so we need to remember that this sun and the sun of our universe operate very differently, as it’s not actually a ball of plasma in the elder scrolls, it’s a hole in the sky that leaks a lot of light from atherius, and it may not be responsible for temperatures as much as in our world, as it wouldn’t make sense seeing as the south is hot but the north is cold, but only in some places, and the middle is like America or Britain. It just doesn’t make sense, so we can infer that it doesn’t operate like our sun, or at least that physics are different. I mean we already knew that since horses can climb mountains better than humans or goats, so yeah. I think everyone forgets that this isn’t the sun, a big ball of heat and plasma that warms things up, it’s a giant hole that lets magical light in as well as magicka, therefore it wouldn’t have any adverse side effects, after all it is a fantasy and things don’t function like in real life. We don’t even know if Mundas is flat or round, while these may be obvious in our world and thus we’d assume this is so in this world, we can’t verify that, as the creation story and entire deal is completely different. I again say that it most likely wouldn’t matter, the vampires know that plants need sunlight, and that without it everything would die eliminating their only food source and also if it operated liek in the real world Mundas would freeze over, trapping the vampires in their own web. Form these facts that are seemingly present we can infer one of two things: the sun doesn’t work like in ours and doesn’t affect temperature and plant life and such; or that the bow blotting out the sun is metaphorical/not truly blocking it out as in no light. The reason is because the vampires aren’t idiots, and these are the only ways their plan would do anything but freeze them in ice trapping them for eternity unable to die, or at least creating a wasteland devoid of life in which they can’t do much of anything because the creatures and plants and food, aka humans, are dead. So again, I think we’re misunderstanding how the bow or sun really works. Even if they don’t need to feed, they would still be depressed, as no plants could exist, and again that’s if the world didn’t just freeze over, so again I think we’re just misunderstanding something

So how about another theory what if the wolf queen had been brought back to life

Vampires would die off and Mages would become the new government.

Miraak: Finally I have returned to Tamri... Was the sun always so cold and black/red-ish?

I was playing Oblivion a while ago and you wont believe my excitement when I read a book talking about vampires of tamriel and saw that the Volkihar were mentioned

Hircine would be like : "Well, let's find a prophecy about permanent full moons"

Knowing Nords, they'd probably just blame it on the College of Winterhold

"Alright time to get these assignments done before school holidays end." *iPad lights up in corner of my eye* "Fudgemuppet has uploaded a new video" *slams desk*

Theory: Molag Bal keeps the mortals as slaves, sustaining them through daedric magic. Vampires who earn his favour through feats of domination (perhaps over other vampires) will be allowed to enter coldharbour periodically to feed on these daedra-sustained cattle. Maybe creating a power struggle between bloodlines and clans to earn their lord's favour.

Harkon: “You wouldn’t understand” Dragonborn: “Understand what? That without the sun all the plant life would gonna die which would kill all the animals which would kill all the humans which would eventually kill all the vampires?” Harkon: “Wait, what?” Credit to seanzoz on his series “The Senile Scribbles”, which I highly recommend everyone watching.

When you think about it photosynthisis can explain the magical properties of plants in the elder scrolls universe since sunlight is the magic of aetherius

Lord Harkon: (Builds an army of undead) Meridia: "I'm about to ruin this man's whole carrier." (starts spamming dawn-breakers and aurorans)

Are we sure the sun disappears, and isn't simply warped/corrupted by magic to not effect vampires? So maybe plants and whatnot could still survive?

Thoughts on colonizing Blackreach to survive without becoming a vampire: purge the Falmer and automatons, reinforce and fortify the lifts, use the artificial sun and the bio-luminescence of the mushrooms to cultivate crops and livestock, sustain. Akin to the Forgotten City mod's city but with the benefit of a Dwemer artificial sun.

Molag Bal approves

If Harkon won I can say goodbye to sun burns so.........hey why don’t we let him win

You kind of just rolled over the sun magic. Like if there are spells that can literally create sunlight surely some mage groups could maintain an artificial sun. Of course that wouldn't be enough to sustain societies as large as in the current Tamriel but there could still be some mortals living in small communities in well fortified areas.

I'm wondering if Hircine would see this as an opportunity to create more werebeasts in some kind of great hunt where vampires are the prey. Since it seems like vampires and werebeasts already disdain each other

I'm a vampire girl in a vampire world Undeath and blood magic, it's kinda tragic

Upvote for more skyrim what if video's

Can you do more of these "What if scenarios" I think they are really intresting to think about

The plants would die due to lack of sun causing no oxygen, but that would be a cop out so Babette would kill harkon and become a vampire queen.

One thing that you're forgetting about Harkon and his ilk is that they are very arrogant. Harkon wouldn't fear the 'lesser races' of Tamriel and would likely attempt to establish himself as the undisputed Lord of Tamriel. This would be the opportunity for men and mer to destroy him.

I have always assumed that the blood sun, just made it so that the vampires aren't affected, not cause plant-life to die and temperature to lower.

sheogorath would come out of oblivion and stop harkon because he would lose his play things and well you know him being pissed would be a very bad thing not just to mortals but all beings including other deadric lords

I think you'd end up with Harkon (who has had forever to plan this out) setting up, maintaining, and protecting "cattle ranches" of mortals. Vampires in TES may be able to survive without blood, but they certainly are driven to feed. Harkon isn't starving or struggling without the prophecy, so clearly he's interested in improving his power or satisfaction, not becoming some sort of ascetic. Other clans would probably do more or less the same, but Harkon being the planner and first actor benefits him. Resolution would probably come from one of the other Daedra or possibly Aedra, one or ones whose power or condition would be negatively altered by Harkon's domination of the human herd, and as older, more powerful, and (probably cleverer) beings, would thwart him in some way. Failing that, if Harkon does manage to come out on top, maybe he becomes the vampire version of Talos? The Ayelid was a slave-supported empire, so it's not really outside of the lorescope of TES that there could be a vampire-dominated empire with an underclass of mortal cattle/laborers. Finally, this may be the real reason Valerica and Serana abandon his scheme - they prefer their relatively carefree unlives feeding on mortals as they choose and have no desire to usher in an era of extreme competition, betrayal, and political calculation. Sort of like the Anarcho-Primitives of vampirism. They may also simply fear that by directly threatening the worship source of most Aedra/Daedra Harkon is placing vampires in the crosshairs of the most cunning and also the most virtuous beings in the universe. Maybe this is the real worry, that Molag Bal and by extention vampires will end up suffering a similar fate to Jyggalag.

I think if this were to happen Meridia would bring her aurorans back to combat the undead. Azura and Boethia would possibly get involved also. Hell even the Aedra might give us a vampire slaying version of Pelinal Whitestrake.

The last time I was this early the snow elves were still in Skyrim.... ;)

the dawnguard disapproves

If Harkon won it would be because of lag.

KILL THE DAY STAR!!!! IT BURNS!!! By the way, tempatures in caves remain constant in relation to outside tempatures.

In the end all would flock to Lord Mehrunes Dagon, Lord of change and rebellion, to bring about yet again his red legion.

I think that if this happened and Vampires started to move upon Skyrim, I think that The Companion's would spring into action, joining the Dawnguard AND recruiting more werewolves. Then, we would get instead of the civil war between the Imperial's and Stormcloaks, we would have the CLASSIC war between Vampires and Werewolves.

Something I've always noticed is that despite the environment going night when you darken the sun...There is still clearly enough light to see, suggesting that the bow corrupted the light of the sun not fully blocking it out.

Theoretically, Serana's mother would also be a suitable sacrifice to curse the arrows. Both her and her mother are "Daughters of Coldharbor". So Harkon never actually had to kill his daughter.

I feel like you overlooked Meridia on purpose when touching on the Daedra, specifically as a uniting force, or even a life sustaining one in a world without sunlight. Garbaging the idea of her outright solving the problem, she is a Daedra of light and of life. Her realm is made of the very light of Aetherius, and that light is what sustains life and warmth on Mundus. She would be a uniting force required against the undead, and to summon her, one only needs offer a trophy taken from an undead. Undead slain in trades for the Light of Aetherius, as the Daedra are not fond of benevolence, but have been known to strike deals. She wouldn't outright solve the problem, because that isn't how Daedra do, but that isn't to say she wouldn't reward service. And service would guarantee continued survival

And when everyone’s super..... NO ONE WILL BE!! Harkon should take some notes from Syndrome.

Photosynthesis is not a thing in the elder scrolls universe. There is no evidence of its existence, and if it was it’d be tied to Kynareth, and therefore changeable so life can continue to survive thereafter

You forgot that mages can create orbs of energy, like that in the arch mage's quarters, to help crops grow. Many magically adept individuals would be able to keep the crops alive even without the sun.

If small groups like the Dawnguard could find vampire hideouts on their own, you don't the combined intelligence networks of the most powerful nations in Tamriel could figure it out? They would obviously target Harkon and the Volkihar clan first, killing them all in revenge. After which, there would likely be a massive, joint undertaking by all nations to route out every other group of vampires across Tamriel, to prevent any others from committing similarly destructive acts. This level of vampire hunting would be unprecedented. As it is, vampires need to be careful of small, dedicated organizations of vampire hunters. Committing a whole nation's army to the task would devastate them. Multiple nations? Complete and merciless eradication.

But who’s to say that red sun would kill crops? It would be possible that either crops would grow tainted or mages could create miniature suns without the psijic order.

Wouldn't the Moth Priests instantly realize that a prophecy had been fulfilled and would not every alliance hear of the permanent darkness immediately after?

molag bal gets too powerful, other daedra lords would interfere and deal with him like they did with jyggalag, also I think mages would find a way to unblock the sun, or conjure up some equivalent source of light

The Dawnguard would have known who's responsible. The mortal races wouldn't need some grand alliance between all the races to defeat the Volkihars. Tullius and Ulfric forming a temporary alliance would have been enough. Add the Dawnguard (now incredibly popular) and the Companions and the Volkihar are screwed. It doesn't matter whether or not it would change what is going on. Wiping out those who are responsible would have been the first priority. Also, you're assuming no magical intervention in a world with constant magical interventions. There would be magical intervention. That makes your whole video pointless. In the worst case scenario the Thalmor brings the light of the sun back, then takes advantage of their new popularity. By the way, the light of the sun being blocked would not affect temperature, and life would likely adept.

What about the Hist? The sentient... trees would (try) to sustain their cold-blooded "underlings/friends" the Argonians, but how would that work (assuming the Hist need sunlight to live, and the Argonians need the Hist to live, or would it be more like the Hist recalls all/most of the Argonians like during the Oblivion Crisis to combat the vampires or even invade Coldharbour much like the Deadlands during the Oblivion Crisis...)? "Coincidentally, Argonian armies in Black Marsh were warned of the upcoming Oblivion Crisis by the Hist, and were thus prepared before the Oblivion Gates opened. A radical faction in Black Marsh called the An-Xileel rallied the armies of Black Marsh into fighting the hordes of Daedra invading their home. They poured into Mehrunes Dagon's Deadlands and fought the Daedra on their own turf so successfully the Dremora Lieutenants closed their gates to prevent being overrun" (elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Accession_War).

You know what would have been really cool? If we could negotiate with the Arch Curate and help him get cured by Falion. I felt bad for the dude knowing he was screwed over by his god.

Probably there would be increased number of Werewolfs across the entire Tamriel if Harkon would win. 😎

Thinking about it, the subteranian places already do pretty well without sunlight, despite a good deal of frost already on the surface. One would assume you probably could have people running there with Nords fighting the Falmer for land and resources.

Harkon takes out the sun. All of Tamriel: where is he? We can't find him. We looked ever.... Meridia: Liar's Retreat

Merdia kicked molag bals butt in his own realm of oblivion so she would get angry and make a second sun that shots lazer beams at undead

Harkon was destined to fall, the writers never intended him to win, that's why he dies which ever side you picked in the DLC. Ehr... I mean, the gods would have never allowed the prophecy to come true, that's why the Last Dragonborn stopped Harkon. Which in return questioned the exsistence of said prophecy, why make it if it is doomed to fail...

Valerica would have predicted correctly and everyone would have united to destroy the vampires of Nirn forever

I have a feeling the Dawnguard would know exactly whats going on and after months of telling the holds about the vampire problem, this would be enough proof for all holds to get together. They'd know ho was behind i cause the dawnguard have been warning them since the dragonborn was level 10 lol

I think you're forgetting a few things: for one, Harkon wants to bring eternal night solely for the purpose of him being sick of hiding. He craves power, he desires to rule all, and that was before his Vampirism. Now, being overwhelmed by molag bal's affliction, he desire only to dominate all others. He simply wouldn't be able to resist his cravings for power and would ultimately launch an assault on Skyrim at the first chance he got.

Valuh-REEEEE-ka Sorry, I couldn't resist. Serana pronounces it as "Val-Erica"

If this happened I would bee line for blackreach, somewhere with a portable sun, infrastructure for crops, and water... and best of all big tiddie falmer gfs

Pointing out; blackreach. Funguses in blackreach can be grown for food, like the falmer do. They do not need the sun. Some of the plants and creatures from Morrowind might also be used to living without the sun thanks to red mountain

It's not like the leaders really join together to fight the dragons without the players intervention. I think a world where Harkon wins would be far more interesting to play in.

Who's this valor-reeka chick you speak of?

I mean taking out the sun and not feeding makes vampires stronger the longer they don't feed. So the longer Harkon was hidden the more powerful he'd become

Harkon seems vain enough, that he would proclaim wide and far that he was the one who destroyed the Sun

That battle royale vid was a good watch ill admit it.

Azura, Meridia, Mehrunes Dagon, Malacath, Peyrite, and even Sheogorath and Hircine will team up to reverse the damage dealt by the arrows. Azura and Meridia especially would have figured out how to fix this.

Any chance for a “What if” Mehrunes Dagon had succeeded in the Oblivion Crisis?

Lack of sun wouldn't even end life, the vampires could live off Falmer blood.

I think that the writers would have chosen a different route. (Sun)light is basically magic, in the form of light. I think they'd say that instead of photesynthesis they used "magic-synthesis" for plants. Any organism that depends on sunlight for chemical processe could very well be explained away by the writers, using this broad theory. As soon as you have that herbivored can survive, so then carni and omnivores can too. Sure crop yields and overal magic would hit dangerous low levels, but life CAN and would survive. Imo.

We’re also forgetting Gelebor, the snow elf. As a devout follower of Auriel and gifted in the magical arts, it’s not unlikely to think that he would be able to know how to reverse the affect. And given that he is the only one who can make sun hallowed arrows, it’s not out of reason to think he could perform the same action on an elven bow, therefore creating a mock Auriels bow, temporarily being able to reverse the affect until they find the real bow. And certain vampires may actually wish to see the world reversed, so they could join the hunt. Throw in the imperial legion, the stormcloaks and other armies, there would be millions of people fighting the vampire menace.

Then time would be reversed and the Dragonborn would reappear and harken would forget their fight, but the Dragonborn won’t

If this all did come to fruition I imagine that vampires that feed off of other vampires would eventually arise

It would be interesting to see how that would pan out in the distant future when proper technology exist, just imagine an empire of space vampires.

Two words: elder scrolls. Using them they would figure out pretty easily who's responsible, but that's pretty much plot convenience. There's also the Augur of Dunlain and his prophetic words. At the very least Colette and her restoration magic will finally get the respect they both deserves since a simple healing spell would be all that's needed to tell if an individual is a vampire or not.

But how do we know that changing the sun would remove its positive effects? I mean, would plants be unable to photosynthesize with a bloodcursed sun? After all, while the sun is transformed, it is still there. It could just alter the effects of life forms. Perhaps plants would turn red and produce blood instead of sugar

You should do a part 2 of this, from the viewpoint if since you’re blocking out the sun using magic the sun just isn’t effecting the vampires To explain it, it would be that the sun isn’t off, or gone, it’s just more or less a magical filter preventing vampires from taking negative effects and providing darkness but it’s not blocking anything else I think it would be the only other plausible outcome that wouldn’t involve divine intervention

I think itd be interesting to write a book about that: a world shrouded in permenant darkness and bitter cold, where vampires rule and mortals are driven into smaller societies in an attempt to cling to life. It idea has a real post apocalyptic fantasy vibe to it.

Wait,don't plants make food form the light? And vampires are only weak to the heat hence fire damage So technically speaking plants and animals could still thrive.

The vamps could always feed on Falmer and even spread them as a crop on the surface. Their society and ecosystem exists without the sun.

i have never joined lord harkon in any of my play through ,its about time.

You should make a "What if Miraak defeated the Dovahkiin and escaped Apocrypha?"

Honestly? nothing. if you've ever tried it by shooting a blood tainted arrow at the sky, the sun doesn't go away it just turns red. That's a pretty livable affliction. On top of that his wife was right, the armies of the world would unite to completely eradicate vampires and a few hundred or even a few thousand vampires are just no match for that kind of thing. Especially since in elder scrolls the vampires and werewolves are no harder to kill than anything else.

The Fulmar would be an example of what those cave-dwelling beings could become.

What if, and hear me out, the lack of light actually has NO effect. I mean, the sun provides magika, and thus energy. If it is blocked out, but magika persists, then that means energy is still coming to Nirn. This means that the only effect could be a lack of harmful sunlight to vampires, which means that everything could, in theory, stay the same just dark.

I'd be interested in how Akavir would react to this.

Make "What if Miraak won"

also perhaps the thalmor would create a sort of bubble around their territory which has a giant magic light ball or something and some kind of mass scale heating for the ocean and land. i said this not as an answer but as a "the thalmor will probably try that"

Assuming Harkon would hide and not do something dumb, like rolling up and announcing his victory to the world. Is just as far fetched as the world uniting against vampirekind. Oh and I also think the whole run going red is meant to mean it dims to a point where it doesn't harm the vampires, but can still sustain life.

I am a little surprised there wasn't any mention of a group or race or faction that had enough understanding or use of magic to take over Dwemer ruins. There's been hints in game that the Dwemer had Subterranean Farms, and Blackreach shows us that entire ecosystems can exist without the sun on Tamriel. So making use of that resource seems like something someone would think to do in a crisis like this.

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. It's amazing that this game has been out since 2011 (with Dawnguard coming out in 2012) yet it took until 2019 for a video speculating what would've happened had Harkon won. I was just looking for a video that explored just that and here it is. You're awesome!

Plot twist: Mortals begin to subsist off vampires. It’s not cannibalism.

Just doing dawnguard missions right now.