Obito's whole shtick was that he used Madara's name to fear hax opponents. Unles it's blin valley of the end Madara it shouldn't even be a discussion. And even then he's top tier character
The reason why he used madaras name was because he didn't have a name of that scale it was the easiest way to get the plan going and to start a war with four nations Obito of the hidden leaf his name did not carry the same weight even if his power did
If obito went by his own name then by the time of his death the next generation couldve used his name for power as well, obitos basically using madaras life long accomplishments to pick up where Madara left off because like bro above me said it would be overall faster for the plan. But that right there is also saying a lot because he was chosen by Madara to continue where he left. I don’t think anyone can just throw on a mask and be Madara let alone picked by Madara. So the get up was for the plan not really to exaggerate his existing power because he also earned the Madara title by various Shinobi Madara included
i dont agree with the comment on obito dodging tobirama, the reason is because madara didnt react because of the rinnegan, he reacted because of sage mode which obito doesnt have, the rinnegan wiuldnt give him any way to dodge otherwise nagato who was beating naruto and bee in speed whould have dodged itachi, additionally, there would be no need for the many eyes watching everything if they allow sensory like that, so i actually think the fight would have been harder for obito. i mean minato had a mark on obito but if he had that sensory he would have dodged it there too. so where most of the arguments are valid, i dont agree with that part.
@Virhtue so base to base you'll get no argument from me, madara wins, but the flying raijin is the bit that's faster imo, ftg is clearly fast enough to perception blitz even the rinnegan. But sage mode detects you before the attack arrives
@@Virhtue Sage mode does amp the speed of someone by a huge margin. Let's not forget Hashirama was going toe-to-toe with Madara for his entire life thanks to sage mode. And Madara STOLE Hashi's overpowered sage mode, which gave him enough to outspeed Tobirama, someone Madara himself claims was faster than himself back when they were both alive. If Madara says Tobirama was the fastest when alive and gets outmatched only because of the edo tensei nerf, I think it means tobirama is fast as shit.
Really like your presentation in videos because you actually know what you’re talking about and actually bring up stated feats and not just biased “madara slams because he’s him” rhetoric. Also would definitely like to see a analysis on kakashi v obito in kamui I feel like you could do it justice
13:30 bro Minato’s getting stomped horrendously 😂.His lack of power is what makes him KCM1 naruto level.He couldn’t pierce madara’s rib cage(Plus his durability is glass canon tier).Pretty sure you can interpret the KCM2 scene with kakashi as Naruto finally surpassing his father.
@@positivevibesonly146 He’d have to get off a crazy off guard.Any other situation madara can just coast in his rib cage, if a naruto’s giant rasingan couldn’t even pierce it Minato’s regular can’t.
Aye what's up V, this video is goated and I'm still in the process of watching it but I wanted to comment on a point you made during the "Madara VS Minato" section, starting at 3:05. So basically the original claim made is that Minato is significantly faster than Obito and was holding back during the fight. You addressed one of the most common counter arguments to this, which would be that Obito caught Minato's hand and reacted to him with Kamui, which would lead to the conclusion that Minato isn't a blitz tier above Obito and the reason for him landing the Rasengan would be due to having a higher BIQ or like a better strategy or whatever. The problem is that you presented another interpretation to this scene that could be considered just as likely to be true as the one being presented in the counter argument that you were currently addressing. While your interpretation is valid and is consistent with the rest of your argument, the fact that your original position relies on an interpretation that cannot be definitively proven/wasn't made more likely to be true would just make the entire argument that you're presenting to be unprovable as a result. Your reasoning about the "weaving a punch" part is good, but it works toward establishing the consistency and rhetoric of your interpretation despite the fact that it was already valid in the first place rather than actually raising the probability of the likelihood of your interpretation as a whole, which is required for your original position to be considered true. You'd have to establish why your interpretation would be more likely to be true (which would be very hard to do in this scenario imo) because leaving it up to an equal interpretation would just work in your opponent's favor since your argument would rely on an ambiguous outcome, which would make it unprovable like I said earlier. Alternatively, my counter to the interpretation that you're presenting would be that even if Minato is slowing down, it doesn't necessarily have to be by a significant amount, especially because he doesn't have much distance or time left to actually slow down in the first place, which is essential for a significant deceleration to occur. Once again, this would come down to another equal interpretation since neither of us would have any way of quantifying the deceleration in the first place. Your original argument requires Minato slow down by a significant amount in order to remain fast enough to basically perception blitz Obito, and as long as my interpretation remains equally likely, the original argument cannot be proven. I know that was alot, I'm really sorry for leaving an essay😭 This video was definitely well thought out but I just wanted to bring that stuff to your attention, we can always VC about this stuff sometime if you want. Anyways, congrats on 3K and keep up the good work homie!🥳
It would be accurately described as layering a separate interpretation off the similar grounds to either hold that at a high preponderance of evidence, or it would simply hold an equal interpretation to the initial which would of been fine aswell, as that would of been valid. Which just keeps the baseline at equal whereas mine has far more evidence to say he could have been holding back primarily in the subspace. Which adds credence to him doing it outside of the which aswell..❤️
@@Virhtue Well, the problem with the subspace argument is that it presupposes that movement within the subspace can be controlled and adjusted at will, which is very debatable and leaves many opportunities open to induce skepticism, but we can discuss that later since that's a whole other topic😂 Beyond that, every other piece of evidence used within the preponderance can undoubtedly be argued against or interpreted differently. Your best point to support your original position was definitely that Minato was fatigued due to having to hold down Kushina's seal, but you'd once again have to argue that he'd be a perception blitz-tier slower as a result in order to be consistent with your claim, which is also unprovable.
@@2_loko how is it debatable that movement within the subspace can or cant be controlled at will? We see Minato go from a forward motion to a downward motion when he hits Obito with the Rasengan. I think that is pretty clear evidence that we was able to reposition himself when coming out of FTG. that is a very drastic change in motion. or am i misunderstanding what youre saying? i think other examples would be Minato going from standing still to teleporting to the kunai in the tree to avoid Ay which would have Minato going from standing up straight vertically to instantly being horizontal on a tree with his back towards the ground - to teleporting to the kunai he tossed in the air and being right behind Ay in an attacking position. So when do you think hes moving himself around?
@@DrippUP Sure, it’s possible that FTG users can change the angle of their body at which they spawn from after activating the jutsu. I actually totally agree with this interpretation, but it doesn’t indicate that actual movement happens within the subspace itself. Even if I were to steelman the arguments presented and go along with the interpretation that there IS movement within the subspace, it would be borderline impossible for you or anyone else to demonstrate that the movement can be sped up or slowed down at will and that if differs between users. That’s why I said this argument relies upon an unprovable possibility, which makes the argument itself unprovable by extension.
The Tobirama disrespect is crazy these days. Madara saying he used to boast the fastest speed in response to Tobirana's speed blitz attempt was to highlight that he used to be the fastest shinibi in their era and that that speed was the one thing that would've made him a threat back then. Seeing as he voiced disdain for Tobirama's tactics, and never seemed to have any level of friendship with him, he wouldn't have any reason to go giving him fake compliments. His point was that Tobirama's superior speed would've been a problem for him back in the day, but that wth his upgrades in the time since, Tobirama poses no threat as Madara now clearly has the advantage in both power and now speed.
@@VirhtueWell your argument is really just weird head canon.Like you wouldn’t actually go to kishimoto and assume the “last time he saw tobirama’s speed it was the FTG against his brother” was what he meant when writing the statement.Tobirama’s highlight of minato’s speed is showing hes the former fastest.Tobirama and hashirama getting the statement of the strongest warriors is a highlight of madara being serious.Madara claiming his speed was this best AFTER having a fight with him and noting the nerf means he was the fastest.Madara’s alive and stronger then the past so his perception would be at its best for this claim.
The Senju and Uchiha fought many battles before and after Izunas death. And Madara was alive for Tobiramas entire stint as Hokage. It’s disingenuous at best to think he never saw Tobirama’s combat speed. It’s blatantly stated and shown so idk why people have such a hard time accepting that Tobirama was just faster than hashirama and madara but that they’re still stronger than him due to other stats and techniques. This is in no way contradicted, and in fact, is supported time and time again with feats. Situations like this are very common in fiction and real life. Being faster than someone does not mean you are on their level overall…
I’m of the interpretation that Tobirama only boasts the fastest speed BECAUSE of FTG. Like madara and hashirama isn’t faster than teleporting, but when base hashirama and tobirama are running to a battle field their practically the same, but EMS madara and sage hashirama would be faster running and fighting
I mean I always assumed that Tobirama was faster due to flying raijin. Madara and Izuna were equal in strength and Tobirama killed him I feel like people overlook that so without ems then Madara is getting cooked by Tobirama
@@spit-fire I could get with that theory if Madara didn’t say Tobirama USED to boast the fastest speed. FTG is stated to be instant and ignore space and time on multiple occasions and shown to allow them to travel insane distances in the blink of an eye so there’s no way Madara surpasses FTG even in travel speed let alone combat speed. Also I know you didn’t say this but just to be clear… they are two combatants engaging in combat so idk why he’d be commenting on Tobiramas ability to win a foot race, I think it would be ratting to say he didn’t mean combat speed. As far as getting to the battlefield those … I don’t know why there’s really any discussion around this, they all used body flicker which is travel speed. If minato and Tobirama used FTG they would have gotten there at the same time and wayyyyyy before the other 2 Kage. If y’all really think old edo Hiruzen is as fast as Tobiramas FTG then y’all got problems.
How did the FTG seal got onto unstable jubito, even tho unstable, was still able to blitz kcm naruto & sauske?? The world may never know?? Maybe tobirama threw it on him 😂 ????
Obitobshould have gotten insanely stronger & faster 16 yrs after he fought madara. He had the best abilities any villain could ask for. But kishimooto was inconsistent with him.
"You're the only one that is an even match for me" from Madara obviously means in all together thier total strength is in the same league or close, that statement says nothing about speed of Madara or Hashirama specifically, just overall battle strength and you were talking about Tobirama's speed specifically. Also, people seem to completely forget that he litterally brought the entire Kyuubi to fight against Hashirama too... Hashirama didn't have a Bijuu. Really Hashirama could have ended the fight quickly just using ninjutsu, he never had to engage him in taijutsu but his pride seemed to say otherwise, and the fight would have been boring lol, regardless Great Video! Oops, editing the comment undid your 💗you put on the comment, my bad lol
Obito was 14 when he fought Minato. Edo Madara is stronger than alive. How would Madara fare better than Obito against Konan since he doesn't have Kamui? He'd do much, much worse. All the high speed and surprise attacks must be dodged now, at an exhausting pace.
i believe that the boasting speed part refers to the fact that they would have fought together, after joining together and becoming the hidden leaf, there were still battles they would have fought in.
I don't like some of the Madara scaling. He's literally superior to Obito in every way that's why he saved him. Madara let multiple attacks hit because he was edo not because he couldn't react.
Madara would just fuse his perfect susanoo with kurama during his fight against Minato. Sure Minato can teleport but Madara would just level the leaf in that form lol I'd say Madara takes it decisively
Obito was closer to thirteen against Minato, not seventeen. If Obito planned on Minato catching Naruto he could have just slowed down enough to let Minato catch him. If he actually killed Naruto he might not be able to split up Kushina and Minato. The Hiraishin is elsewhere compared to the principles of the Summoning Technique, which is always just described as teleportation. Sasuke also surpasses Minato, so the Sha no Sho statement is not exactly absolute. Madara could have seen Tobirama fight after the village was formed given he also had to have seen the development of the Edo Tensei since he knows its seals. Kabuto and other sources suggest Edo Tensei Madara might be stronger than he was in the Final Valley. Hashirama's statement and Jin no Sho's assertion of a perfectly fleshy body could be taken with the understanding he is reviving into an even stronger body, one that has both his living self and Hashirama cells, which he did not have in life. If Obito is relative to that, he might be greater than Hashirama. Madara's Izanagi might have been enhanced after he consumed Hashirama's flesh, compared to a neutral position without it. He also already had it programmed in advanced which he would not have against Konan. Regular Izanagi might work, though. Even then, Obito likely has a superior Izanagi considering he has much more Hashirama cells than Madara did at that point. Kamui likely cannot be used whilst within the Kamui dimension itself, at which point Madara could just crush Kakashi with his Susanoo. Some version of Madara against Kurama Sage Mode Naruto and Sasuke was missing.
No he wasn’t you only get this estimate if Kakashi and Obito are the same age which they aren’t Kakashi is a few years older and the fourth databook notes as much meaning that Kakashi was 14 during the kyuubi attack so Obito was 17
@@Virhtue Obito is stated to be thirteen when he died (Tō no Sho). He died when Kakashi became a jōnin. Kakashi became a jōnin during the battle. The battle was about thirteen years before Part I.* Kakashi is 26-27 during Part I. Give or take a year, this would make him about twelve when he was promoted. This lines up with Iwabe stating he was jōnin at twelve in the Boruto anime. This would make him about the same age as Obito, which lines up with Jin no Sho placing them as such. * 神無毘橋の戦い●約十三年前、第三次忍界大戦時に起こった局 ページさんしょう 地戦。 Battle of Kannabi Bridge ● A ground battle that occurred about thirteen years ago during the Third Shinobi World War. Tō no Sho.
No cap I’ve sussed you out now and there’s no way you’ve been this accurate with topics this plain sight level of ingenious for so long! Drop the link to the think tank and all is forgiven 💯 lol but on a serious note imma go ahead and drop this pre watch comment and like the video and bring something actually related when I’m done 😂. Like I said it’s always great to see the Goat drop especially when you jumped on YT specifically to look for a new video.
that minato vs madara section could've been a video in its own right, its super interesting comparing them (when both where alive the first time) given what we know and 7/10 times for madara is I think pretty fair to both madara and minato.
@@genovayork2468 No way. Lee was amped by Kuramas chakra and had the 5th gate open while Madara was locked in place because of being attached to the 10 tails. Of course Madara would get hit. In a normal fight. Madara would just activate the perfect susanoo and stomp Lee. Still impressive from Lee though. It’s a very good feat.
@@genovayork2468 No he was locked. Look at the panel. He’s still attached to the ten tails. Rock Lee can’t open the seventh gate anyway. There is also no evidence of the 6th gate being strong enough to overpower a susanoo. Alive Madara is relative to Hashirama by the way. He’s barely weaker according to the databooks. Rock Lee simply doesn’t have the scaling or feats to match up to Madara.
What if Kakashi and Kabuto swapped fights? - They were compared a lot in part one, but take radically different paths in part 2 so definetly interesting IMO
Yes Minato has perfected the flying thunder god, he is much better at it than tobirama, but tobirama has faster combat speed than minato, per exemple one of tobirama's clones ( when a clone uses flying raijin, he is much slower than the original) took the truth seeking ball before minato could even react, also tobirama fared much better than minato in the war. Minato is faster in terms of A to B not in combat speed of reflexes. Also the madara that tobirama fouth and yes got destroyes is said to be equal or stronger than ten tails obito, so tobirama can have an exchange of blows with a ten tail obito level figher while minato was getting absolutly destroyed by obito. This just shows the power difference beetwen madara and minato.
Oh brother, no that clone used Body Flicker, which base Minato is faster at, and KCM Minato was moving, his facial changes stop when Tobirama arrives and his arm goes down
@@Virhtue Besides, Minato wasn’t mentally prepared after finding out that Obito was the one behind the Kurama attack on Konoha, which prevented Minato from battling properly. Minato’s combat speed was one of the best since Tobirama once mentioned that Minato’s striking speed was good as well, and not only teleportation. Honestly, Kishimoto kinda made Minato weaker in the War just to show how powerful Obito and Madara were in Ten Tails Mode.
everytime tobirama tries to blitz obito and goes behind him, obito notices him and just simply dose not give a f about him, if u rewatch you can see it, his testing out his ninjutsu nullification, and as he planed none of their attack even scratched him, for even more proof when tobirama uses flying rajin with naruto obito tried to use kamui but couldn't because of the tentails inside him, after that obito turns those flames things on his back, and tobirama simply states that if they teleport behind him recklessly they might get erased. im not saying tobirama is weak or slow he is one of the smartest ninja but also flawed as well, i really like him but i dont go around making shit up.
Virhtue please for the love of God stop the mental gymnastics on that "boasted fastest shinobi" statement. You need to read the ENTIRE statement Madara makes towards Tobirama, analyze it as a whole and use common sense. The entire statement reads as follows when simplified: "Fortune is on my side. You used to be proud of being the fastest. You and your bother are nerfed. I have the edge now." PAINFULLY obvious what it's implying. Don't want to be harsh but it's 2024 for crying out loud.
I did I analyzed the full context you offered nothing. I gave three seperate avenues of interpretation backed on each front to demonstrate a lack of evidence for the interpretation you want, you gave nothing. You just typed out a non official translation, prolly a ChatGPT one😭 so agreed, there isn’t a mean to be harsh but sit down and analyze your own argument before you come to spit that bs here.
@@Virhtue I didn't translate the statement Virtue, I literally just simplified it down for you to understand 😭 "The heavens are smiling upon me" means he's lucky/fortunate "Look at you, who boasted the fastest speed of any shinobi" means Tobirama used to be proud of being the fastest "There's a reason why you two brothers can't regain your full power" Tobirama and Hashirama are nerfed "Whether coincidence or inevitable, I've got the edge now" connecting back to fortune favoring him, he has the edge now
@@ActuallyAlask boasting also means having/possessing something it's not necessarily bragging and in this scenario it's consistent based on fact that he killed Izuna and even as an edo reacted to rinnegan Madara
@@ActuallyAlaskI don’t see why that contradicts what Vurtue is saying ? “You boasted the fastest speed” = Tobirama with FTG boasts/possesses the fastest speed, thanks to FTG. madara says it right after tobirama uses FTG on him. And says how it’s his MO to attack when the opponent is sure of victory. Kinda like when tobirama used FTG on madaras brother. FTG doesn’t work, so madara comments how tobirama is nerfed, as trash talk. And says how he’s been wanting to do this for a long time. Because of his brother’s death. So it makes sense to me madara is talking about tobirama boasting the fastest speed thanks to FTG. That’s why he uses the word boast. Like he can say he is faster because of FTG. it makes more sense madara would rival sage hashirama in actual speed, just like Naruto and sasuke.
@@spit-fire Madara was lucky that Tobirama's speed was nerfed by edo tensei, it gave Madara the edge. So normally Tobirama would have the edge, and Madara would lose in a battle of speed. I agree that FTG is largely why he's faster. But a teleporting turtle wouldn't be the fastest, nor would be a threat. You have to use physical speed before and after teleporting & reaction speed to keep up.
Madara who saw Tobirama fight multiple times, including definitely after the Izuna fight says “wow you used to be the fastest now look at you” You: “nah he meant he was the fastest that one time but not actually” It’s so disingenuous
@@Virhtue the next panel after he says Tobirama used to boast the title of fastest shinobi, is Madara saying he has the edge right now because Tobirama and hashi can’t regain their full power. Madara who is watching these crazy Tobirama speed feats says Tobirama isn’t at full power. And then says he has the edge right now, because they aren’t at full power. Sage mode Rinnegan Madara >> EMS Madara and Tobirama is able to react to sage madara’s attack. If you’re not being disingenuous it’s blatant downplay.
Obito would still be slower than Hashirama, remember his Kamui only has a 5 minute timer. Edo Madara is weaker than EMS and there are implications that Obito was somewhat weaker than Edo Madara. Hashirama is a stamina beast, Obito will for sure run out of chakra before Hashirama does since the Rinnegan is taking alot of chakra to use. Hashirama has insane healing too, even greater than 100 Heals so Obito would need to constantly attack but in doing so will cause him to be vulnerable to any of Hashirama's attacks. Sage Hashirama definitely is going to blitz because we already seen Hashirama and EMS Madara fight relatively.
I think I heard you say KCM2 was able to “blitz” Revived Madara?? I don’t quite agree with that statement. Yes, Madara was smacked around by the Bijuu, but he stated right after the fact that he possessing Hashirama’s healing-abilities cause for him to fight with less-caution, and this is evident, because he sort of just runs straight towards the Bijuu, disregarding any jutsu they might throw at him, taunt them for their jutsu not being strong enough, and even laughs at the fact that he’s getting a blast from being punched around… But he dodges attacks from EMS Sasuke, who could be on that Hokage Minato tier of speed, since he was perception blitzing Dazed-KCM Minato, the Daze should be a whole KCM-level nerf. And when EMS Sasuke was fighting against Juubito, Orochimaru and Tobirama, we’re having some inner-dialogues about Sasuke’s potential to surpass Madara. Now, in Tobirama’s case, this could potentially be referring to EMS Madara, I don’t quite follow up with that, since he wasn’t there during the Final Valley battle, but he had gaged the strength of like pre-final valley Madara, which Edo Madara could be relative to… and everyone on the battle field, including Orochimaru had an idea of how strong Edo Madara was, since he was the version of Madara on the battlefield at that time… I think that’s a good way to scale Edo Madara above/relative to Bijuu Sage Mode or EMS Sasuke. . . Either way, it would put Edo Madara above Hokage Minato, then Revived Madara, and by extension EMS Madara… (In combat and perception speed) I think Minato needs KCM to contest any version of Madara tbh.
I can see where your coming from but I personally think he can just not in the conventional way and mainly relying on his hax as his base speed isn't what made him known as the yellow flash it was his reaction speed and ftg he also has some of the strongest sealing jitsu in the series and has statements that can be used to get his power on Madara and hashirama lvl based on the one shot though won't be using them but seeing as how he should scale to kcm1 in AP his attack potency should more than be enough to damage Madara and with his ability to teleport Madara him or any of their attacks though that is much harder he can definitely pull of a win but not easy
@@Nathan24634 I don’t see Minato’s attacks doing much damage to Madara, considering that Edo Madara was tanking a massive-rasenshuriken from Sage Mode Naruto in the War Arc, and then he just scales to Hashirama in AP(To an extent). It’s hard to give a direct marking on where Madara or Hashirama scale, since they mostly scale off of each other… But yeah… Stat wise, as I said before Madara should-scale above Minato in Combat-Speed, Taijutsu, AP, and Durability… But you do have a point. Minato might be able to blitz Madara with FTG, or some Shadow-Clone trick of some sort… This is without mentioning Madara’s genjutsu(That he hardly ever uses in-character) but still a factor… and his stamina. Idk how he’d pull it off. But any version of Madara wins against Hokage Minato 8-9/10 times, with Mid Difficulty in my opinion… I’m curious to see what Minato would’ve done against the Majestic Attire Susano. Hashirama just overpowered it, but Minato’s one of the smartest fighters in the series…Just a thought. It’s a shame that Minato never learned to properly maintain Sage Mode, a Bijuu Sage Mode Minato would be badass.
@@trell_a since he likely would have a marking on Madara he would use ftg to get inside of it and then use a sealing jitsu to release the 9 tails from madaras control
Kakashi needed to stab him in the heart therefore obito couldn’t just throttle him. He also could have taken the biju chakra cause that would have healed the wound obito put on him.
I think Madara (EMS) vs Minato (Alive/Hokage) is extreme diff but given the situation of Minato trying to protect the village he loses that like we literally saw the scale of Madara's Susano Tailed Beast Bombs. But 1v1 situation no Kurma, no Village I think Minato wins, him after using as u said 7-8 Flying Raijins, Flying Raijin Guiding Thunder and a Rasengan still had enough Chakra to seal Kurma without reaper death seal. I don't know if he can seal the Susano since it's a Chakra avatar similar to Kurma but if he can then Minato high diff, I know you said his Rasengan wouldn't do that much damage but I think it would still do damage as Sasuke's Sword goes straight through Madara causing him to bleed. Minato is faster than Madara in my opinion but not by much, but we see how Tobirama was reacting to Madara in Minato would be better so if he can seal the Susano, Minato high diff but if not I still got him extreme diff. Madara is just not hitting Minato with the Susano, he would just be waisting Chakra so he would likely leave it to go into close quarter combat where I think Minato would win but maybe I'm bugging W video regardless.
Yea and got clapped up in. 3 moves without even landing 1 hit on Minato , fight was less than 1 minute & obito loss his arm , control on kurama & is marked for life by the flying riajin seal. Minato treated him frfr
@@GeneFOX70 not saying its not true im just saying theres much more to go off of that was equally as impressive like overcoming a country level six paths attack while at an elemental disadvantage
@Virhtue what I suggest is doing a what if boruto took all of Naruto major fights but with a twist. Have it so that boruto is as strong as Naruto at those moments. Point is to find out who is an overall better fighter. Example would time skip boruto have beaten pain being as strong as sage Naruto etc.
Nahhh all my favorite yt people dropping vids today 😂but off topic tho wouldn’t edo madara be weaker than his alive self because not only was he brought back in his prime body…he has hashi cells and a rinnegan which he didn’t have when he was younger though Obito was a mix of senju and Uchiha dna the moment Madara saved him… senju+ Uchiha dna = SO6P power which I believe is also why Obito didn’t go blind and it amped his MS as he could use MS abilities with is base 3 tomoe…I’m not saying Obito is stronger than Madara because Madara just always has some weird shii going on with him but Obito is most definitely relative to him hell SO6P Madara with god powers let Obito walk up to him and kamui his hand through his chest and Madara couldn’t even process that but then he survives his heart getting palmed by Obito which defies Naruto logic because your insides can’t get stronger meaning you could one tap him by ripping his heart out but then again it’s Madara lol he always has something strange going on with him😂🤷♂️but the way you explained the minato section and his FTG was top tier 💯 most people don’t understand what fully goes into that ability
Dude Minato was not faster than Obito you cant really prove he was gassed and if you think Minato thought obito was slow based on him getting “blitzed” by obito he would move faster to get that easy kill.
In ma opinion i think madara would low-mid diff and win 10/10 times i dont think rasegan going cut it cuz if obito survive it thn madara would 2 like evn he caught offgaurd i feel like he would survive and plus if we his biq he can pull mad tricks like whn use subtustion with clone to pump of underground 2 stab tsunade and i only mid dif at most cuz his flyin rajin is mad tricky and in their edo version he still win since he solo kcm2 naruto which kcm minato is realtive but still mid dif but he possibly win
Uh bruh the series would’ve ended at Kyuubi attack lmao Madara still got a perfect Susanoo and can still wrap Kurama in it. And unlike obito, Madara can keep up with Minato’s speed, Minato is not winning that fight. Naruto won’t have Kurama but he would have a family due to the fact that Hiruzen has no reason to decline Mikoto’s adoption request this time of course this is assuming that Madara doesn’t just flat out destroy the village. The reason Minato says that sage mode isn’t his forte is because he has trouble regulating it due to the fact his chakra reserves are too small which is why he was able to use it easily when he got KCM
I disagree. Minato is all about speed. Even though he did insanely quick, Minato stil ltook time to gather nature energy. To Minato, that would be slow. He also unlike Hashirama never showed a way to gather nature energy while in motion. Minato had as much chakra as half of Kurama after defending the leaf all night. His chakra pool is massive.
Prove Minato is faster when his feats are worse than Tobirama. Also Madara wouldn't say he is blessed for Torbirama being nerfed. While I do believe Madara kills Konan via speed diff , but if he get caught up in the bombs he is good as dead. @virhtue
I already proved the first one. Via virtue of a direct link of Minato being faster than Tobirama in a point blank subspace he would just scale above all of Tobirama’s feats which is consistent as not one places him above Hokage Minato
