Mao and his forces defeated the Nationalists in the 40s. The implications were vast for the world. But how much would China itself have really changed? Here's one scenario. Twitter: / althistoryhub #HongKong
So yeah. Rome Part III is dead. Here's why. I worked on the damn idea for three months, but sometimes these things are just dead ends. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-3unEvQ3uKrM.html
I'm the guy who suggested if Brennus Sacked Rome, I've got more Alt history ideas for you. What if the Mongols discovered America by going through Russia into Alaska? What if the Rurikids stayed true to Rurik's original goal and never adopted Slavic culture and religion instead trying to Germanify the region and establish an Eastern Norse realm? What if the British Celts defeated the Anglo Saxons? What if Atilla the Hun didn't die early?
I’m about to end these Chinese people on this video 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution
@@honkamania1174I can't say for younger generations, but I grew up in the 90s and I know all of these fairly well before I went to California for uni. These things are regulated in China in the same way as porns: officially taboo to talk about on the table, but everyone knows and have their own opinions about them.
Yeah because the commies lucked out with japan conducting one of the largest offensives in the Second World War that absolutely shattered nationalist China
@@obijuanquenobi1911 it’s not even the invasion in general although that helped, what I referenced was Japan’s Operation Ichigo (‘First’? Something like that), I point you to Military History Not Visualized’s video on it (search Japans Largest Offensive in WW2 that you’ve never heard of), basically Japan having lost a significant amount of both its military and merchant navy wanted a land route to their holdings in indochina for their resources, of course theres this big China thing in the way, so what did they do? They fucking killed it, absolutely obliterated the nationalist army, the IJA must’ve stepped on a Lego just then because they wasn’t happy, that’s probably the moment the nationalists lost all hope of defeating the commies (that and the whole Manchuria thing), because they had no one left to fight with (essentially)
the shame is if sun yat sen was alive for a little longer, he'd probably be forced to pick a side despite being the one thing that tied the ccp and kmt together in one party and becomes less of a heralded figure today. Ill still hang the five color flag though
@@bjack8315 Chiang built up his own cult of personality on Taiwan (which was forced on the natives), in spite of the claims that he supposedly hated cults of personality.
One thing to add: The Kuomintang was NOTORIOUSLY corrupt. That's largely the reason the communits were able to gather a foothold among the people in the first place. There's no reason to think that a Kuomintang victorious over the communists would be any different. Perhaps, fearing another uprising, they'd add even more brutality to that corruption. I think that really affects the outcome of this sort of timeline.
@@richardlew3667 ever wondered why these prosperous east asian countries are really only that small? Really can't assume that what works in these countries can be replicated in the mainland
My great-grandfathers were NRA soldiers who fought for the Nationalists. They fought in the civil war. Great-grandpa on mom’s side, a stretcher-bearer, was at Jinan, the first of the “three great battles”. The commander of the outer defense, Wu Huawen, defected to the communists with 20,000 men. Great Grandpa broke out of the encirclement with his platoon leader and some others and vanished in the night. When Chiang Kai Shek escaped to Taiwan, my grandpa’s name wasn’t on the roster.
An important aspect that was overlooked here is that Mao had already begun to destroy the feudal structures during the civil war. This approach secured him the support of the rural population. At that time, 90% of the population were tenant farmers who worked on the lands of a few but enormously wealthy large landowners. Many farmers lived in debt slavery for generations. The Kuomintang, on the other hand, was financially dependent on this powerful gentry. However, the abolition of feudal structures is an important prerequisite for an industrialization process. It is questionable whether the Kuomintang could implement such a complex reform (it is actually a transformation) in such a large country. It is more likely that the gentry would have tried by all means to maintain their power and privileges. Under these conditions, civil wars and the country could be divided up again among local warlords. One must also not forget that the Soviet Union was always interested in weakening China and would certainly have interfered in the internal conflicts. The country would not have settled down for a long time and modernization would certainly not have started sooner
and this is why ccp always boast that they had the favour of 'the majority' back then and thus they won peasants were indeed the majority of the population in china, and kmt didn't leave an exactly good impression on them
Fun fact: the MLK Memorial in Washington D.C. at 7:46 was actually designed by a Chinese sculptor Lei Yixin, who had also designed some of Mao's statues
@Freedom AGS "racism" is only bad when its White Europeans looking out for the future of their race, nation, kids, society, morals, values, etc... everyone else its ok for them to show in group preference.
I wouldn’t be so sure about the "at least there wouldn’t have been a famine" part… Mao’s famine is so infamous that people forget the Republic of China also had several famines with millions of deaths. Without massive foreign help, another famine after the war would have been hard to avoid, communism or not.
Mao’s famine is manmade, totally avoidable. Any leader with a functioning brain would not keep exporting large amount of food to other nation when they are having a famine.
@@VMVXMK2 Stalin did. So did Ireland under British rule. I suspect that you're right, the famine wouldn't have happened, but sadly it's not inconceivable.
the thing is, with kmt in power and anti-soviet, the west would give China massive foreign aids just to keep them that way, similar to how America give Kiang shit ton of stuff to keep them fight mao
@@VMVXMK2 The nationalist part is known for great corruption and instability within government, part of the main reason why the people of China turned on them, so government corruption causing an uneven distribution of resources is not too big a stretch
if the KMT lost one or even ten cities, we can say it was bad luck, but when they lost the whole China, I would say from the probability perspective, it had nothing to do with luck
I'd you mean during the war with Japan it isn't that unexpected. China had decades of Civil War, the KMT army had a few tens of thousands of good quality troops and hundreds of thousands of absolute garbage troops. Compared to Japan with an efficient mobilization of millions of conscripts.
It's not like China had the time to prepare for war or to industrialize. After decades of Civil War and the warlord Era, all China could really do against an industrial and war ready Japan was throw corpses at them. And, to their credit, the KMT never surrendered to the Japanese even after losing their capital and their most important territories.
Well he ain't wrong. Russia is a 'democracy', they do have a 'divine' leader that somehow maintained a 90% approval rating for decades, and definitely without manipulation of any sort on the voting population. DEMOCRACY amirite
I actually have a personal connection to this "What If". My grandfather was actually a Nationalist Colonel during the Chinese Civil War and World War II. If this "What If" happened, my grandfather would have become a General by the 80s. In our timeline, all commissioned Nationalist officers who fled to Taiwan were eventually promoted to General for their war efforts. Sadly, my grandfather fled to Vietnam instead and died there. In this "What If", my grandfather would have remained in China and become a General there and would have lived a much better life there. Speaking of Vietnam, my grandfather would never have found the need to flee to Vietnam after the Chinese Civil War, and instead he would have raised his family in China. That would also mean that I would be born in China instead of Canada: with no Vietnam War to worry about, my family would have found no need to flee the continent and therefore would not have immigrated to Canada. I would never have become a Canadian and I would likely have never known a life in the Western world. It really puts into perspective how world events can change one's life. I really appreciate this "What If": excellently done.
It is just life, nothing you can do about it! Be honest, had you grandpa remained in China, you are probably one of the elites now,. However, reality is your grandpa made decision to leave.
@@eggheadegghead I agree. Interestingly though, I'm actually happy my grandpa made the decision to leave. He would have been executed by the Communists, and I wouldn't have existed. Plus, I'm pretty satisfied with my life in Canada and wouldn't really want it to change any other way. Living as a part of the elite sounds great, but if I lived the life of an elite in China or in any other country (including Canada), I wouldn't have had the same opportunities to grow and develop as I do now.
One interesting point in this alternative timeline is the Nationalist government claim to (Outer) Mongolia as well as the Paracel and Spratly Islands. Nationalist China did invent the infamous Nine Dash Line.
I think that the authoritarianism would die out around the same time as Taiwan if not sooner. In Sun’s later years he became increasingly pessimistic and so changed the KMT’s goals. The idea was that China wasn’t ready for democracy, at least not yet so a temporary one party dictatorship would be established while the people were educated on how democracy works. Then gradually, opposition parties would be allowed into the government, and finally Democratization. The KMT was authoritarian because that was part of the plan. I would argue that the reason Chiang stayed around so long is because they lost the civil war. It threw a wrench into everything. At that point, they just needed to survive. Democracy isn’t really a priority when your only objective is survival.
I mean rechnically china is democratic. Does having multiple parties really mean one is democratic? Since we are talking china lets use a party memeber. I remember one saying "constitutional governance asserts that power lies in the people, and implements a parliamentary democratic political system. But the real operation of parliamentary democracies is completely grasped in the hands of the bourgeoisie." Members of parliament (or officials in general) are able to contest elections (and win them) only with the support of the bourgeoisie." In essence under liberal democracies you have multiple parties that are bought and funded by capitalists. When popular policy goes against big buisness interests they are shot down. Housing, food, price stabilizations, wage increases all things that are presented in china. From 1970s to now chinese wages rose up drastically. Compared to the usa it has stagnated. China has eliminated abject poverty(its still poor as its a 3rd world country). And it has low hunger rate for a 3rd world country. ranging from 2 percent and 9 percent. While the usa has like 15 percent. China has a 90 percent homeownership rate due to maos land reform. These are things that our democracy yhave failed because parties are owned by corporations. Secondly we can say china undemocratic but its more similar to usa democracy. its a republic. People vote in local lower level politicians who then vote and appoint people in power. So they dont vote in presidents directly but they do vote. Its kinda like how we do it with our supreme justice. Which is kinda undemocratic but i dont think anyone would consider the usa not a democracy. All laws are not voted in by us but by politicians we elect. They either say yes or abstain. And in china unlike the usa they can recall their congress members while we cannot. So in ways its democratic and in others it isnt. Lastly i think mao won because he really did have the pesants on his side. What did he do when he got power? Education, healthcare, He got pesants to kill their landlords and take control over their own land. Got rid of cultural backwardness like banditry and sex slavery and foot binding. It was a feudal society and mao for all of his atrocities was better than the kmt. Im haitian and we all like Jean Jacques Dessalines because he got rid of slavery even if he was an emperor.
@@sungod1384 the democratic part really depends on who you are asking Asking USA? China dictatorship (idk the exact reason but I guess it’s one party state and party power>country power and people really don’t matter in votes) Asking China? China democratic (and USA would be a money-controlled state which is actually not democratic in their eyes) (and Chairmans like Xi Jinping are just „representatives“ of the interests of the people) But you are right, it does have some similarity with the democracy like the us, just that Chinese votes are actually by starting in a random neighborhood and then going 1 stage up until all province representatives vote for one chairman
Then maybe something would actually have happened on the 4th June 1989 in Tiananmen Square, since we know nothing happened in Super Happy Fun Time Square under Communist rule.
The man with the groceries just wanted to ask the nice man who was leading the parade which way was the nearest supermarket, and he was so friendly to tell him. What a great and helpful man that tank driver, who is part of the Communist Party of China, was. :)
Mao: Strength: 1 Perception: 1 Endurance: 2 Charisma: 10 Intelligence: 1 Agility: 1 Luck: 10000000000 1 Month Later: People still start arguments over a joke. Society has gone too soft for comedy.
Brad Hill Rich capitalist: Strength:1 Perception:1 Endurance:1 Charisma:1 Intelligence:1 Agility:1 Luck:1 Ability to steal the fruits of workers labour: 1000000000000
Video Idea: What if Napoleon wasn’t stopped at Waterloo? What if Napoleon won Waterloo? What would he have done when he won? Napoleon is my favorite historical character so I just really need to know. Thank you!
I know this isn't the answer you were looking for, but if he won at Waterloo he'd just have to fight again on another battle which he would lose. France at the end of the Napoleonic wars was just weak and tired. Remember Napoleon was NOT captured at Waterloo, he escaped. So why did he not raise another army and try again? France just wasn't up to it. The coalition was too much more powerful by then.
Then North Korea wouldn't exist anymore. Edit: Any newcomers to this hellhole of a reply section: Ignore the guy with the symbols as his username. It'll help your mental stability.
shuai pan filthy American intervention? You act like North Korea wasn’t being totally propped up by the Soviets and Chinese. My apologies, but we weren’t just going to sit back while our allies got invaded by cultist dictators. We also had to think about the threat it posed to Japan if Korea totally fell.
@@EVOPE haha, your ally like banning export medical supplies to Canada? Learn this: Support a side in a foreign civil war is a tricky diplomatic thing, but direct intervention is totally another level of invasion. This is how international politics worked. If u are so lack of Korean history, let me tell u sth: General Kim of the north were fighting the Japanese for decades before the independence meanwhile Dr. Lee of the south were serving as a veteran in the Japanese government. Before the civil war Dr. Lee assassinated the previous south Koren nationalist leader Mr. Kim. The USA, supported a formal Japanese gov official who become the south leader by assassination. General Kim or Dr. Lee, who do u support if u were a hungry Korean civilian??? Learn more facts before talks, or looks like an illiterate guy.
shuai pan well we’re not going to support the guy who supports fighting the Japanese. Had the entire Korean Peninsula fell that could’ve served as a launch pad for the Soviets to spread Stalinism to Japan. Again, you’re acting like Kim wasn’t also being supported by foreign powers. Neither side in the Korean War was acting solely in the interests of the Korean people, or really acting in their interests at all. We just happened to back the side that wasn’t threatening us or our allies. Also, if you want to bring up leaders taking out rivals in order to assume power, then boy do I have quite the story on General Kim to sell you.
"If when I die, I am still a dictator, I will certainly go down into the oblivion of all dictators. If, on the other hand, I succeed in establishing a truly stable foundation for a democratic government, I will live forever in every home in China." *Chiang Kai-shek*
Another point of divergence that would likely result in a nationalist victory is to prevent the transfer of Manchuria to communist China. Maybe Japan was nukes earlier. Maybe the Soviets had a slightly worse time against Germany. But something happens that results in Manchuria not being occupied by the Soviets, and instead become a third power or neutral faction under the emperor. A huge part of the ensuing civil war post WW2 happened because of the intact industrial region of Manchuria, and it’s abundant steel resources. Nationalist China after WW2 had lost a lot of their industrial capacity due to the war and were severely lacking equipment. Equipment that the communist could now produce with the help of Manchu industry. Despite this, the nationalists still pushed quite far into Manchu before equipment caught up and they were beaten back. Without Manchu, there would still be no chance the communists could win the civil war.
Nationalists: **Defeat the PRC** We won. We have shown we are the true China! None are left standing against us! All the warlord states still sitting there: **Visible confusion.**
*CPC, it was still the CPC and PLA, not yet the PRC. Northern Expedition followed by Central Plains War would destroy all those warlord states save for those loyal to the KMT like Ma Bufang's Xinjiang. Goes down similar to our timeline.
@@Sr_Cozy Not possible at all... After WWII, the economy of the ROC has already heavily broken, apart from the beginning of the Civil War, the ROC government indeed need to force its citizens to go to battlefield to fight the CCP amry, that's also one of the reason why so many ROC soldiers surrender to the CCP during the war.
"If Nationalist China did rise, we'd see fewer of these state owned companies." Nationalist China: **Laughs in Russian Federation style nationalized industry**
You're absolutely correct. Republic of China would also use some elements of government-lead economy, but they wouldn't be granted this Communist-China bonus which they got by western countries in our timeline. They would have faced the same restrictions and measures which all capitalist nations face, caused by competition.
Russia only operates that way because they filled the power void of totalitarian communist culture with black market criminal underground mafia culture, which is a biproduct of regimes like the USSR. without Mao, Chinese denizens never have to live under the constant threat of being sent to the gulag for overdue library books or social credit systems that oust them from a livable society. No democracy doesn't mean no prosperity, contrary to Cody's video. Hans Herman Hoppe points out the aniquities of democracy to monarchy and even Jean Jacque Rousseau, himself only advocated for democracy on a small scale. Safe to say, China may have actually been better off than the west in a lot of ways and probably more avert to corporatism and crony capitalism like what purveyed in the west and what had brought China down to begin with with the arrival of corporatists from the UK, Portugal and the US
If China was no communist it would probably have a pretty serious border dispute with Russia/the Soviets. After the revolution, the Soviets helped china find it footing, part of the deal was defining the border between the two. It has not been disputed since, even the Sino Russian relationship turned sour.
China has its own system. The dictatorship and democracy that you are talking about are different. . . It is the only civilized system on the planet that has not been severed. Its text thousands of years ago can still be recognized.
nope it was still disputed en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict Imagine Chiang kaishek demanding all 1 million square km of qing land back
I don't think it would be a major issue, Cold War standoffs not withstanding. Stalin actually wanted the KMT to stay in power right up until 1949 because he didn't support Maoism (which we later saw firsthand in the Sino-Soviet split).
Agree with your overall assessment. I think one important piece is it swaps one super power bff with another. Historically, Communist China broke their alliance with USSR minimise the target on her back. Nationalist China had good relations with both USSR and the US, however it would be at risk of becoming a battle ground with the onset of cold war. How China maneuvers between the super powers will define its security and potentially political system.
The Tokugawa Shogunate is on the same boat with the Meiji Reformation: improving Japan's survival rate in this mad colonialism dash. In fact Japan's first industrialization and westernization efforts were made by the Shogunate. The only difference between them is HOW they approach the question of Westernization...
Japan would just become a republic. They would only get rid of the emperor or reduce the emperor power. So in a way, if the shogunate won, they would be the same as what happens when the atomic bomb drop on nagasaki. Which is the present day Japan. When Japan lost the war the emperor lost most of his power and people stop calling him god. Yes, during WW2 Japanese consider their emperor as god.
0:17 "The 20th century probably changed no country more than China." UK: gains 1/4 for the world also UK: looses 1/4 of the world in less than 50 years
@Αγαπη Laird thanks to it's empire Britain won the world wars due to having a massive manpower, strategic, and resource advantage English is the lingra franca for international relations And they still have massive influence over fromer colonies, "only reason anyone buys British guns"
China under the KMT would look like more like today's Russia, a "democracy" with market economy aspects, in summary an authoritarian mixed economy. Don't take for given that what happened to Taiwan would happen in mainland China, it is one thing to manage and organize an island, it is another to do the same in the complex, populous and heterogeneous nation that China is.
@@RealNotOrrio dude, you are one whole democracy ? joke aside, taiwan only adopt american-style democracy & political transparency out of convenience at best a nationalist china would become like south korea or japan - it has democracy & political transparency on the surface, but ultimately a dominant party state with a bureaucracy that nobody knows how messed up it is under the surface (mainly because journalists choosing silence by themselves to avoid hassle) for example, a south korean president was found to be controlled by a cult
I Think My Dog Is a Cat Then you would witness the first total nuclear war in history. Most nuclear shelters in nowadays China are built in those years. One nuclear shelter near my university is now a musical equipment store for underground bands.
@giwrgos kalaitzantwnakis Oh wow, an expert in the chat. He did an episode on what if the snap occurred. That’s not realistic. Also, the Chinese believed that China must control the world and that the Soviets weren’t true communists. This could result in wars in indo-china or an all out war. All I’m saying is that there are many scenarios that could be generated from this idea.
The Alternate history HOI4 mod TNO: The last days of Europe sees Mao and Chiang dying together in the battle of Chongqing against the Japanese. "I never thought I'd die fighting side by side with a communist..." "How about side by side with a Chinese man?" "Aye... I could do that..."
I had a grandpa who fought in this war, he surrendered and then was relocated on a farm for 2 years after he surrendered and my great grandpa, a Nationalist General just cut and run to another province and found a war buddy who joined the communists and became a province governor, who kept him low key and gave his kids an education.
@@therealman2016 ah he was okay he later married had 10 children and died at the age of 96 he was never imprisend or persucted as the government in 1924 a year after the war was over made a general ammrnsty. He did refuse the pension for veterans regardless of witch side they fought for.
matt there’s a reason why we’re not eating our own pets like Venezuela, or being murdered because of our own faith like the millions of Christians in China, or being persecuted in North Korea. We’re not perfect but I am sure anyone with a little common sense would love to live in America or any other capitalist country
Hoàng Nguyên yep you guys rock at kicking out foreign invasions since WWII ps great job in The Third Indochina War especially with beating the Chinese with their own weapons they gave you
@Hoàng Nguyên actually the north would have fell to a full scale American invasion but that didn't happen because we didn't want to provoke communist China by invading a communist country
"quoting random shit you find to sound cool and smart on the internet just results in a shitstorm comment war on politics and philosophy most of the time because no one is happy when someone else is trying to be a smartass on the internet" - abraham lincoln
@@D00000T lol, it’s an actual quote though, from the game series: “Wolfenstien” it ain’t random shit It’s also technically true though, compare it to energy, it can’t be created or destroyed, it just changes form. It’s like the clone war prequels when the C.I.S and the Republic both fall at the same due to Order 66. The “monster” was the C.I.S and the guy who was planning for the Rise and the Empire (forgot his name). It “changed form” when Order 66 was executed and he turned it into the empire.
Hey so just one thing I noticed, in our timeline when the USSR took manturia back from the jappanies they gave it to the comunests, in this time line would the USSR still give it back to the nationalist or keep it? (give it to North Korea, make it it’s own country or just make it part of Russia)
Even a lot movies about Vietnam War like Platoon, Full Metal Jacket or Apocalypse Now would never be made in this alternate timeline. A lot of the vets who fought in it likely would never fight in it.
Also, since I think that the Soviets would still invade Manchuria at the end of the Second World War, we could see a situation where the Soviets prop up a "People's Republic of Manchuria" to counterbalance against the now Nationalist China, along with being a buffer state like the Eastern Block.
SMD sth91 memes are simply jokes, they don’t harm anyone. The internet is used for many things and makes living more convenient. Removing would make the standard of living objectively worse for a lot of people. Smartphones don’t hurt anyone either, they’re simply a convenience item.
"Did the kuomintang lose the civil war? "No! "So why are they fleeing to Taiwan now?" "Why don't you ask why the communists fled to the China mainland instead?"
@Ishir Mehra Chiang didn't become the President until after Sun died. Before that he was mentored by Sun to be a future leader. Because of this I do not think it's fair to put Chiang in the same camp as Yuan Shikai; Chiang did still care about the Republic and he wanted to create a modern China as outlined by Sun, but unfortunate circumstances prevented him from ever fulfilling this.
@Ishir Mehra The Yellow River flood was a war time tactic to slow down the encroachment of the Japanese. It caused massive damage to infrastructure and killed many civilians yes, but it was justifiable in the historical context. Flooding has been used as a tactic by many Chinese generals in the past, so it's not like it's a new thing. I agree that Chiang made many mistakes during the Civil War that led to the Nationalist defeat, but some things were also out of his control (e.g. Japanese invasion, Xi'an incident, massive internal corruption, and US interventions to name a few). In my opinion, had Yuan not betrayed the Republic and fractured China, the Civil War would not have started in the first place.
@Ishir Mehra Chiang became a dictator because of his paranoia to Communism within his own party. Chiang initiated Martial Law in Taiwan for this reason. If the Nationalists won the Civil War, Chiang likely would've eventually relinquished power. This is pure speculation though, and neither you or I will ever know. That being said, a Communist regime does have a lot of differences to a Military Dictatorship. For one, the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution would never had happened, and China would not have closed off its economy for 30 years.
@@shockwave2291 Wrong, he became a dictator because it was necessary at the time, China was at war with Japan and the Communists. A dictator is necessarily needed in order to lead a nation to victory.
@Ishir Mehra Also, exterminating Communists was the right thing to do, they declared independence from China and had the goals to integrate China to a soviet puppet state. Manchukuo and other Japanese puppets did the same thing of dividing china.
If you have any evidence for the existence of social credit system, I would give you $100. Plz plz, as An Chinese, I would really love to know what the hell this is!
some nra soldiers put up a fierce fight (which is why the japanese were angry). Commander tang shengzhi fled and Chiang is a nightmare as a military commander (if you get orders from him, likely these orders will cause you to die. Many generals legit closed their radios to ignore Chiang's military orders).
that's why the PRC never demonize the KMT, Only the KMT DID! Heck they even recognize that without Chiang, there would be no PRC, no United China, Unlike Some Authoritarians States,
It shouldn't be taken for granted that Nationalist China would have had a bad relationship with the Soviet Union. The KMT received Soviet support from the beginning, and Chiang Kai-shek received training in Moscow. Even after the CCP rose to prominence, Stalin, paradoxically, favoured the Nationalists, pressuring Mao to join forces with the KMT, even after the Shanghai Massacre. During WWII it was the Nationalists that received military support from the USSR (Mao got only some propaganda leaflets), and after the war ended Stalin recognised the KMT as the national government of China, and signed a treaty of alliance with Chiang. Throughout the 45-9 Civil War Stalin, who distrusted and disdained Mao, stayed largely on the sidelines, and continued to advocate for China to be ruled by a coalition government. The Americans also, although technically on the Nationalists' side, disliked Chiang, whom they supported only reluctantly, and they too pushed for a ceasefire. So it wasn't as clear-cut as the CCP with the Soviets vs the KMT with the Americans.
KMT was unpopular and ruled by both corruption and incomptence. Stalin preferred Chiang so he could have a capitalist neighbor to trade with. Hell, Stalin hated Mao for not following Soviet communism. The differences of Stalin and Mao could been seen as early as the Korean War where Mao distrusted Stalin for not directly supporting both the PVA and KPA other than advisors, equipment, and volunteers.
I think if KMT weren't defeated and won the Civil war, China would become more neutral third party much like the non-aligned movement in the cold war, which China under Mao was an observer.
A China under KMT would have tried to take Mongolia back. Which could trigger a Soviet invasion. And China would be part of the only superpower on earth today - the Soviet Union.
@@zctao2577 Wrong. "That same year Sun sent Chiang to spend three months in Moscow studying the Soviet political and military system. During his trip in Russia, Chiang met Leon Trotsky and other Soviet leaders, but quickly came to the conclusion that the Russian model of government was not suitable for China. Chiang later sent his eldest son, Ching-kuo, to study in Russia."
Came here to sey exactly that. This whole concept seems rather unrealistic and I'm actually surprised that the author somehow omitted (forgot?) about the fact that the Soviets support KMD till the very end.
Without Mao, Kim il sung would not have attacked south Korea. He specifically waited for Mao to give permission for the fight since the Soviets didn't wanna risk joining themselves wich would agitate the US.
this video ignored one huge problem: the warlords. in the 1930's China is more like a loose confederation than a unified nation. in the year of 1928,after the Japanese assassinated ZhangZuoLin, the warlord of the north east. Zhang's son, ZhangXueLiang decide to obey the ROC government. then the ROC government become the most powerful force among those warlords in china. and unified China ...in name only yet KMT is strong , but not strong enough, those warlords are highly independent from the central government. their allegiance to the central government is in name only. they keep their own army, they issue their own currency and made their own tax policy.(remember Zhang's son? although he clams he obeys to the ROC government, he is still highly independent too!) those warlords like a king in their little kingdoms, the central government have little control in the local. the warlords get support from different foreign power by their own. they even war to others for their own benefit. EX. the Central Plains War (MAY,1930--Nov 4th,1930) even after the 2nd Sino-Japanese war, KMT and CCP annexed most of the remaining warlords, some of them still remains. in the following civil war, they either eliminate or annexed by CCP or escaped to Taiwan with ROC and annexed by KMT. so back to the main topic. when the time KMT launched the purge towards CCP(APR 12th,1927), the CCP didn't have any territory and their own army, but the warlords have territory, the have tax income, they have thier own weaponized army. they are much more strong than CCP. so even KMT could eliminate CCP in 1927,the KMT still have to deal the the warlord problem. it's hard to say what's gonna happen after that. maybe early or late, there still gonna be a civil war. back to reality, so after the 2nd CCP--KMT civil war, does China finally become a unified country? of course not.remember there is still a exile ROC government exist in Taiwan province? and there is no total armistice agreement has been signed between Taiwan and Mainland China. so theoretically, despite the super long ceasefire between Mainland China and Taiwan exists, the civil war is still on going. right?
History tells us that as a huge multi-nation country, 'democracy' is not suitable for China, only leaders (or so-called dictators) that are powerful enough like Mao Zedong can unite China.
@@christlau1233 How about the united states? It is literally a bunch of different countries (states), and it run just fine (i am not saying it is perfect) with democracy. And why must china 'unite' as a single country? How about a confedaracy of different states? Or something like the UK? Or forming a close group that benifit each other like the EU?
@@dickiewongtk Not possible. The only way to unite so many different people of different cultures and race would be by hating on one common enemy. The correct example would be India... they are so diverse and have so many conflicts in history. The only way they are United is due to sheer hatred for Pakistan. Same with Pakistan too. China would be no different.
I wouldn’t call Nationalist “incompetent” during their struggle against Japanese invader 1. Nanking has no strategic value, therefore the Nationalist withdrew their troops in order to defend the city of Wuhan (Wuhan is also a junction of numerous railroads that stretches into the heart of China, hence its strategic importance) 2. The Nationalist forces did manage to hold off the Japanese onslaught and achieved a strategic stalemate across the frontline around 1941. Their 1945 counteroffensive was largely successful (with American help of course) and the counteroffensive is very well on their way to drove the Japanese out of China if the Americans didn’t drop the atomic bomb and end the war early. 3. Nationalist held off a technologically superior enemy from 1937-41 with little outside help. This is a great and entertaining video nevertheless but I thought it might be a little unfair to label Nationalist “incompetent”. They fought bravely with whatever they had at that time, inflicted heavy casualties on the enemy, and contributed immensely to the Allied war effort.
Exactly. They did make mistakes like the yellow river flood but overall they were quite successful in repelling the Japanese invasion, and certainly did more than the communists who were putting in more effort to recruit soldiers than to fight.
Ng I completely agree with you, Yellow River flood was a terrible mistake indeed. But overall the Nationalist contributed so much more than that other faction that was so obsessed with preserving its own strength for the upcoming civil war.
@@jackuncles6233 Actually it was the nationalists that were preserving their armies to fight the civil war later. Chang kai shek didnt even want to fight the japanese until he was "convinced" into doing so
killer bee I am Chinese and I live in China, that was the typical communist interpretation of the war. In reality, Chiang Kai Shek lost most of his best train and equipped Central Army in the Battle of Shanghai. He did not hesitate to deploy his field armies in massive confrontation with the Japanese throughout the war.
killer bee Communist started with less than 40,000 solideres in 1937, by 1945 their size expanded well over 1,200,000. They DID preserve their strength and barely confronted the Japanese head on.
I don't know how realistic this scenario is, but what if Sun Yat-Sen lived longer and actually managed to create the American-style democracy he wanted to? It would be a big, unwieldy democracy with both main parties being pretty authoritarian.
It would be the single biggest tragedy. Look up the illiteracy rate at the time and think again if democracy is a good idea. Hell, I wouldn’t say it’s a good idea in the u.s. considering almost 30 school shootings has happened this year and literally a million ppl have died to fucking Covid and things are not looking up to change at all any moment soon.
Pretty impossible considering the sheer number of people in China, look at how big a problem political unrest is in the west, imagine the protests, and on rare occasions, riots, but in numbers so large that they could spark civil wars.