What INDIE Creatives Can Learn from HAZBIN HOTEL 

next video will be about ANGEL DUST!! (i think!)

I do not consume media, media consumes me

> We don't realize that we're putting our story socks back on, so to speak This analogy had me cackling

SCHNEE HAS WATCHED TOH?? The owl house clips were literally the best jump scares ever

And the thing is Hazbin Hotel sparked so many other indie creators to publish their works I believe, which created a NEW niche where people just really enjoy watching indie creations! I'm not even a hazbin fan, but I appreciate it for pushing forward indie productions.

I want to reference what Vivziepop said in an interview (which I am currently unable to find) to the effect of saying people should not watch Hazbin Hotel and takeaway that they should make the "next" Hazbin Hotel, but rather if you create and animate something you are personally passionate about it's that personal passion, drive, and style that will draw people in and bring success. The best takeaway from Hazbin Hotel for creators is to express your own style and passion, and that there is potentially a large but unseen audience with interest in what you can uniquely create. Don't let the mainstream dictate what you think you should create, make it if you like it.

You're SOOO right - so much of Hazbin Hotel is clippable. It makes it easy to share with friends because of it! A year before Hazbin Hotel's official release on amazon, another indie pilot called "Lackadaisy" was uploaded to RU-vid. I was wondering why it hadn't blown up the same way (it's furry content in a 1920s aesthetic, good animation, very niche and fun). This video answered that question for me 😅

Hazbin Hotel understands fandom culture and speaks fandom language. It shows. Because as you said, if you aim to the fandom your audience is a whole group of people who will create art, fics and tones of content promoting you for free, just because they love it. (full of a lot of this overlapping categories too)

Think about a Soap Opera. There isn't really an overarching *story* being told. It's putting a bunch of varied characters into a setting and nudging that default set up to create friction and then letting the characters bounce off that friction in their own unique ways. It's exceptionally compelling even if it isn't particularly *good* in some absolute sense.

You managed to make a great and educative analysis that made me reflect upon myself and the people I know, AND kinda made me want to watch that pilot that I wasn't really interested in. Thanks and great job.

Two majormajor things that played into the hype was that we could see how Viv handles a fuller production with Helluva Boss. We got to see a show fully on her and her studio’s terms. The other was that Viv was as transparent as possible, and tried to keep fans updated. Which you don’t normally get with larger animation productions.

Wait, all this hype was from a single 30 or so minute episode?!? That’s nuts. Your analysis was almost as long! You’ve got me sufficiently curious

that segment of how hazbin hotel spread from the musical fans to the christians literally blew my mind.. cuz i watched the show for the musical/gay/furry aspect and LITERALLY DID end up recommending it to my christian friend cuz i thought he'd find it funny and HE DID, and then my whole house watched it. You literally explained my own friend group's trajectory for watching the show

It’s very interesting, because the break neck pacing is a common criticism of the pilot and show in general, but this video highlights that it’s one of the reasons the pilot even got to 100 mil.

The thing about Hazbin Hotel (and Helluva Boss) is that it's first and foremost a satirical comedy that just so happens to be set in Hell. It's not really meant to be all about the great plot to save Hell, it's got space to focus on jokes and character moments and fun songs. It's not a fantastical fantasy story about underdog rebels overthrowing a powerful regime with the power of friendship and magical abilities, it's a comedy that takes that approximate situation and kind of good-naturedly takes the piss at it. Just like most comedy shows, the grand purpose is to have fun with the premise and explore character dynamics, more than having watertight worldbuilding or perfectly arranged grand plots. Idk if all that makes sense, but I'm saying it's not just knowing their audience, it's taking the aesthetic/typical events of one genre and using it as the background to another. In that sense it reminds me a lot of Star Trek: Lower Decks and The Second Best Hospital in the Galaxy, which take sci-fi aesthetics and worldbuilding into a comedy genre

I think a big aspect was the pandemic. RU-vid had recommended the pilot to me but I didn’t watch it until suddenly, there was a lot of stress, fear, significant limitations on other activities, such that me and a lot of other people were craving entertainment. I think having something there that gave a much needed respite meant a lot of us bonded to it more than we might otherwise had. Also, Helluva Boss kept the momentum up by giving people a show in the same universe, which underwrote the promise of HH until it was ready to launch.

its early and im recovering from a flare up so my brains not entirely catching up BUT i at least get the idea of how hazbin got so popular. ive been here since before the pilot and im so proud of viv and her team like holy shit if they can do it plenty more of us can right?!

All I was thinking when I, as a 47 year old man that has spent my entire life hanging out with weirdoes, saw Hazbin Hotel was... Oh... This is modern animated Rocky Horror Picture Show. Which by the way has had a fandom for close to 50 years without making any sense whatsoever... So just lets do the timewarp again I guess. :)

Never was I a fan of musicals but since the carefully-crafted musicals effectively deliver the story-telling & drives the plot, they eventually grew on me. Personally I never realized any flaw of Hazbin Hotel because the characters' personalities already caught my heart. They are characters that are believable to exist in real life. There's believable & solid conflict to exist. There's good in bad and bad in good (the ying & yang concept) which what I noticed Vivziepop used for her characters' development which is super cool. Note to me: You can make an element (musicals) to add more values to another element (storytelling), as compared to making the sole element (musicals) be good on its own.

When I watched the pilot the first time it legit felt like the universe was giving me something that was made specifically for me. Fot a while ive been searching for any shows or comics set in hell and never found anything good and then hazbin hotel came along and gave me that + great characters, songs, style, world, aesthetic, humor etc. The characters have personalities that it almost feels like i wrote them. The thumbnail already made me wanna click it but when i found out it was a musical just made me 3x more hyped to watch the episode, the artstyle is great, cartoony and cute. The world has so much potential and it looks so expansive and the aesthetic just literally seems like it was made for me, and the humorrrrr, like everything was so perfect its crazy. The only thing that felt off was the structure of how the story was told, its hard to explain but yeah, and then the show was way too fast paced, i wish the show had more time to breath and had a bit more structure and all that (still dont know how to explain what i mean but yeah) but i still love the show, not for the plot but for literally everything else

This is a excellent and very insightful analysis that i havent seen anyone else talk about as of yet, very good

Honestly I was getting so annoyed at all the criticisms people had for this show. Not because their points are unfounded or that I don’t agree with them, but because it just feels like everybody is taking it so personally as if watching the show physically hurt them. Meanwhile I was too busy enjoying myself to even notice a lot of the flaws in the first watch through. I tend to lean more towards slice of life shows so the loose plot didn’t bother me, but it’s clear that’s something other people value a lot more than I do. Once again it’s all just a matter of priorities ig

I'm an older millennial. I grew up reading and writing fanfic. Vivzie's only about ten years younger than me. Our generation baked in weird fanfic. I love Red vs. Blue, RWBY, and Steven Universe because they feel fanficcy. They hit that sweet spot for me.

You showing coly for 'has been in every fandom' was such a jumpscare

This week has been blessed by schnee upload

I love the word grimsical and that it is now part of my vocabulary. Thank you, Schnee!

The minute you used Owl House clips I got excited. If you start doing videos on that, I will be so happy.

Schnee knows of Castle Swimmer and it's not weird that he does I guess but it's like my perception of reality collapsed in on itself but in a good way Edit: He knows Coley too... Reality is curling into itself

Its a good day when schnee posts Edit: Has schneee watched the owl house?!?!?? (O-O)

2:24 CASTLE SWIMMER REP!!!

When you were talking about how all 3 strengths can alternate blowing the audience's socks off it made me realize why I love the Arcane finale so much. In the final moments all 3 strengths (story, music, and animation) climax all at the same time. Having it all line up really works for a finale since it just leaves the audience with a sense of awe and there's no need to immediately 1-up it since the season is then over.

I'm enjoying the level of meta with schnee talking about pieces of media getting free advertising from content creators 😂

you using toh to explain made my smile so big also me knowing every youtuber you showed made you just prove your point to me

This video is actually so good and so well written and it went inside my head?? There were such accurate things like the people whose consumption of media is more about their identity and self expression than the media itself?? Are you in my walls?

I think it's actually underestimating to say that Vivzie's prior work didn't have a major influence on the attention Hazbin Hotel got. Vivziepop was and still is a huge cornerstone of the animator's internet, and by extension the artist's internet. Her now privatized animation, Die Young, had around 74 million views by time it became inaccessible mid 2023. She had built an audience over more than a decade, not just for Hazbin, she was well known and recognized by 2015. Even most of the drama she is known for happened prior to the pilot. Of course, the animated releases of Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss blasted her into space, but to say she wasn't already in the rocket by the time of Hazbin Hotel's pilot is heavily watering down her presence on the internet and the following she had. Without her early internet presence I do not believe it would have been half as popular as quickly as it was.

At this point good writing is subjective, cuz like something can be so well written yet people would not even care to watch it, while hazbin isnt perfect yet I love it so much, call it bad writing but to me its genius

A lesser youtuber would name this video "Hazbin Hotel SUCKS, But Here's Why It's Popular" but this guy very effectively criticized a viral sensation without being offensive. Hats of to you.

this whole video just reminded me how last year when the fnaf movie came out there was A LOT of critcts to it but it was still a HUGE success because of it's audience, me and my friends used to wonder who in the world would be able to use that same strategy to create GOOD media... guess Vivzipop is the first on that list 🌈

Me, a gay loving person, about to gayly consume more gay media. Also oh my god Castle Swimmer, that webcomic is so good (and gay)

agreed with all of this, and here to ADD that the show creators got first-hand experience on what to do with Hazbin's sister show, Helluva Boss, which is actively airing on youtube with a new episode every few months or so. Majority of Helluva Boss fans came originally from Hazbin, as its pilot was released afterwards. It's a show set in the same universe, following hell-born demons instead of Hazbin Hotel's sinner (mortal souls in hell) cast. There's an overarching plot, romance, silly and dirty jokes, snarky, quotable characters, etc. I'm CERTAIN that the years-long fandom accumulation to Helluva Boss gave Vivziepop a frame of reference on how people would react to Hazbin Hotel, what to hammer in (good music, touching moments between characters, etc) and what to leave out (lack of care for a character's development when the episode isn't focused on them, "filler" episodes (tho that one is probably because of Amazon only giving them 8 to work with), etc)

The Amazing Digital Circus is another animated show made by an indie studio and a part of me wonders if this is the future for animation, like are we going to be seeing more animated plots uploaded to RU-vid in hopes it to go viral creating a fanbase before season 1 is even greenlit.

as someone who Does Not Like this show, this video was actually very helpful in teaching me how it got so popular so,,, thank you

My biggest dream is to have a personal Schnee to analyze thoughtfully every one of my favorites pieces of media

A important note you left out. The success of helluva boss. The show is a big hit on the internet and gathered a following which got people interested in watching the other project they have which is hazbin

I found Hazbin Hotel one day in 2020 while playing roblox. I was using youtube as background music, and I kept seeing it pop up, thinking it was a song, and ended up playing it just to see. Part way through "I'm Always Chasing Rainbows," I realized, this is a show, so I watched it the rest of the way. I showed my friends the next time I saw them and we all got hooked 😂 . Best thing that ever happened to me in 2020 to be honest.

I am absolutely someone who sees media as a part of my identity. It’s exactly how I found this channel. I have several google docs FULL of notes taken while watching your breakdowns of Arcane because of how amazing that show is, and how I want to do everything I can to make my stories a fraction as good. Plus, you break it all down REALLY well! It would be my dream to have you do a video about my story…..lol

I’ve actually heard the term “power creep” used in terms of shonen anime, since the typical format is that this character goes on an adventure to become more powerful and face an impossible task. The characters need to grow more powerful, as do their adversaries, but it can’t just purely come from nowhere, and stakes still must be present to keep engagement and excitement for the future stories that the shonen will tell.

What genuinely baffles me is how hazbin hotel is so much more popular than it's sister show Helluva Boss way before we even had the first season of Hazbin. Like, how tf does this pilot have so much fan engagement and art and cosplayers and fanfictions when Helluva Boss already had it's first season AND half of the 2nd season out on RU-vid for free as well??? We're comparing just the hazbin hotel pilot and a few webcomics, to a fully fleshed out show with better quality and character depth at this point.

Wow, this was a really fascinating, insightful, and well made video. Thanks for making it.

As a person who is a Fan of disney, musical, 90s Animation, Gay love, etc. This Show felt like it was made for me.

this analysis of hazbins success was really helpful for me, i watched literally all the shows you put up as examples of “related audience” and these are the types of shows that i love to watch, this pretty much explained the science behind it and i love it! this will help me when i feel like creating stories of my own related to this sort of “weird queer kid who most likely has one or more niche interests and is an absolute geek over things they like” audience 😁😁😁😁

Idk, I dont care how many people whatch/love/engage with a show, I won't fold to the audience. While your analysis was great, I can't take much out of it because my way of enjoying art is with the piece itself, and I want to make good art, not engagable, sell-able, fandom-able art. If I die poor or If I never get to make a big project with nice funding well, that's a shame, but I will not let the audience change my art edit: I know there are different ways of axoeriencing art. it's just that this one is not for me

You make really great content man :) , love your analytical style videos, they're a breath of fresh air from other large channels that make videos calling it 'analysis' when it's simply just exposition dump and barely anything else (Pyrocynical for example). Had a possible suggestion for a future video too: the show Invincible is packed with deep writing and developed characters and it might be a show you enjoy making a video about

Those things, knowing how the audience works, how identities work, analysing how something could become succesful, and tbh, analysing in general, are some things i am very very bad at and that's why i looooove your videos, they are amazing. Thank you for sharing you throughts and analysis.

Really good analysis. Frankly, between this video and the last one, you do a good job explaining why this show has resonated with so many people. I personally love the show, but will admit it has flaws (though generally its still a good show and I don't think its nearly as bad as some people say). But thats the thing: You don't need to think a piece of media is one of *the best* for it to be one of *your favorites.* The ironic thing I have to laugh at is that even though I enjoy the show a lot, I don't think I'm anywhere near the target audience for this show. Of all the personalities you mentioned, I only really related to "religious Christian" (at least compared to my generation, but definitely not a zealot), and "neurodivergent" (though its manifested in me in a way that wouldn't make shows like this my cup of tea). In fact, many other shows that appeal to the Hazbin audience, I just haven't been able to get in to. And yet, I still love the show. While I'm sort of a crypto-fan of it, I've been a devout fan for years and really has grown to be one of the pieces of media I cherish the most, and I would probably be more of an outward fan if more people in my circles were as into it as I was. But watching this video really made me wonder why this show has become so important to me. It's not for me yet I still see myself in it, and its not just one of my favorite *shows*, but one of my favorite *things*. Idk if anyone is going to read this. I just felt I had to pen these thoughts, because this video made me think a lot about myself. Good job!

Whale turning people into horses is still my favorite video

Yas!👏🏼 More Hazbin videos!😍❤️

omg GRUFF! it’s amazing to see one of the best creators on your vids schnee :)

One more thing about that comment on activation cost- the Hazbin Hotel pilot starts with a song, and this song is the only one in the episode that is a cover. It’s the Judy Garland song, “I’m always chasing rainbows”. Even if you had no prior knowledge of this show and accidentally clicked it, you’re already going to be interested because it’s starting with something known, and not even just known, something that is apparent and carries a lot a respect and admiration. Whether or not it was on purpose, I’ll say when I watched the show for the first time I immediately was like, “wait a minute, is that the Judy Garland song?” Im feeling like, “why haven’t I watched this?” like you said. Amazing video!

So great to see my fav video essayist to touch on this show :)

Love this breakdown, I myself love Hazbin for its diverse characters and personalities, being a fanfic gremlin, I love stories of characters talking and dealing with each others problems. So when a show has characters whose designs and personalities I like, I’m jumping straight into the fic fandom

This was an excellent video. Thanks for such an informative discussion.

Amazing analysis! I especially love how you integrated Escher's Staircase Method into it. Not only did you explain it really well. But applying it to this different medium is such a great idea! I never quite thought of it as a kind of diversification, like a good investment, but it becomes more obvious in this context.

Your videos are always refreshing and enlightening, thank you bro

To be fair I think a lot of the issue with the story telling is that they were only given 8 episodes to tell the story for season 1. Had they been given a more reasonable amount of episodes I think we would have had better pacing and development

Now I must use this analyzation on the amazing digital circus but 3 times as much!

Great vid man, thanks. I could really use this. Have a good day.

This is absolutely fantastic analysis and advice, thank you!

9:53 The look how hard I can P meme is one of my favorites, I laughed hysterically.

ANOTHER Schnee Video about Hazbin!?!? Is it my birthday already!? Love your takes and you analysis and how you somehow manage to hit it dead on the nail. ‘It’ being that thing that we want to be able to express and to analyze, but we haven’t quite connected enough dots or found the right words or “out-of-the-box-or-outside-of-the-classic-and-conventional-explanations” thoughts that you are so good at finding and articulating and make easily consumable. And like you said, most gushing about HH is just like 15:58 (and it is lovely) but so to ALSO see a deep dive that actually goes behind the inworld scenes and explains why we feel the way the show makes us feel, WHY it affects us and makes us want to keep gushing. Absolutely amazing! Love the work you do, love it every time I see you post something new, thank you for putting all this work into these amazing thoughts and sharing them with us!

I substitute teach in middle school and I can see the taboo in action with some of the artistic alt kids. I'll see the fanart they made, ask them slightly aghast what business they have watching that show as a 12 year old, and then compliment their drawing of Alister.

This was so interesting and encouraging. Thank you!

Fantastic and helpful analysis as always! I haven't watched HH and (probably never will), but your analysis neatly captures the "why" for that as well as why it was such a successful indi project. Plenty of useful take-aways regardless of what you make and what you're into!

You know I have never understood what exactly market research and all that stuff around that is but now you have opened my eyes a little to that enormous world. Very interesting and as always well presented and easy to understand.

I love the Hazbin Hotel story, personally (though of course the characters and art and songs are gold as well)

I was NOT expecting a Magic the Gathering reference in this video AND a reference to Mark Rosewater??? AND HIS DRIVE TO WORK PODCAST???? I'm a huge Magic fan and, sir, you absolutely made my day! : D Oh, yeah, and the rest of your video was insightful and awesome lol.

I swear I've been watching a lot of your videos ever since arcane and I've never watched arcane, still haven't lol. I'm so happy you're covering up about hazbin hotel, since it's the only thing i watch in yt rn. Thank you for your great analysis, keep up the awesome work :)).

About audience - it shouldn't be just pandering to the intended audience, like big studios often do, it needs to say "You and me - we are one blood, we speak the same language". It's even illustrated in the Hazbin Hotel show itself in one of the last episodes - canniballs refuse to follow Charlie until she spoke with them like the theater and musical nerd she is(and they are). (off topic, but I just wanna note: hazbin also appeals to me on the meta level as a story about screenwriter pitching her ideas to the higher ups and, as a writer myself, I find it amusing. did anybody else noticed it tho?)

I would love to see Schnee do some sort of video on The Amazing Digital Circus. I'm so curious to see what they pull from it, whether it be writing, media, or character analysis-- I just really love this channel's way of looking and explaining things.

8:16, literally became the Leonardo Decaprio pointing meme when I saw Ambrosius and Ballister 😱👉

Great vid. Keep it going 👍

Thank u good video putting towards what ive been unconciously doing in finding an audience for my music

Like before, I hope twitter doesn’t find this video

Your channel is AMAZING

We literally bought Amazon prime to watch just this show in my house.

An interesting watch! Also, always excited when folks bring webcomics into conversations here, hell yes to the classic indie medium!

0:01 Dang look at that creative person...

Brilliant breakdown

Oh wow! That staircase analogy is making me look at literally all the media I've interacted with & loved with fresh eyes....

1:15 GONCHAROV the greatest mafia movie ever created!

dudeee why are you an actual GENIUS

I'm so grateful for Schnee

Sooo this video sent me spiriling in an existential artistic crisis ! I don't LIKE it but I do deserve it.

I wonder if Schnee has seen the lackadaisy pilot. Since it can also apply the “90’s cartoon” you haven’t watched yet.

the whole taboo aspect is definitely something very powerful. it's almost like magic because it kind of has to be put out there to the right people at the right time

Ok this is fantastic advice and something I never would have thought of on my own. Thank you, I’m not looking to become extremely popular, I wanna find my niche group and provide for them and them alone. But I do think this will be useful to help me establish myself there.

People especially large corps greatly underestimate the amount of success that can be found in targetting unseen and niche audiences. They always assume that targetting the common folk is most profitable cause theyre larger in number but theyre wrong. Niche internet communities are much larger in number than people realize, and theyre willing to pay BIG money on anyone that creates things that appeal to them because they get so little of it. They also don't realize that neurodivergent people are much more susceptible to obsession, and therefore far more likely to spend huge amounts on things like merch and extra content. Common neurotypical folk less so.

This was amazing! I personally started watching Viv’s shows by watching Helluva boss which I think is really good and intriguing with its story telling and I’d love too see an analysis video on it!(of course, only if you want too!) I absolutely love Hazbin hotel as well, what you have said explains how I feel wholeheartedly. Great job!

I only knew about this show because I saw you and a few other RU-vidrs I follow posting videos about it

I still really appreciate Hazbin, it restarted the indie animation craze, it was really fun and creative and even if you don’t like the show you can still appreciate it for what it did Edit: I just wanted to also add the fact that I love how the show did what I feel like like a lot of shows should do, and that is to not appeal to a demographic or trends. Just make a show for a type of person I feel like it tried to make a show for people who love old 90s and 2000s cartoons, people who love raunchy sex comedies, classic Disney musicals, and people who love shows that take risks