This is the go-to video if you have no idea what a poor mans type r is and want to know what it is all about! Instagram: Mitonfilms Cheap/Reliable/Fast (You can only choose two)
Great job explaining man! Factory type R intake manifold with 70 mm throttle body will work great with your setup! Good luck man can't wait to see how it goes!
i wouldnt run a 70mm on a n/a setup. 64-68 would more like it or even the stock TB is fine. the 70mm is more for force induction because that is what im running on mine
I had a B16A Gen II with a type-r intake manifold, blox 70mm tb, ebay 4-1 headers and type-r dual valve springs with gsr cams and my car revved all the way to 9,000 and never fell off. It pulled strong all the way through.
The D series deserves more love. The longer stroke gives it much more get up and go in every day driving situations than the B series does. Of course we had the A9 and Z5 (same head but the Z has a cat) D16 engines here, they are pretty much the same thing as the ZC.
D16A9 Power : 125-129 hp (91.9-94.8 kW, 126-130 PS) at 6,800 rpm Torque : 105 lb·ft (14.5 kg/m, 143 Nm) at 5,700 rpm D16Y8 Power: 127 hp (95 kW) at 6,600 rpm Torque: 107 lb·ft (145 N·m) at 5,500 rpm Not too much between them really, I do think the A9 has more potential though.
Long time listener, first time caller here. About those valve springs: The dual valve springs that come on the intake side of B16 and GSR is the same (marked with blue paint) part #s that come on the ITR/CTR Exhaust side. The Intake side of the ITR/CTR uses a very different pair of valve springs on their intake side(marked with yellow paint). My guess is these springs are used to compensate for the higher lift and ramp rates of the ITR/CTR intake cams. Hondas are like giant legos and you can make almost any combination of parts work, but pay keen attention to the small details in the difference of part #s. Parts may look the same but a difference that you cant see with the naked eye, in this case the rates of the valve spring, can mean dropping a valve at 8600 rpms and destroying a whole longblock.
Really they are different? I guess i looked at the wrong chart. My car has a mixture of gsr and b16 inner/outer valve springs and spins up to 8400 so i can assure you its fine, but anything past that and it could get ugly....
Great job on the video. Its pretty obvious that you have a realistic goal for your build plus you seemed to have weighed out the pros and cons pretty well. I used to build cars back in the day and was usually in the same position as you, still needing it as a practical daily driver. People would say " Why not this and why not that?" There are always gonna be haters that know what you need better than you do, lol. Keep up the good work.
Finally someone that knows what they are talking about. I was about to mention something about the B16 tranny, but then you covered that too. On the header if you're looking for more midrange for the track. Look into the RMF header. You might not see the power on the top end, but you don't want to be gutless. Dont just worry about the top end and horsepower. Look at getting the power where you need it based on the type of track you plan to run. Good luck.
Its the smart man Setup its more then likely to last you awhile. I did something similiar and had it for over 12 years. Now moving into the B16B build and building it is not exactly poor man when you add the build, pistons, retainers, ARP rod bolts , ARP Head Studs , Built B16B head and Skunk 2 Cams titnuim retainers it will be a mini Beast.
Good vid. Back in the day the term "poor mans type R" was thrown around a lot and I didn't know what the F they were talking about but I was too scared to ask. Didn't want to look stupid lol
thats the problem with the car community these days, cant ask a question without getting roasted. but the reason you ask is to be more knowledgeable, its annoying. great vid dude. always enjoy your vids. cant wait to hear the first start up
Yeah bro people act as if they were born with knowledge and not humble at all but it is always good to ask regardless because you are trying to gain something for yourself
SeventhSoul how do u kno what parts are what like gsr block this head that intake etc..... How can I tell the difference just getting into the import world I have a jdm b20b motor
im a rwd nissan/toyota guy myself and i briefly owned a dc2 with a b18b and it was alot of fun around the corners even though it was slow lol living in vegas theres tons of cheap shells but theft is high sooooo maybe someday ill get into building a simple honda lol TLDR im a closet honda fan
Spend the extra money and get the EXEDY Sport Clutch Kit. Just my 2 cents. I love mine in my CRX. Is a little hard with a cable but you shouldnt have a problem.
I have a D14 (1.4L) Civic for ten years now, and I've just built my engine, something like the poor man's Type-R...! I've fully rebuilt a B16A engine, using parts from the B16B and B18C. :)
Props for this vid! Finally someone who get's it with r/s and LSVTEC. I'm mostly keeping it OEM as well, just choosing the right Honda parts to suit the needs. Will stay tuned :)
You do not want your pistons .0020 in the block at tdc . a good engine builder usually runs .002 - .0010 over deck hgt. It ups your compression better than milling heads. Especially if your using a stock cam and no worries about valve clearence.
Make sure you buy a Hondata Heatshield intake manifold gasket for that engine!! Well worth the 40 bucks. Significantly lowers intake manifold temperatures and you'll absolutely gain power. I have one on my 98 Spec JDM ITR (: Good luck with the build buddy! Love seeing all OEM. My ITR is untouched internally for the same exact reasons you mentioned (:
The ITR head isn't really ported it's a casting of its self. It's meant to flow 1.8 litters just like the Gsr head. So in reality the gsr head is better for a poor man itr then a b16 head. I don't believe titanium retainers wear at all. the 1st generation b16 heads came with aluminum retainers (witch by the way people confuse for titanium) so when they upgrade to after mark dual valve springs or really push the engine. The aluminum retainers fail. (They will crack/break) and that's y people believe titanium retainers wear. the b16 transmission is the best option for both boost and N/A applications! Boost lag is determined by engine rpm not by gear ratio or mph.
gsr cams still make good power till 8300rpm if you set the red line to 8500rpm it will make sure you get full power curve and will make sure your in the power band in the next gear.
That block machining does not look correct for a honda motor. It's supposed to be glass smooth, as well as the head. Or you WILL burn oil/Coolant and have a leaking head gasket.
Can you feel the machining work with your fingernail? If you can, it is not correct. Honda engines require a glass smooth head and block surface for proper head gasket sealing. Un-experianced machine shops don't know this.
Good call with the b16 intake for your set up. All the info I have seen on the b16 tranny though says it has the 4.4 final drive. It's the gsr that has slightly taller gearing. Test it by putting it in 4th and rotating the input shaft 10 times. The diff should rotate 2.05 times and that tells you it's the 4.4.
I’m wanting to daily a project eg or project a daily which ever way you talk. Been researching the shit outta these Honda motors. It seems to get the torquey motor I want I should go K24 and put k20 head on it, I’m not sure what would be more torquey without being super expensive, definitely wanna stay NA until I can afford to buy the rotrex SC, but before that I’ll upgrade internals in block and want to throw a 4piston cylinder head on it also. What would have more torque than a k24....
i dont get why anyone would do this build. why spend the money sourcing these when you can just build your gsr or b16? i figure you could get your head machined for cheaper than you can buy a b16 head, and youll also have a potentially better performing motor.
this the stuff i was doing about 10 years ago with my lsv crx, it had jdm b16a slugs so around roughly 11.3:1, arp rod bolts and head studs. that thing definitely had traction issues
Ok is there any fucking Honda related video on RU-vid that DOESN'T have a cancerous comment section? Holy shit, I've been doing this shit for almost 5 years and I'm more and more disappointed with what these people choose to say online every year ha. Like they legit think what they have to say matters lol. Great video however! I just recently got ahold of an Ek to daily drive, my first hb. I hope to produce some B series action under the hood, always been a D-series guy.
how is the rod to stroke ratio of an ls vtec motor that far off of the type r and why wouldn't you go there? the b18c5 has a rod/stroke ratio is 1.58 and the ls is 1.54... very marginal wouldn't you say?
Milton , you are awesome !!! I own a Mazda with 13 Compression Ratio , but , I have 2 friends who are GSR , Type - R owners , I must let them know about you . Great video !!!!!!!!!!!!!
man the build your doing is great good balance in japan most togue and or circuit racers that build street cars go the way your going power in numbers is not always everything your on the right track bro
I built this lastnight with my brother because we had the gsr block with no head and a b16 head no block so I made this exact same build but I’m using the oem gsr pistons but I’m okay with low comp because I’m going turbo. Will be interesting to see I think
So question. If i rebuild my engine with 163k miles, whats the pros? Is this like bringing the engine to 0 miles? Just got into the whole honda scene so not too familiar with all this.
Maryland resident let’s goooo. I miss those old tags :( I wish they still made em man. New Maryland flag plate is ugly as shit. I’ll probably get the support the farmers tag just to be unique
Any thought on competition clutch stage 2 and 10ibs light flywheel , running that on my stock gsr block and so far I'm use too it and you can still leave first gear at 800rpms or lower! just an idea man, love your videos.
I just got a 97 del sol with the b16a2. I was thinking of swapping to a poor man's type r but the car only has 86k miles o's I figured I might as well put some miles on this engine. Any recommendations on good upgrades/ bolt ons for the b16a2? Or, could I just buy a gsr block and build that? Would that work with my head and transmission?
dude u know titanium is stronger then steel rite even the command base steel but good job explaining everything for those who didn't know I would at least upgrade the retainers and keepers
+Luis Viera Thanks✌ But the titanium retainers "i have heard" are thinner and lighter than the oem and stretch due to the heat causing them to potentially crack. Its not something that happens overnight though..
wait, why in the world would you downgrade from a GSR head to a lesser B16/TypeR head? whats the only advantage of a typeR over a GSR? cams, springs and a mild port and polish, all of which will be replaced when chasing more power and the port work will be more than stock. whats the advantage of a GSR head over a B16/TypeR? quench pads, single handedly the most important part compared to all of the above combined. with quench pads, the same Compreasion ratio is achieved with less dome on the piston while also being able to have more resistance to detonation so you can either add more timing for more power or go for a little more compression. there os a reason why Dart went and mimicked a GSR head when they made their own instead of an open chamber design like a B16/TypeR
most inform response from all this so far , alot of these people just go by word of mouth , i agree gsr head has more potential for all motor or boosted , at the end of the day all motor can only go so far like 300 hp more or less always , you will need boost to make real power , these guys just dream of vtec .
So i was almost confused by this video but i did some research and now i wanna question. But a lsv with type r head and type r pistons is the same as your gsr with type r internals and type r head. The theory behind this is that everything on a b series is usually the same except compression ration and deck height. But the b18 blocks and b20 block have the same deck height. The piston height is different though between ls and type r. An ls is 9:1 while a type r is 11:1. So technically the lsv is either a type r or a gsr. Depending on the head and internals. So my question to you is how did you come about thinking you had to use the gsr block please cite sources. Because i wanna do more research before i go type r a ls motor.
B18B block with B16 head and type r internals is NOT the same as a poor mans type or close to a type r motor. B18B block and B18C block are totally different. B18B block first off does not have oil squirters, strong rods(different sized rods, or a crankshaft girdle...A B18C does. Now the B18C was made to rev high(The B18C has a rigid design/structure), the B18B was not. I chose the B18C for strength and reliability"Lets just say circuit racing puts a tremendous amount of stress on your engine due to long durations at high rpm. "Now you can" put gsr internals in a ls block but it would be a downgrade as the ls crankshaft provides more torque than a gsr....thats why B18B has 1834cc and B18C has 1797cc. It sounds like you want to do an Lsvtec swap? If you are just building a fast daily and your car does not see any track time "Circuit" then this would be the route i suggest.Final note, B18B block does not have as many oil ports on the block compared to a B18C. Most of this info you can just check on Acuraoemparts.com and see for yourself what came with the B18B compared to the B18C Cite sources? Say no more.... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8G293Hr5Pwg.html honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-type-r-8/poor-mans-type-r-1479462/ axleaddict.com/misc/How-To-Build-A-LSVTEC-Frankenstein-Motor
Miton Films even in the link it says the helms is wrong. i built a la trans with b16/itr 1-3 b16 4th LS 5th and 99/00 civic si b16 4.4 final drive. Even zeal website list the b16 with 4.4 trans.
Hey i like your videos and youre knowledgable but you can go higher compression and it be fine on pump gas if you have a bigger duration set of cams you'll be fine
K24a/2 best Honda Engine. Lmao JK I'm partial to the K24 cause it freaking slaps, and only costs ~2.4k to swap into my FG2 (not including tune and passenger side CRV bracket)
Mason Brooks I'm convinced there is some sort of voodoo involved with them. Almost every stock/aftermarket I have seen, they leak. On the other hand my best local tuner/builder (LHT performance, check them out he built an AWD turbo k-swapped Insight for SEMA a few years ago) he only uses oem cam seals, even on 800 hp B18's, but he's a pro he's figured out something.
Good explanations, I think you should talk a little louder or closer to the microphone and then turn the intro outro music sound levels down to match,...
