What is a Tier List? (MSC Special) 

XD

Ness, lucario, and sonic for S tier

shinin till he starts cryin

Iwata mii fighters are top tear than. ;_;

Let's get a formula going, I'm sure u can turn it into a college paper.

wait why are you here? arent you the person who commented on a bunch of those undertale songs

Yes siruy it does

yes

But Kirby being bottom of the tier list makes it about 60% worse so now it is about 13.29% better

I’d say yes, but my profile pic is Ness... Not Kirby...

Best joke I've seen in a long while!

Well... You're not wrong

Honestly its a Fox can beat any skilled Roys. Please get it right

+Will You didn't watch shine did you?

+Will In the Roy vs. Fox mu in Smash 4, no one has a huge advantage. I actually thinks it's a lot of fun for Roy. Aggro vs. Aggro

Donovan Lel

Donovan underrated comment

It could work against rock as well though....rocks broken for sure

True

Paper frames needed :30 scissors :70 rock:0

Something Random Inc. Spoiler alert: it's everyone

BCT Alicorn except jigglypuff. #Buffthepuff

Something Random Inc. pretty much, matchups against every character are considered, so Ganondorf is considered

P A I N

That's not a pun.

Because "limits were meant to be broken," am I right?

Ohhhhhhhhh

Tiers are meant to be broken XD

+Static You people don't seem to understand what a pun is. A pun is when you take advantage of a word having multiple meanings. That wasn't at all a pun.

Better nerf greninja

79$

So are siivagunner rips

Agreed! This guy needs more subs than OBE1plays!

True, but OBE1 wants to have 100,000 subscribers before March. So I'm saying MSC deserves more subs than OBE1

I think he dropped pacman because of his Match with dabuzz Rosalina

Abadango still played Pac-Man after that and got revenge on Dabuz by beating him with Wario (who has a positive matchup on Rosa even without Customs) but eventually dropped both for Meta Knight and Mewtwo regardless.

He still plays pac-man but not very often.

*****​​ Did it ever occur to you people have FUN succeeding at what they love? They're NOT obligated to entertaining the audience. If you want variety, there has to be balance, but Nintendo sucks at that. Hence why Project M exists.

Rbdn T Why should it have to be fun to the people watching? THEY'RE certainly not going to pay the player thousands of dollars in cash for winning; the organized tournament is.

Cloud is a higher tier.

Yes. I know that. They made a pun. Pushing the limits of Cloud? More like breaking the limits amirite? There, did that make it easier to understand?

***** Yeah see, what had happened was I didn't see where you had written "I see what you did there", so instead of understanding it was a pun I had incorrectly thought you believed cloud was not a high tier. Some people aren't wired for puns my man, my bad.

Or pushing the limits higher as in... to the CLOUDS!!!!!!!! OOOHHHHH

When it comes to Cloud puns, the sky's the Limit.

Tournaments are a way for us to see what the character is capable of, which makes tournament results an important factor aside from just analyzing the raw 'tool set' of a character. Think of it like this: If Amsa didn't show that his Yoshi techs/strats were so effective in competitive play (tournaments), we would have never known.

+Death 13th look up tremendo dude and nicko.

+Death 13th Lucina says hi, there`s even tier lists that omit her entirely just because there`s not enough people that play as her in order to make an acurrate judgment, lol.

Just to add to what MSC said: a technique needs to be proven that it's effective in competitive play because there are some techniques which are either too difficult or too situational to be useful in a match.

***** I was talking more about debatable tech, not obviously helpful tech. I'm talking more about tech like Bidou: when it came out, we knew it existed, but we didn't know if it was practical enough for competitive play, or if it was worth the effort. Though, I don't know how Bidou is looked at today because I don't keep up-to-date on the latest Smash news... Uh, I'm really not the best person to talk with about this.

yep i agree

Just Breathe Cool ^_^ Though it seems someone does not agree at all, and thinks Denmark is a weak region.....guess he has never played against Green or Laske xD RU-vid deleted his comment though, so its all fine :)

I can get more results in For Glory when I play as Yoshi, Bowser, and Duck Hunt than when I play as Marth or Ganondorf.

DreeGon While it's a year old, heavily agree. The best tier list for people is their PERSONAL list, subjective to only themselves. I found myself being pretty good with Toon Link, or Sonic, yet I keep seeing Fox and Falco treated as ultimately the best, when in fact it's all about the PLAYERS and their style, some are more ranged, keeps a good distance, yet deals good damage, others are more close and personal, hit and runs, suicide bombers, pit traps, quick shooter, etc, etc the list goes on. Though having the tier lists shows which characters have more time invested, and skills, and tactics work, I'm no competitive player, even if I playfully mock/brag being such and get rekt'd soon after and left laughing, but I would definitely start focusing on low, or even bottom tier characters, and learn how to use them to their fullest, because let's face it, SOMEONE is going to pro play Pichu, and take out insane high tiers, Bayonneta, Ridley, Cloud, you name it. It would only be a matter of time. Overall, there is no garbo character or shit tier, it's all up to the players, and their skills against each other that truly matter in a fight, competitive or casual, it could be a high clash, one sided, or an underdog battle, and with the new smash, I hope they can put a bit more of an emphasis on that, that no character is a waste of a slot, even echo fighters, though I'm not the biggest fan, do have some differences that can be meaningful to other players. (Personally, Dark Pit could've had a totally unique move set with whatever weapons Pit doesn't use in Smash from Uprising, but oh well) and that each of them DO have what it takes to be at the top, it just depends on who uses them, and most of all, it's just a game, it doesn't have to be taken that seriously. (I'm item trash because it keeps the fights unpredictable, and even wild with the right combinations on screen. XD)

@I’m Falling Through Life He said best Falco player, not best overall.

IWATAAAA

Thanks for pointing that out!

Saw it, but didn't really notice it

RIP my soul

***** There was a Mii of Satoru Iwata

Oh yeah they do.

they do...but they doesnt matter that much

my car has four of them

idk why, but that was really funny

MY PEOPLE NEED ME

Lmao youre channels dead

Your

Wait

*we need to talk about parallel universes

and set this box up so I can back into it at a perfect angle for literal days...

Build up speed for 12 hours.

nice meme

Lets talk about Tyler breeze

+Pickled Gremlin Not that one, lol

GBA 049 might not have been hate you know

what are you talking about? Rock has the late reveal option select. That alone puts it at S tier

lol scissors is a hard counter to paper and rock slightly loses to paper,if paper doesn't cover correctly it gives rock a huge advantage to break out of papers grab thus rock is the best character of the 3

Rock comes out faster and has the option to change at the last second, The others are too distinct and you have no choices once you choose one. Rock is top tier and the other two are tied.

Most tournaments ban the late reveal

No every one is wrong it’s obviously ropasers it beats all 3

It's a new technique that kills the opponent, and the entire stage. No, but really its just Omega Pacland, poison mushroom, and the plain green background. Ultra/Chroma Key the green out of the footage.

Did you seriously just ask that? It's their taunts and idle animations.

Ohhh _that's_ why he was a little blurry

He was asking how MySmashCorner was able to get such a clean outline with the shadow.

+Shadow Lord (Shadow) Yes, but it's ONLY them, nothing else.

me too?

Buddy, if you dont know, no one else will.

+Psi_Smash I subbed because of kirby...

To answer your hypothetical question: Yes, if they did that, the low tier will probably rise in rank if they are able to show that there are effective tools/strategies/techs the low tier character has which was unknown before.

+My Smash Corner. Megaman

+Neebah Cuber Point proven xD

I think most people's disdain for tier lists comes from the fact that chances are, most low tier characters are not going to get the chance they deserve to truly shine in high competitive play, because nobody wants to lose a tournament match or the placement they're aiming for, just because of the character they used. You can say that X characters has all these tools all the live long day, and while it's true they have those tools, but the tools of the lower tiers will never be discovered if nobody gives them a chance and tries to develop their meta-game. This bias against low tiers that causes them to stay there is my main reason for showing disdain for them.

+Velen Zaiga but then you have players like Dath

Well, you're not wrong... After all, the tier lists are based off of equally skilled top tier Smash players average win number against every character, and not how good they are in all situations. Brawl is a *slight* exception because even if Meta Knight is super powerful, he is hard to learn and use. #FoxIsToo******ingOP

Rant BEWARE: There are certain reasons why they say this tbh. It seems stupid but after arguing with a lot of them for a whole lot, they say it because they think "X character has X move and it can do a lot" But some ( NOT ALL ) seem to forget what this is like going against a TOP PLAYER. Not The Locals, I mean ZeRo. If you roll 5 times he already has in his mind that you roll A LOT. so if sees X player doing X attack he is not going to fall for it. Another reason is for new players that say "What about if other people see this list" Such as kids wanting to "Git gud" At the end of they day: They ALL agree that characters do better against some then others but it's up to the SKILL. So that means the worse character needs a good attack OR a good player.

I meant like tiers as in equal skill level. You could be a cloud player going against zero's jiggs and he'd probably still beat you.

Why does that annoy you? If anything, it should make you happy if the person plays characters that are rarely seen instead of those that have proven to get good results. But if someone plays a character like Mario, Cloud, Bayonetta, etc. and says that tiers don't exist, then yeah...I'd get annoyed too :P

Idk honestly, these kinda things just annoy me for some reason

Plasmaboy The concept of tier lists annoy me because they're so opinionated, jaded, and result in people picking characters based on others' opinions. Some characters have an easier time winning than others, yes, but imagine if there was a competitive fighting game where a tier list was deliberately not created to see how the meta game would differ from those that have widely accepted tier lists. I guarantee you there would be more character diversity because people are sheep and wouldn't know what to do without their shepherd guiding their every decision. So this is pessimistic to the one of the highest degrees, but tell me: would you see a difference?

Kirby is top tier in Smash 64!

nah he just has alot of jank. but once u learn how to avoid all that jank kirby isnt all that great.

Nah, brawl Kirby is mid tier, smash 4 Kirby has proven consistently to be an abysmal character in the smash 4 meta. And now in Ultimate, he's the worst character in the game 😐

No.

Its simple, just look up 2016 eve ruleset. Or I could tell you, if you still don't understand.

+Antehman 0 tell me plz. That would be very helpful, if I could take a bit of ur time.

JTails did an amazing video about that a few weeks ago. Consider looking that up.

alrighty here's the breakdown. this is the ruleset used by most tournaments now: Starter Stages: Smashville, Final Destination, Battlefield, Town & City, Lylat Cruise Counterpick Stages: Duck Hunt, Dreamland Game 1: both players choose their character at the same time. players then play rock paper scissors to start stage striking. the winner strikes 1 stage (starter stages only), the loser strikes two stages, and then the winner picks one of the two remaining starter stages to play on. alternatively, both players can just agree to play on a stage if they don't feel like striking (usually smashville) Game 2: the winner of game 1 bans a stage, and the loser of game 1 picks any of the remaining stages to play on (starter or counterpick). the winner of game 1 chooses a character first, and then the loser chooses. this gives the loser the option of character-counterpicking if they want. Game 3+: the same rules as Game 2, except there is a rule that is often used called "Dave's Stupid Rule". this rule says that you cannot counterpick someone to a stage that you won on previously. so, let's say on game 1, you win on smashville. on game 2, you lose. so, this means on game 3, you *cannot* take your opponent to smashville even if they do not ban it, because you already won a game on it. if you want, you can also do a "double-blind pick" for game 1, where both players tell a third party which character they're going to pick beforehand to ensure their opponent can't counterpick them game 1. it's kinda complicated but after a couple tournaments it becomes easy to remember. if you want to get the hang of it, i recommend playing on Anther's Ladder (google it). it's a wifi ladder that uses tournament rules for ranked matches, and it automates the whole system for you. if you play on anthers for awhile, you'll get familiar with the system.

***** thanks man. really helpful!

yup those characters are so good. not bad choices when wanting to pick a main!

*Main You have one main, any other characters are secondarys/counterpicks/pockets

Mootoo=main Killager=secondary

I am in.

I'm in!

thas what she said

thats sad

lol

lol amen to that

Dantiel Barbosa that would a casual would say

TheWaffleState yes it’s a fellow waffle!

You literally just copied a comment above dude

THEN HOW CARS WALK

*_-Cars Don’t Walk-_*

gandir42343 Crass role u idiet.

tears don't exist

Woops, fixed.

82$

Its nerf or nothin.

Better nerf genji

I'm sorry

im liking his new tier list so far

Great answer bro! :)

kirby

It's actually Kirby. And some lists he is above Bowser.

I'd buy Pichu DLC.

If there was a Fox clone that did significantly more damage on his kill moves (and more knockback due to KBG), but took self-damage equal to the difference in damage each time he used one of those moves, successful or not, would Fox-clone be better than Fox? Let's say for example that each of Fox-clone's kill moves was adjusted to kill at half the damage required of Fox.

+0xFFF1 Probably not, if said Fox clone was also easier to kill, had weaker non-kill moves, had less range, had their kill moves made escapable via SDI, had combo moves removed due to change in angle, had gimping moves modified into non-gimping ones, had more ending lag on side B, had no hitbox and lower range and speed on up B, and had a shine that had a less useful knockback angle and could be SDI'd out of. Now take those changes, remove the whole "significantly more damage on kill moves", apply them to Pikachu, and you've got Pichu. Yes, if Pichu actually have the recoil mechanic because its kill moves _were_ made more powerful and had less of Pikachu's useful tools modified into less useful ones, then it'd probably not be only slightly above Kirby. But the thing is ... Pichu really doesn't give up much of Pikachu's advantages for any of its own. It's just basically a worse version of Pikachu with some boons that you can count on one hand.

hehe ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Everyone plays Sheik but everyone also hates her.

If that were the case, Sonic and Rosa would be bottom tier, lol.

Tiers = Tool for people skilled enough to play in tournaments to know which character will give them the best chance of winning tournament matches and, in turn, more money.

DrCoeloCephalo I know that, I was just joking, but I have actually seen people use tiers to shit on characters they hate.

Yeah pretty much...Izaw was able to beat Abodongo's Mewtwo using Link! lol

That's sad because I loved seeing Mewtwo finally reach the top. The strongest pokémon is now truly the strongest pokémon. Sadly, not for long...

Beating a top player in friendlies doesn't really mean much. There''s no pressure of an audience nor the motivation of tourney money/award so we can't assume Abadango was playing optimally

Alfred Grant Well...it was a money match.

i disagree. mewtwo has an amazing moveset imo

Listen you...

shes so good Kappa

I don't understand why people think jigglypuff sucks, although I don't main her, I know she has amazing air game, and rest is an amazing move. Besides weight, I don't see a problem.

yeah, her air game is so good, as seen with hungrybox at evo this year. even though people are salty, I'm still glad a character got its much needed representation.

he is probably talking smash 4 not melee and if you are smash 4 she dies to early, rest can't be combo'd into reliably ,it kills at a resonable percent (aka 50 thats bad for rests end lag )and horrible hit box that can't even be combo'd into anymore ,slow ground game , horrible grab ,extremely bad match ups against sword characters and top tiers

Probably him, Sheik, or Mario currently. Maaaaaybe Cloud, but he's dropped off hard lately.

+Evello37 No way sheik is the best. Probably Mario because of results

Dantiel Barbosa Why not Sheik? She has few bad MU's, two top 10 players, and in terms of overall tournament results she is surpassed only by Diddy. She also has a lot of tech and optimization that could make her even better, since current Sheik mains still flub her tricky stuff often and SD a lot. Mario has had great results with Ally and ANTi, but it looks like ZeRo's Diddy is catching Ally fast, and ANTi had to actually switch off Mario to beat Zinoto. And beyond those two, Mario's overall results can't compete with Diddy and Sheik.

Mario's results this year are waaaay better than Sheik or Diddy. A character like shiek that struggles THAT MUCH to get a kill cant be the best in the game. Also without VoiD or MrR...she would not be getting top 8 placements (there wasnt a sheik in top 8 in shine2016) Characters that have won major Tournaments so far this year (after 1.1.5) are Mewtwo Mario (3times) Rosalina ZsS...thats it Sheik is a good character but both VoiD and MrR are trying new characters for a reason...sheik is not that good. All of her matches...her oponent lives to like 190% which means max rage and characters like ZsS, Mario, Cloud and ryu (common characters in the meta) love rage. Sheik is top 3 at the very best

Evello37 also please do not count results prior to the nerfs cuz thats back when sheik was the best, not anymore

Yep

Congrats on being first