How does Luck affect Smash? (MSC Special) 

LOL

Thought the same thing LOL

Oh b o y

Yup

Definitely came here to say this

Ourselves haha

He ain't unfair though. According to these classifications he's unreactable at worst and mostly just reactable.

@alsimard His side special isn't even RNG so idk what you're talking about? And the down B displays the spells before they're executed so they clearly fall into the reactable RNG category.

@@marzipancutter8144 I don't really mind most of down B's moves, but my two biggest problems is hocus pocus (a completely random move that has a potential for being both unfair for the opponent as well as the player, completely undermining any skill to a literal slot machine), and critical hits (smash attacks unlike misfire is lot less punishable and is used so consistently given how much it is needed to even take stocks if magic is not an option). Down B is fine in my opinion simply because of how fair it tends to be in how you can manipulate RNG in your favor. The whack line has a higher chance of KO opponents with higher damage, magic burst clears out MP, with more MP the more effective the attack becomes, zoom having a higher chance of appearing near blast zones and where you land has varying tunes prior to reaching to top screen, no spells will appear twice in each list screen, and heals are limited and can be used up to free up space for better RNG. In my opinion, the amount of RNG Hero has is overkill, Hocus pocus is the slot machine that can easily force an opponent to lose a stock quickly with very little warning as it can forcing the player to basically get kill itself. As for criticals, Hero's smash attacks are decent as they should be, but adding a potential to kill opponents at 20% from ths middle of the stage is not what anyone would call fair especially on how it would only be critical when it lands their attack, smash attacks are supposed to be made as some form of strong finishers, but adding twice the power to that said attack is ridiculous especially because of the fact that it's a smash attack, of course it's going to be used a lot, it's a main source of damage other than magic attacks.

@@manuelmontoya8839 I also dislike the crits on Smash attacks, but not because they are random, but because They don't have any significant risk to counteract the statistically higher reward. It's like G&Ws Hammer would only throw 6 and 9, the only outcomes are "good" and "better". Hammer always needs a 1 to balance itself, and I believe Hero's Smash attacks need an effect similar to 1 itself. Basically a "MISS". (BTW if you think of these Smash attacks as a Main damage source in neutral, it's not. They have little range and some start up, unless you hard read your opponent you aren't going to get far with these. His main non Magic neutral tool is zoning with fair/bair) I agree with how the down B being weighted makes it a lot less random than people give it credit for. I've usually had success with expecting every possible outcome at once (which I think is what makes the RNG exciting in the first place), although from what I've read people don't normally seem to be able to do that As for HOCUS POCUS, there's no effect that just deletes enemy stocks off of luck. You can only get other moves, a lot of negative effects some of which actually delete Heros own stock, or a limited time buff that is really strong, but that they have to make use of and that is reactable. I wouldn't call it killing Hero itself bad though, because all they have to do to not die to it is not use it. Otherwise it's their own fault. The buffs, especially Mushroom, are very difficult to deal with, so they have to be camped out, but it's not like we wouldn't find any counterplay if we actually sat down to think of one.

Chakra Wielder For real

"Star KOs are annoying" Now you know the Jiggs Melee scene

yeah but jiggs rest in melee its pretty much instakill at almost any% in smash 4 its nerfed as FUCK so it really makes no sense for the poor puff

Chakra Wielder don't u mean a clod 😏

XD peridot reference

Fire Emblem reference xD

despite this it is point for point the least useful stat

conan1412 Indeed. In Fire Emblem games with a custom Avatar, I always make his/her worst stat Luck.

+Xavi That depends in my case, if the avatar will be a magic base unit I make strength his/her worst state, and the other way around if he/she will be a melee (no pun intended) base unit.

it sometimes helps skill procs and increases accuracy.

...is this possible?

Eddie The Internet Pacifist snrk Im not sure

Lucas maybe with vision sliding

Unsang alright..

+Eddie The Internet Pacifist I wish I saved the replay but yes. When I got my cousins and uncles to play, my unc playing Shulk counter my unc playing Zard after he used a dash attack. Everyone else just so happened to be behind the two and he took use all out. Now let me just say that everyone except my unc playin Zard was at 0-10%, he himself being at 43%. I say that deserves stupidest moment in Sm4sh.

They fixed it with making it happen more often if % are low

@@widdysmm2655 they fixed it by having the last stock always blastzone kill instead of star KO now in Ultimate

@@yellowlemonPenguin That's not true. Star KOs can still occur if you are buried, frozen, or killed by Bowser's Down B, and screen KOs can occur regardless of status. You just need to be within the percentage range where a screen KO can occur.

Rex T 😂

Yeah and play Mega Man 3 and go to a boss battle.

I've never seen the competitive Mario Party...

Play Ultimate Hero now

don't forget competitive pokemon

you wouldn't have any more draws. They'd have to cross the blastline at the EXACT same time, and on top of it having to be sort of a DBZ moment, it'd be an extremely unlikely to occur.

It _is_ really obvious, and it's ridiculous that it doesn't actually work that way.

better solution imo is to have screen hit and star ko last the exact same amount of time and have star ko/screen split always occur off the top except at 1 minute or less in timed stock matches or time mode safe rest for jigglypuff, still characteristic of the series but doesn't make characters rely on rng for safe vertical kills and prevents stalling to win also prevents characters from surviving at like 0:02 seconds or something by getting a lucky vertical ko type

Matthew Perry That would be great. And if you finish a final stock with a Screen KO the ending screen would be their character face planted on the screen 👌🏾

Ethanial Graham Seems needlessly complicated. Plus, there's still the matter of a character dying off the bottom before their opponent just because they got a special KO. I've seen it happen before.

Juckle oh god pls no

tfw you find a star in a random block

Mario party PTSD?

What about mario party Ds horrible rng...

the luck-based mini games remains in my nightmares

Tips fadora

RESPECT DUDE

Me: it's not that bad. Hero: if don't get over here as soon as the match starts I'm getting accelerate, and going to rush you down. And if you camp enjoy me farming for oomph. And even if you do approach prepare to get thwacked at 0. I might go easy on you and magic burst at the ledge. But one thing is for certain I have perfected the crit smash attack special input.

BuT cRiT dOeSn'T hAvE a SpEcIal iNpUt

If he gave a move for that, he'd call it the Falcon Flop. 1/10 would not use.

a name* not a move. Now I feel like an idiot.

Boruto Dog lol

Oh my

My opponent dodged to of my 9's (Mr. Game And Watch) in a row.

My sister hit a g&w 9 on my shield and then immediately hit another one and broke it

I ko'd my opponent with up B, but he starres, and I fell i free fall causing me to lose the match even though I ko'd him first.

Except that that is neither a solution to Jiggs' rest safety, nor is it any easier to implement than a solution to the other examples.

Amones-Ray rest isn't supposed to be safe. And implementing is simple code you just set up the blast zone to remove stocks at the same time it begins the animations. And if you're worried about "game" you trigger that after the animation like normal.

ItsATrap Rest is supposed to be risky because you're fucked if you miss and safe if you hit, not shit because you're fucked if you miss and fucked 33% of the time if you hit. And yeah, it's simple code just like every single one of those problems' solutions, so why call that one in particular an "easy fix"?

Amones-Ray if you wanted you could also tie launch velocity when entering the blast zone to your ko animation. Under 70 normal ko 71-149 star ko 150+ screen ko

fuck off

luck

He has answered this multiple times. He just chose it for practically no reason.

Shwabzie because Kirby is the best and cutest

It's because he grew up with Kirby.

Kryo *plays Yogg-Saron with a maniacal laugh after casting fifteen spells*

What happened?

Kryo Tfw you have been playing hearthstone for over 8 months and still lose to a fresh brand spankin new player... FeelsBadMan

Fun and interactive LUL

Ginnungagap AGGRO SHAMANS NUUUUH

Andreas S. you just can't be mad when you get 9'd

+Ben Bibel ive ended so many careers with that d throw to 9 lolol

+Ben Bibel ive hit lots of number 1's and gotten bodied also hahah

Andreas S. luck is random

Sorry if i messed up a bit but I'm no american and my english is at most nearly average

Foxocommand o Exactly! but its not even just with tilts. some aerials will do it and possibly smash attacks. obviously only at very low percents. im 100% certain Ike's fair and Palutena's bair can do this, for example.

you mean jab locking? that's not random, most of them stop at certain percents.

Mau P No, it sounds improbable but its actually true. If you have the time, prove it for yourself. Some character's moves (like Palutena's bair) will trip on hit. Only at very low percents with no true knockback.

all moves with a sakurai angle (361°) have a slight chance of tripping opponents. this includes some aerials and most Ftilts. When it stops tripping is determined by when the attack stops sliding the opponent across the ground, and starts launching them in the air. hope this clears it up a bit

marshie picotte Thank you!

So basically you went from logic to the stupidest argument i've ever heard. Congratulations, you played yourself.

*Laughs in Soldier*

Critical shit

Yeah and when you get 3 critted in a row dont come crying P/s im not saying we should remove the crit system

Well, that aged well...

@@lknight9104 yup. Don't mind me dying at 30 because I decided play zelda, and punish hero down smashing phantom only for him to crit phantom extend the hitbox and duration of the attack interrupting my punish with the huge body centered hitbox of downsmash killing me and sending the Phantom into a new kind of shadow realm.

Lag, or I'll keep doing the same thing over and over but it's going to take you 2 minutes to take a stock by exploiting it while only 30 seconds if it works for me.

I meet them radomly, thanks to the RNG.

Tim W.

This needs more likes.

Well spoken

this needs less likes

Luck is fine most of the time. However, the random tripping in "Brawl" was just bad for the metagame, and that's what made the game unbalanced, and it even died because of it. Now, onto the randomness on those top KOs in "Smash 4"... In my opinion, they're the biggest problem. After Jigglypuff scores a KO with Rest, there's a chance that it'll get either severely punished or revenge KO'd because the top KO was a Blast KO. Jigglypuff can also score a KO with Rest off-stage, but there's a chance that it'll get KO'd first because the top KO was a Star KO/Screen KO. Same with Ness, as he can score a KO with PK Thunder 2 off-stage, but get screwed over if the top KO is a Star KO/Screen KO. And it's not just those characters, it's others too. This kind of randomness is very bad for the metagame, especially in last stock situations. In my opinion, Star KOs/Screen KOs should only occur for on-stage moves and upward Blast KOs should only occur for off-stage moves, even on Training Mode. That way, there would be no unfair wins or losses, as well as unfair punishes, and the matches would go much more smoother, even if it isn't 100% perfect. This idea should be in another "Smash" game for the Nintendo Switch, whether it's an enhanced port of "Smash 4" or not. For everything else (except the random untechable spin animation at 100% damage or more) that involves luck, they're totally fine by me.

Star/Screen Ko`s reason to be is fairly simple : dynamism and lightheartedness,. in a multiplayer match with more than 2 fighters more often than not there`s accidents that kill multiple characters simultaneously, if all of them get an instant KO It would be monotone after a while,but mixing 3 types of KOs at random gives a minor visual gimmick more variety and adds to the funny and slapstick nature of the game. check out Maximilian`s Hype & Rage videos regarding smash bros 8 players smash to see what im talking about. if this issue still bothers someone, Umbra Clock Tower dont have star or screen KOs, only instant KOs, and dont have major stage hazards either.

BertThePig mine would be Rosalina

Thanks for the answer, My Smash Corner!

LOL

BertThePig Diddy kong

BertThePig def game and watch

TheAres1999 yep

Underrated comment.

@@brachmindunsparce6044 No, that was a shit comment that misses the point on purpose to piss people off. Here's an underrated comment: have the option to turn off any rng. Casuals get their fun surprises, competitive players get to play competitively without the fear of rng fucking them over.

@@L337playing Not all rng. Sometimes it can be a win con. In the context of, per say,Pokemon, a move with a 30% chance to burn is important to competitive because it is used with skill, while still having random calculations to balance the strength of it. You probably can't rng an entire game by spamming the randomness move. Gameandwatch would be useless without lucky 9. Misfire is important as a tool for Luigi.

@@brachmindunsparce6044Yes, all rng needs to be switchable. What's your point? They're sometimes a win condition? That's what rng does... so what? There is absolutely no reason to NOT give you the option to disable rng based moves in a game series like smash, which could always be played competitively *or* casually. If your character relies so heavily on rng as you say they do (which is wrong btw), your character is flawed. How is it fair that Villager can't rely on his uair or dair? How is it fair that sometimes, Luigi just gets a "get out of jail" free card for his side b? How is it fair that G&W can just randomly get a one hit kill move for no reason? Some games you can't play competitively without a random factor, but that doesn't mean it's ok to leave it in *this* series. Ultimate has 76 characters, about five of which have rng based moves - Luigi, G&W, Peach/Daisy and Villager - let me know if I missed any. Only around 6% of all fighters use rng based moves and the rng moves are usually just a fraction of their overall move set. You can very easily remove these random factors and you wouldn't damage the fighters' overall performance. A fighting game shouldn't use any rng at all, it should only be about pure skill in the form of tech skill, knowledge of the game, and predicting/reacting to your opponent's moves. The worst part for me is how indecisive Sakurai seems to be, like how he removed the randomness of the Pikmin or Peach's side smash, but then for whatever reason adds rng to Villager's uair and dair. Now with Ultimate, he allows us to turn off stage hazards, something I always wanted, but then he completely ignores the unaddressed rng that FEW characters still have. Why is it so much to ask to have the option for consistency in a competitive setting?

@@L337playing Why should there be a toggle just to Nerf some characters? An Rng move doesn't hurt the experience or meta. Lucky 9 and Misfire aren't reliable enough to be broken. Small Rng that doesn't break the game doesn't need nerfing. They especially don't need a dedicated switches. Since they alter the actual battles, you'd need to put them in custom smash, which is still unnecessary. It's either a patch or it stays. No Rng toggle because a mid tier gets a sometimes strong move.

1 minute, mii.

same except i played a millisecond longer

ShiroFrenzy I've been playing for 2 years, and my favorite character is Jigglypuff.

Playing since 4 3ds released, my favs are bowser jr and game & watch

Last serious VGC set I played. I got paralyzed 7-8 times in a row. Where, any time I would've moved, I would've won. This was game 2, and it was disheartening. Game 3 was the same story. I got paralyzed 5 times in a row, and couldn't even do anything. I decided to quit Pokemon that day.

Kyle CH Yeah, Pokemon is a very stupid game. I sadly made the mistake of loving it.

my mans espeon! yeah i dont play mons anymore either this is busken btw

Chess has lots of problems too. One major one being that if both players are very good the person who goes first has a huge advantage. And even the better version of it, Shogi has the same problem. I think the closest thing to no rng whatsoever is starcraft. But life already has rng. And starcraft can't fix that. (tournament setups can come close.) Just like smash. Also realistically speaking some of smashs buttons are just downright fucked up, but at some random points they work. Maybe thats just a you gotta grind that part of the game no one uses but realistically it just annoys people that arent people playing to win but to relax and get better it just bothers the shit out of them. And if you're not playing for fun that random button on the select screen becomes mighty useful. Which is all rng.

BobbyFischer0000 But can you check mate your opponent and then he just gets a 6.3% roll and critical hits your queen? Cus that happens in Pokemon. Chess is used by us Pokemon players as the least RNG possible, full out strategy and outplaying your opponent. It is how we usually claim to want to play VGC (pro tip: we just find a Prankster pokemon with Swagger and Thunder Wave and hope for the best)

Oh hey you do diepio stuff too. My fav Pokemon is Latios.

he doesn't give a fuck about your favorite pokemon

thanks

Hakamo-o.

Or even higher! RETURN PUFF TO MELEE GLORY 2018!!

Or maybe every move is shield.

Right?! Fuck you Stygian Zinogre...

Cosmic Poptart yeah specially the gems ugh

Goggleman7 half of the time, i get the plates and gems unintentionally. and then when i want it, i dont get it this game kills me sometimes

I have a personal vendetta against Stygian Zinogre. I had to grind him so much before I got gems. While when I was play online, everyone in my party was getting them frequently. I was salty af, man. Never again.

Goggleman7 lmao hard times for hunters i particularly got fucked over trying to get a rathalos plate for my weapon. took me 30 tries soloing it to get one i will never forgive what the game did to me that time

Izandai It's still very fast, and shields aren't necessarily instant. Plus, the Luigi's opponent may want to go for a separate punishment that is not a shield, and then screw himself over because the Luigi got a misfire, which surpassed his punishment.

im pretty sure every 1 fighting a luigi doesnt just assume every missile is gunna misfire and certain characters dont have the speed or moveset to take the risk of letting him get away for free bcuz they wanna hold shield

they are only reactable in sm4sh. in melee and brawl they came out 2 fast to be reactable. I secondary luigi, so I think I can speak in the awkward sidekick's favor

Thing is, even if you can't react to misfire, regular Green Missile is definitely slow enough to react to. So when Luigi starts the Green Missile animation you can go in shield, and when it's not misfire you can react and punish.

+ViciousViridian That actually happened to me at a tourney the other day. It is extremely unpredictable, especially if you are going for a punish.

Geez, I wish more people would think like you. I have people I know who complain and bitch about everything...

Me too. The world feels annoying to me at times for that reason. Too many people complaining and not many actually searching for solutions instead...

Ban Mr.Game&Watch and Luigi 2016 :V

its useless trying to remove all the luck factors, after all, luck have been a distinctive trait in the series since the beginning. you can minimize it tho, and stop worrying about getting screwed up by it and be more concerned about winning the match.

There's modding... We can make it so that G&W always gets an 8 or 6

Random crits are fair and balanced.

@@Galaxia_EX u never truly know what any opponent will do at any time, that's why "reading" is such an important skill, and reading is very important when fighting a hero. A mini mindgame could and should be played every time the heroes menu opens crits are still bs

Brendan Hughes Well, I have several I'd change, but I'll only say a few. Jiggs and Ganon should be buffed. Bayonetta should be nerfed by an actually notable degree (mostly all forms of side special). Kirby's dair should be nerfed.

Jayden Smith Why should Bayonetta be nerfed? She's not even top tier

SupermarioSteel There are a couple more changes I think are needed to further balance the competitive scene and the variety of viable characters. My list is of things I've seen that are most notable. Bayo most likely has more combos (maybe Ryu, actually) and quicker, easier, and more unavoidable zero-deaths than the rest of the Smash 4 roster. Her side special basically starts and/or continues some of her greatest combos in her arsenal. I think at least one thing about it should be nerfed, whether it's the midair, diagonally downward, or grounded kick. Personally, I think a damage drop and/or end lag increase is necessary for at least one or two of the forms, depending on how affective it was at it's job of nerfing what many say is a broken and cheap character.

ummm who told u that she isnt top tier???????? salem pink fresh saj r they not top players?????

DOCTOR W Yeah really. I've seen many videos of competitive Bayo players that have stomped just about any other fighter. It's ridiculous. She may not be first tier but she has so many results that say otherwise. I don't want her to be a goddess, just a witch.