There is some special case where you have to use registered ECC memory: registered ECC memory sticks can have higher density than non-buffered ones. There are 16GB sticks of DDR3 memory, but only in registered ECC form. If you have a high core count machine that you intend to run a bunch of VMs on (like LTT's 10-gamer-one-PC rig) you may have to use those high density memory modules so each VM still have enough dedicated RAM
Im going in ddr3! Why? Because same with consoles "Best games and games that use the best way all the resources the console have are created when the console is older and have some years on the market" So if you wanna buy best ddr4 ram you will pay 6k$ for for example 8x Balistix Max And for best ddr3 you will pay only 500$ AND im 100% sure if you will buy best ddr4 now then in like 5years there gonna be much better for ddr4 than this and these Crucial Balistix Max gonna cost 2/10 the price And for ddr3 still not much gonna change So the price / performance is ddr3 The price/more price in the future is ddr4
@@hammyboigaming904 im actually going in cheap DDR5 ram and an i3 12Gen cpu because of low power cores feature, also 12VO speced motherboard it will be, and an Titanium powersupply.
ThioJoe Luckily I haven't got a virus on my pc for more than an year already. But I'm getting blue screens frequently because of the video card driver crashing while PUBG is running.
Thanks ThioJoe for this video. I'm learning how to put a server together, and your tutorial on ECC memory was very helpful. Your speech was clear, and you showed a certain mastery of your craft.
It's not just the motherboard, but the CPU has to support ECC too, and a lot of consumer CPUs like the i5 and i7 don't. Some i3's and Pentiums do though, you have to check Intel's spec page.
the fun part about knowing how computers work is that you get smart enough to figure that all processors are made up of nano-meter sized transistors. they are gates of electrical flow. there are "and-gates" and "or-gates." depending on whats triggering the signal, whether it should be a 1 or a 0, the CPU stores the data in the Random Accessible Memory Module for it to run programs and more. the data/bits are stored in the hard drive first then the ram. correct me if im wrong with anything.
@@HermanWillems Same. I have a Colorful C.H81A-BTC V20 motherboard & am thinking on putting in a Intel Xeon E3-1226 V3 with 2x16GB DDR 1600MHz ECC RAM though I have no idea if the board would support the RAMs. 🤔😕
Crashes due to memory corruption are one issue for which you want ECC memory, but that really misses a very important, if not the most important reason for using ECC memory: corruption of 'in-transit' data. Changing a few bytes of some spreadsheet or such 'in memory' won't crash your computer, and will initially go unnoticed in many cases, but will end up corrupting your data when saving the file regardless. That is a much more important reason for using ECC memory.
As I understand parity and ECC ram, I do not think, that a parity drive can save you from data corruption caused by a flipped bit. If the server/filesystem doesn‘t know what the data is supposed to be like, it is not going to check or correct the error. So for NAS use, even though in the consumer market in cheaper models it seems to always be missing, I guess it‘s best to have ECC ram. Great explanations in this video!
3D render dude here, FWIW, we render in image sequences for this very reason. If it crashes, we pick up at the frame where it crashed. But that's kind of besides the point that it would be preferable that it didn't crash at all, lol.
sometimes constructing the words in regular language is really hard. your little sister will know when she grows up and she will definitely let you know.
I got a dell business computer for my boss that has ECC. It would be roughly 3-4 times the cost, but they had a sale, and I got it closer to 2x the price. But they can easily hit 10x the cost if you aren't careful! A Zeon chip, and Quadro card will run you way up
The example you gave involved single-bit parity bits representing odd or even. This only works with very small amounts of data, and also does not facilitate any means of actually correcting the data. Instead, it only facilitates an ACK/NACK response (acknowledge receipt of correct data, or not acknowledge). In the case of a NACK, it renews the request for that data. This is too slow to be practical. It is for this reason that ECC memory in computers like the iMac Pro generate a 7-bit code for every 64 bits of data by using non-binary, cyclic error-correcting code. When the computer reads the 64 bits, it regenerates this code, then compares it to the one stored on the memory chip. If they don't match, the code enables the algorithm to actually find and fix the problem. On the iMac Pro, the cost in terms of performance is actually only about 1%, so this happens very fast.
Memory errors occur for a variety of reasons. An SEU (Single Event Upset) flips a single bit. This is usually caused by radiation from the sun, gamma rays, naturally occurring isotopes emitting alpha particles, variances in magnetic field, Electromagnetic Interference (what made your old TV get snowy when you ran the vacuum cleaner), fluctuations in electric flow (trying spending $8 on a voltometer and plug it into your outlet and you will see how much your voltage varies-- many good UPSs include noise filters and automatic voltage regulators that will supply clean power to your computer, which helps tremendously), etc. Experts estimate this happens between 2,000-6,000 times per Gigabyte of throughput, or about 0.00055789354% of the time.
Better examples of reasons you would want ECC memory (people that purchase iMac Pros, for instance) are as follows: if you host a Web Site that takes financial orders for products (if you crash in the middle of the order, you lost the money); you work from home doing medical coding (you don't want the computer to improperly transcribe a medical code); you use your computer to operate medical devices your life depends upon; you use your computer for a home recording studio, particularly if you make money with it (data errors translate to noise in a recording or crashes during long renders); you do video editing (visual or audio noise, or having to re-do long renders), etc. Also, memory errors don't just effect data. Instruction pointers are stored in memory and control where the computer fetches code instructions. Some memory locations are off-limits, because that are part of another virtual address space, or the operating system, or something that is otherwise "roped off" like Eagle Rock at your favorite ski resort. You can't go there. If a bit flips and turns your instruction pointer into a pointer to one of those forbidden areas, you get a blue screen (Windows), or your computer just reboots, or a process crashes, or otherwise bad things happens. ECC memory can prevent this from happening, so your computer is more stable.
I absolutely love this site. Your information is so clear and informative. I have worked with computers for the last 30 years and you have taught me more that I ever knew. I'm amazed that you can explain everything so clear and completely. I love your site
Thanks for the explanation. I was trying to figure out if I should get ECC RAM for computer i’m setting up to pretty much be a dedicated Plex server. It doesn’t sound like ECC is necessary.
One time my computer wasn't booting, so I just did some Google searches and then I started opening crap and putting it back in and eventually it turned on. My RAM was also not being recognised and doing this solved it.
I do a lot of rendering. Sometimes for days. But I don't work in Hollywod lol Also if the computer crashes during the rendering I will only loose a single frame. Because 3D artists almost always give the software the order to render a frame a time and then you combine all the frames into one clip in a editing software. But I'll need to build a ECC system in the future for more reliability. Probably when a new Threadripper comes out that supports DDR5. Great video btw I learned a lot.
Nice. But the binary number you gave would not be the number eight. They use ASCII for that data. So 8 = 00100110 or hex 38H. I know it doesn't matter but I can't help myself. :)
ThioJoe, that was very informative I always wanted to know what ECM does and you explained very well. Keep up the good work and as always I love your videos.
You don't need it on a desktop ? I disagree with this logic - The System OS is continually reading and writing data, registry, disk writes, etc. a single bit flip could be disastrous in some cases!
Yes , it can for sure, ecc memory is not that unpopular, although it's worse performance and cost so much, it can run even crysis remastered at 4k 60fps in a good system
I've a doubt. If you type 8 and while execution flip bite occurs then will the output screen show any other number say 9 or computer will read 8 as 9 in future operations?
I have a Colorful C.H81A-BTC V20 motherboard & am thinking on putting in a Intel Xeon E3-1226 V3 CPU with 2x16GB DDR 1600MHz ECC RAM though I have no idea if the board would support the RAMs. 🤔😶😕😞
extracting large data from rar files sometimes can frustated with corrupted files, checksum error, volume corrupt if you used normal ram ... but since i use ecc no problem what so ever it a bit slow but 100% no problem what so ever
13:44 ...Or, you know, you can just render the video to a single folder as .png files for every frame, so when it saves frame 725.png, then starts rendering 726.png, does it halfway through and crashes, you can just set it to render from frame 726 and lose 1 frame of work in worst case. Then you just throw all of the frames into a video editor and render all of them into a single video - that would take much less time, and crashing in that case would not lose much time too. ...Although that requires some manual actions, such as drag&dropping all of the frames onto a video editor and clicking the Render button, and it would be hard drive space reliant, but to be honest, why would you buy and assemble a rendering workstation with 10GB HDD or something? lol
I just bought 1x32gb Ram with ECC (didn't know it was server RAM), and tried to use in on my PC, on boot the fans just spun up, but no display, no USB (keybourd/mouse) activity, so my PC is now just a realy weak desktop fan I was curious as to why this one was so cheap, and am looking into a refund, but Is there any way i can get this to work? a DDR3 32gb stick is pretty expensive, and i thought id found a good deal...
Haters out here. he is just briefing out about the ECC memory. if you want to learn in-depth go to a school or read a book about memory. you can't just learn everything in 1 day and definitely not 20 minutes. and YES, PLEASE GROW UP.
GTA V runs perfectly fine actually with less artifacts on my Xeon based Workstation with ECC RAM and GTX1080ti. So does every other game I have ever tried.
There's never just one parity bit, so by looking at the regular bits and the other parity bits, the computer can tell the only number that must be wrong is one of the parity bits and ignore it.
I had Kernal Panic on my Mac Pro2012.But after updating its been ok for around1 to 2 hours with me using it. But I think its my RAM cos after watching this video I found that after checking again I found my RAM3 had ECC ERRORS on Dim Slot 3. So I'm going to also de-Dust my Mac Pro2012 from dust & static & ill remove that bad ram. tho it could be the radiation from the sun or the solar system as u said back then since recently when I'm commenting 2020 sep 12th some science guys found two blackholes joining together. Tho sadly if my errors keep happening ill Gove up my Mac Pro 2012 and use use a normal fast windows-pc and my old macbookpro2012 too many issues with tech recently.
I compare DNA sequences in a computer, a single letter among thousands isn't a big deal, but sometimes I don't compare thousands but I don't know.... 15, this ECC sounds pretty critical to me. The fact that you can't think of anything else but rendering is... sad i guess.
can ECC type RAM be used for regular type motherboards that are not servers? what can use RAM like this if it can be used using a regular type of motherboard? please help Mr.
aren't there still computers today that use non parity memory? one example would be way back for the ibm ps/2 model whatever computers. another would be certain models of apple computers.
What would actually happen if you were to have 3 sticks of ram and 1 stick of stick of ecc? Would it even be possible to make ecc that you could use with regular ram?
When you said that 00111000 was the binary version of 8, I called bullshit because 8 would be 00001000, but then I realized you were using the ASCII representation (probably just googled a text to binary translator). So the number 8 isn't a number in your case, but a character :D
Actually, he was talking about character "8" === binary 00111000 === decimally 56... So it's cleaner to say letter than number 8 --- integer number eight would be represented as 00001000. TLDR; They are very different. To type tree characters 1, 3 and 8 you are going to use 3 times 1 byte = 3 bytes (3 x 8 bits = 24 bits): 00110001, 00110011 and 00111000 If you want to store integer 138 - one byte would be enough (8 bits): 10001010 3 bytes (24 bits) can be written in more than 16 millions different ways (combinations) - so using 3 bytes you can store integer between 0 and 16,777,216 (or if you are using signed variant −8,388,608 to 8,388,607 --- one bit goes for the sign (+/-) - and you have one extra value of negative because there is no -0 +0 difference - smart people decided to put it on the negative side, for pretty complicated reasons)
3 года назад
@@inemanja you can’t talk about characters unless you define encoding. It can be understood from context but makes little sense to explain it that way.
I accidentally bought ddr3 8gb ecc ram for my non ecc pc because it was offered for only 15€ instead of something like 40€ for normal ram and now I apparently have an essentially useless ram stick :/
But, and i never heared this, what if i have a PC that supports 32GB normal ddr3 computer ram (4 x 8GB) and I find a really cheap deal of 32GB (4x8GB) of old ddr3 server ram (unbuffered ecc). Will the ram just work as normal ram?
It’s a year later but I’d suggest watching a real track channel not this crappy shit he doesn’t tell you what you need to know just a bunch of random stuff
