This channel is quickly becoming my favourite shotgun/duck hunting channel … I’m an engineering technologist myself and enjoy your physics/fact based approach to these videos!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide EVERYONE IS GOING TO CHOOSE THE WIDEST PATTERNS TO BRING DOWN AS MANY GEESE AS POSSIBLE IN A SINGLE SHOT SHORT RANGE LONG RANGE 🎯
I have done extensive pattern testing and have found bigger shot (once you go to #2 or bigger) that too much constriction creates inconsistency and blown patterns, since steel doesn’t compress like lead. If you go tighter than a true modified constriction -.020, you’re not gaining anything but barrel pressure which is NOT GOOD. I found the sweet spot for me and almost all of my buddies is the Light Modified constriction (-.015) such as the Carlson Cremator MR for all shots inside of 50. It can be too tight inside of 20 yards. I sometimes use IC when in a small right space but I NEVER go tighter than modified nowadays. Great video 👍🏻
I have that very load here , a couple of boxes and I and with you , I feel Modified did a great job pattern was consistent. You really do a fantastic job on demonstrating these tests. Thankyou so much.
Bel video , complimenti !! Ti seguo dall' Italia , noi qui , rispetto a voi siamo indietro di 10/15 anni .... l' uso del piombo viene sempre più limitato , ma non è ancora vietato totalmente . Sto cercando di imparare l' uso delle munizioni no lead e grazie ai tuoi video faccio progressi ! Grazie per aver inserito le tabelle scritte dove anche chi non capisce perfettamente la lingua parlata velocemente , può comunque capire il contenuto delle prove che fai . Continua così !! E ancora grazie !!
I've always use stock mod for all steel shot. 870 super mag rem. This is after I put my lead gun away ...get them close. #3s for ducks ,bbb and t for geese. Good job sir.
I agree with BBB and T shot. Most of my hunting is pass shooting with a modified choke. Ranges vary from 30 to 65 yards. I tested 3.5 inch Fiochi 1 9/16 T shot at 100 yards. 21 pellets in a 30 inch circle that went through 4 layers of heavy duty cardboard (refrigerator box). I usually load a 2, followed by a BB followed by a BBB (snow geese) or T (honkers). The third shot is to clean up cripples, works really well at long ranges. The sad part is that BBB and T shot are almost impossible to find anymore.
Over decoys, I’ve used Mod and more often Light Mod with great results. In particular, Carlson’s Cremator mid-range is actually a Light Mod, measuring .015, and I’ve taken countless ducks with it. Additionally, my hunting partner damaged the end of his barrel shooting high-speed steel with a full choke. Choke survived, but the barrel didn’t. Ill advised if you ask me. If you can call and use decoys, stick with Lt. Mod or Mod. 3”, #3’s for me, as well. I only switch to #2’s if it’s late in the season and ducks are a little more wary. Good luck! Enjoy your videos…
Glad to see you back. We are starting to get a few geese now on our new farm between a lake and a reservoir - two while shooting crows- and three in the fog'n rain with home loaded BB's (.177) and MODIFIED chokes yesterday. So that may 'B' your next test. I am also going to use a an air rifle web site to find out at what point they become inafectual on geese; as they have a lot to get through -feathers,down,skin flesh and bone. I think 45 yds , if started out at 1200fps: we shall see? I'll let you know.
Hi from Scotland. Excellent informative video. Steel shot is coming here, so a lot of confusion. Thanks and keep up the good work. Looking forward to more videos.
I done shotgun pattern test 25 years ago both Lead and Steel. Winchester Drylok shells; .020” Mod F and T .025” IM BB, 1 and 2 .030 LtFull 3 .040” Full 4 Never shot BBB or 6’s
So glad you mentioned that a full choke at 20 yards is going to make you miss or blow up the bird. Good info for pass shooting geese high up, but who wants to do that. It take no skill
I like your video on shotgunning. They are correct , I tuned in my 835 the hard way with different shells and chokes myself . At the time I had no info available and such . Keep up the good work you are doing a great job 👍
You continue to impress with your real-world and practical tests. It would be interesting to me to see this same test conducted again using #2 steel. Maybe the larger shot of #2 steel will start to interact together and create "bouncing" or "banging" off each other as the shot passes through the choke tube. Perhaps you would experience pattern degradation downrange. Thanks for interesting and helpful videos.
Thank you! I very much want to do that test. I haven't found any good steel loads at #2 to test it with yet. But I'm looking for them. Ideally, it would be HEVI Steel, same load just #2 or even #1.
@@longridgearchery Hi Jared, I really appreciate the offer! My one concern is the variables. I think it would be best to do the test with HEVI Steel #2 and see if the results differ from the #4 of the same brand. Changing brands could change other dynamics since the Fastseel is zinc plated.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide completely understandable. I also have BB as well as the 2. If you think of something you would like to do with those let me know. Keep up the good work.
Great Videos! Have you considered testing buffered shot loads. I reload and one of the things the people who write the reloading data advocate is using buffered shot charges. The buffering is supposed to help steel shot through the choke, keep bismuth pellets from fragmenting, and reduce pellet deformation. Could buying buffered ammunition be one more step to take in improving patterns.
Great Vid. You're comment on how chokes run in various guns, and various shot size is spot on. I shoot mainly 3' or 3.5" BB, cheapest you can get, usually Win SX, or Kent. In my Browning's and Winchester's with DS chokes, I have one extended, ported Briley, Light Mod, Choke that I switch around, for some reason, it patterns BB like nobody's business.
George, I subscribed to o channel today because I enjoy and a value your content. I also just bought a 940 Pro Waterfowl as my first Duck gun. So it’s very helpful to me that you’ve done all this work. This Eason I’ll probably only be able to buy one choke maybe two if I’m lucky. I probably will use some #4 Federal Steel shot this season. That being said would you mind telling me out of all the chokes you’ve tested which you think would be best for 40 yards and under? And which one for 40 and out? Thanks and God bless!🇺🇸🦆
Thanks so much! For that load I would use a modified choke, probably the one that came with the gun for all regular ranges. Then I'd get a carlsons sporting clays extra full for long ranges. Hope you enjoy the shotgun! I sure am!
Another informative video. Wildfowlers have known about choking down on steel for many years. There is a reason that the terror chokes have such a good reputation. I do think that your point about steel running out of energy too quickly is valid for size 4 (which is why I don't use it). But if you bump the size up steel will kill very convincingly at longer ranges. I really do think you should try heavy payloads of steel from a 10 gauge through tight chokes, even if you only do it once. The performance is exceptional even at long range, it just seems to fold Canada geese up much better than the 12
Thanks so much! If I ever get my hands on a 10 gauge, I'll give it a try. But I'm not that big of a guy, 3" shells are about as big as I want to go. I might even experiment with 2 3/4 next season. I price light weight and light recoil. I often carry so much so far into the woods, that every pound matters.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide and that's a fair point, but bear in mind that the extra weight of a 10 also results in less recoil, so don't let that put you off. Good video again, I enjoy watching them.
I can't believe that shooting that thru the full choke did not stop time and end the world... kinda like I been shooting steel tss and heavi shot thru my full coke model 12s for years with absolutely no problems.
Only problems prob came from the overpriced browning a5 pogosticks. That's the only gun that they warn against using tss in unless it's one of the better built japan models.
@The New Hunters Guide I am sorry to sound like a but man but people still talk about the friend of the cousin of thier wife's uncle that had a barrel blow up and honestly I do not believe it. With that being said. I have shot hundreds maybe thousands of rounds of steel thru full and modified barrel model 12s and model 37 ithaca shotguns and have come to the conclusion that for my type of shooting a mod choke works best on everything but turkeys then it's tss out of my 30 inch model 12 heavy duck gun.
I use #4 steel as a swatter load after Boss. I use aftermarket modified for ducks and factory improved cylinder steel #4 for pheasant (nontoxic required). I like the data driven approach to your videos. I also like that you use a tripod for consistent aim. Could you do a comparison of factory screw-in flush chokes vs aftermarket?
Thanks! I already did that video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5aNXitA5Jho.html& The bottom line is sometimes extended chokes are better, sometimes they aren't.
After watching 100’s of videos from a 100 different channels… I’ve narrowed my preference down to 2. George for the in depth scientific approach and Blue Collar Outdoors for a bit of fun and quality info!
Do you think you may have pulled the shot a little with the two chokes that did not pattern well? Great stuff George! God bless you and go get them in the marsh!
Thanks Jeff. My paper is so unbelievably large there is no way to lose some of the pattern. I have to special order it, I've never seen it in a store before lol. I could free hand it and still keep the tightest 30" on the paper every time. It could just be an issue of variability. If I should more shots it might come out differently. But I have some newer videos on the way where the XF continues to perform great with this load so that piece is verified.
Haha, just never reached for one so I never got one. I'm sure I'll pick one up at some point. I rarely even use modified, maybe with BOSS's new buffered load.
Great video! This test was very interesting. Now I know why those extra full chokes are so popular. I've switched to bismuth though and notice IM gives a nice mid range pattern which is what I want.
@@TheNewHuntersGuide In the UK, chokes are graduated from "cylinder", i.e. no choke, through "improved cylinder", "quarter", "half", "three-quarters", and "full", so I am referring to "three-quarters" and "full", as being considered potentially too tight to use steel shot, without damage to the removable chokes or barrels, if fixed choke.
Thanks! Those are Carlsons Sporting Clays chokes. They are rated for lead, steel, bismuth, and tungsten. Modified should have the same standard constriction regardless of material you plan to shoot through it.
Of course I found this vid AFTER getting the Carlson Cremator .700 tube (IM) for LR steel (the installed tubed is .700 also) - I picked up #4 Hevi-steel, Hevi-Hammer & #3 Hevi-Hammer. What are your thoughts about the "mix" level of Bismuth: 30% in Hevi-Steel vs 15% in Hevi-Hammer? I ask because I haven't hunted waterfowl in decades and am getting back into it. FWIW, I got a Beretta A300 in 3" 12ga
Hi Louie, that Cremator will serve you very well I'm sure. So actually HEVI steel has no bismuth in it. It is straight steel. I called HEVI shot to make sure. I have a HEVI Steel vs Hammer test on the way as well. For me the Hammer tends to pattern a little better but terminal performance is negligible. The 15% bismuth isn't enough to matter. But both are good shells out to 40 yards.
Modified is a constriction measurement that is independent of the ammo used. This one is 0.710. It's the same for steel, bismuth and lead. Modified is modified. Where there is variability is in the Short, Med, Long range chokes, like the Cremator chokes. They are made for steel to provide ideal patterns at those ranges.
Great test! Two questions. Are your tests using 2-3/4 or 3” Shells? Given the fact that the modified choke was 75 percent would you say it was a better choice for hunting? That way the pattern would not have been so close at say 25 or 30 yards? Can you test the Carlson Decoy Choke? Is it like the modified choke?
Thanks! This one was 3" shells. The best choke for you would depend on the range you're hunting. But for that range, yea, would probably pick the modified. Which decoy choke are you referring to specifically?
That is a good question, I just got a set of those, a few days ago. Hoping to do some test videos with them next season. You can see their constriction on the website and compare them with others generally speaking. But I haven't shot one yet.@@jimdrechsel3611
I’ve watched Jim Muller talk about chokes, ammo and ballistics. He mentioned that the Benelli I have has a smaller diameter barrel than other shotgun manufacturers and that they shoot tight. Most people over choke benelli shotguns because of that. I noticed more hits with my benelli using improved cylinder only not effective kills outside 25? Yards. I would cripple at 35 and couldn’t finish off cripples when they began to swim away. I’ve seen others with the same issue. Jim Muller talked about how to properly check your gun if it’s shooting at point of aim too before checking pattern to see if you need to adjust your gun to fit. I don’t know how to send the link but you would enjoy watching if you haven’t already. Very technical information that you would seem to enjoy. Not to necessarily buy his chokes but to listen to him talk about ballistics. I learned so much and combined with you. I hope to improve quite a bit by next season. The biggest takeaway from Jim Muller was to use the same ammo load and velocity no matter what so that you develop the skills needed to establish proper leads. Also Slower velocities with bigger payload is much better. Much like you mentioned before about the velocity hype. Much like most hunters I’d like to see if steel can do the job to keep cost down. If not I guess it will have to be the Boss ammo. When I think back I waste more ammunition missing and getting cripples with steel to justify the cost of bismuth. Did you practice with bismuth? Because that would be costly but I would think beneficial. Thanks again for the replies
Thanks so much. Yes, I've seen at 7 installments of Jimmy's MVM podcast interviews. I've talked with him previously at length as well and hope to interview him on my podcast about turkey hunting. I shoot alot of bismuth making these video, but I'd shoot clays with it because its not allowed at the course I go to. But I'd like to. @@jimdrechsel3611
Extended range with bbb shot. Heard its where its at for geese but dont know about that as havin trouble finding a choke that is rated for steel that size and cant find any copper plated steel load used to use for turkey out of my old do everything 18 and change inch winchester 1300 pumpy.
BBB shot isn't even legal in our state lol. At that size, there aren't even enough pellets in the shell to get 100 in 30" circle at any range. I'll take more pattern any day, unless I'm hunting coyotes or something.
I feel it's worth adding that in my gun's owners manual it states that you should NEVER shoot any steel shot through tighter than modified choke. It also states that steel shot larger than #2 should NEVER be shot through tighter than improved cylinder choke. Not following these instructions may lead to barrel swelling or rupturing.
The manual I am quoting is for a Tokarev Bullpup 12 gauge shotgun. Strangely, the manual for my S&W 3 1/2" 12 ga. shotgun doesn't mention these guidelines at all. But, since I use it for goose hunting, and shoot everything from BB to BBB to T shot through it, I installed the Improved Cylinder choke tube after reading this. I still need to go out and pattern my gun with the switch of choke tube.
@@donaldschrade1679 Interesting. We'll I would say always follow your manual and the choke tube manufactures guidelines for safety. Not all barrells are rated for steel, but that does not mean no one should or could use it safely. Same with larger shot.
Just my opinion but it seems like modified chokes are a good all around tube when in doubt. I believe there are better chokes for different situations but a modified will work in most.
Modified is usually the best option. I do alot of tests to find out what the best long range options are because people keep asking for it. But most people don't and shouldn't fixate on long range. Modified for regular hunting is going to be ideal much of the time.
I don’t gotta patern my gun I shoot a Mossberg 940 pro field with boss # 5 and a carlsons sporting clays extra full I think that combo will be the best. A wise duck hunter said it was I saw him on RU-vid.
In your opinion is there really any difference between the sporting clay chokes the waterfowl chokes? I have a .715 sporting clay Carlsons (light modified??). I should be good right?
By and large, if the constriction is the same, the performance will be the same. I got my Carlson's sporting clays chokes to use for waterfowl testing and hunting. Usually they perform identically to the chokes with ducks printed on them. The waterfowl chokes try to simplify things, giving 2 or 3 chokes with defined ranges vs you having to think about CL, IC, LM, M, IM, F, XF. Using sporting clays chokes just takes a little more thinking to pick the right one. They are also better for testing because you can hit all the increments you want.
Thank you!! I admit I still need to pattern test the chokes I do have. Primos Dead Zone, Mossberg Accu choke modified and the long range steel choke that came with my Weatherby Element.
Hi there, I watch all your videos! Quick question - for external choke tubes, do you use tools to tighten it? Or just with hand? I have Carlson external tubes on my SBE3, but it gets a little loose after only shooting a few rounds of trap. So want to know if you tighten it with a tool or not, thanks!
Thanks so much! I often just hand tighten and for many chokes that's enough. But I do keep a choke tool and I'll give it a little extra torque when needed. Be careful not to over tighten as it is possible to really get a choke stuck if you leave it that way over time. In rare cases too much torque could split the barrell but that is very rare. When using the tool make sure you never use anything to get even more leverage. Thanks!
@@TheNewHuntersGuide thank you for the advice - I also took your advice and took my son today to shoot traps after the duck season is over - as you mentioned, it is likely the best investment. I totally agree!
They say not to use steel shot through a full choke because it damages the barrel. I've contacted mossberg and asked them and they said its not a good idea. They say to use ic and modifed only
If the choke is hardened steel able to withstand the shot, it does not place extra stress on the barrel. If the choke is soft steel, as are most stock chokes, and likely many of Mossbergs, then it can't hold up to the shot and upon failure will compromise the barrel. If the barrel is rated to withstand the hardness of steel, then its up to the choke to be rated for the shot size, velocity, and constriction. Not the barrel. However, Mossberg makes an X-factor Full Waterfowl choke. So...
You should have run the test like a proof test. Multiple and very accurate measurements of the choke tube and barrel before and after each test shot. Just because you can not see any deformation of the barrel and choke doesn't mean nothing happened. Be advised all Saami loads 3" and under do not exceed CIP Standard steel loads which is the maximum pressure non steel spoofed guns can shoot in the UK. we do not have High performance steel in this country.
I just subscribed I like your content. So let’s lay it out. If I have a #1 steel pellet that weighs 4 grains and a #4 bismuth pellet that weighs 4 grains. Then I send it at 1350fps the only thing I have changed is it’s size and wind resistance. I would like to see pellets that are closer in weight being used in test. Steel is round bismuth usually isn’t I would like to see if the penetration is close at extended distances to really see if steel can’t kill at extended ranges.
Thanks so much Colt. I am planning some long range testing for the future. I think its well established that Steel can kill at any range you can hit a bird but you just have to keep making the pellets larger until they can't get any larger. I see where you are going with this test idea, but I think the bigger issue is eventually you have to make the pellets so large that you can't throw enough of them in a tight enough pattern to hit the target consistently. Steel #1 and BB shot loose pattern before they lose power. But, as I do my upcoming long range tests, I will try to keep these variable in mind and see if I can shed more light on this question. I just need the pattern to be good enough to hit the ballistics gel a few times lol
@TheNewHuntersGuide if you ever get to testing patternmaster chokes. The decoy/timber is probably the best all/around choke for regular/close range on the market. For steel shot anyway. Interested to see how it would do with a salt creek 1oz. Tss load.
Hello, I am planning to pick up a long range choke for my Winchester SX3 3 inches chamber, i am debating between Patternmaster Code Black duck or Pattern Master Code Black Goose. I need your help. Thank uou
Hi Tom, I've never touched a pattern master before. They have a different philosophy and engineering than most chokes. I don't think I can give you great advice there. Some will depend on what size shot and what material of shot you plan to shoot.
Stock chokes aren't hardened and rated for steel. Thats the main benefit from aftermarket chokes. Also, I've never seen any of those manufactures say their guns aren't rated for that.
Tight (fixed) chokes and big steel shot are a bad combo.... A lot of bulgy barrels to prove that... I've never used screw-in chokes , but this was an interesting video....
I got the same shotgun but damn no way im putting steel through anything that tight as a full or extra full ..this gun cost me 1450 canadian and im not ruining that barel
What prompts you to think that the barrel is somehow in jeopardy? I'm curious. I hadn't considered that. An choke that is not rate for the shot sure, but why the barrel?
I've just done the maths- because we love maths, don't we? ~ NOT! Must admit I got a surprise. Starting at 1200fps they give a massive 16.95ftlbs! At 45yds they are down by 60% ! To 6.7ftlbs approx. So I think the max for reliable penetration is about 50yds: that is a long way.
