Another big flaw with pads (as Dekillsage often finds) is that if one part of the pad breaks or wears out, then it's REALLY hard to fix/replace without just buying a whole new pad. This especially becomes an issue if your favorite pad is a 3rd party pad that went out of print ten years ago
Everyone says "don't play with analog sticks, they're not accurate and its gonna make you drop combos" personally i think that's bullshit, the D-Pad is only better for dashing, everything else can easily be done with the Stick (and it also feels better). So because of that i'd say that Pad controlers are the best
I got a laptop recently and I've been using it to get my fighting game fill while at university, but I can't exactly carry my stick with me so I've been playing on keyboard and it's not as bad as people think, some inputs are harder than others, especially 360s, but it's mostly just a matter of getting used to it, you can definitely play well on keyboard with practice
@Joe Sanders my system for half circles on keyboard, instead of pianoing the back down forward keys, is to release back right before I press forward, if you don't do it the game can easily skip the down input and your half circle won't come out
One thing about leverless controllers i love is how there also the one that is most comfortable for me. Since I have wrist issues I can play the levelers alot longer because there's slot less wrist movements compared to arcade and even pads
Picked one up a fair few years ago since I couldn't afford a stick and was sick of having to go to shoulder buttons for 6 button games and absolutely fell in love with it.
try the retro bit sega saturn pad if the hori ever gives out on you, the dpad is god tier. and it's only 35 bucks for a wireless one. 2.4 ghz and not bluetooth so theres no lag.
I have a Hori arcade stick, my friend built his own only buttons controller like a hitbox. The one thing that we agree is having those big arcade buttons instead of the ones in the pads is awesome 😊
*Gamepad. Joystick.* Seriously, for most people thats the most sensible way to enjoy these games, its what you do for basically everything else, it just makes sense!
Another key thing about the leverless controllers, is that they're super ergonomic. so if you have wrist or finger pain, or joint issues; you may want to consider them
A weird controller idea i had a while back was essentially a stick setup, but replace the stick with a touchpad(or some kind of trackpad?); letting the player essentially draw motion inputs instead of pushing a stick around. I mainly use pad since my fingers kept drifting off the attack buttons when i try to work my keyboard like a leverless, but its an idea that pops into my head every once in a while.
that sounds dope actually, as someone who used to play everything on keyboard with the arrow keys I had a similar thought but with a stylus configuration like in osu. But it would be pretty difficult to implement in practice to be able to recognize specific movements when they’re going to be slightly different every time
@@twixchexmix true. You could probably program the touchpad to be divided into sections(something like the numpad on the keyboard), so the player just has to draw through each section, but who knows how much work that would take.
sound interesting, but the main con I can think of is the lack of tactility. maybe you can do something like the steam controller where you can add haptics, but that would also add complexity
Its always interesting to see this topic crop up every now in then Me personally, I am currently trying to train myself to use a fightstick (Mayflash f101 with Sanwa parts modded in, if anyone wants to ask) cause games like BBTAG and especially Centralfiction and the recent SF6 demo starting to hurt on pad, but since trying these games on stick, its not only more comfortable, but inputs are far easier (only downside I honestly have is that mine feels a little too cramped for my right hand to rest and press buttons. Not unusable, just a bit distracting) ......also the monkey part of my brain just loves pressing them buttons and the loud noise they make. I am a very simple man with simple needs. Sanwa plastic smashing against Sanwa plastic is just cathartic to me
I think the best part of this one was at the end with you doing the song with your voice. XD I do it EVERY TIME so it was a nice surprise to have you joining in.
I play on pad but I use both the d-pad and the analog stick, I constantly switch between them while playing. I prefer the analog stick for diagonals and fluid motions like jumping and quarter circles and I like the d-pad for more complicated and fast inputs like dashing or Dp motion. I don't know why, It's just what's most comfortable for me. The only problem I've faced is that I have a lot of trouble doing a quarter circle back quickly followed by a Dp when facing left but the only character I know of who ever has to do that is Nagoriyuki.
u can use the analog for both, the trick to dp fast is to press forward + quarter circle forward motion. You do not have to use the DP input exclusively mid combo as sometimes it can be mistaken as quarter circle forward move. But if you input forward+quarter circle forward, game usually read it as dp. That is why sometimes while moving forward and you attempt fireballs, sometimes u get DP. The window is a little short but nothing too hard. Will take a a couple tries and youl get used to it
I very much appreciate this topic, as I’m just now getting into Strive (in part due to your channel) and I’m having difficulty finding the fun in controlling my character using the PS4 analog stick. It feels wonky and impractical, so this discussion helps a lot for me. Thanks :)
I uses Keyboard (custom keybind to be like hitbox) and it's an eye opening after using gamepads for fighting games for so long, so many input comes out easier since you don't need to do a full rotation and instead just press direction button for many special move. Since gamepad joystick part is way too small for fighting game move while Sticks, to me, is a bit too big for movement input.
Wait don't you just user the ring finger in regular wasd layout? Like wouldn't hitbox layout just be the same thing but instead of "w" to up you juts bind space bar to up?
Case and point for controller preference and comfort being important: Omega Strikers came out this week. Being impatient I got it on my phone, hated it. Downloaded it on Switch, used my HoriPad and it plays like a dream. For me, I use a HoriPad, PowerA Wireless GameCube, and PS4 controller. Being able to switch between the D-Pad for movement and analog stick for circle motions feels good to me (I still can’t do 632146 on D-Pad consistently). The only downside to pads for me is hitting both R1&R2 at the same time in the heat of a moment. My brother uses stick, having the convenience of each button per finger cannot be downplayed. If I could Frankenstein a d-pad and stick buttons together, that might be my dream controller.
i bought an arcade stick back in 2011 when I got into fighting games, and I LOVED using it. Pressing the giant buttons felt so good. I used some form of a stick all the way up until 2022 when I went to my first in-person tournament and couldn't fit my arcade stick into my baggage with me on the plane. Conveniently, the Snackbox Micro team was at the tournament and had a demo booth. I had been on the fence about switching to leverless, but once I got it in my hands, I fell in love with it. I bought a Snackbox last September and it only took me a week to get used to it. Now, my Snackbox Micro is my favorite controller I've used for fighting games.
The thing that got me into fighting games was Xrd 2 on the PS4. The pad made me feel horrible, but I just learned how to do the quarter and half circle movement, and moved on. Later, I would start Guily Gear Strive on PC and bought a stick at the same time. It was a blast. Made everything so much easier, and I would never regret buying one.
I was hoping he'd mention customs I actually use a fighting commander which is a game pad that has a six button face layout and designed for high comfort and precision. If you're unsure about controllers I cannot recommend it as an option enough
i have tried both the pad and the keyboard, honestly the keyboard feels way more comfortable, as i can have one finger on each button, instead of moving my thumb around. Also, using the analog on the controller feels way better than the pad, i still don't understand why people say that it's worse when it works the same way as arcade sticks (i think)
Even as a casual I hop between controllers depending on the game. I come from a Smash background, so playing competitively on a controller doesn't really bother me much and I tend to use pad when playing Arcsys games. For some reason I can't play Strive or DBFZ with a fight stick, but pretty much everything else I can. I especially like Street Fighter and Tekken on fight stick since they have unique layouts with the 6 button interface in SF and the 1 button per limb in Tekken. For some reason having the buttons laid out like that makes it easier to keep track of for me.
I actually used to have stick at one point (bought Razer Panthera out of curiousity), but after so many times, dashes and 623/421-motions were still bane of my existence so I gave up and sold it to friend who was interested. Such a shame really, because I like concept and novelty of arcade stick, but we just didn't have synergy so to this day I still go with pad.
I use mayflash F500 Elite. Also I'm so glad you said WASD layout over the hitbox style. I want to build a stick with a lever AND a WASD style layout of buttons. One thing it would help with is times in games where I need the right stick. But all in all yeah that is my dream stick I'll get/build one day.
When I first started fighting games I would play with whatever I could get my hands on which at times meant I was playing old emulated games on my Chromebook keyboard. I was able to switch to pad when DBFZ came out, and later switched to stick after having a chance to play MKII on an arcade cabinet. When strive came out I considered getting an all button controller, and eventually came full circle by getting a K28 around the release of DNF Duel. After having used all three types I can definitely say that I like all of them. In the future I may use different controllers for different games/characters, for instance if I were to play Zangief in SF6 I have no intention to even try a 720 on an all button controller.
I remember worrying about getting a fightstick when Strive came out since it would be the first game I'd take seriously. "Fortunately" the Xbox One pad I was using broke at the time so the money I spent replacing it with a Series S controller kinda blocked me out of that option for a while. Turns out I absolutely love using it for 4-5 button games! It was specifically 6 button games giving me a bad feel for it. I got an 8bitdo M30 for 6 button fighters and have been having a good time ever since.
I think you neglected one of the easiest arguments in favour of sticks. To me at least. Guilty Gear's button layout is perfect for pad, because you have 4 main attack buttons, with Dust being a bit more situational, so it being a shoulder button is pretty easy to work into your brain. Especially in +R where it also handles EX moves kinda. But whenever I tried out demos for 6 button fighters like Street Fighter or Skullgirls, the way they ask you to treat R1 and R2 as if they were any other face button I literally just can't get around. It feels unbelievably unintuitive imo
Maybe it's because I grew up using Playstation controllers to play FGs, but personally it's the opposite for me. It feels comfortable to me, to the point that it feels "weird" to not HP and HK with R1 and R2.
I play on controller thumb stick and do special to special cancels with Nagoriyuki so play with what you want to play on whether that be a stick box or Wii Steering Wheel; you can do it!
I play both stick and pad for certain games. games like BBtag, Unist and Tekken 7 I mostly play on pad while SF, Gear and P4AU I play on stick. Both control schemes are a lot of fun
One controller that I saw at my locals was an "Ergobox". Presumably that's the brand name. Basically it's a leverless, but instead of a flat surface, it had a large trapezium-shaped raised part in the middle that's tall enough for you to place your hands on. The buttons were situated on the sloping sides of this raised part. I assume the reasoning for this design is based on the idea that if you just place your hands in front of you as though you were resting them on a keyboard or fighting game controller, but don't put any effort into rotating your hands, your fingers naturally rest in a sort of sloping position that matches the arrangement of the Ergobox's buttons. Therefore, the controller is more ergonomic, as no wrist rotation is required to reach anything.
I'm currently using a DIY arcade stick version 2 which uses Sanwa lever with 3 or 4lb spring (I forgot, but I like it stiff), Crown 202 buttons for 4 buttons on the left, Sanwa OBSF-30 for the 4 buttons on the right, some 3rd party 24mm buttons with 2 of them havubg bright red led, and all of them run using the Zero Delay PCB board all contained in a plastic storage box thing with acrylic as the top. I have to use glove in order to play due to acrylic and exposed screw on the top biting into the skin. Aside from that, it felt really great and feel happy that I switched from pad years ago cause it hurts my left thumb as much as I like my xbox one controller dpad.
I am about 7 months into playing strive, and I still use analog on a switch pro controller that i got almost 4 years ago when smash ultimate came out, and no i do not plan on switching anytime soon if slash plays analog I CAN TO DAMN IT!
ive recently gotten into fighting games this year and went through whole "hmm what controller do i use" i liked keyboard for moving and doing motion inputs but not so much attacking, i liked pad for attacking but couldnt move for the life of me, then a lightbulb turned on: what if i use both? and i have, controller in my right hand and left hand on keyboard. it sounds unorthodox i know but my god is it comfortable, some games dont allow the use of specifically the pad working alongside the keyboard (i.e strive) but i play centralfiction anyway so
I started on a pad then switched to a stick before getting my dad to modify it to have one of those arrow key things. The Odin V2 I think is its name. The reason I switched to stick in the first place is because trying to do ex moves on 3rd Strike felt impossible, especially without an input buffer. I know I could've used a macro but my dumb brain refused to do that for some reason but I'm glad I didn't because now I can't think of playing fighting games without my stick. It's just so much more comfortable for me. I'm planning on commissioning one of my friends to make art for this thing pretty soon.
1:42 I use D-pad for Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur and analog stick for everything else. I do sometimes get DP & fireball inputs messed up but it doesn't happen often enough to really effect my play. I do want to eventually just learn stick someday.
I already decided on hit box and don't regret it. I may have to re-learn the inputs as I took s long break from fighting games, bit I really like the controller, specially as I won't destroy my wrists
5:39 I actually use a xbox gamepad in Tekken and I've found that sliding your thumb over the buttons is really effective for those consecutive inputs that the game demands from you. x+y/y+x you can simply slide your thumb up and down these buttons fairly easily. a+b/b+a same thing, the sliding feels really nice. a+x/x+a/b+y/y+b I stick my thumb out across these buttons, if I need to press a or b first I'll joint my thumb down and then press down with the face of my thumb as if it were doing the worm, if I need to do x or y the face will come down first and then thumb joint. If I need to press any 3 buttons I'll do the first two really quickly and have enough buffer time to press the last given button normally. It's easier to show than explain. I am just far more comfortable on pad besides M&K for shooters it's what I've learned to use really really well.
11:40 Unless you're using American style joysticks, or other similar sticks, there's no need to buy a specialized bag to transport your arcade stick. Not anymore. I have the Link EX-Groove JLF installed in my arcade stick. I can pop the lollipop off the stick in less than a second, shove it in my pocket, shove the stick into any large backpack, and I'm done. I can then put the stick back on when necessary in under a second. This is all done without any tools.
I didn’t know that it was recommend to use a d-pad on a regular controller, I normally use the stick. I also do own an arcade stick but i find it difficult to use. Might try it again soon though and try the d-pad method for my controller
The only real difference between the WASD and and Box styles for leverless is that for WASD, W, (ie:forward) is up and for Box, space (ie:jump) is up. I like space being my jump/up button, it's intuitive to me.
I tend to alternate between pad and arcade stick depending on the game in question, with seemingly no rhyme or reason behind the decision for most of them beyond "has six normals"
i find it extremely funny that he was talking about how the snackbox and keybox fusion could fit in your pocket, so i looked them up, clicked on the first site, then gekko INSTANTLY says "and sold through etsy" i check the site and, sure enough, it was etsy.
So I have two controllers for PC, one is used for any games that aren’t better suited for keyboard, the other is strictly used for fighting games or as player 2. The one for fighting games is a Logitech joypad with the layout similar to PS controllers but with one key difference; the d-pad is a disc with raised cardinals. This is now my best controller for fighting games, but sadly only works on PC (not that its a problem as most if not all my fighting games are on Steam). I barely drop inputs with that thing. I am interested in trying keyboard at some point.
I am a pad player, but I've used the stick before, and one thing I've noticed is that with a stick, you can't dash as fast as you can with hitbox for pad gest saying
She's been out for a while now but could you make a We Need to Talk About Bridget video? No one breaks it down in a concise way for me to understand new characters like you do
I currently use an SGF Zappa, which is leverless and is a local company for me. Genuinely I think leverless is the best for me because of the way my wrist functions with finer movements that stick requires, but I would be lying if I said a certain primal part of my brain doesn’t like the feel of stick. As for why the Zappa, simple. The buttons feel AMAZING. I just wanna keep pressing them
ngl, I have been stuck to a keyboard layout my whole life (never was able to afford a console) and after getting used to motion inputs it was a dream The quick and snappy clack of the keys every time I do a motion input and how satisfying it is to do 236/214 motions completely wins me over, even if i had the opportunity to own a stick, ill probably pass on it until I can just try it for free for a while. also ragequiting is the easiest thing to do if needed XD
For a high quality, "budget friendly" arcade stick, I gotta shout out the Mayflash F500 elite. The elite version has all Sanwa parts, has replaceable art, and costs around 150 bucks. You realistically won't find a cheaper stick with Sanwa parts, just make sure you're looking for the "elite" model.
My best feeling controller is my cabled switch controller, due to the stick being relatively wide, which means I don't have to move it a lot for a full direction, the awful thing is Steam doesn't seem to support it.
20:18 want to add that "getting used to" problem completely disappears if you played a lot of games on pc. There is not that much difference between fps and fighting games on a keyboard
I ended up getting a hitbox, not for SOCD, or clean inputs, but just because it's far far easier on my wrists and fingers than my pads were. Kinda feels shitty when people just make blanket judgements based on the controller you use, but hey, it's the FGC. Pick a zoner and you get called a slur.
I think one thing you didn't bring up in favor of stick is the thing that got _me_ to get one: *A ton of fighting games nowadays are designed with it in mind, or at the very least feel like they are.* I mean seriously, look at something like training mode input displays. I bought Skullgirls long before I had a stick and I was dogshit at it. I was having fun but not a _lot._ Switching from pad to stick immediately and noticably improved my play at it. So it did with Tekken. I'm still dogshit at both, and generally most games I touch, but now I feel like it's a skill issue instead of my control method not being "the correct one." GGXrd I'm a bit worse at with stick but it likely comes down to lack of practice, and Mortal Kombat X is a game that I'm _much_ worse at because that series doesn't have as rich a history of arcade releases, the last one that made it to arcade was MK4 one, and thus is likely made with pad in mind.
The controller I use varies with the console and the game I play. =MvC2 The PS1 Pad / DC Pad. Will use MAS Systems sticks and other sticks. Sticks must be heavy. =Street Fighter 3 Hitbox [To demonstrate that it should not be allowed...] PS1 Pad. Arcade stick for nostalgia. Stick must be heavy. =Street Fighter 2 [All of them...] Hitbox. Will use PS1 Pad, and or Arcade Stick. Stick must usually be heavy. =Street Fighter 4 Hitbox. Will use Pad, and arcade sticks, but they must be heavy. =Street Fighter 5 Hitbox, pad, controller. Varies based on the character. =Street Fighter 6 Hitbox, pad, controller.
I like leverless the most but im considering of using the arcade stick i bought solely because of chipp's input for rekka 1 rekka 2 into kara super as my fingers when doing it on keyboard is doing it too fast that it's giving inaccurate inputs
Hey dude :-) new follower here and I come up with a bit of a question: I’m disabled with joint issues, and pads absolutely do not agree with me! It might be because I’m a complete novice to fighting games (unless you count playing tekken on the ps2 without a clue of what the mechanics were as some past experience), but it absolutely KILLS my right hand to use a pad. Would you say that buying one of the alternatives is a good investment, even if I don’t know if I’ll stick with the hobby? I recently found out a local manufacturer of all sort of arcade goodies and they have been super helpful, if I get any money I’ll probably get something from them! Cheers, love the channel. Picked up GGST in part because of you and in part because I wanted to beat up my roommate in a game, and have been enjoying playing Ramlethal a whole lot.
People that tell you leverless is the best don't know what they're talking about, that's very game specific. The problem comes down to the Capcom being the 800lbs gorilla in the room in terms of visibility while simultaneously having some of the most poorly thought out input shortcuts built into their games. Games that are more persnickety about their inputs or use longer inputs such as full half circles (SFV doesn't have proper half circle inputs for example, you can do them from crouching) suddenly become noticeably harder on leverless.
I also think its game dependent. I learned fighitng games more properly with strive playing on pad, and a couple montsh back bought a leverless to try it out and because I had a frustrating habit of my thumb twitching off fo downback making me get hit by stray lows too often, thinking leverless would fix that. It felt super alien and even when I was able to do all the things I could do on leverless it just felt kinda off. But in street fighter it feels way more natural and I love it for that game. I think because in sfv/6 jumping is a much more commital option so it being a dedicated button feels better whereas for strive with its faster more fluid movement a pad feels easier to use.
I used a stick and moved to a hitbox. To me i found myself jumping way more when i tried to do a super with a stick while the hitbox let me reduce accidental jumps in a huge way. I would recommend people go to stick because its the most universal control scheme while hitbox moving forward will start to feel more and more different with each game. And sticks can be used on more platforms to this day hitboxes still cant be used on ps5 unless youre playing a ps4 version of a game.
This was me with the accidental jumps. in Injustice, Grundy could cancel his Walking Corpse command grab by inputting down back.. and if I accidentally got a jump back then I pretty much lost the game because Grundy literally never wanted to jump away from you 😂
As cool as arcade sticks are, I tried and couldn’t get used to them. Maybe it’s because of the passage of time, but I don’t remember there being a “you have to use arcade sticks to be competitive” thing. I remember it being advised to get stick but not thought to be a requirement.
I recall it but pretty much only with street fighter 4. Plinking, pianoing, and negative edge stuff was much more difficult on pad so I remember it being recommended to play stick.
I've used keyboard for melty and strive bcs it's convinent and intuitive lmao. It's very annoying when I misinput DP in strive but it usually works out. Weird bcs I can concistently do dp inputs mid combo in melty.
