If you get your inspection from Toyota, make sure they also clean the Hybrid Battery cooling filter otherwise it's a mistake you'll pay dearly down the road a year later when your car says the battery needs to be replaced, you discover the filter is completely clogged and you have no way to prove they didn't clean it. How do you know this? don't ask.
YES! I have a 2021 Corolla Hybrid Sedan one order that will get here in Australia in August . Have learned so much from AMD - Latest video on Pre Delivery Service tells me what to check when I pick it up - MAGIC!
When I flew RC planes, we loved lithium because it was lighter and had more capacity. But if u let them discharge to less than 2.77v per cell, they would puff. Also, with heat, they would easily catch fire. Lifetime wise, we couldn't get much years out of one battery pack. On the other hand, the Nimh lasted for years and years no matter how much abuse we gave it but at the sacrifice of weight and less performance.
Different chemistry. RC planes use the most volatile type of lithium cells - high power and lightweight. They are a Lithium Polymer battery sometimes called LiPo s. Cars generally use LMNC or LiFePO4 (the safest but heaviest). RC planes also have 2 other problems - pilots tend to stretch them beyond sensible discharge because you don't want to crash your plane and they also want to recharge the batteries very quickly to keep the plane flying all day.
Nope, in my experience ,NiMH batts are not very good. They are much heavier, are vastly more complex (they need twice as many cells) and have short life. NiMH is the only battery I have had literally explode while on charge, it punched a hole in.my ceiling. There is a reason you do not see many Toyota Priuses around these days, the batteries die and it is too expensive to replace.
@jimgraham6722 I see prius all the time and people get up to 200,000 miles or more out of them. One person reported 300,000. So you going to sit there and say something STUPID like that. Even when a master mechanic in this video said toyota nickel metal hydride batteries were very reliable. You must love saying stupid stuff to mislead people. It is better to be honest or do research before you speak. And good for your ceiling. Has nothing to do with the reliable toyota batteries.
my dad's "Camry LE Hybrid 2018" bought it on August/2018 and now has 250.000 miles because he uses it to do a delivery job. run and nothing happen now. just change the oil every 5 or 6k miles.
I switched 2020 Toyota Corolla Hybrid with 2021 Toyota Corolla Hybrid because of Blind Spot Monitor function in new one. It turned out the the new one has lithium ion battery, as well. Guys, I can tell you that lithium ion battery is the way to go because the car has even better gas mileage. I average 55-65 MPG between months of March-November. During winter, gas mileage goes down by 5 MPG due to heater working more often, but it still gives me around 50 MPG. This is incredible gas savings!
The heater doesn't use battery. It uses the heat from the engine that is circulated to the coolant and circulated to your cabin. And the fan to blow the hot air inside is negligible at best for how much watts it uses. Li-Ion does get worse range in cold or hot environments, its just how it is
I have a 2021 corolla hybrid the battery is lithium ion according to the sticker under the hood,your better mileage is from improvements in the engine and thinner oil.I live in North Dakota winters here are bitter nimh is supposed to be more stable in the cold.My mileage goes from 46 down to 40 in the winter.
@@jonnybravo420 i suppose you are correct in the regard that the engine will force start more often to maintain heat in the coolant, but at the same time the effect should be miniscule because the coolant is very insulated due to its location in the engine bay. The thermostat valve would keep itself closed to prevent coolant from running to the radiator if the effect you are trying to achieve is bringing heat into the cabin. I had to change out a few that were either stuck open or stuck closed, and stuck closed is worse because thats how you get engine overheating. But stuck open, your heater does not work in winter time and in a non hybrid you wont notice a gas difference since its constantly running, but in a hybrid i can see why that would affect the mpg.
3 weeks ago I bought my 2021 Camry hybrid Le with lithium ion battery. I'm getting around 55 MPG. That is better than my 2013 Prius. It's worth to mention that even though the Le trim is a stripped down model, you still can get heated seats and heated steering wheel if you ask for cold weather package, and that's the one I got Finally, you can get a Toyota with heated seats without paying extra for bills and whistles that you don't need like moonroof and leather seats. Just look for cold weather package and a Camry LE, and you will thank me. It's only $1,300 extra because it also includes the blind spot monitor with rear cross traffic alert.
Hi Land Shass I have purchased 3 weeks ago my new Toyota Corolla 1.8 Sports Estate Lithium Ion Battery and I am getting around 65 miles combined Electric & Petrol. From Northern Ireland UK
Finally bought my first Toyota and it's a RAV4 Hybrid. Thank you AMD for your amazing videos that helped me decide! Since you mention the importance of the battery filter in almost every video you make, I now know that I will be caring for this filter as if it is the most important thing in my life! 😀
One of the best comparison videos I have seen on Toyota nickel metal and lithium ion batteries, I really love this guy 💙 his knowledge on toyota hybrid cars is amazing keep up the good work my Brother 👍 I wanted toyota Hybrid car but not a Prius so I brought a 2014 Lexus is300h F sport / black and I love it😁
I have a new 2023 Rav4 Hybrid XLE heading to the dealer. The VIN lookup states it has a NiMH battery. Thanks for all the great information on the Toyota vehicles!
Appreciate you giving me the heads up in another video awhile back about keeping that battery filter screen and fan clean of lint and debris. The Toyota dealer we take our gen III 2013 Prius to for maintenance does not have that filter/fan on their maintenance checklist. So after some 200K miles of Lyft and Uber driving, I dug into the fan/filter scene last fall to find there was a thick layer of lint on the screen, and the fan was somewhat dirty. I cleaned it all out - the screen is easy, with the fan extraction being a bit harder for me since I had to be real careful not to break those delicate little wires on the fan’s power plug. I now plan on my own maintenance for this of cleaning once a year in the spring before it gets to the summer heat. I’m also now watching the battery pack, MG1/MG2, engine coolant temp, etc with the Torque Pro app. Last summer when outside air temperatures got over 100deg, even up over 110 here in Sac, CA, I noticed that the regen braking acted somewhat different, like bringing in the friction brakes sooner, so I don’t know if the car was protecting the battery pack or MG1/2 or what was going on. Needless to say, I don’t see the battery pack temp going that high, maybe 10-20 deg over cabin temp after several hours of driving. MG1/2 temps do get a lot warmer than I initially anticipated, being right up there at engine coolant temp of about 170-180 degF. Battery voltages are all even within 0.1V, and capacity seems reasonable, tho probably not as great as when the car was newer. Best car I’ve ever owned: very reliable, no significant problems, 50-60 mpg most of the time when Uber/Lyft driving (car fully warmed up), tho mpg takes a big hit down into the 40s when the outside temps get up to 100+ 🌞.
Great video! Something very important that should’ve been mentioned is the cost! NiMH on a Prius is about $3500 to replace from toyota or $1000-1500 aftermarket. Li-Ion is $10,000 and is only available special order from Toyota. That’s a big difference that should be considered.
Definitely should be considered. People are always talking about oh I got a few extra miles per gallon but they paid an extra $20,000 for their car or an extra $10,000 for the battery. It's the overall cost that matters. Are they even going to keep their car long enough to get to the break-even point? Some people paid a lot more money for their hybrid than a regular car and they don't realize they'd have to drive to the Moon and back before they're going to actually save any money. Lol
@@JJ38255 I drove over 140,000 miles since buying my used hybrid, and I think I've saved $0.03 or more per mile on average during that time. (Gas prices varied between $2 and $5 per gal during my ownership and I think it's fair to compare 50mpg [my Prius] vs about 33mpg [Corolla I could have bought with comparable age and odometer reading]). I could have bought a non hybrid for less money, maybe $2500 less. In my case the non hybrid would be a worse deal but I drove a lot of miles!
Thank you, AMD, for another very informative video. My 2021 RAV4 hybrid with XSE trim has a NMH battery that has gone through one winter with no trouble at all. Transport Canada rates its fuel mileage at 6L/100km which means the car will only use 6 litres of fuel to go 100 km. That translates to 39 mpg. However, I have no problem getting 5.8L/100km (40.6 mpg) even running the AC now. Great vehicle, I’m very happy with it.
Toyota originally only used NiMH batteries in their current Rav4 generation, but switched to Li-Ion in the US in 2020. My 2021 XLE is on Li-Ion. They kept the Canadian versions on NiMH because of the more extreme cols conditions, where NiMH batteries fare better. My fuel consumption is very close to yours… about 39.6 mpg most of the time, but drops to 33 mpg in the winter, as the heater is coolant-based, which then makes the engine turn on to keep its running temps up. The air conditioning is more efficient as it’s fully electric. I live in NYC, so in a temperate zone.
@@fallguy4209 There’s a “Battery Location” sticker in the engine compartment that says the primary battery or “traction battery” is nickel metal hydride in my car. I understand that Toyota uses either/or basically whatever type is on hand at the time of manufacture. Still working great.
I have a 2016 Toyota RAV Hybrid Ltd. I rarely get 30mph. I don't know which hybrid battery I have. When I bring my car to the dealer for service, how can I be sure they are changing ALL of the filters?
i have a 22 highlander hybrid, its basically the rav4 but bigger to be a 7 seater (same drive train) and most of the time i get 35-40mpg. below 40F its more like 25-30mpg
I have a a 2008Prius over 400000 mile on the original battery! Took it to the dealer I bought it brand new! Was told I drive it a lot so the battery is all way's hot by driving it a lot! I found a company to put me a new rebuilt battery life time warranty for $1500.00... dealer want over $3000.00 one year warranty!!! God Bless!🙏🙏🙏
What dealer changes hybrid batteries for $3000???? More like $6000. $2000-$3000 is what third party charges for hybrid battery replacement. $1500 is what you pay if you want to replace it yourself. I know because I just shopped around and replaced mine in my Camry.
Best explanation I had for a while. Your way of keeping thin simple is very appreciated. It explains a lot about how the battery works in my Highlander hybrid. Thank you.
Hello AMD - everything that I read or saw on the 2021 Camry SE battery said that it was nickel metal hydride but the web site specs for the SE stated it was lith-ion. I sent an email to Toyota and they confirmed it was lith-ion for all Camry trims this year. Really enjoy your videos and have shared with others that have or considering a Toyota. Thanks and I have learned a ton from you.
I'd rather err on the side of caution until the lithium ion batteries have as long of a good reliability track record as the Nickel Metal Hydride. Peace of mind is well worth the price of a few MPGs.
08 prius nimh going strong still 15 yrs later and 250k. Still all original and I live where it gets minus 50 Celsius in the winter in saskachewan canada
Thank You , for Your God-given discernment … You ALWAYS are given The Most Wonderful Ability to cover and explain the most vital and important areas to keep our Toyotas in Perfect Condition …. The LORD CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU AND YOUR HAPPY FAMILY !
Today when I removed the backseat of my 2021 Camry SE Hybrid, I was surprised 😮, because I saw a Li-ion battery in my car, when the dealership told me that my Camry has a Ni-Mh battery in it.
Thanks for the information! My wife’s 4th gen Lexus RX has NiMH and so far it has worked out quite well. It sat for well over a month and I was surprised at how much charge the battery pack still had.
Older NiMH battery have high self discharge like the video said. But newer Low self discharge NiMH battery have solve that issue for a while already. Perhaps Toyota have updated all the NiMH batteries to the newer LSD NiMH batteries
@@ragnarok164 Panasonic Eneloops are very good only losing about 10% a year. For amusement I worked out you would need 625 to make a 1.8KWH battery for a RAV4. That would only cost £1100 at retail (Ikea) prices.
Such a helpful Toyota/Lexus videos Car-care-nut produces. I noticed Car-care-nut mentioned that the larger size and heavier NiMeH battery takes more trunk space, located under the trunk. But I drive 2011 Lexus RX 450h AWD and the NiMH battery is installed under the rear seats and the trunk is max large of 40 cubic ft, and doubles when the seats are folded.
I’m also a EV/HEV technician. From experience, I conclude something a lot of people don’t know, is that NIMH actually have more instantaneous punch than lithium ion. That’s my experience with using both on same vehicle for experiments. The difference is actually noticeable. If I were to build a dragster I would probably choose NIMH
2016 RAV4 Hybrid we cleaned the HV filter, but there is no actual filter on these models like the newer ones. We have no dogs, kids, and or nothing back there. Still, we will keep our windows rolled up when things are falling off the trees. Seeds, etc. We love this RU-vid channel!
Hi CCN, l enjoyed your video !! I'm an Aussie who drives a 2013 Honda Crz hybrid, the first version with an Li ion Battery, guaranteed by Honda for 10 years. No battery issues at all after 7 years, even with Australia's Hot Climate. Though curiously the Crz has an issue with the comparatively short life of it's small 12 volt battery, as there's no Alternator fitted. The only totally effective cure is to install a 51R battery.. Thanks again.
As always, I'm so happy i subscribed because your knowledge and explanations are worth their weight in gold. You are an excellent teacher and easy to understand. THANK YOU!!!
I purchased, today, a 2023 Rave 4 Hybrid. I was wndering if the type of battery in the car will make a difference. You video, like all others by you that I have watched, clearly explained to me the differences and finally you said, "it basically does not matter". That is reassuring. Plus, I learned from other videos by you to change my oil and other fluids more frequently as well as all filters. I listen and I will do that. 😊Thank you for keeping you channel fresh and informative.
I have Li-Ion - Vacuum (with brush attachment) over filter every 5,000-mile oil change, SoCal driving, lots of Interstate 5, side street hills. Been driving conservatively.... 60+ MPG!
Funny story. So we own an '18 RAV4 XLE Hybrid. I am a low tech kind of guy and all I want to do is turn it on, put it in D or R and go and enjoy my XM radio. So I am in this trip of city/interstate/country driving and I never pushed the menu that gives you the econ data so I played around and figured it out. Well it came up to 31.2MPH which made me very happy. So on that trip just to fool around I pushed it a few more times and every time I did it would come up to 31.2 MPH no matter what type of driving I was doing so I just leave it alone now and tell everyone I get 31.2 mph. One of these days I will open the sun roof. I guess it works but don't know for sure.
I always mistakenly think the latest is the best; but thanks to your excellent and informative videos I now know the difference. It's nice to know that my NiMH battery is durable and proven tech versus the lithium which also looks great but needs more real world years to prove itself. I can't believe how much I keep learning from your highly accessible videos. Thanks AMD.
I think lithium has shown itself to be reliable tech in the pure EV space in cars reaching hundreds of thousands of miles. (The record holder based on my quick online search might be a Tesla Model S & has about 750000 miles?) Your guess is as good as mine whether that applies to hybrids using lithium batteries
@@julianbrelsfordthe issue in hybrid cars is that the battery is cycled far more often, and at high rates relative to battery size, than the battery in fully electric cars. Ni-MH has historically been better at withstanding high rates of charge and discharge than Li-ion, but with advances in cooling system technology lithium ion batteries are becoming more resistant to such stresses.
i’m glad my 21 ES hybrid came w/ the lithium ion. i get 44.9 avg mixed and if i do highway trips and reset the computer just for that highway trip, i get about 52mpg.
Wow, very good info! We actually own both types....the NiMH in my wife's 2017 Prius 2 LE and the Li_Ion in my 2021 Prius LE AWD. 2017 GVWR is 3,915 and the 2021 GVWR is 4,070 but that's because it has the rear-wheel diff/electric motor. MPG on the 2017 is low-50's while the 2021 is low-60's but I suspect it's because of the better traction batteries plus the 2021 uses 0W-16 instead of the 0W-20 in the 2017. Amazing technology!
Just a great video, absolutely helpful in putting this issue NiMeH vs. Li-ion battery to bed. As this great mechanic tells you, which type of hybrid battery should not be even a consideration when considering a Toyota/Lexus hybrid vehicle. There are pluses and minuses first both, but size and weight is the only major difference when Toyota/Lexus took in mind installing in one model vs. other. I have experienced in a couple of hybrids already how NiMeH battery tend to self-discharge itself especially when sitting for prolonged time. And when with time the NiMeH battery start holding the charge even less and less more frequently - then it’s a signal that one should consider replacing the battery sooner rather than later. But Car-Care-Nut pointed it out - NiMeH battery has a longer track of usage, so the longevity, and more stable in more extreme low and high temp, less expensive to replace in comparison with newer generation Li-ion battery. He did not mentioned that theoretically (since the software management of this car battery will not allow that) Li-ion battery are flammable.
FYI, in July 2022, the spec sheet for a Rav4 XLE trim on its way to me has a Ni-Mh battery. I am fine with this. Might even be better, being in upstate New York, but I expect that Toyota has temperature issues well under control for both battery types. I assume that they used this battery because of supply issues as much as anything else and I am glad to be getting a car within a few months, not a year or more! While the car cruises around the world I'll go over all the great info you provide on caring for these cars. Thanks for all you do to help people and give people info and advice to make good decisions. You represent the best the internet can be!
Thank you for the info regarding nickel metal hydride vs lithium ion batteries. One thing I noticed in tools. As the nmh battery discharges, the speed of the tool drops in RPM. The L I battery has full output till there is no output from the battery and speed or light drops to zero very suddenly!
This is why power management software in cars is crucial. A hybrid car should never let you reach an empty battery. It’s also why you should be VERY careful of running out of fuel in a hybrid (and why Toyota created a huge fuel reserve in their tanks.)
I think the reason for the better gas mileage in li-ion equiped cars is less the weight than the efficiency : Li-ion charging efficiency is around 80% - 90% whereas NiMH is around 60-70%. All in all the best imho would be lithium iron : not dangerous like li-ion and way longer life and many more cycles. (used for example in household energy storage in conjunction with solar panels)
Hi AMD, really enjoying watching your videos, very informative. I have question about battery change. Can NiMH be changed to Li-Ion in same car? Can this be an option at the time to change the hybrid battery? Thank you,
Around 5:28: Correct advice - in the Toyota manual, it says “…the hybrid battery (traction battery) will slowly discharge. For this reason, be sure to drive the vehicle at least once every few months for at least 30 minutes or 16 km (10 miles).” So, your 3 months is about right. No doubt it depends what state it’s in when it’s left and the weather etc, even though it’s isolated when switched off.
NiMH heats up too quick. As I’ve mentioned to you AMD, I suffer from heat soak (it’s autumn here so temps at < 20C) particularly when going down a hill once or twice, park it in the shade and it heats up above the 44C threshold. The Li ion (I have a 2012 Prius v 7 seater with Li ion) charges up quick but that’s because it has a lower capacity. It also stood the test of time being reliable and doesn’t heat up above any threshold.
I guess if you suffer from extreme temperatures where you live, IMO the best choice is to use the AC to maintain temperature inside the car. And with that, also the battery pack.
hello i have 2 camry Le and Xle le its very fast and very good temperaru battery lIon but Xle its very slow and down mpg and very heath battarry temperature
I think the most dependable hybrid is the 2007 highlander hybrid. Besides timing belts and the abs actuator l, I’ve never personally seen them need much work. Never seen the battery pack need to be replaced either, at least in Raleigh NC
@@wed3k You’re probably right but just sheer reliability, I think it’s one of the most reliable cars Toyota ever made. I also stand corrected. Ive finally seen a hybrid highlander battery pack get replaced. It didn’t set a p0a80 code or anything. They had a water leak and messed somethings up
Lithium ion packs for hybrids and ev's are quite reliable. There's a group of people who re use them for solar storage and projects out of crashed ev's and hybrids and the degradation on them is usually very minimal. EXCEPT the nissan leafs that used un-cooled packs, those are usually 50% worn or more, terrible. Everything else has been in awesome shape, near new capacities, even with lots of miles.
@@volvo09 My 'Toyota' looks like it will last another decade so the debate may be irrelevant by then. If I was shopping today, I would buy a RAV4 LE or Highlander Hybrid with the Nickel battery.
My new Rav4 XSE hybrid has the nickel metal Hydride batteries. Way up here in cold Sudbury, Ontario. My previous 2019 Honda Insight hybrid (purchased in July 2018) had Lithium Ion batteries and when it was under -25C which was often in the winter, the instrument panel would light up with warnings and things didn't work too well until the car warmed while driving which would sometimes take up to an hour. I'm happy Toyota puts NiMH in all Rav4 hybrids sold in Canada.
Ahmed thanks for another great video. I wondered that the differences between the two Batteries I why Toyota choose to use the two types in the 2018-2021 Camry. Thanks for the clear explanation and sharing the knowledge. I am likely to get a hybrid vehicle in a few years as I am really liking the Venza. Good to know both batteries are good.
I love my 2010 Toyota Highlander Hybrid. The NiMH battery is AMAZING. I never let the car sit for more than 2 days and even worse without any charge in the battery! My car uses more electric power than the engine almost always. I barely hear my v6 unless really accelerate. I truly love my car. It has a brand new battery, 160k miles and still running very strong!
Li Ion for Life, haha thanks for sharing your knowledge. Wonder if any of the materials used for making the batteries could become scarce one day from so much production.
I don't know about nickel, but lithium has been in the news occasionally as a potential conflict mineral in South America. The lithium deposits apparently span several countries and, like oil, can be mined under foreign soil be slant drilling. (Lithium is mined by injecting water into deposits and bringing up the mineral in solution.)
I just invested into a new Rav4 to (Uber/AmazonDeliver) thanks to you Good Sir!!! How could i found out what battery it came with? My toyota dealer couldn't tell me. My Rav4 XLE non-premium was built a couple months ago in Kentucky. May the Lord Bless you and keep you Señor!
@@TheCarCareNut Not correct. Toyota switched from NiMH to Lithium-Ion in US-made Rav4 Hybrids in 2020. All 2021 models should be Li-Ion. It’s in the manual and can be seen on the app for your vin, and the dealer can ABSOLUTELY tell.
I live in Thailand and will opt for the new Toyota Corolla Cross GR Sport Hybrid ( quite a mouthful ) We also consider the Corolla Altis Gr Sport Hybrid and we also tried the Chinese Haval H6 which is awesome for the price point. But for reliability I am not so sure. They are all around the same price here in Thailand. Anyway my point is, none of the dealerships mention the battery filter and vent that you shouldn't clog up or block. And that information is vital to make sure the battery doesn't go dead. I already read about an eyewitness report that his Haval H6 suddenly wouldn't work in the middle of nowhere. What happened ? The vent under the middle back seat was blocked. But if you haven't been told you haven't got a chance so thank for this vital tip in any hybrid and the filter as well of course... Keep up the good work and very informative videos. You are very much appreciated 👍
Thank you for the video. I always wanted to know about this. I have a home system backup. I got LifePO batteries for my house backup system 6 months ago; this is 8kw for $2500 for the batteries. I put a BMS for each of the 2 packs of 8 cells and use a 5K inverter. Now looking at the cost of a new CAR battery in the range of 85KW for $7,000 would have been my best choice.
I have to say the 2021 Camry LE Hybrid delivers. I'm getting 52.5 mpg in the city, when I try to drive sane. Sport mode is addictive though and is a hoot. 46 mpg is normal for me when I indulge in Sport Mode regularly. I'm curious, has anyone here done the lithium project replacement lithium ion battery cells for older Toyota hybrids. $1800-2300 for new lithium cells to completely rebuild your battery seem like an interesting proposition. I imagine there is some bms magic going on in the cells in order to play nicely with the car software.
I feel smarter every time I listen to him. I was concerned that a new delivery Rav4 XSE is going to have a Lithium and I live in Iowa. Not going to sweat it now. Thanks CCN.
Thanks, as always for the very informative video. So let's look ahead to a time in the future when my 2021 Highlander Hybrid needs a new battery. Will I be able to choose between the two types (assuming there's not some newer and improved other variant) or do I have to stay with the NiMH that was the original equipment? Thank you.
what makes a toyota a toyota is that they take everything into account from the start and integrate everything for efficiency and longevity. own an Auris Euro '15 with the 136 hp 1.8 and NiMH battery - no regrets. best mpg at the pump - 69.79661 mpg. and it runs sooo smooth.
lol i have experience with nimh battery. the memory effect is the worst, my shaver has nimh and i kept charging and charging and then eventually after about 3 yrs can barely hold any charge, i hav a lith-ion shaver, going to see how long that lasts me
Per Toyota's compare tool, the type of hybrid battery used for Rav4 Hybrids depends on the model and production date. Looks like some changes regarding battery type used occurred around January 2021.
According to the brochure, the 2022 RAV4 Hybrid, it’s not just the LE that is NiMH battery, it’s also the XLE, with the XLE Premium and the rest of the trims being Li-Ion
For a hybrid I would choose a NiMH battery. Much better history of longevity. The lack of power density isn’t a critical issue in a hybrid application.
Yes historically NiMH batteries have longer service life spans than Lithium Ion, and I’m not talking about in cars, I just mean in general. Lithium Ion also tends to drop the usable amount of charge faster.
My 2010 prius gets stored all winter for 5 months. At 2.5 months or so I start it and charge the battery..Actually it doesn't lose much over that time.One bar maybe .Been doing this for years..still get up to 70mpg on some trips. usually 50 mpg.
