Morgoth also wanted to rule everything: "And of these Melkor was the chief, even as he was in the beginning the greatest of the Ainur who took part in the Music. And he feigned, even to himself at first, that he desired to go thither and order all things for the good of the Children of Ilúvatar, controlling the turmoils of the heat and the cold that had come to pass through him. But he desired rather to subdue to his will both Elves and Men, envying the gifts with which Ilúvatar promised to endow them; and he wished himself to have subjects and servants, and to be called Lord, and to be a master over other wills."
@@Dahaka-rd6tw no my brother, jealousy is when you fear someone might take somebody or something you love from you, envy is the feeling someone has something that you don't have without deserving it. Envy consists of three feelings: a sense of inferiority, the shame of being inferior and the craving for the thing you wish you had.
@@AdhvaithSane An evil which follows certain principles and is interested in "rulling" over something rather than "destroying" it mindlessly. Morgoth for example would, rather completely destroy everything to spread chaos. It's a sort of lust for power to satisfy his rage. Sauron would subjugate and dominate everything to recreate it according to his own vision.
Morgoth was the original dark Lord while sauron was his lieutenant. Morgoth was a valar or angelic beings that were created from eru's mind. It had been said that melkor or morgoth was the mightiest valar but he wanted the flame imperishable for himself which can create life but it was with eru iluvatar. Due to this he tried creating havoc in the mighty music of ainur. Then he along with other valar and maiar came down to arda (the earth). There were many wars fought between him and other valars but at last he was chained. The first children of iluvatar also came who were elves and they crafted the silmarils but it was stolen by morgoth. The first age is all about the wars between morgoth and elves. At last with the aid of valar morgoth was defeated but sauron his lieutenant escaped and hid in arda. Then in second age sauron took a fair form and shared his knowledge of ring forging to the grandchildren of feanor (the elf who created the silmarils) . In this way 16 rings were created by sauron and elves. Three rings were created by elves alone and one master ring was created by sauron in which he put his own will and malice. The second age ends with the fall of sauron with his defeat in the war of last alliance of men and elves and in third age he returned but he fell completely since his ring was destroyed.
@@jmgonzales7701 Yes. He is beyond Sauron as Sauron was beyond Galadriel. Sauron was the most powerful Maia (lesser spirit) while Morgoth/Melkor was the most powerful Vala(greater spirit)
@Aung Ramen Aule the Valar is interesting compared to his Maiar disciples (Sauron and Saruman) because knowing only Eru Illuvitar can create life, Aule "crafted" the dwarven race out of stone, they were essentially inanimate objects. When Eru discovered this he asked Aule why he defied Eru in trying to create life as he pointed out during the Ailundale (the song of creation) that only he is permitted to create life; Aule's response impressed Eru so much, Eru sanctioned the Dwarven Race for Aule and permitted it. point is; compared to his disciples and Melkor, Eru made the distinction that Aule created life out of admiration instead of ambition like his peers
" *just* wanted to rule middle earth" is a heck of way to belittle and dumb down Sauron 💀 Idk why people have such a hard time appreciating that they were two DIFFERENT breeds of evil, you can acknowledge the fact Morgoth was more powerful and destructive AND appreciate Sauron's ability to manipulate and corrupt, he didn't want to "just" rule middle earth (which he got so close to doing despite being far less powerful) he wanted to all but enslave all beings hearts and minds to his will. Chaos vs Order, they're both magnificent villains and stained middle earth forever, at least until it's made anew
Read the works before creating a video. "Melkor", later named 'Morgoth' by Féanor himself, did NOT want to destroy creation. He wanted dominion over all the world and the worship of the First and Second Children. His primary motive was to find the Flame Imperishable. The power of true creation. He never found it. So, instead, he warped what life there was to fashion the 'evil' races of Middle Earth and Beleriand. Sauron poured most of his power into the One Ring. Morgoth did something similar in that he expended a great deal of his might in his first attempt to create life. The Great Wyrms and later the Winged Wyrms (Dragons). Anyway, what I'm getting at is that Morgoth wasn't chaotic. Sauron took his manner and methods directly from his master. People forget that both Gandalf and Sauron were Maiar. Not only that, but both were Maiar of Fire. As were the Maiar who became the Balrogs. Morgoth commanded multiple Maiar.
Thank you for this- this short vastly misunderstands the natures of Morgoth and Sauron. While distinct personalities, they both shared the same general ambition and worldview, and had the same general goal. Philosophically, Morgoth did not accept the living beings created fit into the perfection of creation. Their messiness and propensity towards imperfection and chaos made him believe they were corrupting creation, so he corrupted these beings into creations of his own as mockeries to what was created as a sort of protest and revolt. The distinction mainly lies in the differences in approaches and methods Morgoth and Sauron took to changing Middle Earth. Melkor's objection and revolt against creation was an almost purely metaphysical and philosophical one. And literally, in the sense that he was singing discord into the song of creation as a philosophical and narrative counterpoint. It was this metaphysical counter melody that directly influenced physical creation and corrupted aspects of it. Sauron, being a lower being, did everything he did in the world physically, and the methods of his revolt were nearly purely political and material. He physically acted as a recruiter and battlefield commander, as a necromancer, and even poured his metaphysical evil into a physical object, concreting it into physical form on Middle Earth. I'm sure there's a lot I've missed and probably some inaccuracies with what I've said, but the distinctions between Morgoth and Sauron seem to be more methodological, and due to the difference in their natures- one being an Ainur and trying to change the fundamental nature of reality through metaphysical dissonance that materializes in physical reality, and the other a Mai'ar who seeks to change creation by physically dominating it and dictating it from the physical world itself. But as you can see, philosophically, they ultimately had the same ideas and goals, and Sauron was independently carrying out the goals of his master, even after his defeat.
@@johnozzmond9728 its more inspired by the Welsh and Finnish and Norse epics. Kalevala, Elder Edda, Beowulf, Sigurd and Gudrun, Bagvagita and so on, and definitely the more forgotten Aurthurian legends too. But even more so with the irish lore and culture which many things were seeded such as The Tuatha De Danaan!
@@Makkaru112 Tolkien himself said his work was inspired by Catholicism, unconsciously at first, then consciously in revision. He also drew from some various European mythologies, but that's true of any western fantasy work
Morgoth made the first ring in a sense. Which ironically can't be destroyed since Morgoth's ring is the entirety of middle earth. He litterally put a piece of himself into everything on middle earth
I found it really interesting how in the books Sauron is actually pretty diplomatic. He usually tried negotiations before war. He even tried to purchase horses from Rohan for the wraiths, when they refused he simply stole them.
Morgoth wasn't a destroyer, he was a corruptor. He hated the Elves because they were created by Illuvatar and because the other Valar shaped Arda for the Elves. Morgoth wanted to create on his own and in searching for the Imperishable Flame deep in the vastness of Ea, away from the song of the Ainur, he essentially went mad, turning his power to corruption. His powers, once he descended into Arda, still co-mingled with the other Valar and served a purpose, but he didn't want to destroy all life. Just the life that Illuvatar had created. Chiefly Elves and Men, but he would corrupt them if he could. He too wanted to rule his own realm and his actions were to make the Elves leave Middle-Earth and return to Valinor.
This person's use of "Ainur" is incorrect. Ainur is a categorisation of both Maiar and Valar. Sauron is a Maiar (demi-god) and Morgoth is a Valar (pantheon god) and Illuvitar is THE god that encompasses all, both the Maiar and Valar are his children conceived from his thoughts
@@peaceunion5316 power systems in Tolkien are never so simple as valar equals better in every way. If it helps, think of it this way, a battle oriented MAIAR can easily take Morgoth, such as Tulkas, who entered the world later on via Eru. And through bravery and faith in Eru beings like Olorin in their nerfed wizard form can take on a Balrog of morgoth, also a Maia like Gandalf. Same as how if the ground wasn't ground to dust around Fingolfin, he'd have continued to damage melkor more than seven times and continued to dodge his blows. And those wounds melkor bore could never heal and he'd be forever in agony and forever had a limp, forever to be embarrassed infront of his generals and thralls alike!
Unicron is like satan from the transformers world but megatron is from primus or god in their verse so megatron is actually a good guy in their world since he only wants to rebuild his planet
Neutral evil in LOTR are more or less the Easterlings. Not under Sauron's tyranny anymore, but decided to join his forces for their own gains and to stop the infighting in their lands. Amoral, just as ruthless as the orks, made the choice to be evil.
Tolkien Lore (The Tolkien Geek) channel did a really cool one where he proved Sauron is like a replacement Manwë to Morgoth, i won't spoil anything. It's super fascinating and he uses source material only to prove it.
Morgoth, originally Melkor, was multitalented in creating things. He was not the master of a single thing, but he was close in talent to the Vala that were. Were he more disciplined, he would have been the king of Arda Unstained forever. But because of his multitalented nature and his lust to create coupled with his undisciplined habits in his work, he grew prideful and jealous for what was not his. He became a chaotic despot. Sauron, originally Mairon, was similarly multitalented among the Maiar, and he had a great fascination with Order and Creation, being the apprentice of Aulë, the Vala of Craft. This fascination grew into an obsession with Melkor's meddling, and he betrayed Manwë, discontent with the way the King of Arda imposed such a lack of Order upon Arda.
Simply Morgoth was an envious artist while Sauron was a fascist. Morgoth wanted to reshape the very lands of middle earth and corrupt its inhabitants. He wanted to create his own version of arda(earth), middle earth was his canvas and chaos was his art. Sauron on the other hand on his own twisted ways desired for peace and order, through the rings of power and the one ring he sought to manipulate the leaders of middle earth to rule them all.
Thing is Mairon always had an attraction and respect for those with intelligence and skill. They are both fascinating and layered characters who among other characters too have inspired so many discussions for decades now on even simply about their perspectives etc!
Morgoth didn’t want to destroy life. He wanted to corrupt it and twist it into a perversion of life. Hence the orcs, dragons etc. he wanted his own version of life.
That is true but his corrupt creations were made in spite. If Morgoth acquired the eternal flame, he likely would have created entirely different beings. That would never happen though, so perverting life was the next best option. Pretty much a god tier tantrum.
I agree. Melkor wanted to make life, so his corruptions/perversions were the consolation. Sauron wanted to establish order to chaos and control the seemingly uncontrollable.
Sauron: One of if not the BBEG's Top Lieutenants Morgoth: The BBEG and second most powerful being in Middle-Earth Lore existence next to Eru himself. Note: When I say power I mean cosmic power in and of itself because Manwë (essentially king of the gods) was greatest in authority next to Eru and Tulkas (the only being capable of physically overpowering Morgoth) was the greatest in physical strength.
Morgoth's alternative name is Melkor which you might hear mentioned at times. There is a spider spirit also name Ungoliant. She would make Shelob look like a tiddler.
Could've been more in depth. Morgoth felt inadequate that he was the most powerful einur and held a share in all their spheres of power, yet he was humiliated by Eru who told melkor that even his power had it's utmost source in him (Eru). He was also impatient to create life and when he could not do it himself he sought to corrupt and destroy Erus work. Orcs, trolls, dragons etc. While morgoth was pure chaos, Sauron was pure order. He only joined morgoth as it boosted his own native power and gave him the ability of domination. Sauron himself hated wastage and wanted to make middle earth as beautiful as the blessed realm, however he believed that the people were unable to effectively govern themselves which is why he created the rings of power, to kill two birds with one stone; to control their wearers and slow the decay of time. These rings were intended to enthrall the minds of their wearers to his will in his one ring. However he once again underestimated the life around him, once he wore the master ring the elves took off their rings so as not to be influenced and the dwarves had indomitable wills as made by aule himself; the rings only made them greedier but gave sauron no control. This is when he tried his hand at conquest. In the end both morgoth and sauron fell by the same method. Their own hubris.
I'd say Morgoth wanted to destroy the world so that he could reshape it how he wanted. Before he ever went into Middle Earth his pursuit of power came about because in order to ensure a perfect world he had to have some control. This spiraled out of control and it led him to wanting to control everything (this same drive for control to ensure tranquility also corrupted Saron and the other fallen Maiar). So no, he wasn't chaos incarnate. The one who fulfilled that role was Ungoliant. She was this bottomless pit of hunger and only ever wanted to consume everything in Arda. She even damaged Morgoth enough at one point where he had to call out to his forces to help him.
Morgoth wanted to undo all of creation. Not just annihilating the Elves, Dwarves and Men. But every blade of grass, every river stream. Everything that represents life and that is living. Morgoth wanted to bring about the ultimate doom and annihilate everything. Sauron wanted ownership over creation, he wanted to be master of all living things and would do anything, and commit unspeakable atrocities to achieve his goal. So both are true evil just with different goals.
Morgoth is Lucifer. Sauron is a high school goth kid who has black candles in his room and listens to death metal while drawing pentagrams on notebook paper.
Morgoth wanted to control and twist life not destroying it as the second best option for him after he understood that only Iluvatar can create life. His destruction was a result of the other Valar not errr .. agreeing with him. His servants were the first ones to discover the awakening of the Children of Iluvatar - Elves and latter Men as well, the Orcs were created by torturing and corrupting the captured Elves first.
This video is all kinds of wrong. “Ainur” is an order used to describe the maiar and valar. The latter more powerful than the former. Morgoth was valar while Sauron was maiar.
Tolkien said that some Maiar were "nigh as great to the Valar". We can only speculate, but obviously Sauron fits into that category, seeing as how he almost ruled Middle-earth.
Morgoth is Saurons master. He was the one who corrupted Sauron and is pretty much responsible for all the evil acts in the world. Sauron had to step up after Morgoth was banished to the outer dark.
Who said Morgoth wanted to destroy everything, he wanted to create things but couldn't so he was twisting and corrupting other creations, like creating Orcs from Elves. Also Morgoth's Dragons were most likely more evil than he was, Ungoliant was probably even more evil. There is no point in destroying everything when your whole story is trying to make others worship you. Same goes for Sauron.
Morgoth and Sauron had the same goal, just different methods. Morgoth sought control and dominance through corruption and brute force, whereas Sauron sought control through lies and deception, in order to convince the powerful adversaries of middle earth to essentially destroy themselves. Morgoth wielded a big stick, Sauron wielded a silver tongue.
This video is incorrect. Morgoth didn't want to destroy life. He wanted to rule over other life. "And of these Melkor was the chief, even as he was in the beginning the greatest of the Ainur who took part in the Music. And he feigned, even to himself at first, that he desired to go thither and order all things for the good of the Children of Ilúvatar, controlling the turmoils of the heat and the cold that had come to pass through him. But he desired rather to subdue to his will both Elves and Men, envying the gifts with which Ilúvatar promised to endow them; and he wished himself to have subjects and servants, and to be called Lord, and to be a master over other wills."
Morgoth came first from the valinar, which were essentially Tolkien’s version of angels, and either got kicked out or left their heaven because he tried to make different music for their father, then he decided to get back at the angels and their god by destroying the elves which were the direct children of the valinar, sauron was just Morgoths student who decided to both carry on his masters mission while taking middle earth for himself
Beckett and Dryden Voss being in could also give a real smuggler team since rn the smuggler faction only exists for smuggler’s run, credit heist, and training droid heist lol (side note why isn’t Jabba a scoundrel??) also think they could add Agent Kallus at some point though it’s a bit awkward with the imperial trooper teams since he probably could/should be a leader but that would make team cracks among Veers/Iden/DTMG even worse
Morgoth is the reason why I do respect the big homie JR Tolkien, and I think folks misconstrue his words, Mr. Tolkien before saying that Sauron in the second age was greater than Morgoth at the end of the first🤦🏿♂️ he made it clear that Sauron was smaller in stature if these dudes locked asses, Morgoth would crush him, this dude was doing crazy shit, while crippled after his fight with fingolfin. No way Sauron was on the level on this guy, a host of the valar had to be sent to take this dude down, screw the fact that he wouldn't come outside after his fight with fingolfin, the man's killers consisted of Glauron, Gothmog, Durins Bane, Ankelagon, even Sauron who was no warrior, was his little homie. some of the most terrifying villains in the legendarium, they are a product of Morgoth Bauglir.
I wished we focused more on the first age and the 2nd age it sounds like its the peak of the whole lore. Lord of the rings was technically the conclusion to it all.
The real mystery wasn't Morgoth or Sauron ... But The spider which has been called: Ungoliant Who or what created this creature or (better called it) This thing? Where it came to world of middle earth? What was it's purpose? and other unanswered questions ... If I know right, It was been able to defeat and maybe consume Morgoth (the strongest Vallar) himself, after she drank the nectar of those trees from lands of not dying, it has growen larger (if his balorogs would not aid him).
I don't claim to be a hardcore Lord of the Rings fan... As a casual, I figured that Sauron was the ultimate bad guy in that universe. To know that there's someone worse than him roaming around out there sends a chill down my spine
Mungo wasn't banished into the void. He went there willingly to search for the theme Imperishable, which is used to create life. And that's where he gained thoughts different from the other Ainu, and started plotting in order to destroy life since he couldn't create his own.
ah I always loved the absolute ridiculous lore of middle earth and how expansive it is. Stephen kings dark tower kinda pulls from the idea of worlds being between other worlds but he does it in a different way involving dimensions and portals
@@daneoman1000 yeah cause Balrogs are powerful demons created by ancient rituals and bestowed withe the very power of Morgoth, they're so stronger that even the gods had problems against fighting them and let's not speak of their leader who was a total beast (but he got slayen during the war of first age that set of the start of second age)
Sauron is more manipulative and cunning and thus more successful compared to his more powerful master who wasted a lot of his own energy on poisoning the world and it's lifeforms with his evil. In other fantasy worlds it is possible for a successor great evil/dark lord/demon king to surpass their predecessor and become more powerful and more evil but in Tolkien's world it is very difficult to surpass Morgoth's power. Morgoth's main power in his weakened state is his army of monsters, in combat he is a dangerous but also a terrible fighter because of how little time he spends in combat compared to the amount of time he spends on making monsters and poisoning the earth. Fingolfin would have had a smaller chance at injuring Morgoth if Morgoth had trained. Sauron also had less battle experience than those he fought in battle because of the amount of time he spends deceiving people and making strategies to defeat the enemy factions but I think he is ultimately the better combatant compared to Morgoth.
The difference between Morgoth and Sauron is more in intelligence. Morgoth was a god and had a ridiculous amount of power but not very smart. Sauron was not a good fighter but a very intelligent manipulator and more cunning then Morgoth.
@@lalallallagunwolaaaa Sauron literally lost to a hound of Orome. The big one was when Gil Galad and Elendil actually killed him. Isildur cut off the ring after Sauron was already killed. Morgoth mostly preyed on the hatred of the Noldor against each other. Most of the civilizations in Beleriand fell because of the Sons Of Feanor or Turin’s curse. He literally had luck on his side when the Valar didn’t execute him immediately after he was captured. Morgoth was more about military might to crush someone. Morgoth used intimidation to get his way and when that didn’t work he threw a temper tantrum. Sauron had a vastly smaller army than Morgoth ever did so Sauron had to be more creative. Most of the physical fights Sauron has been in he lost horribly. Sauron was a tactical genius but had to rush battles because he was scared of Aragorn thinking he had the ring. I would argue The Witch King is the best of two worlds an excellent fighter that could best Elves and a tactical genius.
@@mr.awesomereacts2533 You're right for most part but: 1.Hound is obviously powerful dog and he had help from Luthien not to mention prophecy which Sauron believed in his arrogance that it was him that will slay Hound. 2. No it wasn't luck because they couldn't kill him because he was a valar and no one could kill a valar only imprison him and Manwe couldn't understand lying which Melkor obviously was. 3.What do you mean he was throwing a temper tatrum by definition he was always throwing a temper tatrum but seriously what do you mean exacly? 4.Melkor was more creative than Sauron I think there was quote that said Morgoth started new plans but Sauron perfected them.
Morgoth wants to destroy everything that was created by Iluvatar or Valar out of spite from the Iluvatar. Sauron doesn't want to destroy but rule middle earth in his image. Come to think of it, if Sauron was a little less extreme, he could've been one of Morgoth's greatest rivals.
Morgoth was the first and mightiest of the Valar born of the first thoughts of Eru to produce an Ainur. Sauron was merely a Maiar a much latter lesser thought of Eru, like a lesser spirit or lesser god, under the valar, who in turn are but creations of the one true god Eru Iluvatar. For this reason Sauron was much much much weaker than Morgoth. Sauron had learnt magic from Morgoth and used that to try and bolster his own power to approximate a degree of Morgoth's power, but he was always much weaker than Morgoth. The battle between the Valar and Morgoth destroyed a large part of the world, ending with Morgoth being exiled into the void.
Thumps up, too many people make Sauron a less powerful version of Morgoth. Sauron was his own character and better at certain things than Morgoth, but much less powerful.
Sauron is horribly misunderstood. He was created to achieve order, that was his job. He saw Morgoth as a way to fulfill his job. If a lion kills and eats, does it make the lion evil ? No. In the same breath, Sauron saw free will as an opposite to order. I would honestly put the blame upon the Ainuir for failing lay down proper rules of what type of order they wanted Sauron to achieve. Instead they just said “Your job is to create order”….and that is exactly what Sauron set out to do.
Sauron got defeated by a bunch of pathetic sentient meat. Morgoth needed Eru himself, the creator of existence itself to intervene bending the space and banishing him to the void.
What you mean is... the entirety of middle earth came to fight morgoth and still could not win but luckily two certain people made to the western lands and begged the Valar to help and they did so. Destroying Morgoth's army and banishing him to the void... which is said he will escape one day.
Morgoth was defeated by the host of the Valar (the second time) and Tulkas only arrived at the end to chain him up. The doors of Night were always there, he was thrown into them again. Sauron was not to be overpowered to defeat him; no physical harm would ever keep him down unless the Ring was destroyed.
Mairon: wants absolute order to reign and thinks his rule would bring absolute efficiency or order Melkor: wants to destroy arda out of bitter spite, resentment and jealousy towards his creatot
Sauron is how India views Britain. Morgoth is how Ireland views Britain. Disclaimer: this is not to downplay what Britain did to India, more instead to emphasize what Britain has done to Ireland.
