What WEAPON IS BEST to DEFEAT CHAINMAIL? 

I mean cuts doing basically nothing to you would be advantage enough to see pretty good use. The raw resistance against most piercing was higher than I thought though. It may have been somewhat wide, but that spear truly did borderline jack shit. Almost makes you wonder how people managed to die with this stuff on before there was "counterplay" developed.

@@1stCallipostle Easy, you hit them in the head. Or cut their legs. (Why the Scutum was invented)

@@1stCallipostle i mean, just because the mail held up, doesn't mean people would. a good solid whack will still knock someone on their ass and open them up to finishers.

​@@hia5235Scutum was invented as a shield no different than any other shield. Greaves and helmets stop head and leg blows being fatal as much

Chainmail is so good that it's even worn in the modern day by divers as a kind of shark proof diving suit

They just need to start slashing and stabbing harder than my dead grandmas and then we might really know which weapon will be best

So you are multiple people?

@@iLoveBigKnockers all as in whole like the whole him

@@Lord_Marquaad Yeah, so it's multiple people.

Between the Indiana Jones episode and this one's thumbnail literally imitating Adam's new channel, yeah.

It'd be a pretty cool episode idea to perform a historical Viking funeral!

What?! He obviously needs to be sent in a small rowboat down a river through a waterfall! (I mean I'm joking but then again, can you imagine the smoke that foam would create if burned? xdd)

I suspect they'll need resperators when/if they do. The material he's made out of is rather noxious when burnt.

Or, alternatively, burial mound.

OH GOD YES THEY NEED TO DO THIS

I mean if it did nothing they wouldn’t have used it

yeah, and stabby things stick in there, your chances are already slim fighting 2 mail weaing guys, but that isn't helping lol i'm kinda miffed the goedendag wasn't tested i'd imagine that would be the king of chainmail killers (against a single enemy for aforementioned reasons, retrieval is a bit of a faff) cheap and trivial to make, and came in various sizes, cobbling together a goedendag that pokes nicely in the holes between would be pretty doable on a larger scale by unskilled workers and cheap and easy to source materials, i could feasibly make one, and i'm not a blacksmith and can't make weapons for shit got a little bit more range, and far more purchase with your handpalms on the stick end, than your tines and daggers, you could probably jab the pointy bastard in like 15 centimeters if you make em the right diameter and keep the pointy end nice and skinny (and not too brittle obviously), the extra purchase is probably pretty nice for overcoming ribcages or cartilage on (in) your subject. i guess there would even be options in that where you can opt for 3 or 4-sided flats on the blade rather than cylindrical if you're specifically are trying to break the links by focusing the outward exertion forces on the chain links too, but i think there's no need for it whatsoever with a full bypass on a sharp spike and just opt for a longer skinnier blade instead, but if you have some purchase in terms of mass because you want a longer stick for range/manouvrability, you may still stretch or distort the links a bit and get that extra bit of oomph on the back end of the blade AFTER the sharp tip has already bypassed the chain, and well penetrated but why would you? attempting to attack the chain with outward force only makes it harder to retrieve the bitch again as it jams in between, a full bypass would be the most intelligent choice, so fuck tapering off too wide, a mostly straight blade would be the best with retrieval in mind if you want to destory the chains, you gotta play with more bulky weird sharp shapes on the end that can focus the exertion to 1 point better and can also do twisting/torsion types of forces as they get stuck in there with their bulk after the initial impact, that try and bend and fold the links and make the links themselves exert force on their neighbours, using the old crank and lever to use their lack of elasticity against them, at some point it's either bend, or break. but i don't see the point if you can just bypass the bitch all the way :D als, on "bend or break", in my native language (Dutch) you also have a saying that goes "buigen of barsten" (bend or burst), which mean: "you have to make a concession here or the entire agreement is off or operation is in jeopardy", essentially "take it or leave it" in making agreemenst, but also "you gotta bite the bulllet" in things you're already involved/vested in but can also be used to say you have to adapt to changes and get with the times or find yourself out of touch, broken or confused i think a custom goedendag would be the utmost best killer against a single fighter with chainmail in efficacy, affordability and attainabiliy/replacebility

@@dutchdykefinger the goedendag is a great pick for trying to get through chainmail actually. Such an under-rated weapon.

What they really need is an estoc and a stiletto.

The key is that you need something very narrow and stiff. Wedge it open. If it flexes it's not gonna work. IMO a hole in this video is the lack of half-swording, put some gloves on and grab the blade halfway up with your other hand to stop it from flexing. Particularly the sword at 16:00, I suspect it'd pierce more consistently that way.

To be fair, armor made of literal magic is only 13. (Yeah it can get modifiers but shut up)

Also D&D, gambeson (padded as it's listed in 5E) gives disadvantage on stealth. Leather armour does not. The way D&D handles armour is pretty rubbish. One of the reasons I threw out leather for brigandine and removed the disadvantage from padded.

Homebrew is de whey

I mean they give plate armor which covers every part of your body with metal a 18, so it's not far off the scale.

Is it though? Sure you might not bleed out and die from external wounds, but every bone in your arms and torso is broken with blunt force trauma and you will probably die from internal bleeding. Its like saying a kind of modern body armor can take a shot from a 30.06 or more. Sure it might not technically "defeat" the armor, but the dude wearing it still has his innards turned to jello

@@rjohnm666 agreed 👍

I can see it

For the longest time I didn't get how to spell that Tyr... Tyrell.. Tyren..?

Great video as always

@@ilari90 a tyrant, but with some flair.

Agreed, it may not be as super professional looking yet or what, maybe just my subjective opinion, but three people has a better dynamic and is frankly more interesting than one guy, even when it is Shad, talking for 30min.

Agreed. And not to forget Nathan who's clearly a backbone of the whole thing in terms of off-screen work. :) (Presume he does a lot of the camera work and editing).

I agree, this channel has gotten even better with the additional hosts! And their ability to perform real-world testing on our beloved topic of weapons and armor makes it so much fun. Shad does try to appear in as many videos as he can, with this new content it does mean fewer talking-heavy videos but Shad does still lead those when they appear. Also Shad's health is what pushed him to hire additional hosts because he wouldn't be able to do all of this testing himself.

I think a foil would be a good weapon for that, you can still roast hot dogs on it as well!

if wearing chain mail, do not put your back against obstacles.

or a big hammer or heavy weapon basically blunt force damage one you break leg bone or something its over

Until you run into the guy with chain mail made of aluminum pop tabs.

Prickers come in handy when frolicking.

This makes one more reason for the rogue to go after the silverware.

Stiletto or fine poinard

Blunt force tends to win out in most cases. Even if you don't penetrate the armor, you're still at minimum knocking the wind out of them, knocking them down, dislocating a limb, or giving them a concussion, at maximum you've just caved someone's skull or ribcage in. Piercing's overrated. Hammers and maces are where it's at. It's only when you get to metal vehicle hulls that blunt force starts losing its effectiveness at human capacities.

Listen to my great idea i invented a weapon so versatile it deals with any type of armor. Its called a poleaxe can slash, crush and stab. Isn't it wonderful?

@Dingus_Khaan you are overestimating blunt force trauma, or rather the ability to apply it with handweapons against an opponent with armour, even flexible armour with padding. Firstly the vast majority of blunt force trauma found on even early mediviel battlefield dead is in the head and neck region. Torso blunt force trauma injuries are almost not existant, and almost exclusively the shoulder area. Also note bladed wounds are more common than blunt force trauma wounds (and wounds on the back are more common than wounds on the front, for all wound types). The primary sources also claim that even basic armours of peasants were effective against blunt force trauma (obviously not useing those exact words) except for blows to the heads (and to a lesser extent arms and legs). And lastly we see blunt force weapons remained the minority. Most weapons were either purely cut and thrust, or cut thrust and blunt force. Pure blunt force remained the exception and thus could not have been the best option (especially since they were relatively cheap to make).

out of the gate i was all about finding a stabbing/piercing weapon that could bypass them, and my opinion hasn't cahnged one bit therefor i think the goedendag would be a good piercing weapon that is trivial to produce and the extra weight and purchase on the longer stick worked wit the hand palms probably can help overcome ribcages/cartilage on (in) your subjects as well as bring some extra range it's basically a dagger/spear hybrid, and you can play with the lengths a bit to get what you like but my version would still be a side weapon for the execution, not the main gig to defend yourself or find a way to get into your position where you can stab them, so it wouldn't be too polearm-like preferably something with not to much wide tapering toward the sick, but long and reasonably even profile beyond the sharp tip, if you dont'even attempt to exert outward force on the links to rty and break them, but rather go all in on getting in the spaces between with a long not too brittle blade, i have no doubt you could jab that bitch in 10-15 centimeters quite easily, it won't get stuck as hard in the mail so probably helps retrieving the bastard a tad easier too i haven't seen a goedendag in the tests, but there's way more purchase on one of those than tines or some smaller dagger, so i will keep believing it's the best in 1v1 fights against chainmail, cheap and trivial to make by unskilled workers, and it's probably a lot less often deflected because of its mass and purchasewhen you do decide to handpalm that bitch in the halberd was way more versatile though in crowd control in case there are more things to deal with, but in groups you may want to consider ballistics and other position tactics to split them up rout them or pick them off as an opener lol

​@@matthiuskoenig3378On the other hand, there's a reason poleaxes had some sort of mashy bit so often, including mashy bits about as flat as a meat tenderizer. I suspect that was specifically for keeping somone on the ground while you're looking for an opportunity to spike 'em. Even if it doesn't bruise or anything it's still just a lot of force coming down on someone with a big lever like that.

I expected that. Chainmail is a great thing but there is a lot of air in it. A narrow, pointy piece of metal is an ideal thing to go through the gaps.

If mail was of denser weave, as usual in most periods, it most probably would't work so great. No idea about usual dimensions of medieval forks, but if fork is roughly 4 mm to 4mm squarish crossection like mine, it would somehow readily fit inside one 5mm ID ring (very common) except that there would be also 4 other rings inside that one, putting resistance.

The knights had to take care, defend, deal justice, be noble, go to war, do the math and make new contacts. The subjects had to make food and more men and obey, also build walls and things, make weapons, and obey. So society could grow and not everything falls to depravity. But when the nobles were not adequate for the job or cruel and dumb and this lead to avoidable BS too often....well, an angry mob is an angry mob, and a farmer needs tools and an artisan does too. Not even plate armor can help you when they gather in the night and bring the torches, only god... But don't tell the peasants :)

True, but a bodkin point on a heavy war-bow or crossbow still does a pretty good job of making it through.

Was proved historicaly in crusades period. European crusaders armoured with heavy riveted chainmail were quite resistant to eastern bows.

Don't forget knights also wearing gambeson underarmor, and there were reports from Saladin about knights with up to ten arrows stuck in the chainmail and that knights feeling well

​@@the_inquisitive_inquisitorEh......not really. Todd from Todd's workshop talked about this.

That's a bit harder to find

Lamellar mate lamellar it was the entirety of asias favorite for several reasons

Not just asia, eastern europe too

Brigindine armor is good to have also.

Nothing beats plot armor.

As I recall, Frodo was wearing that beneath any clothing with no padding underneath to absorb any trauma. So even if the Mithril itself held up, it's shoving a ton of force on a very small area and Frodo was pinned back against a wall. The mithril is unyielding, the wall is solid stone, but there's a little fleshy being between those two things. He'd have had crushed organs and broken bones. He should have been wearing some kind of padding between the armor and his skin.

In the books it was a spear thrown by an orc... Much more believable.

In the books, the maille was still mithril and still impenetrable. However, there were no Trolls fought in Moria. It was an orc that stabbed Frodo, and it still knocked him unconscious with blunt force trauma alone. In terms of how armor would work, pretty accurate, though if it was a troll and especially if Frodo was pinned, like in the movie, he would be dead, crushed between the weapon and the wall.

That troll looked real heavy and strong and very fine mail does little to spread the force of impact (that's why you wear a gambeson) so my guess is hobbit shish kebab. The mail would just wrap itself around the spearhead and pierce poor Frodo.

Likely similar to the arrows that penetrated.

They still have to deal with the mail and padding, the former helps distrubtr the force alittle. Primary sources claim mail was actualy quite effective against Maces, which were actually ment to be used against heads and necks.

@@matthiuskoenig3378Once again, very few references to substantial padding under mail, the vast majority of depictions and descriptions of what was worn under being plain tunics.

That was Fe mail. They didn't use aluminum or brass.

Yes more of the King of the battlefield please.

Punching was pretty much distinct from "drifting" as well. AFAIU Punching all the way trough indeed, removed more material and weakened the structure, while punching tiny hole and then gently pushing the material aside with a drift created way stronger riveting. Of course it was also even more time consuming. Another weak point of Indian mail is the ugly way in which overlap is done, particularly the glaring space between the laps. Not tight at all, and again, in stark contrast with most of actual stuff from all times and period. Incidentally it also created the trope/meme that mail was brutal on hair and beard, catching it a lot, while historical mail doesn't seem to do it a lot. Other than that. there's plenty of heavily flattened historical mail though, so it's not necessarily completely a -historical feature. Obviosuly, the main catch is that most of heavily flattened rings were flattened from wire WAY thicker initially, so fiinal result wasn't such comically pliable "can tab" ring. But really, construction details aside, most of historical mail was simply of way tighter or heavier weave, usually both. It makes all the difference in the world, really. With 9mm internal diameter, like that of most commercial mail, historical mail would usually have chunky rings, like 1.6mm at minimum, often up to 2.5 or something like that! This mail seems to be something like heavily flattened 17 gauge, or something, usual stuff. Historical mail from such thin wire would usually have rings of 6mm ID, and down, often as low as 3.5 mm. The advantage of such a loose weave will be obviously armor being lightweight, at the cost of protection. It's kind of wasted on those mail shirts though, as they are usually very baggy, so weight quite a lot despite light construction. Comparing this mail to something, like, say, Roman mail from Piquia, which was composed out of rings 4.7 to 6.1 mm ID, and wire 0.85mm to 1.7mm thick, and 1.8mm wide is like comparing plate armor that's 1mm thick to the one that's 3mm thick. The lighter stuff can actually have superior riveting and of superior craftsmanship, while heavier one is shoddy, and the heavier one will be still way more protective, it's simple physics.

@@lscibor To be fair, the majority of medieval mail was that the majority of the rings are punched rather than riveted. Only the 5th binding ring had to be riveted since the others were solid. The really thin stuff was speculated to have been worn thin as a lot of the edges near the rivets are very smooth.

@@brainplay8060 Pretty much all 4 in 1 mail (so probably like 99.5% of mail in general) was exactly 50% solid and 50% riveted rings. You cannot make if any other way, every single link has to connect to 4 others Row of riveted, followed by row of solid. Different orientations are rare And solid rings were usually punched, and usually somehow flattened compared toriveted, but not always.