When did AEW's decline start? | Wrestling Observer Live 

"There's no such thing as long term booking anymore. It's week-to-week." What an incredibly stupid thing to say. I'm sorry - no, wait, I'm not sorry - that is just monumentally freaking stupid. Long-term booking is one of the most important ingredients to satisfying wrestling. No wonder I went from loving AEW to being completely indifferent about it.

Death by a thousand cuts. You can give WWE, Punk and others credit, but AEW had many, many flaws from the start that were never addressed and just became worse.

Cody leaving. Punk drama. Roster bloating causes AEW to lose its identity as pushing young, fresh talent. Vince out, HHH in. Tony’s booking: Minimal thought and planning turned into zero. “Family business” mentality: Tony has literally three AEW titles plus Fulham and Jags responsibilities. Hire staff and delegate like a real business. We all should love Tony for his passion and starting AEW. It’s unfortunate the fans are going to be disappointed since he doesn’t appear to want to adjust like any good CEO would.

Stupid booking and cm punk leaving

When you 2 started doing those "Punk got Cabana fired" rumors Stop acting like you dont know what happen lol

I think if CM Punk and The Elite would've worked together, this would've been a HUGE storyline for AEW. It's too bad that never happened

For me personally, it started with Punk's media scrum as that was a look behind the curtain that did huge damage to the image that I had of the company and of many of the characters involved. I imagine that I was by far not the only one who felt that way.

NOW you’re asking this question??

I would say it accelerated with "the devil" storyline

The afraid for my life comment killed it.

It is a numerous amount of things. Cody leaving Tony Khan buying ROH having to many belts also Brawl Out and Brawl In and firing CM Punk.

The decline started when Brawl Out happened, and Punk got fired.

The overrun argument is so funny because there are all these well-thought out arguments but I bet the truth is just that they have no idea how to format an actual TV show so they just go longer than they should.

When Vince was pushed out power/triple h taking over creative is when the decline slowly started & punk being fired was just the nail in the coffin.

When Cody left shoud've been a red flag

Cody and Punk were devastating losses for AEW.

A real “who shot Hannibal?” moment for this channel.

It Started once Cody left as an EVP

I am so glad that Bryan realizes what viewership really is. I have never seen ESPN brag about the 18-49 demo, when they release viewership numbers on sporting events.

Half the roster are dwarves, no one takes them seriously.

When Cody left. Not preventing Brawl Out from happening. Siding with the Elite over Punk. Firing Punk. Letting Chris Jericho run wild all over Dynamite. Realistically we could keep going 🤷🏾‍♂️

I thought the decline started as soon as the build to the first Forbidden Door. All the momentum stopped while Punk was hurt, MJF was out, and a bunch of short-term storylines involving outsiders started.

Tony is rich he sucks at everything else the end.

They absolutely refuse to admit it was the night Hangman cut the promo on Punk

When they started booking for Uncle Dave's opinion.

The purchase of ROH with Revolution 2022 being the peak of AEW.

Blaming the wwe is so comical. The fact that both nitro and raw were doing monster numbers for years on end shows that if you have a good product, then people will watch both. Dynamite does not have a good show, and so people stopped watching. Raw and nitro were on at the same time on the same day. WWE having great success is not an excuse. Period.

When he picked the non drawing Bucks over an actual star CM Punk

when WWE started getting hot that's when AEW'S decline started also CM punk getting fired and returning to WWE at Survivor Series last year and also when vince mcmahon got forced out of WWE and triple H took full control of creative there's so many reasons how AEW'S decline started and it's not getting better anytime soon tony khan and his booking is the problem.

Tony Khan and the executives in charge of AEW made the mistake of not scaling infrastructure and their processes according to the growth in size of the company. When they started, they had a roster of 64 plus whatever office and production staff for two hours weekly plus PPVs. In a year, they doubled the roster’s size but didn’t update their infrastructure to match their growth with an additional hour of TV weekly and Tony Khan taking on almost all the booking responsibilities. This is when we started to see smaller wrestlers showing discontent from lack of work. This was an unsustainable formula as they continued to add more talent but didn’t improve the merchandise, the travel, etc., and Khan was taking on so much stress. The booking started to weaken and then they added ROH which has not really helped company in any meaningful way. A lot of this was masked by the excitement around a new company and Punk arriving only helped that at the beginning. Cody was the first major crack, then Punk more or less put his fingers into the crack and pulled so there was now an undeniable massive issue (whether he was right or wrong is irrelevant). Tony’s mind has since seemed to be focused on the business side now that he’d neglected which has resulted in the worsening booking. He’s going to eventually need to pick one route and find someone to run the other side.

The declined started after Cody left

Cody leaving started it, Punk being fired cemented it. I understand they had to fire Punk, but other than the nichest of a niche audience, not a single soul gives a flying fuck about Luke Perry’s kid. Only time he gets a reaction is when they make reference to Punk.

When Hangman went into business for himself on Punk. That started it…

When Tony stopped listening to other people. Clearly he thinks he's still booker of the year.

There is a quarter by quarter chart going around on the internet and it shows AEW decline started right after Cody left. It started to fall after Cody then after Punk left it plummeted off a cliff. Tony chose to back the wrong wrestlers. Also I hate the excuse that WWE being good hurt AEW they don't even air on the same night.

When a certain billionaire left and the product became better and now having sellouts that’s breaking records

Punk about to headline a WWE pay per view. Punk has exemplified the " when life hands you lemons, make lemonade" concept. Whereas, everyone else from Brawl Out has declined.

There was a noticeable drop right after Revolution. Dynamite had been steadily losing viewers but there was a 100k drop overnight there. Not sure if Sting's retirement meant that much to a certain demographic, or if fans got sucked into WrestleMania season and they only have time for one show... But March seems to be when AEW went from regularly in the 800s with a shot at a milly, to regularly in the 600s with a shot at 800.

Cody... His departure confirmed what everyone suspected.

The Devil storyline

That was me who sent in the question and it was my first time so I’m buzzing it gets a highlight video on the channel.

The explosion that didn't happen in the Barb Wire match. It didn't go downhill exactly from that point. It's more it raised an eyebrow about how amateurish this place might be. No matter what anyone thinks about WWE, they are too professional to let something as embarrassing as that happen nowadays.

My " F this I'm outta here" moment with AEW was when Orange Cassidy and Penta traded back and forth Canadian destroyers.

It started when the greatest AEW wrestler of all time Brian Pillman Jr left for WWE and became Lexus King

Turns out 5 star matches don’t sell tickets like the marks said they would.

Tony Khan needs to realize, whether he likes it or not, AEW is wrestling but it is also a television show. And you do yourself no favors trying to pretend otherwise.

The decline started when WWE did the mass releases and AEW began snatching them up. AEW used to be a breath of fresh air but then all the NXT wrestlers they defeated started appearing on the show

I agree with Bryan's 2nd point. The week to week booking became absolute nonsense. Cody's long term feuds were the few that made sense. Now it's just endless "bangers" for bangers' sake.

Brawl Out 2022

The first implosion between the Elite & CM Punk, the backstage footage was the nail in the coffin as it showed Punk was still their biggest draw.

I stopped watching AEW after watching Darby Allin and Nick Wayne beat Gates of Agony clean. I was done. Suspension of disbelief was ruined.

The "fingerpoke" was when they aired the Brawl Out footage on TV, but some forget that TK did that in a desperation attempt to pop ratings during a skid at the time. Which it did... for one night. They haven't reached that number since. The decline started a few months before that. MJF was a star but not a brand-carrying level star at champion and TK's behavior in interviews and on Twitter turned him off to a lot of fans online.

When people finally realised it's All Friends phony Wrestling where these Indy darlings are NOT even trying to make money but rather waste and spend a billionaire's son's bank account until his daddy keeps giving him money to waste.

The decline started as soon as Cody left, It gave the perception that AEW wasn't the place to be anymore.

Fans like backstage stuff but alot of AEWs drama seemed high schoolish and self-induced. I think Tony found out quick its hard ro deal with all those different personalities.

It went to shit when their biggest star Marko Stunt left 😢

For me it all started with the build up to the first Forbidden Door, followed by that MJF promo where he called Tony Khan a mark, and then ROH being involved. May have timeline wrong there but that's when I remember starting to lose interest

When people realized “not being WWE” isn’t an excuse for god awful creative, lack of business structure and not having a real boss in place.

It wasn’t one or even three things. AEW got me watching wrestling again after tapping out around 2003. It wasn’t perfect when it started, but it had potential. I think all of AEW’s many problems can fall into two baskets: The nonsensical booking and the inmates running the asylum.

Like everybody else, I think the decline may have started right around when AEW canceled Clobberin' Time.

There were ailments from the beginning, but the biggest thing that stung AEW for me is the perception problem. For a long while, it was the nice place, the good place, the one that treated it's staff right and where people were happy to come to work. But with the issues in the way that the company was ran at times, it's clear this perception would never last and once it wars off..... WWE also helped them out in this. Under Vince, we now know it was a different place than so many people will attest to it being now, and in 2019 and during the pandemic, there were mass releases at a time when people were already low, seemingly to try to secure a sale to line the pockets of the people in charge. It was PR suicide, and it made AEW look so much better by comparison. I'm adamant that the biggest AEW ever was, was signing Adam Cole and Bryan Danielson and having them debut the same night. Once again, it's the perception. You take a guy that everyone loves in Danielson, and one that basically ran NXT for like 2 years+ and still had his whole career ahead of him, and you put the middle finger up to the establishment. AEW had all the momentum. Turn the clock forward, the Punk stuff really fractured the company. It may just be a case of similar timeline but the decline for me is definitely within this like 9 month window, probably closer to the Brawl Out.

Brawl Out wasn’t a cause, it was an effect of mismanagement by Tony and the EVPs

I love how Dave and Bryan both got statistics sent to them detailing how the overrun loses viewers and Bryan looked at it wondering what the problem could be and Dave of course somehow did number gymnastics and spun it as a positive somehow. The guy is literally nuts sometimes

AEW had glaring weaknesses from the beginning-- all the shit Cornette pointed out from the rip. Over time as the excitement and newness has worn off, it's simply sunk under the weight of itself.

Ahhhh......Maybe when they started out opening up with Sunny Kiss vs Joey Nutella? 😖👈

Tony ran out of steam creatively after the conclusion of the Hangman arc. Punk vs MJF was so good it propped up the company for a few more months but creatively the dude lost it and never got it back.

The decline started in 2019. The battle royal with all the comedy wrestlers

Guys like orange Cassidy being booked like prime John cena definitely turned people away.

The decline started. When TK kept collecting ex WWE wrestlers like Matt Cardona collects actions figures. AEW has STOPPED being the alternative to WWE. Instead, it has become WWE 2.0.

If everyone was honest. The decline happened when Vince left the first time. WWE fans who were starting to get tired of what WWE was doing, were giving aew a chance. Once Vince left, those fans went back to WWE. You did not hear so many complaints about ex wwe guys going to aew until Vince left

1- Vince was taken out, so fans who hated WWE in the 2010s thought they'd give it another chance 2- The brawl out incident painted AEW in a very bad way regardless of whether you think Punk was unprofessional during that press conference or not 3- The woeful job the company is doing with marketing and promotion. They just don't do enough to spread the word about their product and that is baffling to me If you think a booking decision here or there is what's causing the decline, or that people are simply tired of seeing Chris Jericho, then you just need an excuse to hate on the product because it has been booked considerably better in the last year or so. Not perfect by any means, just better. Tony can fire Jericho the next day and the ratings won't budge. Tony can acquire Drew McIntyre and Kevin Owens right now and the ratings will rise a bit before plummeting down again. Heck, I don't know if most of you remember, but Punk's Collision wasn't exactly getting that much more viewers than what it's getting now, but the attendance numbers were better but that can be said for Dynamite as well. The is primarily a marketing issue in addition to WWE being on such a roll that casual wrestling fans don't need/don't have an additional 5-6 hours to spend weekly on another wrestling product. Think about it for a second, and put all the tribalism aside, do you really think most fans have the time to watch RAW, SD, NXT, Dynamite, Collision, and Rampage in a single week? That's 13 hours dedicated to wrestling per week, that's insane. Of course fans will pick and choose, which is why not even NXT gets ratings that are anywhere close to what RAW and SD get. AEW should find a way to get more butts in seats, even if it means giving away freebie tickets at some point. Try to fill up at least half the stadium, that looks so much better on camera than what we see now.

It started when Cody left, picked up steam when Omega left tv due to injury, and imploded when Punk left. You lost the three people in the company that could take Tony's brain dead ideas and actually book long term stories around them.

I absolutely maintain that ROH and 2022 in general was what started the decline. In that year alone we had: -CM Punk coming in and killing Hangman Page's momentum as a main eventer when he could have very easily carried the company on his back for 1-2 years until losing to MJF. -The interim title mess between Jon Moxley and CM Punk, then Thunder Rosa and Toni Storm. -Cody & Brandi Rhodes leaving, and as a result a lot of harmony and positive morale going away. -the ROH Buyout, which hamstrung Tony Khan's booking because now he had to essentially run 2 companies now, and all the talent that came with that (even though The Kingdom and The Briscoes were doing just fine in TNA, and Tony could have just not hired them) -Wardlow getting squandered (who to blame for that is up to your own judgement) -Guys like Scorpio Sky and Miro who were on an upward trajectory being seemingly erased overnight with no explanation. -Adam Cole's injury at Forbidden Door I. -Brawl Out resulting in a bunch of storylines being dropped without explanation or conclusion. -Chris Jericho getting MASSIVELY overexposed in a ridiculous and nonsensical way. -Guys like Andrade being relegated to being background characters.

When the Elite showed they cared more about their egos than the betterment of AEW.

For me it was the exploding barbed wire death match that was the true start. It was such a joke and so minor league. There were BIGGER things, for sure. But that’s where the needle first started pointing down. Multiple underwhelming promises that were massively oversold and seeing hot starts get thrown in the deep freezer. Punk & Cody leaving, etc.

Nobody wants to admit how bad the first show was and that Tony constantly pushing small guys who aren't over damages their product more than anything else... It's been on the decline since day 1, Cody leaving, Punk leaving, Vince leaving WWE and other things compounded it... The worst for me though is Jericho, everything he's touched is awful... Then there's Edge... What a waste of money that signing was too... Also booking MJF switching heel/babyface constantly has made him worse as well... I could go on...

When cocaine Khan chose the tree house club and Tarzan boy over his only draw. It's hilarious

I one hundred percent agreed that Tony Khan buying ROH and having a bunch of ROH Titles on the program was the cause before the decline. I blame that more than Cody and Punk leaving for their individual reasons

Showing the punk backstage footage was the key moment

I believe it started when the match between Kenny Omega and Bryan Danielson at AEW Grand Slam Dynamite in September 2021 ended in a time limit draw. Yes, Match Outcomes can hurt a promotion in terms of popularity. See the outcome of Hulk Hogan vs. Nick Bockwinkel at Super Sunday 1983 which started the decline and eventual demise of the AWA.

“AEW has become the worst of the WWE and the worst of the indies”

Starting in 2025 AEW should just do a hard reset

It started the day Tony Khan decided to start a wrestling company using his pocket money

Decline happen well before Vince left that has nothing to do with it. AEW crash cause tony can’t book nor does he not know how to handle he’s roster

Hangman winning the title was essentially the end of the storytelling framework that the EVPs and presumably Jericho had set up for Tony Khan to follow. Everything afterwards was scattergun booking by Tony. Even if you didn't realize it in the first half of 2022 because they had so many stars, the show went downhill booking-wise from Full Gear 2021 onwards

I think Cody leaving was the start, the Punk drama and Vince’s ouster accelerated it. Tony saying he books for the “sickos” perfectly encapsulates where they are now. That’s who he’s trying to appeal to, but they aren’t exactly a large number of fans.

Uncle Dave is not going to like this

Cody leaving was probably the point they started to lose momentum. It felt like he was a really stabilising voice in that company, after he left it all seemed to go crazy with belts, belts, belts, massively increasing the roster beyond what they can feasibly use in any way, sloppy booking etc.

There were lots of signs WWE was back as the undisputed big leagues before it happened, put Punk’s press conference destroyed their reputation, and they still haven’t recovered.

I remained optimistic longer than most about AEW. The Punk situation was horrible, of course, but at the end of it I felt that if they played their cards right in the following months, with hot storylines and strong individual performances, they realistically could have rebounded from it. Instead they jobbed out Jay White to a one-legged MJF and gave us the Devil storyline.

The decline started when Tony Khan decided not to back Cody Rhodes when Cody and the other VPs started to split. Cody was the brain and mastermind from the beginning with all in. He had the knowledge, he had the background, just did not have the money and funding. Tony Khan says hello. Once Rhodes was gone, all you had were 3 vp’s with huge egos which got even bigger at that point and Tony who is inexperienced and naive. All that adds up to the circus we have been watching unfold over the last couple years.

When they had a legless man in a Battle Royal...

This isn’t just baseless “hate”. I’m saying this soberly without relishing it. The seeds were sown for its demise from the start. It’s designed to get “instant gratification” pops. It’s comedy and flips. The “violence” is so beyond the pale of what’s realistic and yet happens constantly and in matches up and down the card, that great dives and “spots” lost their luster long ago. You can’t eat ice cream every day, for every meal. It’s good to have some protein and veggies from time to time. Not everyone needs to shine in every match. Sometimes youve gotta smash someone over. Champions shouldn’t go 20 minutes with undercard guys every time. Bret Hart and 123 Kid wasn’t every week, and it made sense. When you make everything a joke, there’s no distinction between top guys and job guys,and everyone just wants to “get their s**t in”…this is the inevitable result. There has to be some vision that comes from the top. You don’t have to run things like Vince did, but you do have to ensure that your performers and matches and stories maintain a consistent vision of what your brand of pro wrestling is. The people that were saying it five years ago were trying to warn AEW that the underlying philosophy was flawed and this would be the outcome. Everyone called them haters who were stuck in the past. If they don’t course correct and learn how to do pro wrestling, AEW will one day just be in the past as well.

Dynamite ratings plummet every time the Bucks are on screen, so I don't think them going away after Brawl Out was a factor.

When Cody left

That tournament in November and December for a title unification hurt. Tournaments don't sell well in the United States. It went on too long and brought the show to a standstill.

Cody Rhodes leaving because he kept that tie to the old school and with Cody Rhodes success it proves storytelling is a lot more important than just the in ring action

I think it's pretty obvious at this point that CM Punk was the worst thing to happen to AEW. He got a brief bump for the company, but that didn't translate to fans who actually stuck around. His performances were lackluster and he constantly got injured. He created a toxic environment backstage and brawled with other wrestlers repeatedly. He publicly buried the company, gave more ammunition to the already relentless army of trolls who have f*ck-all better to do with their time than hate another wrestling company for existing, and demoralized everyone inside AEW and out... the performers, the executives, the fans, and the media all just deflated any excitement or faith in the product after Phil's bullsh*ttery. Yes we can point at other things that also coalesced around that time - Cody getting booed out of the company, purchase of ROH, shift in writing, the shuffle that everyone seems lost in, Kenny's illness - but I think Phil kinda' overshadows all of it (and probably caused a bunch of it). And the hardest part of all of this is that it's difficult to make any kind of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism of AEW because the well has been so poisoned by the aforementioned sh*thead trolls who relentlessly attack AEW and its wrestlers just for existing. I was a fan of AEW before AEW and I certainly have my list of things they could have done better, but you can't even talk about it when f*cking online neckbeards are constantly polluting any discussion about AEW.

I "left" AEW when the Forbidden Door started flooding the roster. It was too much at once. 2019 and 2020 were great stuff.

The decline started when the AEW fight Forever game bombed. That pissed off a lot of people