Speaking of listening, I used to run really song sets with my mate in uni, he's a stick player. At one point I found myself running over to him, hitting a jab and intently listening to whether he would press AD on his stick. Then I'd just TRM him. I feel a little bit bad.
If your interested purely in the vocabulary give infil's fighting game glossary a look it shows the different uses in language between games. Some concepts have the different names across games but may have a more generic synonym that most fgc people would understand.
@@odinofawesome2885 I do read that a lot! Here though I was using the word "vocabulary" in the broader sense of means to convey information, like the low hit exclamation mark mentioned in the video.
Your point about why people don't like 1 button DPs was spot on. All your frametraps, tick throws, and pressure resets go out the window when you fight someone who likes spamming it. Your offense has to boil down to "true blockstring and back away, punish DP if they whiff it, anti air if they jump". That's just not fun for me.
Great video as always, and really made me reassess how structured pressure can be. I legit felt a moment of enlightenment when I realized how much information you get just from whether you got a counter hit or not when running frame traps. It's one small bit of info, but reveals a ton about your opponent's defensive habits. I wish I had this video a few months ago lol
I can't even read those messages lol I can't play and process them at the same time they are so out of the way. I do like the exclamation mark though! that's a lot more readable.
Insanely well written, narrated and edited. It's these little things you get to learn and think about that makes a FG journey so fullfilling. Well done!
What an incredibly well put together video..... and I would know.... I've played Persona 4 Arena..... It was structured so well that something that I had never thought about just pieced together in my mind very naturally. Keep up the good work.
I used to not understand either. Then i found my calling in terms of fighting games. Dragon Ball FighterZ. I sucked at the game, and got beat the shit out of online, but i really liked the games mechanics and i found dragon ball really cool at the time. So for the first 20 hours of my game time, i didn’t leave training mode. I kept on practicing, and practicing, and i still sucked. I plateau’ed giga early on since i didn’t know what i was doing. Then i looked up a single combo guide for Vegito Blue. And as soon as i learned this combo, the whole game opened up to me. I knew what i was doing, i knew how to lab out new combo’s, from my time in training mode i already knew how to mix up my opponents and now that i knew the universal combo i can actually get damage out of it, from the universal i was able to lab out new character specific combos, i found a new TOD with Trunks that i don’t think anyone else has found, holy fucking shit Gogeta blue is a fountain of TOD’s i find a new one every time i pick this character, if you just have enough motivation to look up that few guides and learn the combo’s or the mixups in said guides it lets you learn the game. And once you learn the game, then you can MASTER the game.
I got to master in sf6 with four characters so far, and I never liked running pressure because I thought it was just guessing for the most part. but this video, along with the previous one about offense is really opening up my eyes to the art of getting people to get hit by what I'm doing to them, instead of constantly doing the same thing until they adapt and only then trying something else.
honestly, these are little details i never even notice because i'm in the heat of battle going to have to rewire my brain to look out for these, so i can better rewire my brain to fight people
Unrelated but you’re kind of an inspiration for me when it comes to fighting games and making youtube videos one day my vids shall be as great as yours
I didn't notice the exclamation marks specifically, but I did immediately twig to "They're getting hit low, they were trying to jump away" as the pattern that let you get very reliable reads on the grab The information presented can be leveraged in many ways, to get back to the counter hit example in SF6, if you KEEP getting counter hits on pressure, you can learn and assume that they really consistently mash for abare, and utilize more devastating frame traps or be prepared to really pull out horrifying CH only combos, the inverse of what the initial "people will mix it up" assumption gives, yet learned from similar info
It must've felt really good to land that command grab too after you conditioned them to jump. Great vid! I didn't realize how helpful the messages could be. I was more primitive in my approach to reading opponents, relying on outcomes and feeling, never realizing the game is telling me what I'm looking for.
its not 1 on 1 with what this video is about but they way you discuss the importance of knowing whether someone is inputting a DP a certain way reminded me of SKD's offensive structure video with how you should be punishing inputs instead of the action itself, but you put it in a much more digestible format. Great video!
I about lost my mind when I heard the hub world music for smt 4 apocalypse in the background as someone who recently discovered the series. I thought my 3ds was on.
This is more like whispering I feel like games could make more readable and telling signs of stuff like this Its good to have but i think it ought to be better
i have been trying to watch for patterns in what the other player is trying to do but i haven't thought of trying to look for the counter hit message and using that to try figuring out what they will do next. i primarily play street fighter and mortal kombat but the principal seems like it is universal
I realized I absolutely need sound when playing fighting games. I tried playing with no sound and felt like I was unable to see the moves coming, even if they were right there and light travels faster than sound. I also tried a blind match with a friend. I realized that, even if I didn't know for certain the distance from the opponent or my spot on the screen, I could tell exactly what was going on using only the sound as reference. I guess I do listen to my videogames, huh.
The whole "1-button DP" spiel pretty much explains why people get so angry at modern in SF6. Sure, they might take more interactions to kill you because their damage is worse and their ways to open you are more limited, but the latter also applies to you because of 1-button specials and supers. Jump-ins? Frametraps? Reaction tests? Stuff that may work against a good chunk of players with enough mental stack on them is shut down by one button that won't succumb that easily to mental stack. Fighting modern is far from impossible, but it isn't fun that the game tells you from the moment the match starts "no jumping, no fake STRINGS, no testing reactions, no jaywalking"
thats one thing I dont like about tekken, the only indicator the game has is a zoom in whenever you hit a move that launches on counter hit. You just have to assume the reason that the opponent got hit, maybe they tried to low block against a mid, maybe they were mashing but the move has no special effect on counter hit, maybe they tried to sidestep and got hit anyway (which can make you have to do a different combo sometimes). I cant tell if I got punished or if they hit me with a mid when I was expected a high or low punish.
A 1 jab on counter hit wont play a sound or zoom in (not sure what youre talking about exactly), what you're actually looking for is a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT hit effect, that usually has a red line going through it. Some SPECIFIC moves will match the color of whatever hit effect color you chose in your character customization. But there is a kind of line after effect. This is really obscure and obtuse but you NEED TO KNOW THIS because some strings will become natural combos only when the first attack lands as a counter hit, but youll have to pay attention to the hit effect amidst looking at everything else. Yoshimitsus b2,1 normally doesnt launch, but if the b2 counter hits it does. No effect but the weird faint line appears. Its actually pretty hard to tell but it is there.
@@bkarr8525 i never said that jabs cause zoom ins on CH in tekken, i said only moves that cause a launch on CH like reina b4. i guess the hit effect can be used, but a 'counter' message would be a lot easier as someone who plays guilty gear
@@a_shrxydud never implied that you did, im just saying that universally the sounds or camera effects for counter hits wont play for every move. im not personally saying that the way it is great, i actually find it annoying asf. Though an announcer would be sick, the "presentation" of tekken typically tries to keep it realistic (though a game with a playable bear character trying to do this is funny) I only wrote this to help you or anyone who reads the comments out, as realizing the distinct hit effect helped a lot. The game is not very apparent about most things.
It could be better fs, but there are definite cues. Your opponent literally explodes with a gunshot sound when you counter hit them, plus frames are pretty obvious bc your character tends to reel back on block, which also makes punishable moves a lot easier to feel. I think t8 does a great job of making you FEEL those things rather than just saying them on the screen.
@@fruityparameq @yaboytony3028 No gun shot sound plays when you counter hit someone with a move that doesnt have a knockdown property ON counterhit. A 1 jab on counter hit wont play that sound, what you're actually looking for is a SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT hit effect, that usually has a red line going through it. Some SPECIFIC moves will match the color of whatever hit effect color you chose in your character customization. This is really obscure and obtuse but you NEED TO KNOW THIS because some strings will become natural combos only when the first attack lands as a counter hit, but youll have to pay attention to the hit effect amidst looking at everything else. Its actually pretty hard to tell. I main Yoshimitsu, and this is especially important with his b2,1 launch string. If the b2 lands as a counter hit, the opponent will be launched if you use the 1 extension. I might do a video explaining this, but also looking at your characters reaction to moves on block doesn't always work either. in some cases you can react while you're character is in a long block stun animation, and others you cant. You just have to try it and remember it next time in those cases. Edit : Did some testing with yoshi Yoshimitsus spinning back fist (f2) leaves the opponent +4 on block, but the animation actually lasts longer that the animation of his blocked db2 (which leaves them +5)
fighting games for is just like solving the problem with the opponent gameplan is basically math. you need to find the solution in order to succeed the problem.i like playing fighting games because of all the problem solving comes to mind like how to fight against someone who always do dp or im getting pressure but what should i do to stop it do i dp if not use super do i have to block until his/her minus and so on. its whats fun for me to play fighting even though i mostly just go guns and blazing on the opponent not thinking whether or no i should do or dont.
SF6 fixed this by making you pick between modern instant buttons and classical motion inputs *before* you start the match. People can't mix and match on you.
When you're jumping, you have to release your crouch before doing so. You know, since you can't press up and down at the same time. This opens up opportunities to hit them before they leave the ground, since they're no longer blocking low.
@@wannabecinnabon But once they hit up-back(7) they're no longer blocking at all, and any hit will work during the prejump startup, right? The only difference is during 1>4>7 input you can hit them during the couple frames of 4, which won't matter because most attacks have enough active frames to last until they move to 7 so a mid would work just fine, right? The video made it seem like they'd just keep blocking somehow after committing to a jump if he hadn't used a low.
@@cornerdwarf In a lot of fighting games, even if you release back during a true blockstring, you will continue to block until a gap comes up. Also, even in ones that don't, you don't actually get to enter prejump because there aren't any gaps in the blockstring to even *start* jumping.
@@wannabecinnabon I think I've got it now! I tested both BBCF and Granblue and it seems the automatic block after the first one only works with mids, so you can try to hold jump earlier to get out once a blockstring is over, and as you said a low will punish you without even giving an opening to jump at all. I didn't realize that. Thank you for the help!
@@cornerdwarf The "auto block" for tight blockstrings can still block low if you hold down 2, even though you're not holding back anymore. This is used to fish for IBs without leaving crouching. This doesn't apply for jumping, but it's worth keeping in mind.
As a smash player, my fighting game doesn't talk. Instant dps are free, grabs as a mix-up are not used unless you're at least winning locals, blocks strings longer than 2 moves are fiction, everyone jumps out of block pressure and no one gets punished for it.
@@Alsry1 Sure but then that's just you getting punished for doing a reactable attack, the lack of motion input increases the consistency but I'd even say it's a good thing, it's more interesting to know that your opponent will probably be able to punish your slow move with a DP than them having 50% chance to pull it off and you gambling on their execution. And it's not like you can't do other things like add a frame or two to the DP startup to make them able to punish less stuff and easier to pressure safely. The point is that all moves have tradeoff in the form of frame data and if your game has instant DP you can balance them around that.
@@Laezar1 It's not about using a slow move. In granblue there's always gaps in pressure even if slow moves aren't being used because of how insane the pushback is. Meterless instant dps provide zero value, and only serve to make the experience miserable on offense as pressure basically cannot be run.
"Nobody uses the traditional DP motion in granblue for some reason" good! requiring "traditional" inputs from all players is fucking stupid! my issue is that people are always like "learning all the button combos for your character is step one" and a lotta fighting games are designed with that logic, but some of us don't have the bandwidth to memorize special move inputs like that (ADHD be a bitch you see). with "traditional" inputs I can remember 2 maybe 3 specials for a character, doesn't stop me from fucking reading a lot of my opponents like open books, or generally winning with normals and only thowing in the few moves I know for mix ups and counters, but it limits my ability to compete at high levels because "tradition is important" or some shit. anyway I finally got a graphics card that can run the copy of SF6 I bought at launch so I'm looking forward to learning "modern controls" on a game that doesn't run at 20fps and look like a bootleg SF4 clone. cool vid, cheers
