When Is A Pastor Disqualified? 

Mike Bickle should not be restored he should be put in prison.

These guys are so quick to "restore" the perpetrators. The victims are an afterthought at best. Sick.

Bickle should never be in any type of ministry again! Pray for his soul!

My husband works in the energy sector and the FTC. If he gets caught violating Trade Laws, he is fired immediately, on the spot, without the possibility of rehire. He knows it and conducts himself accordingly. Shocking to me is that we accept so much less of our Christian leaders.

Reporting the truth IS the needed thing for the church to be restored! Thank you

Far too many so called self appointed leaders who are crooked and not truly in Christ. Pure love of God does not produce this fruit.

I was involved in a church who was formed from a group called Ministers Fellowship International. It was supposed to be a system of accountability also. A place for Fallen Pastors to receive accountability and be restored etc etc. Most times after a period of restoration they were sent out to another church to commit SA again. My life and the life of my family and many others were completely destroyed by the lies coverup and abuse we received for speaking against Gods Anointed. When will the focus be on RESTORING the Victims of such Leaders??? It’s always on the Leaders and the Ministries they represent.

Ron makes excellent points about the secular workplace offering more stringent guidelines and punishments for abuse of power than the church often does. Great observation.

Thanks for this interview! Thanks for keeping this in the public eye. MB is just waiting for everyone to forget and move on so he can "minister" again in public. I say NEVER let this happen!

Thanks so much Julie Roys and Ron Cantor for your clarity and honesty .

@Julie Roys, THIS was excellent! Thank you

Who would ever, ever follow Mike Bickle, ever again??? Can parents ever trust him around their kids?? Only men would advocate for him back into ministry. The men that do want to bring him back need to examine their own moral standards. Failing to see the depth and gravity of this issue may actually disqualify them from ministry.

Pastors are held to a higher standard. Galatians 6:1 is not a get out of jail free card!

Julie you always give the most excellent quality of work!

Self appointed is one thing that disqualifies someone for sure. That as far as I am concerned applies to many!

If there is evidence of criminal behavior he should be charged.

Thank you so much for addressing this difficult subject!!!

Mike Bickle often times taught about the very things that disqualified him, that's what made him appear so innocent

When Morningstar took on the job of restoring Todd Bentley, a lot of the congregation left. Bentley got married to his mistress during this restoration, it did not work. MS should deal with their roach infestation.

So many of these guys are afraid to stand firm against sin. Because of the 501c3...and it's about money and this honor culture! God help the church! The real church.

Blessings Julie! Thank you for speaking out your work is so important🙏🏽❤️

Julie and Ron, thank you for an excellent and thorough presentation on this damaging situation.

Julie, this is such an excellent and important podcast. Thank you for addressing hard subjects and getting right interpretation of scripture applied to them. I think this is equipping the BoC. I pray this MB and IHOPKC horrific scandal results in righteousness, justice and maturity in the church.

Damage control by KV!!! Shameful

Thank you for this, Julie!

This is what happens when people don’t know how to rightly interpret and handle the Word of God. “Restore” doesn’t mean restore them to vocational ministry or a ministry role. It means restore them to a right relationship with Christ and others.

We need more righteous anger against the system Julie. Love people,but no mercy for the demonic sysyem holding Gods prople captive.

Where in Galatians 6 does it say "restoration" is refering to ministry leaders?? Is restoration pertaining to the restoration of an individual back to his or her righteous state or restoring back to the ministry? Notice Paul addressed to "brothers and sisters" and said if "someone" caught in sins. Paul wasn't addressing to the leadership. He was addressing to the congregation and said if "anyone among you". This is an example of taking a scripture out of context and applying it elsewhere to introduce confusion in the body of Christ.

THANK YOU JULIE AND RON !

Restoration to fellowship and the body of Christ is one thing but restoration to ministry is another thing entirely.

Why do we use the words moral failure? These words seem padded or cushioned. Call it what it is. The Word of God does.

Ah, narcissism. An insight that explains a lot. Thank you for that. Also, the discussion on how can you bring two or three witnesses when there's no one present except the abuser and the victim, which I've encountered personally being applied in broader application than a situation concerning an elder - your comments were very affirming and even healing for me regarding a church experience many years ago where I brought a serious issue to leadership who could not see beyond she said/he said.

This was so, so well done Julie. I especially appreciated Ron’s wise words toward the end in talking about the misuse of Matthew 18 and the appalling lack of accountability in the church for wolves and perpetrators! Amen ❤❤❤

This was a healthy discussion, not just a gossip session.

What's so upsetting to me is obviously what KV said, but more so the audience clapping and laughing. Idol worship on display.🤨😠 It's only when the sheep get up and walk away from these million dollar ministries can we take back the Gospel.

Vetting and preventative measures must be rigorously applied.

Thank you for your discussion on this topic. I think it’s especially important that we remind people that anyone can be reconciled to God when they repent. Reconciliation to ministry is another whole story and not the subject of that text.

I completely agree. Ted Haggard should be disqualified from leadership. Mike Bickle needs to disqualified from leadership Jim Baker needs to be disqualified from leadership. And all those that fall into sin. If we are going to be preaching the Word of God then we need to live by the word of God.

Sad that in this discussion there is little about the holiness and glory of our generous God being offended and grieved and how it cause the enemies of God to blaspheme. The church desperately needs a fresh vision of who God is.

There is a difference between repentance/restoration and being in authority again.

A pastor is disqualified anytime they fail to meet the qualifications (1 Timothy 3:1-8; Titus 1:5-9) or requirements (1 Peter 5:1-5) to be a pastor which are found in Scripture. It's not just one particular sin or type of sin; it's any sin that keeps them from meeting the biblical qualifications and/or requirements and renders them not "above reproach" as an example to follow and imitate. Now, the "duration" of disqualification is another issue entirely; that depends on multiple factors and is not just cut and dry or black and white. The reason is: (1) The qualifications and requirements for a pastor are all present tense in the Greek text, which means they are not referring to a person's past or future, but to the ongoing habitual actions, attitudes, and affections of the pastoral candidate right now in the present. (2) Further, the qualifications and requirements are relative to the congregation in which the pastor would serve. In other words, there are some pastors in some congregations who are qualified to serve there but would not be suited to serve somewhere else, at least at the present time. For example, a prisoner who is the pastor of a prison congregation, etc. (3) Lastly, the idea of being "above reproach" refers to being "blameless," generally speaking, in the eyes of the congregation that the person would lead as pastor. Being "above reproach" does not mean "perfect"; and, there will always be at least one person in every congregation who is a Judas or a Demas, and who will hate their pastor, but generally speaking, at a minimum, they must be viewed by the congregation they would serve as a godly example to follow because they are not presently violating those qualification and/or requirements. It's not rocket science, folks. It's pretty clear in Scripture. The problem is that people's "feelings" get involved and that clouds their discernment.

when a man has a predatory decades long behavior pattern, he is a wolf, not a shepherd, not a brother, but a dangerous person. There is no "re"storation, if there's nothing to go back to. Obviously, we don't exactly know when this predatory behavior started, perhaps as a teen , we only know since his twenties, so it's a life-long pattern. , The word "restore" is not the right word to use on someone who has not ever been in any place ever of trustworthy, reliable behavior but life-long predatory abusive manipulate behavior. Where is the point you want to "restore" him to? A wolf does not become a sheep. Even how MB captured wife is predatory. Wolves don't qualify

I'd say, Mike isn't even saved, so how can he be restored. The HOLY Spirit lives in a believer, and Mike exhibited no holiness, which means he does not have the Holy Spirit, which means he ain't saved.

Let us not forget! Proverbs 6:32-33 NKJV - 2 Whoever commits adultery with a woman lacks understanding; He who does so destroys his own soul. 33 Wounds and dishonor he will get, And his reproach will not be wiped away.

So much respect and appreciation for the two of you and the way you handled this topic.

You rock Julie. Thanks so much for this, great hearing from Ron as well 🙏

Kriss Vallotton apology= damage control. Nothing more.

Thank You Julie ! We need more TRUTH and courage to speak up as you and your guests! To all the Strange and Joiners…Read the scripture and apply it correctly, please. We’ve had enough of Snake Oil, potions and poison peddling pastors in our pulpits!

I appreciate listening to this! I am frustrated with listening to people trying to make excuses for the fallen Pastor. This is just insanity. They must be held to the highest of all standards. If they fall, they should repent and walk away from the pulpit and serve God in other ways. Exactly, narcissistic people are fine with preaching on the stuff they themselves are privately doing. We as the congregation need to speak and not stand for this in order to honor our church.

Great program. Leaders like this make me wonder about God.

Chris Volloten needs to first take accountability for his false teachings and prophecies. He would have then done a huge favour to the body of Christ.

Rick Joyner is no man of credibility, but it is good to see his wayward position on Mike Bickle.

WHY is mike bickle not in prison ?

Honestly, one of the most irritating phrases I hear is: “moral failings”. It is a way to take the sting out of what actually happened, whether it be adultery, sexual abuse, perversion etc. Thank you Julie for not using such jargon, and being willing to call out the sun for what it is. I appreciate your reporting.

Sexual incontinence and greed are the basic redlines. Thanks for your work.

I was fuming the first time I heard those clips! I was fuming this time too! I was glad to hear you point out the utter failure of those statements!

Other scandalous behavior took place at TBN and is essentially ongoing because it was never dealt with. I find it also scandalous that Joni from Daystar married a supposedly self-confessed SA recovered therapist who has been on the Daystar show for decades as a marraige restoration thereapist with his longstanding faithful wife, whom Doug Weiss labeled as such, but Markus died and Doug stepped in as a "therapist" to counsel Joni with the grieving process. A few months in he filed for divorce from his wife and blatantly got engaged as,soon as it was finalized, while in relationship with Joni the entire time. Their engagement was announced as soon as his divorce was finalized and few months later they had a very public wedding, both lost many pounds and worked out to the teeth. This is less than 2 years after Markus died. No one has asked Doug Weiss's wife how she feels being traded in for a more glamorous model and platform. This was done very much out there publicly in every way. All you have to do is look at the history and timeline, but everyone seems ok with this. Horrible.

Thank you for such helpful and clear thinking - brilliant.

Wack-A-Wolf is a great term for what is going on.

@julieroys your work is consistently excellent. Thank you!

Rosie, your sense of design and your intricate and precise joinery, along with the patience it all requires is nothing short of amazing. I realize how much you've evolved after the purchase of your lovely property. You've come along way and inspired many who are attempting to do what seems impossible in order to get away from the present culture and enjoy a tranquil a d fulfilling lifestyle....not without challenges, but with the ability to overcome them. From a 76 y/0 widow, diy'er, still at it. Blessings from the Ozarks in southern Missouri 😊

Excellant presintation.

Strangles so quick to Mike Bickle restored before even acknowledging the terrible sin done against these young women! Not even a reaction oh that is terrible what he has done to these women and we pray that they be restored! Instead all they could talk about was his concern for Bickle! He makes me sick! Someone should investigate him!

Key Phrase for all of these abuses: “If you read the scripture including what’s written before and after…” In this case Joyner and Strang do not rightly divide the Word and do lie - also disqualifying.

Bickel asked an IHOPKC leader to be silent, while Bickle’s son-had a sexual affair with the leader’s wife. 😮 /Bickel should be be restored??

Thank you.

Hi Julie I think you make a key point when you used the word recycle concerning restoration of pastors. That’s a good point. There is a big difference between recycling a pastor and restoring in the first place.

Thanks for your thoughtful commentary on this subject. The question of if and how "fallen" Christian leaders can be restored to their former ministry roles is a difficult, if not impossible, question to definitively answer. It appears to me that a big part of the problem here is that many people find it easier to follow a charismatic leader than to follow Christ

I saw this behavior in a secular job in leaders. We need to be different. They are a failure as leaders in this world. Not examples to those who need help!!!!

Great video! I think part of the problem is Celebrity culture and honor culture no matter what structure you have in place. When we elevate the "Gift" over character then we have become part of the problem. We need to stop idolizing these men like a god that gives them power that strokes there ego that they think they can get away with anything. A leader must be a humble man of God and must be lowly a man of no reputation like Jesus. What are these leaders who are trying to cover up their sin doing? They are trying to protect their "reputation and ministry" They are not like Jesus. Where there is no humility then Pride will surely take over. While plurality of elders is the most biblical NT model but plurality of elders can also be protectors or buffers put in place. We have also seen megachurches have the plurality of elders structure and oust the Pastor but he just picks up his chips and start a new church. AGAIN the "Gift" is being elevated over character. What influential teachers like Michael Brown and others have to do is say I will not take part in any conferences or have anything to do with the ministry of anyone who has been disqualified in ministry. I would say if Rick Joyner "restores" someone like Mike Bickle have nothing to do with them. There has to be a backlash against them all. If you restore Mike Bickle then your associated with Bickle back away from then all. Let them all fall together. Our part is we will not attend any ministry etc that they are disqualified from ministry. We need to back away from their ministry because as long as they got an audience they will be back in ministry even if they committed some of the most wicked sins. Money to support their livlihood and audience. If we take both away from them then we the people can effect change.

I read a book by Mike, Passion for Jesus, that was written in 2007. I’m sorry but I can’t help but wonder who he was “grooming” while he was writing the book. Sad.

Julie....don't forget the woman who was having an affair with MB first....then Luke Bickle....6 years of bringing food to MB and locking themselves in his office.... The most recent one. Still others who haven't come forward... Up to maybe 10-20.... Wow

Jesus is your Spiritual leader…. Where do you get the idea that the pyramid power structure is at all Biblical?

I don’t know how all these “Christians “ are going to act toward Mike Bickle in Heaven. He will be there. God will handle it then.

When people say their accountability is only God, they show their ignorance. God gave dominion to man on the earth as the managers and caretakers. Moreover we are called the Body of Christ on the earth and as such are the administrators of what the head commands. It's that simple

How about…we just don’t go to church. 🤷🏻‍♂️🙏🌞

Deliverance is needed for these pastors!

Appreciate breaking down exposing sexual sin in the church according to the word it’s never been done that I’ve seen and crucial to come to proper understanding of the word

That was a VERY piddly "apology"

is there a criminal investigation? Civil lawsuits?

Laughter does nog surprise me. That it is women that laugh the loudest, blows my mind.

In all we are hearing and understanding , I’m wondering why there are no criminal charges ,,? ?

Rick joyner is NOT a man we should ever listen to. He has nothing to offer us anymore. He's been so wrong so many times...and has been dishonest with us about his own past.

True holiness Andrew discernment at a All Time Low no wonder why no one really wants to accept the false Jesus that these people portray that's why why is the road that leads to destruction and many go there in narrow is the way that leads to eternal life in few be that find it I really believe the true Remnant is probably maybe 30% if we're lucky

Eveyone can be restored. No question.

Why would he not say the name? Paul named people: Jannes and Jambres

The original Greek translation says this "Brothers, if indeed is overtaken a man in some fault, you the spiritual ones restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering yourself, lest also you be tempted." It does not say "any" !! How do these "ministers" not go to the original text to correct this?

Disqualified? Actually almost as soon as he demands being addressed by the title of PASTOR. Jesus wasn’t picking on the words Father and Rabbi; he was showing that men who want titles are missing his point about humility and service.

1:02 I've said since I was in high school that I felt emotionally safer with the “secular world” than with “church people”…..which is so sad. Still true….😢

It has been my experience and observation that a majority of charismatic church starters…I will refer to as “ Throne Warmers”, are rarely questioned regarding the finances or spiritual teachings of “ his” start-up church. The new congregants are expected to have true devotion and limitless energy and time to contribute.. The hand picked oversight boards are very often not allowed to voice their opinions but, are advised of the decisions after they’ve been made. IMO…when choosing an independent charismatic church, please ask questions. Mainly ask as to why this pastor has chosen not to be accountable to a mainline church organization, and to whom he attributes his inspiration and honor for pastoring.. The answer may help you decide whether or not to dedicate such an important, often large..chunk of your time and treasure!

It was super disappointing to hear the Kris Volaton statements on Mike Bickel from the pulpit. Calling someone an idiot and talking about it for the congregation to laugh is reprehensible. I’ve known Kris since his and Bill Johnson’s days in Weaverville. Those were days of REVIVAL and I didn’t attend their church. Our entire AREA of nobodies on the “down river” Indian reservation experienced revival. Kris was a dynamic pastor for families, husband and wife relationships. Kris has been excellent in relating to struggling marriages. He and Bethel are NOT strangers to sexual abuse victims. I’m telling you the truth when I say I was told by an employee of one of Bethel’s off campus churches there was one under the direction of almost entirely sex abuse survivors because Bethel saw the need. He was a family member and wasn’t lying to me. He said he had no idea sexual abuse was that prevalent until he worked there. I’m not making this up. I told my family member I thanked God he didn’t know about sexual abuse, he may be one in hundreds of people I know. I’m a survivor and have been struggling with this garbage of IHOP KC. My foster sister had her world ripped from beneath her by a molestation and proposition of her pastor to be his special daughter. We were both 16 at the time. My step father was assistant police chief AND a predator. She was running away from her once stable home because it became too dangerous. Into OUR unsafe home. To the CHURCH with an unsafe pastor!!! But to the outside world we were the assistant police chief’s kids. There are millions of these stories and it is time to STOP allowances. I have a solution. I advocate for a self sustained island of no return, guarded by armed drones and alligators. Serve the rest of their life with a population of their peers. Whatever happens? God help them. We aren’t giving them the death penalty but protecting society. Society should be protected from Mike Bickel. I would send him there in case he’s wondering. He is one person I doubt reads the comments in videos made referring him. People so quick to think restoration are going to have a problem there. Abba will finish what he started. The guest speaker said there was a lot more which hasn’t been revealed in the IHOP … …. I don’t even know what to call it. Scandal is not the right word. Y’all know what I mean. Let God be true and every man a liar. Let God arise and His enemies be scattered. Shalom and Godspeed in Jesus name Saints. Thank you Julie Roys and guest.

IHOP needs to shut down

Oh please Kris was not taking responsibility, the two of you don't know when you're hearing something fake where is your discernment?

I think the late Dallas Willard indirectly speaks to this muddled situation. His "Divine Conspiracy" demonstrates that the first stage or step in spiritual transformation (aka Christian maturity) is having dealt with anger...prior to having dealt with lust. There are many "angry Preachers" who show they haven't graduated from the inner school to be examples to point the way. Even Chris Valatons response of calling a questioner * an idiot" is an example of calling a brother "Raca " (empty head) which is an example of a reaction from anger towards a brother. Apologies don't stop knee jerk reactions Anger surely is a human emotion that is right to have towards situations and injustice but to allow it to be directed against a brother or sister in attitude or words.is against the basic teachings of Christ. I have seen this as a common feature in all Christians leaders you have exposed. This a symptom of a larger problem

They need to get into the right relationship with Jesus Christ and follow him. Forget getting back into leadership it is not for you. Learn to walk daily with the Lord.

🙏💜 When it comes to actual criminal behavior, we MUST educate each other in the church that such CRIMES need to be reported to the police. As we can see from this podcast (and many of us already know from life experience), the practice of "handling things within the church" INSTEAD of going to the police only allows the abuse and criminal behavior to continue elsewhere. Criminals belong in PRISON--even if they are ministers, especially so! ⚖

"Having your children under submission." The Bible just disqualified most pastors. Have you ever known a PK?

At this point it’s not about Mike Bickle because he’s out. The question now is should the Prayer Room keep going?

I have NEVER SEEN a pastor be “restored” and go back into ministry and never committed the crime again! 30 years total experience including 20 years of working inside the Texas Prison system. Never means never go back into the same situation that got them in trouble - Never!

It is to easy to repent and do the same think again ! And what about the love of money of these people- financial abuse