Any Rogue multiclassed properly can out-damage just about any single class lol. Rogues can be busted so easily. Not a complaint. Never played one myself, but I've played with plenty.
I run a Storm Sorcerer + Tempest Cleric at one of my tables and Booming Blade is my signature cantrip. I transmute Ashardalon’s Stride to Thunder damage, running around the field and dealing damage to enemies as I pass by without taking attacks of opportunity. When I get to my last 10ft of movement, I attack the closest enemy with Booming Blade and then back up to force the movement. Thanks to the cleric multiclass for Medium Armor and Shields, I’m rocking an 18AC with a Shield spell for a total 23AC as needed. Pretty fun build, and only takes a 3rd+ level spell to run. Everything else is kept for various damage and utility effects as needed or healing.
@@ryanholley406I get that ur getting The Flash kinda thing but why not Spirit Guardians? The damage is great. Besides, you dont need really need that much movement. Js use transmuted spell on Fireball.
@@noeL-0 free movement. And more narrative based. My character is a Triton Storm Sorcerer who was an arcane healer on a pirate ship. He was known for his ability to dance around the ships during heavy combats with other pirate groups. He also needed to be quick on his feet should any of his allies fall to heal them. There was actually no influence by the Flash when building him. I wanted to make a character that could dive in and out of combat with ease. I still run transmuted fireballs. Ashardalon’s Stride gives me the exact combat design that I had in mind for my character though. As for Spirit Guardians, I only did a 2 level dip into Tempest Cleric for the Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath for max damage fireballs (Transmuted) and lightning bolts as needed. I appreciate the tips! But the movement has been incredibly helpful. We’ve lost a couple characters in this campaign and it was because we were too far away, not quick enough to get to them. Narratively, my character has resolved to use his own speed to never again lose an ally.
Incorrect. You play as a variant human swashbuckler. Then you take the magic initiate feat for booming blade, shape water (coz pirate) and find familiar for a parrot familiar to sit on your shoulder and shout obscenities.
Im actually playing a kobold swashbuckler in campaign right now, he had a gang of pirates with his brothers until all of them died and now was left alone and that's when he joined the party, now he has the ring of winter fuzed with him, died in the abyss and now is a reborn with the holy mission to set the world on ice
I think it should be stated… you might not always be able to just hide like that. I think a good DM would look at/think about the terrain and say whether or not you can actually hide there.
The rogue in one of my games used to "skyrim crouch" to hide while right next to enemies, until I quietely pointrd out to the dm between sessions that the rules specify you cant hide from something that can see you.
Yeah I was thinking about this too. I think the solution is to go kobold instead for the cantrip, then you have access to draconic cry in situations you can't hide.
I mean, if you're creative enough (which many Rogues should be to efficiently use a bunch of their features), you can think of *something* to hide behind/in.
@@kristiandahl1310 That… that seems dependent on what you’re fighting. Plenty of enemies should be smart enough to recognize that there’s something suspicious about the box and attack it anyway.
If u have a mental stat at 13 u can dip 1 into: Cha-warlock (hexblade,undead,dao genie), wis-arcana cleric, or int-wizard. All getting booming blade on the dip level, but also getting a big buff for their 2nd dip level (2 invocations, channel divinity, and wiz spec:div/chronergy/bladesinger/war/conjuration)
For extra tomfoolery grab yourselves 3 levels in Ancestral Guardian Barbarian. Now the person you just hit will have disadvantage on all attacks against anyone but yourself and your allies will have resistance to their damage essentially removing them from the fight.
To be fair, he could mean he can't take an OA in the sense that he cannot be on the receiving end. Granted, that's silly wording at best, but still technically correct is the best kind of correct.
@@Avigorus Oh it absolutely works both ways, (language is fun like that) but when you're trying to argue for a Rules as Written exploit you should eliminate as much ambiguity as you can.
I've gamed for 20+ years. Elves have never had a British accent in my experience. Human aristocrats do though. Dwarves are Scottish. Halflings have a southern accent. Elves have mostly had that melodic up and down rhythm akin to Celtic/Gaelic. In fact, aren't elves derived from Irish folklore of the Sidhe?
@Viper3220 southern halflings? Well, that's a nice thought in my experience of DnD. Most players give halfling higher piched northern Irish accents presumably to play on the leprechaun And no fantasy elves are not based on the Sidhe, at least not directly more so the classic fantasy elf is based on Tolkien who based his elves on 1 what he thought humans could have been without original sin and 2 what the poetic Edda call "light elves" which are just reskinned biblical angels
Okay so Yes this would work, but only for the initial attack. With this example at 5th level you would make an attack at advantage and deal 1d6 (or 1d8 weapon) + 1d8 thunder + 3d6 Sneak damage. If the creature moves, the damage comes from a spell, not the weapon, so it would not cause Sneak Attack to happen again, as again Sneak attack is damage from a finesse weapon, not a spell. I'd also like to bring up that this is clever but it is only on average about 20 dmg. Average CR 5 creature has 100 hit points, with the threat of another bad poke, I think most creatures will gladly take an additional 10 damage to chase down the rouge and beat it to a bloody pulp. You may hide, but creatures are usually smart enough to see where you went, and unless you turned a corner, climbed something, ext. Just sneaking doesn't mean they're oblivious to the general direction you went. Also held actions are a thing. A Hill Gaint waiting for the rude pokie rouge so it can squish them. So where the Rouge dealt 20-30, the giant waits and deals 18 or 21 back. I know uncanny dodge, but yeah, this is strong, but not like unbelievably broken
Plus, that Hill Giant doesn't even need to move. YEET stone is still a thing. Good luck hiding in a barrel when that giant will wreck that barrel and you in one stone's throw.
@@lyravain6304 Okay, hear me out, the syndical part of my GM mind is telling me that with 5 Int, Hill Giants have just enough Int to think rationally, Rouge Barrel meet hill. IE Giant picks up barrel and yeets it xD
Okay, I did math, based off 5e base rules 21x30 (Lifting and carrying), the giant can lift 2,520 lbs (21x30(2(2)))(Size (x2(x2)). They can then throw (Not in the rule book, but I'd assume if it's less then there carry weight, it would be easy if they can carry it. There carry weight is 1,260. On average throwing rules says you can make an athletics check of DC10 to throw an average weapon 30 feet, with some mental gymnastics and homebrew if a Hill Gaint felt cruel it could easily throw something 180 lbs 30 feet, it has 10x that Str, average weight being generous of the rogue, it's carry weight, and the barrel is maybe 300 lbs, so a bit harder to throw, but still capable of throwing the Barrel Rouge 0.05 of a mile with like a DC 15 Str Athletics check. Reminder that the Rouge is in a barrel, so wouldn't get a save, but if the gm wants to be nice, they might give them a save. Sorry, bored and good at math xD
its 2d8 damage from Booming Blade; Cantrips scale with level. So it’d be 1d8 (assuming Rapier) + 3d6 on the first hit, so average(?) of 15 damage on the initial hit and then avg 9 damage from Booming Blade bc Swashbucklers can proc Sneak Attack without advantage as long as there isn’t an ally within 5ft, but they also would gain advantage if they’re successfully hidden from an enemy, which can work in close range, as stealth checks need to beat passive perception (and assuming there’s anything to hide within/behind), so the math checks out.
your assumption about being able to immediately squash the rogue is also correct, but if you play a monster true to itself, some will just likely be too stupid to pay attention to the poison dart frog
@@AdamX222As a storm genasi warlock that has used booming blade for nearly every attack in a campaign that's lasted for over two years... I'm PRAYING my dm never figures this out lol. (In all seriousness i trust him to not abuse it and only use it once or twice for a challenge)
If you want to really ruin this builds day and don't mind losing a massive resource trade, counterspell the Booming. The rogue is stuck within 5 feet of you having lost their action (but the can still disengage)
My DM allowed feat at level 1 with which my changeling swashbuckler grabbed Magic Initiate for this exact reason. They’re a backup character, so I haven’t been able to deploy them quite yet, but oh boy when I do
I mean, at that point you can just bypass the whole high elf thing anyway, cause Booming Blade is available to warlocks so you take it as one of your cantrips for the feat
@JoshityJosh exactly my thoughts about hexing their wisdom. And you can get booming blade so you can play a halfling and hide behind tanks party members. Lol
@@dominikgose2609 is it optimal? Maybe not, but if you're not doing anything else with your concentration, like I said it bypasses the need to be a high elf and it's just free damage at that point, while also minorly benefitting your ability to hide between attacks.
I have a pretty similar build on my swashbuckler rogue, except instead of starting with High Elf i instead took Wizard Initiate at level 4 and got: Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade, and Mage armor, none of which need your INT at all
As others pointed out, ranged attacks exist. Booming blade doesn't stop, say, a Giff captain from pulling out his flintlock and kneecapping the swashbuckler, or a firbolg from picking up a barrel and donkey konging him. No movement, no booming blade.
@@tdarassp Hiding takes a roll. Rolls can be failed - particularly if the opponent saw exactly WHERE you went to hide. I mean, if I walk away from you, then move behind an armchair and crouch, all in plain sight of you, I'm technically hidden - but even a moron could tell where I am.
@alarkhar 9/10 rogues get expertise in stealth, and rogues are eventually unable to roll below a 10. Meaning by level 11, albeit the end of most campaigns, expert stealth rogues roll a minimum 18 on stealth. Minimum All this to say, let the fuckin rogue do the one thing it's good at in combat lmao they're the most one trick pony class in combat, god forbid a DM lets them have their fun while other players are attacking multiple times, flying around casting wild magic shit. The way you look at this is very anti-fun
Yea, well, on paper it's fun just like shadowblade+booming blade. But not every mob will be dumb enough to move after seeing his comrade getting revibrated to death.
Or do what he said and also take elven accuracy. Roll 3d20 on most attacks anyway fro successful hiding or coordinating flanking with the rest of your party. Go crit fishing with a lot of dice.
@MercuryCold you’re also missing the point of the game. The point of the game is to have fun, and some people have fun coming up with cool build ideas. So don’t be a punk.
@@astercat49 so you have no point, you are just a brat. Also, calling a man a punk sounds like you're projecting....child. maybe you should grow up a little, get a job , go outside, talk to a girl??? Take a break.
For even more fun eventually add in Battlemaster Fighter or take the combat superiority feat for Brace. So if the enemy does follow you and gets within melee range you get an opporunity attack which you get to add sneak attack to again. I built a Harengon Swashbuckler Battlemaster named Finnegan O'Hare and he very well may be my cheesiest creation and the one im most proud of.
I played a very similar character, but I used warlock to get flame blade instead. With that, you can also grab the shadow blade spell, which majorly increases your damage.
The activated Booming blade damage won’t deal sneak attack since the feature specifies that it applies when you hit a creature with an attack roll. But using a hit and run tactic where the opponent has to decide if the 2d8 damage is worth hopefully finding you does still seem good.
Yes it will, from booming blade, "You brandish the weapon used in the spell’s casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you." Provided that weapon has the finese property, it will trigger sneak attack. So yeah, if the opponent has no ranged options. They're kinda screwed.
@@dannybeane2069 Yes, but the base damage from booming blade is just for if the creature moves, not from the initial attack (at higher levels it does add damage to the attack as well). So their point is that the movement-triggered damage won't trigger sneak attack.
@@dylanmccreary2164that is incorrect, booming blade does the weapon damage plus the cantrip effect, diference being that since is a cantrip, you arent taking the attack action, meaning you dont benefit from extra attack or bonus action attack from dualwielding, but is still an attack with a weapon, a rapier would do 1d8 damage from the weapon and the cantrip damage as well, and since a rapier is finese it would trigger sneak attack too
@@FarothFuin Yes, I know it also does the weapon damage. But the OP specifies "activated Booming blade damage", as in they are trying to specifically refer to the secondary effect activated by movement
Ayo. That's my build rn. Swashbuckler for the free sneak attack, Hexblade for the Charisma scaling on weapon attacks and the Booming Blade cantrip, and Echo Knight with the Sentinel feat for the opportunity attack shenanigans. I swear I'm not going to evolve into a Ghostlance... or am I???
@@Gaddrik69420 You're right. That's going to be the next feat I'm gonna get. I actually went Variant Human for Sentinel, then ASI for Charisma on Echo Knight lvl 4.
Its actually super powerful because it stacks with character level, so the cantrip will get stronger, and you proc your weapon attack and sneak with it. So eventually it will do 6d6 from sneak, 1d8+mod rapier, + 2d8 on hit from booming and another 3d8 more if it moves, and if the Rogue is an Assassin who slapped someone un-noticed before initiative, you would double basically all of that, to 12d8 + 12d6 + 5, for about 100 damage in one turn.
Well, if you’re an assassin, it’s strong, but any assassin is strong on the first turn (also, you forgot to subtract the movement damage from your assassin crit damage). Afterwards, the damage is roughly equivalent to a subclassless fighter with great weapon master (having just done the math). And that’s IF rogue can get both sneak attack and the extra booming blade damage. Rogue is just weak in general, so boosting him this way doesn’t make him OP.
Strong no. Annoying yes. But still very easy to counter as a DM. Which is why I'd actually warn against players being too dependent on one-trick builds. All it takes is you annoying the DM enough that they decide "you know what, I can open reddit too". Having a less 'directly powerful' but more flexible build is, in my opinion, better. For instance, if this build has to deal with a couple archers, they're down. Or with a riding creature. Or a trapper. Cute build, it'll come in handy, but do keep a couple more tricks up your sleeve.
Oh, you like meta gaming so you? They cast fireball on your last known position. But how they can't see me. They saw where you did the hidden action. Also, this wizard has 2 levels of fighter. They action surge and cast a 2nd fireball on that location. But wizards get fireball at level 5. They're using scrolls.
@@darthmalicex4118 Yes. I wanted to prove a point, not kill a motherfucker. He might fail one and take half damage for his trouble at worse. If I wanted to be mean, I would have the wizard do silvery barbs, or....be a divination wizard, and hand him a one. But thats DM vs party, while what I did was meming.
@@darthmalicex4118 Yeah, thats kind of the point. At worse, he misses one uncanny dodge, takes half damage. But now he knows that just because he is hidden doesn't mean he is untouchable. If I wanted to be mean, I'd make the wizard a divination wizard, portent the swashbucklers hide uncanny action to a one. Then have the wizard cast hold person, silvery barbs in case of a success. No action surge needed, being not allowed to play the game suuuucks.
It's really not that bad, It's a lot of damage per attack but still only one attack so you do nothing if it misses. Also you can't just hide willynilly in combat If worst case scenario just say the monster holds it's action to smack anything hostile coming in melee range. No extra 2d8 damage from moving and if you're really cheeky you could replace the attack with a grapple and keep the rogue in place It's pretty good and cute, nothing close to cheese levels
This is my stout halfling who wanted to be a yacht chef. Instead he meandered onto a genasi pirate ship and had to learn how to defend himself with a chef's knife
Me who swapped "being a high elf" with "took 2 levels in artificer": That's cute. [bonus action casts Arcane Weapon on his infused +1 rapier to make it deal an extra 3d6 thunder damage, closing the damage gap while enjoying the perks of a shield, added spell options, a possible 2nd subclass in 1 more level, and other racial feats from being something other than a High Elf]
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you dont get shield unless you take level3 subclass of artificer with shield in its spell list (battlesmith or artillerist). And that is now slowing your sneak attack progression, quite badly (2d6 down)
"of A shield" Artificer lvl 1 gets medium armor/shield proficiency. Though if he wants to be "Cute" take 1 level of Hexblade warlock, get all the cantrips, same armor shield proficency, and you you can leave your Dex at 14 and focus on Charisma which synergizes well with Swashbuckler.
I was playing a swashbuckler and when I tried to attack and then hide the DM said that I couldn't because "you're in a wide area, where the hell are you going to hide" like dude I have 11 hit points as a level 9 rogue against 2 level 8 fighters about to rip me to shreds can you please let me do something for the love of god
Dumb question but if you're in a wide area why not just... Dash? They'd have to dash to keep up with you, and they (probably) can't do it as a bonus action. But otherwise, uh, yeah? If you're in a wide open area and don't have some kind of cover or obscurement, of course you can't hide, you're in plain sight.
@@AdamX222 the way the swashbuckler ability works is that if you attack an enemy they can't opportunity attack you. There were 2 of them so I couldn't hit and run and they would've just caught up to me making my turn useless. Also I was a rogue, a super stealthy assassin with +11 to stealth, I believe it's stupid to outright deny me the ability to use half my skillset and ,if you want to talk about realism, the sorcerer over there can use a cone of cold to freeze 5 guys at once so I don't believe it's unreasonable to want to hide in a relatively open area, plus it just put me in a bad mood to not be able to guarantee life for one friggin round. Also I wasn't in a prairie, I was in a steampunk train station and I can think of a few places to hide in such a place.
@guineapork6830 Yeah, that's just a bad encounter building by your dm. There should always be some sort of cover , hell, even a field could have tall grass to hide in. At the end of day Taking away a single players abilities is anti-fun.
@@loudogspeed271to be fair to the DM it could have been a case of they did set up places that would obscure the character but instead the rouge chose to play invincible and run into the wide open to attack rather than play their strength taking pot shots from cover.
@@guineapork6830 yeah that location should have some places to hide given your speed. The argument with magic though isn’t really valid as magic doesn’t break the conventions of that world but hiding without a place to hide just breaks common logic. Not saying you couldn’t hide there though that is kinda dumb.
The Jake to my Elwood is a swashbuckler halfling and this is what he does usually. I've started doing it too with my Paladin Hexblade. It's kept us going for 3 years
Few notes to know for players! You need to be obscured to hide. Out in open combat fields and such may not have any way to hide. Enemies can always ready attacks waiting for you're approach as well if you hide and pop in. And that's about it, of course dm may throw more perceptive enemies if he feels you're not getting ay challenge anymore! Dragons and vampires for example have insane perception.
Finally someone with a great comment on hiding during combat. It's not impossible if the battlefield is full of obstacles. Too many people are to quick to say 'No, you can't hide during combat.' Thank you for this!
I used an active Shadow Blade + Booming Blade + Sneak Attack + Disengage as a Forest Gnome Arcane Trickster Rogue with the Investigator background for 4d8 + 4d6 at advantage in a dark cave with the potential for an additional 3d8 every turn at level 8 in my most recent campaign. When I crit my DM literally crumpled the paper for the dungeon boss and asked "So how do you do it?" - our version of "He's obviously dead now. What's the flavor text you'd like for your killing blow?" If you're dungeon crawling I highly recommend this build. By taking the Shadow and Fey Touched feats you can double your number of spells per day so you more resemble a half caster. By taking the Sentinel and War Caster feats you can attack with Booming Blade as a reaction when they enter your 5' range, and if the attack qualifies, deal your sneak attack damage in addition to this as part of the same attack. There's a ton of fun combos out there. Good luck, and have fun.
How would booming blade trigger sneak attack as a reactiom with war caster and sentinel?? Booming blade requires you to brand a weapon and then smack them right? That be 2 things in a single reaction right? And even then the weapon u boom needs to be a finesse that u also need advantage or an ally thats also next to the enemy to trigger sneak attack? Im asking because im confused, and i wanna know so maybe i could try but i wanna know how it works first and hoe it makes sense
@@shizenmarami4213 Casting Booming Blade includes both brandishing the weapon and attacking with it, so it's still just one reaction. Shadow Blade has the finesse property. You're right about the sneak attack thing. I guess that's the reason he recommended it for dungeon crawling, since Shadow Blade grants advantage on attack rolls against targets in dim light or darkness (and dungeons often have dim lighting).
@shizenmarami4213 you would need to be a swashbuckler, have an ally within 5 feet of them, or have advantage. Part of shadow blade says if you're in darkness you have advantage. CandelaNudel explained it way better.
@@timothydodson8396 while being a swashbuckler you dont need advantage or an ally near an enemy to trigger the sneak attack, swashbuckler is to help u move away without needing to bonus action disengage while making a lot easier to trigger sneak attack
@@CandelaNudel ohh I see i see, i understand the booming blade part well as a reaction now, for a swashbuckler it woulf be easier to do since dark blade needs to be in dark environments but still its a cool thing to do either way! U could possibly reaction booming blade them with a finesse weapon (which might work with shadow blade?) Then if its in darkness then it triggers sneak attack or theres an ally nearby or u have advantage potentially from Unseen Attacker ruling if the enemy cant aee in the dark! Or advantage from other things, maybe multiclass to barbarian to have that one feature at level 2 or something thats gives u advantage for an attack
That's a pretty bread and butter Rogue build all things considered. Pretty damn fun to play, and if you're on the DM side of things you can build around it by having dumb brutes that move, and smart enemies that use things like Misty Step to close the gap without getting hit by BB.
Part of the Hide action actually involves finding anything to hide behind. And by dancing around an enemy, you only get to choose a location up to 15ft away.
My favorite character was a swashbuckler blade dancer elf. I had a pretty cool character concept in my opinion and it was just very fun to play because you had so much movement and defensive ability for somebody without a armor
Some of his combos are, others just don't work. This one has a small flaw, you can't hide in plain sight. If I stay you, you're going to look at me, I can't just walk 15 feet away and go "you can't see me now!" This can work in complete darkness, or a forest or other such areas qith lots of hiding places, but even the stupidest enemies will look at you after you stab them, and keep looking at you as you run away.
Or rogue sawshbuckler + bladesinger wizaed, that extra attack w cantrip plus the super high AC and full caster is amazing, add uncsnny dodge and evasion iand is a win win
It does work, you make a melee attack, you just hit him with an attack, the writting works. It's also the main thing behind the Arcane Trickster. Rogue is also super underpowered, why would you wanna nerf him
I want to play a haragon armor artificer with a whip is my primary weapon between booming blade my thunder gauntlets and hop it is going to get interesting
Honestly it’s sad how little it goes this way because we have a monk that refuses to back off even if it means the enemy dying and a caster who refuses to use a spell for forced movement
Iirc forced movement doesn't work for Booming Blade, just like it doesn't work for attacks of opportunity. Maybe spells that force them to use their movement on their turn like suggestion or command would work but uncertain on that.
Not really. You don't even have to hide. If your opponent uses melee, you can just hit them, then step five feet back and now any movement triggers it. (I'm playing a swashbuckler with a level in warlock, and took this cantrip)
I mean you could easily come up with a backstory for this, a high elf searching for lost treasure of his people but he can’t do it legally due to country borders and as such turned to piracy to hide his excursions. Is a short one I could think up.
That was my idea when I started with the character, but I really wanted to be a cat, so I went Arcane Trickster and still do the same thing, except I don't get to hide at the end. And because we have plenty of "tanks" around, there's always somebody within 5 feet.
Eh. This one's not that crazy. It's pretty much a soft paladin-like build with less armor. Statistically its not too much higher than just having extra attack, assuming the second booming blade proc triggers.
except it is a cantrip so you can repeat this forever and the sneak attack is a nice added damage. smites require spell slots and other things can be added on top of it. plus you get the expertise and other abilities of the rogue.
@@Taven03 Yeah. You went out of your way to be statistically only slightly better than your average fighter at costless attacking in order to have that damage with all the little goodies rogue gets you. I'm not saying its bad by any means, I'm just saying I wouldn't call it crazy strong.
@@JoshityJosh I like it. Mostly because it makes a dagger with it look a lot flashier. The weapon's damage numbers really stop mattering when most of your damage comes from the combo anyway.
Swashbuckler Bladesinger is a character I’ve been waiting to unleash on the next friend that offers to take over my role as forever DM for a campaign… I think this is why I’m the forever DM
@@SomaTDW Just like this is a skit, my comment was a joke. Don’t worry about all our shity GM’s - you got to worry bout your lack of capability to grasp a sarcastic joke so obvious, it was even put in “quotes” for ya. 😂 If you learn to pick up on role play, hell - you might not be a shity player / GM yourself! (:
