As a hitter in baseball I never manually tried to hit with the trail arm, and as a pitcher I never tried to unload the wrist yet it happens every time I throw or hit. I have experimented with every golf swing idea I can find and have found for me any effort to hit with the trail arm or wrist drastically slows my swing down and causes poor contact and face control problems.
Thank you for this experiment Milo. I’m completely sold. Now I just have to stick with the countless hours of drills it will take me to rewire my brain into this release pattern as my natural hardwired urge is to cast/release the angles early
Thanks! The part that confuses me is the difference between held off and natural. Are they the same body swing and held off is adding tension with the wrists? If you were whipping a towel with your golf swing where would it snap for maximum speed? I can't get Driver over 108mph but I feel like I should be able to. Drives me nuts - lol.
my issue is hitting AT the ball which causes a casty in to out, toe down action that i cant stand!! its like my idea of "throw" is destroying my action
Well Milo, I've been following you for 4 weeks now, and I'm now playing the best golf I've ever played in 40yrs, I'm also getting more distance than I have ever had to, I wish I had found you a long time ago, I'm now 70yrs old, and I have driven the third hole at my club two days on the bounce, I've never done this before in 4oyrs, it's a par 4 290yrds, thanks Milo, your swing is amazing. Kind regards Glynn
I've done this experiment myself a few times. I think the feels are going to be a little different for everybody, and ultimately you never know what is correct for you until you try it yourself. My own results sometimes change day to day. Golf is hard.
Yeah and it will change as a swing changes. I used to throw from the top and I worked on holding on as much as possible just to have a "natural" release. After a while holding on was holding me back and I had to go to not holding to have a natural release. Always re-evaluate!
This was the best tip I've had in a long time . The last 4 rounds were amazing. Thank you so much for this video it's amazing how on plane my swing feels . My son was.like a( always beats me) we were tied going into last two holes he shot 79 and I ended up shooting 82. But I only had 5 hours sleep and wearing a brace on my injured knee. He couldn't believe how I was striking ball. I told him I'll send you the video. So thanks again!!
I know you all think I'm crazy ... but the release point is the result of the direction of force. It happens naturally, with a slight delay, after force is exhausted. You cannot actively control where the release happens. It has to be reverse engineered with trial and error. The release happens about 30º to 40º, rotationally, after force is no longer be applied. To assume you can control the release point in real time is to assume the golf club has no weight, mass or inertia and if it didn't have any of those attributes, that would be like trying to hit a golf ball with a paper straw.
You are correct that direction of force determines when the release occurs however I would say every elite player can control the direction and magnitude of force therefore they have control of release point and can control trajectory at will.
Nice illustration. I would imagine if the golf club was engineered in the opposite way where the weight was in the handle versus the head there would be a need to use the trail arm to generate speed. As long as people watch golf on TV and the numerous golf gurus on RU-vid who continually point out characteristics, positions, etc. of swings by professional golfers by using a still frame and/or slow motion video, the more the amateur golfer (and aspiring professionals) will struggle. As you have mentioned, the swing like many other motions in other sports is dynamic and what happens along the way and at impact are a result of numerous factors, but not something manipulated during the motion. This is why you will always have job security Milo. My swing doesn't look like yours because this is your swing, but the principles of motion you teach for the golf swing I try to apply to my swing and when I get it right, it feels good and doesn't hurt my body like the past few decades of trying to achieve a look or position of another golfer. Keep up the great work.
Just so people know because no one seems to have realised in this thread, 170+ ball speed is absolutely insane. To put in context 175 is good speed for a tour player with driver. It’s like a 300 carry with 3 wood off the deck 😮😮
Great video, Milo. I've noticed that whenever I try Release #3, I get great lag, but horrible contact and speed. Smash factor is at about 1.35 to 1.4 and I can't seem to swing no more than 97 or 98 mph. When I let my arms (what I think is a natural) fall, it FEELS like I'm getting great lag, but when I film myself, I'm actually fully releasing the club at about P6 (pre-impact, just as my hands reach the side of my leg). Contact is perfect, swing speed is at my max (roughly 103-105), and smash factor is 1.45 or slightly above. I just can't seem to do those super lag swings that Cameron Champ and Jake Knapp seem to pull off with ease. (It doesn't help that I'm over 50 years old, 5'8, with a body built on black beans and rice.)
Milo I keep coming back to this video. For some reason I think this is one of your best videos ever. I am trying to copy this whole sequence of what you are doing here. Thanks for this Gold.
@@AR-ke8wg arms provided structure and because of the loading of facial lines and muscles they automatically unload when things are sequenced correctly. The wrists are more of a free hinge not something to be used as a power source though much of the speed is extracted from the unwinding of the wrist lever.
The earlier hand speed get maximum speed on the Down Swing the better with one condition is you have to turn your body so the hands in the position that can release the club head that accelerate thru the ball.
Study Hogan’s swing in freeze frame then the swings of Moe Norman and Harry Frankenberg (Count Yogi). All three of them had a lot of side bend which maintained radial deviation lag deep into their downswings and then they release the club with the same action as cracking the tip of a whip past the sound barrier, maxing out unlar deviation as club head met, compressed and release the ball as hands and face locked square to the target. It creates huge amount of acceleration and exponential increase in club head kinetic energy and striking force. I discovered this retooling my swing twenty years ago using Five Lesson, doing Hogan’s waggle with the wrists and letting a ball get in the way. It exploded off the face and flew straight.
Interesting insight! I wonder how much of this depends on what type of ground force the person mostly uses. I imagine that (vertical force) and (lateral force) driven players need to feel more early release, and (torque driven/pivot driven) players need to feel like they hold the angles. 🤔 Solid video, gave me some things to think about🤙
@@GarthOJ interesting question and I believe players with loads of lateral do need more manual throw because rotation isn’t creating the unloading for them however My main ground force is vertical force and I have a little above average torque and almost no lateral force.
@@MiloLinesGolf makes sense. I tend to shift alot laterally and I've always liked the feel of throwing the club or releasing it early. If I try to hold the angle I feel stuck. Probably just poor transition habits I reckon
Awesome video. I don't disagree with you, but it seems like Monte Scheinblum does. He's adament about throwing away lag (#2 in your experiment) fast and early. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something or perhaps 'feel is not real'. But whatever the case, I know he doesn't swing it slow. Maybe guys like you just innately know how to swing sticks fast. IDK
@@MrMarkAODonnell I know he and others may disagree with the findings in this video which is why I was hesitant to release this video to the public. This video was made 1 year ago for my academy members and I know I sent it to you way back then. What’s interesting is if you look at hack motion data we don’t see angles unloading early, they are generally retained or increasing until somewhere after p5 for almost all elite players regardless of the release pattern they employ.
They claim that the vast majority are very late with their arms and that their hips dominate their swings. It seems to me the solution would be an earlier and faster shoulder turn that allows the hips and arms to be better coordinated. Not having dominant arms that start the DS, as that would be reverse sequencing and specifically casting. Even if it's just a "feel" it's still wrong.
Hogan also taught golf in multiple other books and 100s of other venues. We have a system with 3 foundations can’t get any simpler yet I have to make 1000 videos to answer all the questions that come from the 3 foundations.
Young players all have that strong left hand grip that you have. Would you please, please, do a video explaining how it works. I slow down the "intro" of each of your vids to watch your hand action as you get to impact and through release. Any added forearm rotation with that grip makes the clubface hook closed. I watched your Duval video where he threw the club behind him for the follow through. It seems if the body stays "back," hooks or pushes result. The drill where you sanded the ground seems to get you through. Would you be willing to give the secrets of it?
Maybe these will help: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vTsNOGnIfGs.html , ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-H6VRYvFrFEk.html
Great content Milo! You replied to another commenter that the "natural" release happens between p5.5 to P7.5. That makes sense. Can you speak to torso rotation as it relates to the release? Do you feel a constant or accelerating torso rotation, or do you feel a braking sensation of the ribs as you sling your arms/hands around in the release to create a whipping action?
Are those different releases difficult with a strong grip? I've always been under the impression that a strong grip is heavily dependent on an exaggerated body rotational release
Milo - your videos are changing everything. Real knowledge and you have an exceptional eye. I like so many aspiring for a great swing, spend countless hours on the range working on movements and playing with ideas. I have learned more cause and effect in the past week from your content than I have in the last 30 years of reading and watching everything I can find. I have done all the drills ( which I have seen in the past ), but would continue fiddling. Your coaching process fills in the answers. Your content has finally put me on my path. The cause and effects are undeniable. This video content; seeing you do what you do and the results of Trackman help cement the direction. In a couple of weeks I plan to join your online coaching. I need a few weeks to get these movements back into my swing. Once I feel they are mostly back, then I’ll need your coaching eye…. Be seeing you soon. Thanks for this video. More like this please!
Since "feel isn't real" and with all your good golf analysis toys, I'd love to see actual measurements of the vector forces your hands apply to the club along with a plot of the hand and clubhead speeds and resulting ball speed. In #4, the "natural" swing, is this the feel like with a rope drill with no wrist torque, just swinging and letting the weight of the head dictate the hand forces?
In swing 4 my arms provide structure while my wrists are more or less a free hinge responding the inputs from the rotating body and swinging arms and extending legs and pelvis.
would love to see a video with someone with restricted turn ability. 64 with back/neck issues and no way i can rotate like this. i have to have more hands/forearms action to make any speed. more like what larry rinker does. great stuff as usual.......................
Gotta use what you have. If you have everything use it if all you have left is arms and wrists then learn to be as efficient as possible with the lever system.
Likewise, would love to see you, Milo, do videos with people who aren’t able to rotate as much as the younger more nimble golfers 🏌️♂️ you usually use. Not all of us can rotate like this… show us how to compensate please 🙏.
I recently subscribed to the MILO golf on your web page. My password I put in would not work so went to reset it. It is almost impossible to get reset. I spent 30 min trying to reset. When I finally got it reset I tried to put a new password in that I could remember and then I was back to square one . so I tried another 20 min to reset. I finally gave up.
Thank you, Coach Milo! I'm always gobsmacked at how you smash the ball with what looks like minimal effort. Seriously, it's like you're channeling some sort of golf wizardry. And by the way, you're looking pretty fit too-keep up the hard work . . .
Good stuff as usual. There's so much conflicting info on RU-vid, it's hard to know what's effective for my swing. For #4, are there some key feels or things to watch for to know that I'm doing this effectively? Putting these together in one video is very helpful. It makes it easier to understand the different techniques and you have clearly shown that the tension free approach works very well. Thanks!
For #4 you still want to see some dynamic hinging and maintaining of hinge midway through the downswing before the angles begin getting let out. Watching some Tour pros in slow motion would help in illuminating this. The release really doesn't have to be all that important in my opinion, more of a byproduct. Otherwise, I'd have to see your swing to offer personal feedback - milolinesgolf.com.
Thanks for watching! And yeah, I believe this was after a full day of coaching and having multiple people ask me about the release, so thought I'd just whip something together. Filmed it a while back and thought what the heck, maybe I'll post it 😂.
Great video. I was testing this at driving range on Saturday and saw this posted on Sunday morning. Trying to actively start the wrist release as you're turning down to the ball halts the upper body rotation as we can't do two upper-body things at once with any speed. It makes me pull/hook everything unless I use insanely weak grip and my clubhead speed drops off a cliff. Big question here Milo - Are the golf teachers who push the active-release L to L just not realizing what's actually happening in their own swings? Feel vs real.
@@tomsettles6873 I don’t care to talk about other coaches and their ideas. I try to present what I have found to work for the majority of my students and make individual tweaks where necessary for the individual in front of me.
super cool experiment. confirms my feels.. But sometimes my old "steery" hockey slapshot habits come back out and mess it all up. so I'll keep building trust and let club swing. As long as I don't stall the body.. :)
I have seen greater distance and accuracy in “casting the club”. Sounds weird but it has improved my game dramatically. It gets the club back on plane quicker. I’ve had terrible success using a “body swing”. There is no “one way” to swing club. I would say that what ever helps you with regards to increased distance and accuracy, is the “best way” to swing the club.
I've done the same experiment and gotten the opposite results. For me, a late release is very slow at the ball. Obviously, there are other factors going on. The way you release the club with the hands and arms can actually impact how you use the body. It can also happen in reverse. People are wired differently and need to feel different things.
Glad to hear you have made your own discoveries and are willing to test and explore. Different methods and preferences can certainly work. I'd be interested to see a video similar to mine that shows your findings.
This is one of the most informative experiments I've watched! It was great to have the Trackman data to observe as I could see the difference in launch angles as your release changed. Thanks for thinking outside the box and providing evidence of what happens under different conditions!
Thanks for the video. Ive been experimenting with hitting a fade, and was curious as to where i should release the club , as I dont think swinging over the top would give great results. I learned something different here, but very useful. I'll stay tuned, thanks again
I don't feel like ever actively release the club, it just happens naturally and my alignments and matchups create the fade for me. I'd have to see your swing to offer you the best feedback. Have you looked into working with me or joining my online academy? milolinesgolf.com
First of all, great video, thanks Milo! A question, how do you ensure you don't get stuck with your arms and elbow? I see you manage to keep a very good structure, but when I try the sameI get my left arm pinned against my chest. I think that's why some teachers advocate for an early release, as that is putting the arms in motion and help you get unstuck.
You learn to build proper structure and how to flex and rotate correctly. Most players are trying to push off their trail side and spin their hips which leaves the arms in a bad spot.
Could be a good practice and it's in a way one of the foundations for my athletic swing model. Have you looked into joining my online academy or working with me one-on-one so I could offer the best feedback and guide? milolinesgolf.com
What might low does not address is the fact that most people if they swung the way, he recommends would not be able to close the club face at the right time. For most people, the club face would be wide open.
Milo, please do a collaboration video with the guys at Athletic Motion Golf! I would LOVE to see a video like this because your philosophy and AMG’s philosophy are drastically different. I know that one of your students and one of their students has the potential to appear the same on camera but the fact is that you guys teach in very different ways. I’d love to see a video to reconcile your guys different teaching FEELS. Not a combative video where one way is the correct way but at the same time, I’d love to hear you guys discuss differences in philosophy. I think us golf student’s would be better off understanding why two teachers have such different philosophies.
@milo The biggest difference between your guys approaches is the emphasis on body rotation. It isn’t that AMG doesn’t think it’s necessary but you have more emphasis on it than they do.
They have been critical of my coaching philosophy which is fine we all know there are many ways to swing a club and have success but they have also attacked me personally so I’m not sure it would be a good idea.
Your three wood swing at 6:32 looks like so many of my videos of my swing. 3:03 is what I am struggling with. I want so much to understand how to get to the feeling you describe before the 8:56 swing.
I somehow manage to not release driver and longer clubs, producing a duck hooked, topped or skyed driver due to negative loft. To hit it solid I need to feel the right arm / shoulder low in setup and right arm going under in the strike.
@@MiloLinesGolfNeed to get myself a tripod or something to film the caddie view. As I believe it is more difficult to see the release from down the line. Then maybe I can send something in via the web site.
Each scenario I believe help new golfers as they are doing too much of 1 or the other. I started golf later in life, & nothing feels natural to me. I have really fast twitch reflexes, I couldnt even feel the club release. Ur videos are great Milo, thanks.
Have you spoke to Mike Malaska as to why he advocates the “tipping” of the club? After 50+ years of teaching, he seems to swear by the technique. Thanks.
I don’t know if this is supposed to be the ‘Malaska move’ but it definitely isn’t the ‘tipping out’ which Mike Malaska advocates. As Mike Malaska says, the tipping out move has nothing to do with the unhinging of the wrists but that is what is being shown here.
@@drleftie I agree with you. A person can certainly “tip out” incorrectly and destroy the action. I’m sort of confused about what Milo is advocating here.
