Where Do You Stand Politically? | “28% Sympathise More With Palestine Than Israel" | Polling Special 

Well said. Rory is a thoroughly decent human being, and makes an enormous contribution.

​@@philipmulville8218 Rory is clearly struggling to reconcile that fact that unfettered free markets result in the demise of humanity.

Well done you.

I understand you went through a horrible ordeal and you are right to be more cautious and switched on thereafter. But being deliberately difficult against NHS staff (who god knows have a hard enough time already) and then boasting about it makes you seem a frankly horrible person.

@@adamboh393 That’s very judgemental.

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@adamboh393so because NHS staff have had a hard time one shouldn’t risk demanding good medical care and be at risk of being a ‘difficult patient”, What’s even worse is talking about the lengths you went to made sure you received good medical care.

@@sookibeulah9331 Except they aren't talking about that. They had one nurse mistreat them, which i acknowledge to be wrong and traumatic. But now boasts how they treat all medical staff as their enemy. The NHS aren't slackers, if you are being 'challenging and difficult' its because you are being challenging and difficult, it's not because they are upset at your fierce independence. They provided good treatment, saved this women's life and made sure their two children entered this world healthy and alive and this persons goes online to bad mouth them and boasts about adding stress and difficulty to their day? No, I'm sorry but that makes you sound like a bad person.

I’m furious he’s not PM personally

I came here to post that exact comment. I do live in a 'safe' seat, so none of the parties actually bother. The only time I can recall having an MP on the doorstep was well before I could vote and the MP, Sir Nicholas Bonzer, spoke to my Dad.

Where do you live they keep knocking at my door and my MP keeps sending out invites.

More like "what my party / lobbyist told me to say"

10 years ago it was the best performing healthcare system in the world. Oh how the mighty have fallen…

100% it's far too big and has far too many layers of management and is inefficient like the majority of our public services... extremely expensive for what you get in return.

Personally I think reform of the NHS should be the first priority of the incoming Government. It will break Britain otherwise. Alas, however, its sacred cow position in the UK as shown by this polling indicates proper reform is nigh on impossible.

​@@ijw2009 that is 100% a probable lie that the right tells to justify why the NHS is bad. We underspend compared with Europe on almost every single measure. That is why the NHS is in a state. The TORIES have systematically underfunded it. Do not for one second believe that absolute lie: Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person - 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655. Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK. Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

British sense of humour is, though.

If the Israeli citizens are blaming netenyahu and his government more for their response in getting the hostages back then that tells you everything…

I also felt that this episode accurately demonstrated Alistairs' lack of self-awareness, inability to reflect on the effects of his own decisions when 'in' power, both of which come across as arrogance

I think that a third of households have a combined income of £50k+. For individuals, you're probably in the top 15% if you earn this much by yourself. Even so, being in the top third doesn't make you a failure at all. That implies that the bottom 2/3 are all failures, which is an unhealthy outlook.

@@sb_dunk well my point is that I'm in the bottom 2/3rds. If a third of folk can earn that much as individuals that is a very large number when the average *household* income is about 35k.

Being able to see a geographic distribution of incomes might be very interesting.

@@jezlawrence720 Right, but you're not in the bottom 2/3, you're in the top 15%. And you earn more on your own than the average household. You deemed yourself to be a failure because you *thought* you were in the lower bracket, and my point is that doing so means that you measure success purely by how much better you think you're doing than others, which is not productive.

Ah I see. Well, no my sense of failure was not particularly linked to being in a lower bracket, it is linked to the fact I have no - and have never had - drive or ambition and thus will be working until I'm 70+, assuming I live that long in the first place. Its more a pure jealousy thing when I look at folk earning that kind of cash, rather than a 'comparing myself' thing. Its the same feeling as 'I wish I could win the lottery'. And I'm definitely not saying it's healthy!

Tice avoids all tricky questions on policy, because RUK policy is ridiculous..

​@@True_HereticWhich policy or policies are ridiculous? Every single one of them?

@@IainFrame Zero NHS waiting lists. It'll take years to sort that situation out. And great cost. (They never cost their potential expenditures. Its just spend, spend, spend). Net Zero immigration. That would mean taking on no new nurses, having no new students and the money they bring in, unless we deported people on a grand scale, which would be illegal. Lower energy costs. Again, massive investment would be required. And it would take decades to bring to its fruition. I doubt most people who will vote for them will bother to find out what policies they'll be voting for as well.

@@True_Heretic But surely *wanting* zero NHS waiting lists isn't an awful policy itself. Yes perhaps expensive in the short term. Everything costs money. Every tax break, every bit of quantitative easing, they all cost money. Tice said a moratorium on immigration i.e. *temporary* block, not permanent. Immigration is a Ponzi scene. The more you let in, the more you need to keep letting in and subsidise to keep the system running. That leads to an insane demand on infrastructure and housing. It has to be brought back under control somehow.

​@@IainFrame Its not an awful policy if its feasible. Its a great policy then. But all parties want to improve the NHS, its a question of practicality. And there's a problem with Reform and the NHS. Farage was caught on a spy camera a while back talking about ending the NHS. Selling it off. Just as Trump wants us to. If that happened only those who could afford private medicine would be served. Other members of Reform have hinted at some privatisation as well. So the zero waiting lists would be because there was no NHS anymore. The NHS will always be incredibly expensive. Medicine and expert treatments always are. I think we need to think outside the box, modernise, tech up, and look for alternative funding, as well as serious government investment. We also need to encourage people to make more healthy decisions, which in itself will lessen the demands on the service without costing a penny. And we could introduce say a health tax on alcohol, as it causes so many accidents and so much violence, as well as serious health issues, that an extra 15%, say, would go straight to the NHS. I say that as an avid drinker. But I still think it would make things better. I'm certainly not saying immigration isn't an issue. Not only does it upset a lot of people, it also, as you say, places huge demands on limited resources. But there is so much propaganda out there about people in small boats when the reality is that most people coming here at the moment are nurses and students and one helps with the NHS whilst the other brings in free money into our economy. We don't want to kill the goose that laid the golden egg because certain right wing groups/you tube channels are dealing in hyperbole and fake news with all this "Stop the boats" nonsense. But there is, of course, still this problem of over-working the infrastructure. We have a health service fit for 55 million and a population of 67 million. But the solution is simple. Many of the 15 million people who have arrived here under the Tory's rule are working people who pay tax. Clearly tax revenue must have risen considerably but I bet anything an equivalent rise in investment in the NHS, schools, housing development etc has not been made. So its not immigrants who are causing the problem. Its bad management by the government. A government that constantly passes the buck and never takes responsibilty for its neglectful and self-serving ways. Another aspect of immigration is the obvious disconnect between "traditional" Britons., ie white people, and people who lack that heritage. Especially when there are ideological differences like religion rearing their ugly head. (I say that as an agnostic, not as an anti-Muslim). What I think we need, and I've talked to Muslims about this and many agree, is much better communication and a less fearful/paranoia in relation to each other. We are all in this together if we like it or not. And countries are always at their best when there is unity rather than division. Instead of going the Reform way and splitting our society still further, I think we need to understand each other and understand the terrible mess we are in economically. Because there are many horsemen of the economic apocalypse. Brexit, Covid, Russia have hurt us badly. But there is also the benefit and pensions crisis and a looming Alzheimers crisis. And who knows what else may come. An even worse pandemic perhaps. Or World War III. We have to find ways of developing a more robust economy that will be capable of dealing with the current problems and potential future ones. And a united society, everyone playing a part, everyone seeing the good sense of a common goal and a better future. I could go on about what that might entail, but I've already talked your eyes off today. So I'll leave it at that Iain. Cancel Reply

A lot of his issues were with his MP's some wanting Brexit gave him a hard time, he was old school and fairly decent, but the public services were run down by the 1990's and ERM crisis didn't help. Certainly he was far better than Boris & Lizz.

You have a point.

Yes I think this is correct, I do think there is a small contingent of people who would prefer a 'strong authoritarian leader', but overall I think it's more that people feel Parties in Democracies only have policies that people want during election years then drop them whilst in Government, or water those policies down so much to the point they may as well not have bothered. It's the corruption people can't stand, the lust for power taking priority over the will of the people.

It's also ignored that parties themselves have become authoritarian. They don't brook differences of opinion, are stuffed with careerists, and have close ties to the security establishment that have worked tirelessly to erode civil liberties.

I wonder how much is voters becoming more authoritarian per se, and how much is just voters becoming more radical, which isn't so much about _what_ changes (though each will obviously have their preference) but a willingness to shake up the status quo somehow? It's the main issue with Labour's current messaging as I view it. It's not about the left-rightness, it's about the radicalness, the aspiration. The more you highlight how fundamentally broken the country is in a number of areas (thus don't trust the Tories, and vote for change), the more radical you'd expect the suggested solution to be. "Everything's broken, we can't go on like this!" "Cool, yeah, I agree! So what are you going to do instead?" "Well, we're going to go on exactly like this, except we're going to very cautiously think about _maybe_ doing some little things differently, where circumstances allow." "😐"

@@zak3744 You really didn't say anything here. Yet I agree entirely.

One could say the same thing about the first-past-the-post voting system which allows the House of Commons to do far more damage in a practical day-to-day sense than anything the royal family does. But keeping saps worked up about the royals is a nice way to distract them from the corruption of democracy that is actually going on.

I think you've misunderstood what soft power means. Yes if you take away soft power from soft power it will have less soft power

why are you so surprised? the silent majority supports Israel. Europe is turning to the right. Europeans have a negative attitude towards immigration and Islam I think most of us can swallow this woke anti -European and anti-white hysteria.

When one side wants the genocide of the Jews it isn’t going to happen !! That’s why they intend to eliminate them . They’ve seen it before and said they’d nerved let it happen again .

Israel is committing genocide, wake up!!! with the aid of Europe and America. Palestine doesn't even have an army

Yes, the David Kelly question is an interesting one. Seems to have been brushed under the carpet.

Excellent point!

It depends what questions were asked. My son and I filled in one of those online questionnaires for vouchers (checked it was official/not a scam first!) where among other things you were asked to rate the importance of certain issues. COVID and immigrants in boats were two of them. My son ticked not important for COVID and important for small boats, because the pandemic was largely over whilst people were still drowning in the Channel. He did not believe COVID had never been important, nor that people arriving in boats should be sent to Rwanda, but his answers could be interpreted that way in the absence of further clarification. I answered the opposite way to him for that reason, although we actually have very similar views on both these issues. "Important" doesn't necessarily mean "I agree with the solution proposed by the government", but if the government wants to believe it does, that's what's going to be published.

@@annphillips1086i think their survey is careful. Eg first time they asked hamas vs Israel and then mentioned they'd ask Palestine vs Israel as that would get different answers. They know caring about boats and agreeing with rawanda are different things

100%. The Assange story is utterly shameful and undermines any claim Britain would make to be a fair country that stands up for human rights and fair treatment.

Mores the pity

I think he might draw the line at Jacob Rees-Mogg!

One commentator did mention that Jacob Rees mogg does have an opportunity to pull the funniest political stunt in history.

It wouldn't surprise me if he got accepted, given the way Labour is going. It would have me laughing, though, to be fair.

Considering that Labours closest advisor, Sith Lord Mandelson referred to the Green party as a political dustbin, I suspect that anyone wishing to defect from the Greens would be told to Fπ¢K off!

He'll accept Jacob Rees Mogg but not George Galloway

lol. I like the Podcast but they are both pretty delusional about what real people think

@@ricdontap1 I love the podcast, but what chance do the pair have of meeting "real people" - remember the 'Life of Brian' quote - "[Crowd] We're all different". I believe almost all politicians fib to some extent. Paid politicians are therefore mostly 'professional' liars?

​@@gdm2417 Politicians are actually usually very honest. Its very rare to catch a lie. What they are is MISLEADING. People think politicians lie because they take what they INFERED as what was actually SAID, when it wasn't. Alister will know Tony rarely lies. He's just conveniently overlooking Tony being misleading, probably because Alister helped him do this.

There seem to be way more chickens around these days, Kidar. As there were in Deutschland in 1934.

The so called centrists have also been authoritarian taking their lead from Thatcher

@@True_Heretic Yep, that's very much my view as well. History is cyclical, because people clearly don't actually take onboard the lessons learned from past historical mistakes. Whether that's because they don't understand, or don't care, or simply don't believe what their own eyes and ears tell them and instead trust various institutions with a dangerous blind faith, I have no idea. I wish more of the population was educated more roundly in the sociology and psychology surrounding historical events. I was very lucky to have a history teacher who was a member of Amnesty International, and took very seriously his role in guiding today's kids into becoming tomorrow's adults. He was a rabble rouser with a soft way of speaking, but whose words carried a lot of weight with me, and never failed to impart the wisdom of how a situation came to be, and how the public was manipulated by leadership via the media. A little Noam Chomsky would go a long way toward educating people about the threats facing society today, but I have to admit, even for being someone who reads US Geological Survey reports for fun, Noam Chomsky's writings are a tough slog, because they cover a lot of ground and require a lot of thought to process it all.

@@KidarWolf Love your comment. Amnesty is very much opposed to what Israel does. And there are plenty of Jewish people who are fine members of Amnesty. Which is why a criticism of Israel can never automatically be "Anti-semitic" no matter what extremists say. Israel needs the protection of international law. Yet it breaks that law itself. Does that country want to be entirely abandoned by the rest of us?

@@KidarWolf Big fan of Noam Chomsky as well.

He's a horrible, conniving man who's somehow passed into "harmless elder statesman" territory, and most people seem to have forgotten his key role in so much of what's wrong with modern politics. For god's sake, he had a dramedy / sitcom based on him and British government shenanigans!

The rest is propaganda

Spin doctors have existed for all of time. You give Campbell too much credit.

This must have been a moment when he thought: "wow, people thing differently than we do!" , looking out the window and seeing million people on the streets. If not, then he's obviously... you can finish the sentence yourself.

Never trusted Thatcher, personally.

Interestingly in my experience they do know about it. I believe that the NHS is the largest employer in the world- it is quite famous.

I think it's existence shows the alternative to profit based health systems. It is quite influential in the US health debate, where they have to use untruths to defend the private system.

@@ewen6662nd largest. Chinese armed forces emoloyes more people

@@adamlang7361 Yes, maybe so - but is that really power?

@@ewen666 Thanks for letting me know - I hadn't heard this

You mean faaaaaaaaar-right.

Sadly that government has a strong mandate from the Israeli people. Rehabilitating that nation is going to be a long, hard process 🙁

@@markwelch3564 Same with Gaza and Hamas unfortunately.

@@dale6947 I suspect support for Hamas would disappear pretty quickly if Gaza had a legitimate defence force instead. A lot of the current support comes from the utter lack of an alternative

AMEN!

What does Israel mean to you? Does it mean it's people? 90% of whom agree with the genocide. Doesn't mean agreeing with its current boarders which include settler land they stole? Which bit of Israel do you mean?

You can be pro Jewish and anti genocide and anti Israel, is that what you meant?

City of London is a very odd thing. It's barely part of the UK, companies elect officials rather than residents, the Remembrancer is from another world.

Those guys are the very best of journalists.

I haven't seen much of their English coverage, but their Arabic coverage has been absolutely dreanged and disgusting

​@@ehudshapira2745watch,English Version

@@ehudshapira2745 Tell me. What is it like to be a modern day NazI?

@@True_Heretic I would love for you to tell me how you reached that conclusion about me in detail.

They totally skipped over it too - they must have spent all of two minutes discussing it before moving on. I expected better than this kind of clickbait journalism from this podcast.

I suspect the percent of population earning more than £50,000 a year, is actually based on household income rather than individuals, I.e here you are taking often two incomes and not dividing by total population as you did with UC. Interesting choice to use total population as the denominator for universal credit, (to make it look low) and then use households when comparing income (to make it look high). If you're going to use a consistent phrase like "population" in your polling questions, and that might make sense for simplicity, but you should use a consistent and proper dominator.

Australia is a PROPER country. Unlike UK or USA. They took you to the front of the queue? Good on them! I envy you, living there.

And give 'em a sausage.

​@@True_HereticCoz of all the migrants maybe.

​@soulsphere9242totally agree. I remember my Dad an English immigrant going on and on about PR. He was wrong! PR ensures stronger democracy. So does having a representative house of review.

Yes please

Good call!

I *was* going to ask if counts of spoiled ballots were published in AUS or not, pointing out that (eg) the much-publicised margin between Richard Parker and Andy Street in Mayoral election here was less than the number of spoiled/blank ballots - *now* I can't find the numbers on web. I'd like to class spoiled ballots as VOTING; in my opinion shows a lot. Has Mr Spoiled of the Blank Party ever "won" a UK election? In a world full of multiple-choice questions, why can't we have an official/single "None of These b**ds" option?

Yes. But compulsory voting gives a much better result and truer indication of community feeling than voluntary voting. Brexit would never have been a successful referendum in Australia. In addition, under the Australian constitution, which recognises that the effects of any referendum may impact different parts of the country differently then not only is there a need for a majority of individual votes but a majority of jurisdictions. So, if only England and Wales voted for Brexit and Scotland NI and Gibraltar, Channel Islands voted against then no Brexit. Although I believe compulsory voting would have ensured the referendum would be defeated. Then there's PR of course. 2 things I agree with Farage: get rid of House of Lords and introduce PR. Britain could learn much from the former Dominions' modernisation and modification of the Westminster system.

That is compulsory voting. It's not about forcing you to pick someone but making sure you actively choose not to vote.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_(weapons_expert)#

What do you mean what does he mean?

As has been pointed out, compulsory voting does not oblige someone to vote for this, or that party. In Australia, voters can submit a blank, or spoiled ballot paper. The important thing is their non-vote gets to be recorded. Indifference has a statistic put against it.

@@t.p.mckenna if we could register that none of the above are suitable, like a reopening of nominations. Somehow like a negative vote. For me that is different to spoiling the paper or just saying none of the above, because that doesn't change anything. We can spoil here but we don't have a none option, which I do feel is quite different. That's why I don't think compulsory voting is a good idea *unless* the system here is changed to allow for those views to be expressed, as you describe. Although even then I'd need to think hard. State compulsion of something is dodgy territory.

@@DrGreenGiant I was looking at stats for the state of Victoria where just 5% refuse to vote, so it doesn't seem to be a great issue for them. There isn't a 'none of these' option, as you suggest, however, it seems to be a tradition to draw a picture of a penis on he ballot paper as a legitimate way of spoiling it.

Oh dear a military blimp speaks...should send in the troops eh? Who do they think they are protesting against mass murder..etc..etc