Where Does Religion Come From? Religion for Breakfast (Ep. #25) 

Please interview Douglas Hedley please please #comment2

I think your pessimism about what purpose religion serves ignores the possibility that religion may be parasitising upon the supposed cultural bastions you say might be holding society together, rather than being the foundations of those bastions. For instance - our tendency to regard unjustified killing might be claimed by Christians to emanate from Christian Commandments, but is it really? Did people really go around murdering with abandon before Christianity, and did we stop once we became Christianised? I think not. Christianity especially has a reputation for laying claim to foundational cultural attitudes that it has in fact been totally oblivious to or has actively opposed in the past. So religion may be simply one instantiation of 'cultural regulation', rather than the only instantiation of it. Or, if religion is simply the act of imposing regulation upon society, then would it even make sense to say that religion can decline, let alone is declining? It may be that what we're actually saying by 'religion is declining in the west, then, would be simply that one instantiation of religion is declining, not that, as intrinsically religious beings, we are losing that behavioural trait. edit. Maybe it's the case that it wasn't actually that pretty fence that was keeping the rats out. Maybe it was the ditch that was dug in order to provide enough earth to construct the rampart upon which the fence was built that has been keeping the rats out. And maybe there are no rats at all - maybe whoever wanted to build the fence in the first place needed to make an excuse for building it that was good enough to scare people into letting him build it...

I'm not entirely sure your reference to Zizek is actually saying what you think it is saying. He starts by talking about coke - "It is the mysterious and elusive X we are all after in our compulsive consumption. The unexpected result of this is not that, since Coke doesn't satisfy any concrete need we drink it only as supplement, after some other drink has satisfied our substantial need - it is rather this very superfluous character that makes our thirst for Coke all the more insatiable. Coke has the paradoxical quality that the more you drink it, the more you get thirsty. So, when the slogan for Coke was “Coke is it!”, we should see in it some ambiguity - it's “it” precisely insofar as it's never IT, precisely insofar as every consumption opens up the desire for more." Then notes that when we're drinking diet coke, "All that remains is pure semblance, an artificial promise of a substance which never materialized. Is it not that in the case of caffeine-free diet Coke that we almost literally drink nothing in the guise of something?" So far from being a condemnation of the idea of atheist churches, it is in fact an endorsement of them, in the sense that it is fulfilling our subconscious desire 'for the thing', while not actually involving the consumption of the active ingredients harmful to us - ie the sugary religious morality. If we HAVE to drink the coke, because it's in our nature, then surely drinking the diet coke, is a way of getting 'IT' in a less harmful way.

Get Peter Hitchens on if you aren't a coward. Your cropped video gave him no right of reply. Even Christopher would be ashamed of you for that.

@@HoratioKJV Peter Hitchens is a conspiracy theorist fool who has nothing valid to say about anything. And I think you are being harsh on Alex for the wrong reasons here. If you watch the actual conversation, you'll see that the Religion for Breakfast guy more or less agreed with everything Alex said. The real reason for objecting to this clip is that it didn't really showcase his guest at all. It's kinda like he enjoyed his own input a little too much...

I’ve kept wondering why I never hear Pascal Boyer’s book mentioned on this channel. When I studied History of Religion 2 books kept getting mentioned by students and professors alike (even though they weren’t on the curriculum); Religion Explained was one of them, and the other was “What is Religion?” by Jeppe Sinding. Happy to see Pascal Boyer getting some love. His book deserves a lot more attention!

I thought he is an evolutionary psychologist

Audiobooks?

@@arusirham3761 Lmao. The same goes to Ludwig Feuerbach, this is even my first time seeing Alex discuss Religion from a kind of evolutionary and anthropological perspective though he sometimes mentioned it, I’ve never truly seen a video of him doing something like: “How evolution make us believe in God(s)” that kind of theme. Pascal Boyer book really is a good pick for the study of religion, as well as Feuerbach “The Essence of Christianity” I recommend it.

Check out "Big Gods" by Ara Norenzyan

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​@@Bluewolf- Respectfully, I often wonder if there is any such thing as the "true answers". But I'll check it out.

Dare i compare it to mutual masturbation. Dry joke. It burns. Lol...

Seriously, Jung and Freud like deep and meaningful for a while up until when Sigmund ceased to learn and before Victor Frankl wrote last chapters by gaining education where few could. Meaning matters.

I like your honesty and indeed it must have been difficult when you left Christianity. Are you still on good terms with your parents? I'm a Christian believer and yet I sometimes feel like I've "wasted" my life. Do you still believe in God, just not the god of Christianity? Hope you don't mind my questions. If too personal, just let me know. Respectfully...

You shouldn’t feel awful in the least. Your parents chose to treat you as an investment rather than an individual. They took a risk, it is not in a n’y way your duty or job to make food on their risky investment. You saw through their faulty ideology after being indoctrinated in it, that is astonishing and you should be very proud! On a personal note, my partner was raised in an independent fundamentalist baptist church like the guy was talking about at the beginning, 40-50 person totalitarian church. He never believed the religious aspect, and knew he was gay very early on, but was mostly cut off from secular culture up through high school, even despite living only a short train ride from NYC. He was Christian homeschooled, went to a Christian high school, Christian sports, Christian EVERYTHING. He disowned his parents when he was 19 or 20, and has never looked back. They are dead to him. His freakish mother still desperately tries to manipulate him, sends him things, finds out addresses. It’s gross. That kind of religiosity is really a disorder. Your parents treated you as an investment, not a person…it’s so…primitive. You should be very proud of yourself for seeing through that. The pain of separation is very real and it has made my partners life harder, but he would not change it for anything. We’ve been together happily for ten years. Make your own family, find some Unitarians, they are wonderful communities. Do not hate yourself. You are not an investment, you are a full human being worthy of respect.

@@baizhanghuaihai2298 Hi, I appreciate your comment! Sounds like your partner went through a lot :( Yes, I do consider myself fortunate to have escaped… it took about a year of trying to reconcile what I was thinking, many tears, and much frustration and fear. My parents are honestly some of the best people I know, they are very generous and loving… they themselves fell prey to indoctrination from a young age. My mom almost fell from the faith when she was my age, but her parents essentially convinced her not to. I think that Terror Management Theory plays a huge role in religion, and I can DEFINITELY see it working in my mom’s case. They have treated me as an individual for the most part, but also considered me a “gift” that they have stewardship over… yes, investment might also be a good word to use, I think.

@@johnbrzykcy3076 Hi, I’m on very good terms with them! Things have just changed a bit… there’s a tension there that was previously inexistent. My family is very close. Yes, it is easy to feel that way I think, about wasting one’s life Christian or not. Time seems to pass so quickly, and oftentimes we don’t use our resources and time as we should. I do feel as though it is more horrifying for the non believer though, since they have no hope of living eternally/having another chance to live well in an afterlife. Also, no, I do not believe in any god. It is scary but what I believe to be the case

@@oliviadawes3345 Stay strong, you’re clearly an awesome person, and it’s lucky (mostly for them!) that they haven’t disowned you…maybe you all will come to a reasonable place with it, I sure hope so! Not all indoctrinated Christian’s are ghastly, and I do bet your parents are kind and loving people☺ (My partner’s parents happen to be abusive and manipulative, so…it’s a different situation in that way🤷)

I'm not familiar with "religion for breakfast" but I really like this discussion. Let's start off strong and finish strong ! Can I do it ?

@johnbrzykcy3076 you should really go check their channel out, it's what got me interested in Christian history/theology/apologetics in the first place.

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Oliver! Have a look at: ''e risale english''. Just write it exactly in a search box. Pops up at the top of your search. It will give you the true answers. This is the real thing! Have a read...

I'm a Catholic and I've noticed something along the same lines. Hardliner traditionalists and the anti-Pope Francis types (EWTN, Taylor Marshall, Church Militant, Viganó, Pavone etc.) attract a much larger following than softer, neutral/liberal types (Jim Martin or America media). In the political sphere too, Trump, Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate, have stronger cult-like followings than any comparable figure in the center or left. These followings are based more on feelings and identity rather than policy or data. (The exception I would make is some fringe woke identity groups that can be very imposing.)

That depends on what you mean by or how you define a Christian does it not?

I 'desirable' the right word? If you already believe, then the stricter, more socially all encompassing a religion is, the higher the cost of leaving. In troubled times, people look for a crutch to guide them through. A dogmatic strict religion provides a better crutch than one which asks you to make up your own mind and think for yourself.

​@@psiberti think it goes both ways. If you're looking for a judgement free lifestyle with no rules why not just go without a religion? It seems that one of the things people are seeking from religions is guidance and instruction so the less specific those things are the less desirable they might be to a potential believer.

I have to say, as a heavy consumer of this genre of RU-vid videos, there is a lot out there. There are plenty of thoughtful and reasonable academic conversations to enjoy. But beware, too much contemplation can lead you away from the unalterable word of god

On the contrary to the comment above me, I gotta say that contemplating too much just makes you understand religion better, and if you tie it to the factual and beautiful history of the world, you may eventually leave the concept of "God" altogether. And that's okay, did you know that the hardest part of leaving religion is the discrimination you'll face by your people? The hate, lack of love and lack of forgiveness can be shocking. But, after that, you are free. You become more responsible and empathetic, maybe a little cynical if you focus on the apparent void religion leaved behind. My deconversion was a tough, long process, that not only made me a better person, it sparked all what I've missed all my life. (If you wonder the things I've missed is not addictions nor "mundane" activities, but a deeper connection to the world and the people)

​@@viekent the idea that too much education is bad for religion does nothing to help the notion that it is a nefarious construct.

@@jhart1127 no it's when education becomes brainwashing by atheists. that's the problem, when they introduce their bias into education.

​@@aa-to6wswith all due respect, that's an entirely subjective experience. Mine was opposite to yours. I began researching as an atheist mind, but through philosophical teachings, maturity of the "soul" and life experience, I've become rather religious. And contrary to yours, my family was and is deeply religious, but they never shunned or judged me. I might just have good family around me. In this case, yours might be not so good. Or it could be something else. Anyway, if in doubt, I reccomend Michael Sugrue and his beautiful lectures on philosophy which are free on youtube. It might be weird to say but with age, I've come to the conclusion of God existing through rationality and common sense. But again, it's a subjective experience...

Tribalism

Facts^

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Thanks for your honesty. I had stage 3 colon/rectal cancer and then lung cancer. The weird thing is I never thought much about death until I had the cancer. Actually, I guess it's not weird. I didn't become more "religious" but I actually started to read more books by Christian scholars and I also began to have doubts regarding Jesus' identity. I also became cognizant of the apparent hiddeness of God. But I still believe Jesus was the Son of God. Do you mind if I ask, what feelings did you have during the cancer that caused you to lose your faith? Don't worry, I'm not on here to judge. Peace

@@johnbrzykcy3076 I don’t really mind answering. It’s actually something I enjoy sharing. But it’s a bit too long of a story to share here. And really, the biggest factors in losing my faith completely came after I went into remission. One of the biggies was with everyone around me saying things like, “God is so good for healing you! He obviously loves you so much!” That seemed rather ad hoc. Like, does he NOT love all the people who died of the very same thing I had before amazing treatments were recently developed? I thought about that and sought answers from many places, but found nothing convincing. And again, there’s a lot more I could say. You also mention hiddenness. That was a HUGE factor for me.

Wow, you do seem to be an outlier but I can see how an initial resentment could be the catalyst for deconversion; how could a loving god do this to me, one begins to see the inconsistencies and contradictions, yada yada yada. Was that true for you?

Is they point out, religiosity increases even among atheists. For me, being actively suicidal after getting a bad job helped me understand that what seemed to work for my parents and grandparents did not work for me. That means that I was looking for it to work, I cared if it did work or not, that's what they mean by increasing religiosity, that we tend to take these things more seriously.

Why do you suppose that you are - or are capable of being, a christian?

Sameee

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Allyou beings of the active sex go through a rebellious anti-all sorts of things phas betwen about 12 and 16, but they grow out of it, and it comes about in much the same way as puppies grow into their ears and paws, but with young men it is not just biology but becoming aware of how they cannot control their functions, particularly the emotional function to the mechanical(means choiceless)reactions of which only a grownup man can be indifferent. The young"*Care*, they simply cannot help it, but it's only a phase and they grow out of it. All young males or beings of the active sex seek attention and become confrontational as do all young male animals that must compete for mates; they want confrontation be it physical emotional or intellectual and they are still only beginning to become accustomed to their functions. I guess but do not know , having only caused results of the active sex, or had sons, that something similar happens with young beings of the passive sex. Human beings are very complicated machines with lots of functions- five or more, most of which operate automatically and mechanically and I wish I had been told about that when I was young. The older the get, the free_ er you get you learn not to care,*not* to give shit. In the words of the Maurice Chevalier song: " I'm glad I'm not young any more, but being 70+ and kicking your heels in death's waiting room is not that much fun either. The words of dear old Rimpoche whatever he was called at the beginning of Zeitgeist have a lot of sense in them; waiting to be dead. It is all thst morality ethics bunkum that is the centre of gravity of religion and of course the young fall for that bullshit as water runs downhill- they as-is-said... *CAre*, big mistake....... *Huge*Of course *all* of politics is religion and the young fall for that bullshit similarly helplessly.As churchill put it: "If you are not a socialist by the ageof seventeen you have no heart, and if you are still a socialist (and of course socislism is a religion)at the age of fifty, you have no head. Men(human beings) are three-brained(and lots more functioned) beings with two natures because that is what being means. It is not easy or comfortable being a man at any age and terribly difficult(with no end of *wholly unnecessary*suffering) when you are young. "Become yourself, then god and the devil don't matter", is easy to say, but anyone knows how it is actually done, do let me know. The business of men( human beings) is to both become and *perfect* themselves- and perfect does not mean what you might imagine it means but rather to finish or accomplish, but that is not a matter for anyone under 40, so don't you concern yourself with that. A man's god is that which is more important to him than anything else at any given moment, and generally to be found between the sternum and the knees, and is a matter of fact to be verified, not that dreadful weakness of men the is belief. You pretty soon learn *the hard way* what is more important to you than anything else at any given moment, but it is not always one and the same thing or things, because*Nothing in a man or human being remains the same for more than a few moments All that*mister* god* anthropomorphic nonsense is precisely that: Anthropomorphic nonsense. Relion or all that good/evil, right/wrong, morality/ethics mumbo jumbo tends to stupefy and hypnotise men -*Particularly* when it takes the form of that form of religion that is called politics and there are any number of religions that men invent almost by the hourand starting with the current near official religion modernist, they ar Modernism, socialism wimminism homosexualism globalwarming/climate change_ism, and of course the biggest religion of them all *Scientism* -Oo la la the *passions tat are arouse by scientism whose acolytes are the most fervent of them all , and seemingly their mister god is a mister Evolution, which is of course complete nonsense.

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Does this surprise you? Some people are so empty they need exclusivity as validation, and the more "special" or exclusive, the more these empty people feel like they are special.

It's called "sunk cost"- If I just GIVE you $100 (or a car, or whatever thing), no cost, no obligation, you're far more likely to just blow the cash on frivolous nonsense, or maybe even give it away. As opposed to if you EARN the $100/car, where you're more likely to be careful with it. It's why lotto winners are notorious for going broke, a year or two after the win. But it's relatively rare for people to blow their life savings in the same way. If you can just get something for nothing, it CAN'T be worth much, can it? (Even it's identical to a thing that others work for, and cherish)

Facism.

Like the poster That Guy said around the same time as Barackus here (16 hours ago from this post), religious/in-group behaviors are geared towards protecting the comradery of shared experiences that they gain in that group. They are coding the group for protection, thinking a stranger is more dangerous than a person that is familiar with the group workings/rituals. Evolutionary perspectives are so eye-opening.

I think there is sunk cost. But there is also a self-selection bias.' Once word gets out that the induction is unpleasant, than you're going to get more people applying who authentically desire what the group has to offer. It filters out the apathetic or self-deceiving.

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They mean that evolution is a pseudo-religion and not a genuine one. It can also be seen as ironic that those who reject religion end up creating secular pseudo-religions of their own.

@@fatamorgana909 Might I recommend finishing your high school education, so you can tell the difference between a religion and a science?

@@Leszek.Rzepecki I did that, and have a PhD as well. The idea of secular pseudo-religions has been put forward by many serious thinkers in various disciplines: George Steiner's 'Nostalgia for the Absolute', John Gray's 'Heresies', Eric Voegelin's 'Science, Politics and Gnosticism', David Noble's 'The Religion of Technology', and many others. Examples of secular pseudo-religions they refer to include Auguste Comte's Religion of Humanity, as well as the quasi-religious features of Marxism, Nazism, Transhumanism, and many others. Ludwig Feuerbach, a major influence on Freud, argued that humanity itself, rather than God, should be the object of worship. He said of his philosophy that ‘it takes the place of religion and has the essence of religion within itself. In truth, it is itself religion’.

@@fatamorgana909 Apparently not. Otherwise you'd simply admit that science is backed by evidence, while religion is simply made-up voodoo. Accepting scientific theories provisionally pending further evidence is neither religious nor "pseudo-religious." I agree certain secular political philosophies, if that's the right word, have verged on the religious. Nazism and communism are two that spring to mind. Personally, the only thing I worship is my pension. I couldn't exist without it.

how do nihilist find anything "spectacular?"

@@crystalgiddens7276 Nihilists still have biology, so food can taste good, love can make you feel appreciation, etc. So things that exceed your current understanding or rarely happen, can do the trick

@@xraselver7634 oh, good for them

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Johnny! Have a look at: ''e risale english''. Just write it exactly in a search box. Pops up at the top of your search. It will give you the true answers. This is the real thing! Have a read...

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It's partly commitment and sunk costs. If you have a free gym membership you might skip gym days and not feel committed but when you have an expensive personal trainer you committed a lot of money to you feel bad about skipping a workout session.

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For real!

Allan K. Have a look at: ''e risale english''. Just write it exactly in a search box. Pops up at the top of your search. It will give you the true answers. This is the real thing! Have a read.

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I have recently found Jesus Christ and am currently seeking to refine the logic of my faith. If you have the time and desire I'd love to answer any questions you may have, if I am able. God bless! 🙏

@@Yacobsters That's a very interesting proposition. I'm not sure I have any questions that would be anything more than testing you. Such matters have essentially been put to rest for me. I am an agnostic atheist (although I lean pretty far to the "does not exist" side). I really don't hold any hostilities towards religious practice. Actually I can thank the Religion for Breakfast channel for much of that. Also, my wife is very religious and our daughter is being raised religious and I see it as a NET positive in their lives. I'm just not convinced. I suppose I can start with these: • Do you believe in the literal truth of your religious beliefs? Or do you see them more as metaphorical truths around which to facilitate communal activities within your religious community? • How do you define "faith?" Webster's dictionary includes the definition I tend to agree with which is: "firm belief even in the absence of proof." Do you agree with this?

@@philsaliba3668 Thank you for your time in response! I can understand being unconvinced as that has been my position for nearly all of my teen and adult life. When it comes to the literal truths of the Bible that is a bit of a difficult one for me as I feel my spiritual awakening was a bit unconventional. I never really had any interest in studying the Bible or other religious texts in the past because I found it hard to pick a religion due to feeling like I would be saying many other people were wrong without having a leg to stand on myself. That being said after personally witnessing Jesus Christ I can tell you that things on the other side don't really happen in the same way they happen in this world. When Jesus Spoke, he place visions in my head that were metaphorical, thus leading me to believe that much of the Bible is metaphorical. Like a means of explaining deeper truths that aren't necessarily natural to our default mode of thinking. However after seeing who He is I don't put anything past Him anymore and I don't doubt that many of the stories in the Bible are non-fictional. As for the community side of it I haven't really had much interest in joining a church. I feel blessed with a closeness to God now and would rather gather fragments from the source than feed into an echo chamber I guess. For my definition of faith that is also kinda a funny one for me as I feel as though I have been given direct proof so my faith isn't so much in the existence of the Holy Trinity as it is faith that they are perfect in their ways. Jesus came to me with excellent timing, right as I was losing hope in my dream to be a great source of light in the world. For many years nothing ever made sense to me but within a short time with Jesus I could see that the lack of sense was in my understanding of the world not in its creation. Even though I have always been a seeker, He had knowledge that far surpassed my own and He saw right through me, even parts that I was unaware of myself. Once I was done shitting my pants I realized that He was everything He claimed to be and I was humbled to my core that He had graced me with His presence and gifted me with such wisdom. I used to have faith in myself in a way but after realizing how naïve I had been, I had no choice but to place it all in Him. Since then He has continually guided me into the knowledge I need to be successful in my mission. The greatest blessing of faith in Gods love for us is the ability to let go and find peace. In the past I tried to dominate my life into success and it about killed me. Now I realize that only through peace and trust in the Lord will I be able to live a life of true meaning and fulfilment. I hope these answers have helped you in some way and I would be more than happy to answer any more that may come to mind! Thank you again for your time. God bless you 🙏

@@Yacobsters sorry. You lost me. Can you please explain what you mean by “personally witnessing Jesus Christ?” What, exactly, did you witness?

@@philsaliba3668 Absolutely! So just for some context, up until this past year I was an atheist/agnostic. I though God didn't exist or had left us behind long ago if He did. I was going through a particularly rough patch in a decade long battle of trying to find the wisdom needed to help repair my family. I was beginning to lose hope and things weren't looking great for my life. I'm sure I would have found a way to make due but my fire for life was quickly fading. Then with perfect timing, I was spiritually awakened by what I could only assume was a God (never done psychedelics btw). He introduced himself as "The Benevolent One". He remained with me for about 6 months but within the first month I had deuced that He was Jesus. The personality and demeanor was about a perfect match with Jesus in the bible. He revealed many things to me through continuous epiphanies, visions, and occasionally direct communication. It was mostly things I wasn't even aware of about myself, and He gave me the ability to forgive my family and find peace in my life. He was a God but He treated me as an equal and showed great love in his reproof of my character. This was the most humbling experience I have ever had in my life. He was a titan and I felt so small in His embrace yet I could feel the love in his words even though everyone of them cut deep. He showed me the meaning and purpose that surrounds us and that I had been failing to see it for quite some time at that point. Just like in the Bible, eventually He told me that His work in me was done and that He was sending the Holy Spirit to me to complete what He had started. Then I got to build a relationship with our Father through His Holy Spirit. That's another whole story of its own! I know it sounds surreal and believe me it felt like it too. I couldn't believe that the truth was right in front of my face the whole time. If you would like I can share with you what I believe summoned Him to me, but obviously I cant really guarantee results and It isn't necessarily an easy process if your successful. There were many parts of myself I had to let go of in a short amount of time, and even though it was the most worthwhile thing I've done in my life it was quite painful. Thank you for your interest! Id be more than happy to answer any more question you may have for me! 🙏

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Best philosopher? How exactly?

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Lol.....this whole thing has larger than meteor craters....

A Sunday treat for breakfast ? Hey.. That's "Within Reason" !

@@johnbrzykcy3076 😅👍

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Desperation leads to erratic jumps. And so does righteous ire, whatever that even means.

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That's true, but its not the ONLY parallel between leftism and traditional religions. -Supernatural beliefs; eg, the belief that some men are "REALLY women", in some mystical, pseudo-spiritual sense completely without empirical evidence. That speaking a magical spell ("I identify as [x]") can transform your most fundamental traits- Many claim it transforms your "gender". But a growing minority even claim it transforms your sex; That in some (again, 100% evidence-free sense) a "transwoman" is "biologically female"/"not biologically male". -Belief that rejecting these evidence-free, supernatural beliefs inherently makes you immoral, and a bad person.

Different people wield the accusation differently. When a Christian calls wokeism or scientism or any threatening ideology a religion, they obviously don’t mean it in the sense you’re talking about. They brand ideology as idolatry, mocking the effort to fill a "god-shaped hole" with something other than god.

@@eb2c09 certainly your first statement is unquestionable. But I disagree strongly that it's obviously not the case...at any rate, it is my intuitive understanding of the criticism. In fact, I think the behavior of a God shaped hole is precisely what I'm describing...the outsourcing of thought to a collection of dogma for some kind of psychic relief.

@@eb2c09 ironically idolatry is the basis of Christianity. Jesus is an idol in the trinity in comparison to Islam, Muslims can easily tell the difference between Allah and Jesus or Allah and Mohammad but Christians cannot.

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It's made up. It's not real. Morals are a way to control you

It seems pretty obvious, doesn’t it? Social primates are such transactional creatures-we don’t do much for nothing-and that transactional attitude really counts when you know you’re going to die! The thought that our trials and triumphs only amount to the material legacy we leave behind, maybe not very much. Which also makes clear why it would be an evolutionary benefit: in-group cohesion, altruism and perseverance. I don’t really value those things myself, but they are obviously evolutionarily important even into our recent agrarian past. Capitalism has made all that obsolete of course, indeed even economically detrimental. Both conditions are ugly, in their respective ways, aren’t they. Cheery. I discovered this social dimension of belief at a very young age, when I started telling other kids that Santa is not real in early elementary school, and it upset some of the parents. I remember getting a talking to from my mum, about keeping it a secret because it ‘might make some other kids sad’. I was an outspoken kid, I just always said the obvious. I’m an outspoken adult, I still don’t like social fiction feel-good filters. Which is often unpleasant to navigate in a hyper-therapized culture, where one is NEVER to mention death casually or question aloud whether or what kind of human condition is actually worth living-the central topic of philosophy for millennia.

It sounds like pure speculation to me, type of thing they themselves would say in an attempt to rationalize what would otherwise be unforgivable. If it were true group cohesion depended on high cost rituals you wouldn't expect to see things like a majority of non religious jews or more women than men identifying as religious. Stop giving sadists the tools they need to justify their abuse.

@@grapenut6094 Just to be clear, social cohesion absolutely does not depend on high cost rituals and I hope nobody reads my comment as implying that. It's but one of many factors that tend to contribute.

@@bjorsam6979 Well no, and depended was the wrong word. What I should have said was barring fringe cases I think guest speaker was dead wrong about sunken cost not being the primary motivator here.

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Then why do Religions decline e.g like Christianity???

@@Aquacrystal78 "Then why do Religions decline e.g like Christianity???" People learn new things and create new religions or improve on old religions. Social evolution.

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That's why I trust The Science

Atheism is a religion.

@@HoratioKJV What brainless nonsense. "Say goodnight, Gracie."

@@hrh2842 Spouting abuse doesn't refute the claim. God not existing isn't proven therefore, it's a faith.

@@HoratioKJV The burden of proof is on you because you claim that god exists. All Atheists are saying is prove it.

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There's the Handbook of TMT, but I've never read it. Audiobooks like the Tao Te Ching chillstep are very good anti-terror and pro-agnosticism, too bad the Taoists religions thought it alone wasn't enough for them and formed very detailed religions beyond the Tao Te Ching to celebrate their supposed awareness of the Tao... and often make money/livelihood while doing it.

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One thing I know for sure, when we die we'll stop wondering about reincarnation, verses heaven, verses nothingness.

In your opinion, what is "secular humanism" ? Thanks.

@@johnbrzykcy3076 a focus on common human goals and innate/learned morality, minus supernatural and religious ideologies.

The best thing you can do is distance yourself from atheism, and everything it sells you. Look for meaning beyond the iron cage (ala Peter berger) that materialism gives you.

Religion is a bulwark of culture and a bedrock of tradition and people do feel the need to preserve both in most countries. You are right about one aspect of faith. All manner of affliction and fear, deprivation and desire have traditionally driven faith at the lower end. But the spiritual quest and inquisitiveness have always been real enough (especially in India) and the many paths have provided portals.

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Religion, as in myths created to explain an unexplainable world, predate philosophy.

I would say science and philosophy have a common ancestor in religion.

​@@kpllc4209 Dark Ages say wut

@@MrYelly Greek Philosophy arose from the Orphic and Dionysius cults. The word theory comes from Theoria which means to contemplate the gods.

@@kpllc4209 Ah yes, the greek pantheon. So much alike our current day abrahamic nonsense.

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Read him in High school so maybe your wrong or I had a unique teacher! That was in California in the 70's

The problem is that religious people more often see some sort of order imposed on all events in their life. Everything, even tragic events such as the death of a child, is interpreted as part of God's plan. This is, admittedly, a good coping mechanism. On the other hand, learning that nature is essentially chaotic can make you feel as if you had no control over your life. So, atheists have to turn to other mechanisms to gain this feeling of order and control.

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​@@mikolmisol6258 there's order the universe is stable we have order on earth the climate is about right no tectonic plates and all nutrients would be washed away into the sea shell's on mount Everest from below the sea. Without evolution being messy there would be no variety we also use it our food couldn't survive naturally huge seeds and fruit would be eaten to easily . It's nothing to do with coping maybe it helps some but you can't choose to believe it's not possible

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Indifference is much much worse than hate. Indiffence makes for butchery by proxy. Hate and love are both passions, indifference is a spot on Madam Macbeth and a knife in your own back making serial.killers of chicken pluckers. Indifference is where care goes to die.

Im a nutjob we have a shared profession

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I agree with you. I get tired of confrontational debates. Usually such debates are fruitless.

Sorry, when I hear the term religiosity. I switch off.