I think it's entirely possible that Benjen will return similarly to how he did in the show, reappearing to help Bran get back to Winterfell, but it WON'T be as Coldhands. I think Benjen has been in the Lands Of Always Winter, learning more about the Others. G.R.R. Martin did say that we'd go farther north than ever before, and Benjen could be the key to that.
That with the fact that he knows so much, he is a true Stark, and the connections they have with the Children of the forest it’s not a bad theory you have!
I find it hilarious and sad that people like you, who make this comment in every asoiaf-related RU-vid video, still seek out and watch asoiaf-related content. Like, if I thought a series would never be completed I would move on with my life, not sulk constantly in the comments section of RU-vid videos. Says a lot about you.
I really like the idea that Benjen knew of Rhaegar and Lyanna. I’ve seen this theory before with the added caveat that Benjen told Ned when he returned to Winterfell after the war. Ned and Ben then jointly decided he would take the black for his guilt and for repentance/justice.
That was my thought too. Ned was so super honorable it makes more sense that he pushed Benjen into the night's watch than it does for Benjen to just decide to go off on his own. The Starks were weak at that point, Ned wouldn't have just let him go until he had more children of his own unless his honor demanded his brother pay for something he did aka it was a sentence agreed upon between the two of them.
My guess is that Benjen is gone and will never be found and it is supposed to frustrate us. That happens a lot in our world. People just vanish and no trace is ever found. It sucks for their loved ones. It sucks for them. It sucks. Life sucks sometimes.
Reminds me of the little girl who was named Weasel who as with Hot Pie, Lommy, Gendry, and Arya in the second book after Yoren died. I felt so bad for her because the lady she was originally with had died, which can be assumed was her mother/guardian. Weasel bolted into the woods when Lannister troops came to arrest the group, never to be heard from or seen again by any POV characters. I have a feeling that since she was less than like 4 years old, she might've gotten nabbed by some wolves.
that is 100% not martins style of writing, even someone who read only the first few books should know this by now... youre literally just projecting your trauma.
I posted a few days ago on the asoiaf subreddit about my theory on Benjen. I believe the others kidnapped him, marched on the fist for the horn (Benjen probably buried it there, Jon comments on the recent burial) after he told them where he had hid it. All of this started ramping up right when betrayal was hitting the starks the hardest. The march on the fist was right around the same time Bran and Rickon fled winterfell too. A Stark must always be in Winterfell... I think the others are marching south to install the rightful Stark heir in Winterfell. I think there was a pact. If the only truth from The Nights King tale is that a Stark was sacrificing his children to the others (or the great other) that could mean that most of the actual others we hear of in the books, have stark blood. We know they're magical, they probably have foresight. Saw the betrayals coming and started acting early. Only beginning to march once there was no stark in winterfell. In a sense, the 'others' called their banners to help their Southern family. George has said Ice is vengeance. The Starks named their family sword Ice. A stark has been in winterfell for 8000 years, since "they" came last. 'Winter is coming' could be an explicit threat to House Starks enemies. The 'others' are House Starks revenge. Maybe the Starks were LITERALLY Kings of Winter and even 'they' acknowledged it. That's just my theory though. lol
b-but muh theory is b-better, Benjen is just dead in the north and we will never see him again despite that being contradictory to grr's style of writing1!!!!111!!!! (sarcasm)
I think that Benjen was either killed by the Others who turned his companions into wights OR he's been kept as a hostage in the Lands of Always Winter cause the Others are searching for a Stark, but a special one: Jon Snow. (I actually think the first option is more posible cause if they were waiting for ANY Stark they'd never had atacked the Fist cause they already had what they wanted) The Others atacked Waymar who looked like a Stark and just a couple of nights after the NW left Craster's house they went directly to where Craster told them a probable Stark will be(Fist of the First Men), just that no one, nor Craster nor the Others knew that Qhorin had taken Jon with him. Craster is spying for the Others in their search for THAT special Stark, he immediately recognized Jon as a Stark just with a look and he also told he saw Waymar on his way to where he was killed.
I think Benjen going to the wall was likely at Ned’s order once Ned got home with Jon and found out Benjen knew all along. Ned and the realm lost so much due to Benjen not speaking up, I’m sure while he understood and did not hold it against Benjen (given their relationship later) but honor would have compelled Ned to punish Benjen.
So Ned can agree to keep a secret for Lyanna, but would condemn Benjen for it? I like the theory of him choosing the wall out of guilt. I don't think Robert would have believed him or anyone else saying it so do not think the war could have been prevented at that point if Benjen spoke up
I agree with this. I think Ned sent him. Nothing else makes sense when the Starks were so weak at that point. "Guilt" wouldn't have been enough when the Starks were in danger of dying out. Maybe once Ned had more heirs it would make sense. But prior to that? It was an honor thing.
Benjen became another servant of the 3 Eyed Crow like Coldhands only his new name is Hardnipples. I was going to say Frozefeet but Hardnipples is funnier. Great video as always CC!
I think it's reasonable for Rhaegar and Lyanna to have figured that, even though there may be some sort of consequence from offending the honor of important nobles, it probably wouldn't be so bad as to escalate to the the point of all out rebellion in a war to overturn the throne. The fact that the entirety of the seven kingdoms went to war was really a consequence of Aerys being a murderous psychopath.
Exactly. If he wanted us to forget him, if he was just a motivation for Jon's arc, Martin would have stopped mentioning him so much. He clearly wants to remind us that Benjen still exists and characters care about him.
I have a theory for you. It is assumed that Bran is the Winged Wolf because it was Jojun Reeds dream and Jojun identifies Bran as such. But what if the Winged Wolf is Jon? The wolf with dragon wings, combining two magical bloodlines. He will be spending days (or even weeks, because the cold preserves according to Maester Aemon) warged into Ghost and will be resurrected with fire and blood thus awakening the latent magic in his blood from both sides of his family.
Small detail may be wrong but i believe the laughing knight beat the knights that the bullies squiresd for and she demanded that they punish the squires instead of forfeit their horse and armour and they happily complied as they wanted to keep their stuff
I think he was killed, Others tried to Wight him but his Stark blood (with ancient link to Other's blood) resisted. Now, he's like Coldhands. Half-Wight.
I always wondered about The Horn of Winter, or Joramun's Horn. Where does everyone, including book characters, get the idea that it can bring down the Wall? In the story, it just says, "And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth". So, where does it say, "oh, it'll knock down the Wall too!!!"
I think when little finger left the Erie after healing, he ran into Lyanna & Rhaegar. I think she trusted LF bc she didn’t know what had transpired prior with Brandon to tell them she wasn’t kidnapped. But to LF true fashion, he rode home first and wrote a letter to Cat -the letter she burned. He waited long enough for Brandon to lose his shit hoping he would die & he would have a chance with Cat.
I could see this because LF has been playing the game for a while now and he’s damn good at it honestly. Before the random LF death because of psychic cripple plot armor…yea season 7 🤦🏾♂️
I just found your channel, and I love these predictions. You have some different thoughts that I find wildly refreshing; you have also revitalized my love of ASOIAF theory crafting. Thank you for your good work. Hope to see more soon.
I agree with the take that guilt likely brought Benjen to the wall. I also think there was an additional motive, though: with him being someone who likely knew or suspected Jon's parentage, perhaps Ned and Benjen discussed convincing Jon to join the watch after he had grown up (starks/stark bastards/bastards of great houses have been known to), and Benjen would be there to look after or help elevate Jon within the order. Perhaps the brothers had even discussed Benjen being the one to reveal Jon's true identity to him after saying the vows.
We will get a resolution to Benjen I am absolutely certain of it and I believe the answer will bring some new information with a massive effect on the story with it.
There was likely a "Promise me, Benjen" moment around the secret he kept. He's not Ned, but he probably felt compelled to keep that promise because..you know..."honor". My 2c.
Anytime you read "Well speak soon, or when I return" you know they are gonna die or disappear 😂. I'm still waiting on Ned to end up at the wall to tell John about his parentage
It looks like Benjen found or looking for something and he wasn't just lost, the thing is that I really cannot pinpoint what exactly. He was also searching for Waymar and this is where am gonna put my tinfoil hat on but the Other Waymar fought looked like he didn't try to kill him from the start, for some reason, and Waymar sure looked a lot like a Stark and it makes me believe that the Others are looking for a Stark. Ok, hats off.
This^^^ I also think than Benjen was either killed by the Others who turned his companions into wights OR he's been kept as a hostage in the Lands of Always Winter cause the Others are searching for a Stark, but a special one: Jon Snow. (I actually think the first option is more posible cause if they were waiting for ANY Stark they'd never had atacked the Fist cause they already had what they wanted) The Others atacked Waymar who looked like a Stark and just a couple of nights after the NW left Craster's house they went directly to where Craster told them a probable Stark will be(Fist of the First Men), just that no one, nor Craster nor the Others knew that Qhorin had taken Jon with him. Craster is spying for the Others in their search for THAT special Stark, he immediately recognized Jon as a Stark just with a look and he also told he saw Waymar on his way to where he was killed.
Lol why does waymar look like a stark? Grey eyes? Plenty of people have grey eyes. He is also described as handsome and starks are notoriously horse faced like arya and that's why sansa when first meeting the waynewoods doesn't think they are handsome. Because they are descendants of starks and got their horse faces lol.
@@BenJover This isn't true. Lyanna was considered pretty, Brandon too, Jon is told constantly that he is prettier than a girl, so no this is straight up wrong. Arya is a girl close to 9-10 so in her fully awkward phase, so she was called horse face, we do not know how she is gonna be when she grows up. Waymar, had dark hair, grey eyes, was slender and a member of the black brothers, so the similarities with a Stark are more than just the eyes.
@@CompanyOfTheCat It's canonical that grrm equates "the stark look" with being horse faced and that's why there are the off handed comments by cat that the waynewoods are closest kin to robb to be his heir and then when we see them they have horse faces. Jon is said over and over to look just like ned and arya is said to have inherited her looks from her father while sansa got her pretty face and red hair from her mother.
@@BenJover Long face, doesn't mean ugly though. Jon is very Stark and looks like Arya & Ned, and many people find him handsome and attractive. Ygritte, Val, Alys, and Edd are only some of them. ( Edit: Actually most non-family females are very much attracted to him and if the shadow in Danys vision is indeed Jon, he is described as comely.) And Waymar had the exact same description as Jon or a description that someone would expect from a Stark on the wall. Slender, graceful, with better clothes and equipment than most, so a lord or something similar, and with grey eyes. Also, he was leading the team.
Benjen may have just deserted the NW. He's a dandy dressing much more nicely than the rest of the NW. He's probably living it up in Bravos waiting for Arya to discover him.
I think George doesn't know, doesn't care, wrote Benjen as a motivation for Jon to head to the wall and then wrote him out of the story rather than deal with hard to answer questions. The alternative is that he's become "The Great Walrus" but Jon's so thickheaded he doesn't recognize him.
Idk he keeps mentioning Benjen, like he doesn't want us to forget he's lost and that everyone else remembers him too. Atleast till a storm of swords, that's how far I have read. I think if you want a reader to forget a character, you stop mentioning them.
@ijustluvmileycyrus In the video there's a quote from a Jon chapter saying how much he misses Benjen, and that quote is from ADWD, so even in his latest book George is reminding everyone "Hey, remember Benjen? The first ranger? The one that went missing and hasn't been confirmed dead unlike all the others who went with him? Just pointing out he still exists, and that Jon, the guy on the wall whose plot is tied to the others, who if Benjen were alive somehow, would be the first person Benjen would bump into after say, gathering info on said Others from beyond the wall on the lands of always winter, still remembers him and would have a very emotional reunion if Benjen ever came back, just saying, not giving any hints or anything I'm just pointing it out", so yeah, seeing as George loves to remind reader of characters that later become important through people thinking about them over and over (Rhaegar, Lyanna, Howland Reed, Euron before he comes back from his exile, the brotherhood without banners before they're introduced and before their leadership slot is taken over by a certain dead character, Tysha over and over before the reveal and then even more after etc) it would seem odd to keep reminding us of Benjen seeing as he doesn't remind us of say, Rickards wife, or random Nights Watch member 185 every one or so times in a book
Sometimes people leave, and just die. The world doesn't care if they got to say any goodbyes, or have a cool pov death. Sometimes things happen and you'll never get the resolution you want.
Is there any chance Benjen is at Hardhome? Maybe posing as one of the Free Folk or recently captured? Maybe he went there after learning whatever he intended to learn in the Far North? Maybe that's where he'll reenter the story. Or... *Unlikely tinfoil theory*: We learned fron Arya that slaver ships took people from Hardhome. One of those ships was siezed in Braavos. What if Benjen was taken in one of those ships and reenters the story through Arya's POV? OR, (even more tinfoily) we know that was one of 3 ships, the others are who knows where. What if the ships were going to Slaver's Bay and Benjen reenters the story through Tyrion or Dany? These last two ideas require A LOT of assumptions, I know. Just a fun thought lol.
It wouldn’t surprise me if he was alive in some kind of cold hands kind of state. And knows that he can’t really just rock up at the wall in that kind of state, but that he is doing reconnaissance. There are really only two people who can move the story along in terms of who the others are and what they want. Bran, which relies on him being able to tell everybody else what is going on. Or if Benjin turns up at the wall and is able to explain, not unless we are never meant to get that kind of detail about the others
Benjen Stark has linked up with Stonesnake and they're both currently venturing ultra-north into the Land of Always Winter on a recon mission. They will discover proof of an imminent Other invasion during which they are detected and must make their way back to Westeros to warn everyone of the coming Long Night. This will result in the duo fulfilling the Last Hero prophecy.
I think it’s possible Benjen was the Laughing Tree Knight. The armor didn’t fit well bc he was only 14. The mad king wanted the mysterious night captured & brought to him. If he sent Rhaegar, & he discovered Benjen & Lyanna Stark, he may have become smitten by her. However, Rhaegars father had commanded him to find the Laughing Tree knight. Rhaegar knew what his father would do to Benjen. Perhaps to be sure the lady king would never hear of this, Rhaegar strongly suggested Benjen take The Black. One he’d become a Brother of The Knights Watch, King Aerys couldn’t touch him. Lyanna would never be suspected. Rhaegar knew this, & he knew she would never betray her brother. They formed a bond over this, that blossomed into more over time. I don’t think Benjen knew of their attachment or marriage. Benjen would’ve never lied to Ned, leaving Ned to think Lyanna was raped. Leading to his father & older brother’s murders by the Mad King, & ultimately war. There’s nothing to suggest he was that kind of person. Edit. That’s my best guess.
George's didn't fully realized the night watch in the first book (I think) because it doesn't make sense why a night watch ranger is spending so much time south of the wall that it was enough for his nephews to bond with him.
Coldhands-> I am your monster, Brandon Stark, -> In front of the Winterfell Weirwood -> Brandon could taste the blood through times. I am only parafrasing, but I hope, it is understandable. But which Brandon Stark is Coldhands then? I don’t know.
Maybe he might come back when Jon is resurrected after they have defeated the Bolton's. And if he doesnt maybe when the Long Night comes and during the battle Jon, Arya, Sansa or Bran maybe even someone who knows how he looks like finds out hes a wight and they put him down. Benjen is mainly alone at the wall so he would be the Lone wolf and the stark saying comes into play where "The Lone wolf dies but the pack survives" and Jon is fighting whoever maybe the others or something and hes losing the battle and Benjen comes in at the last moment to stop them and gets mortally wounded but gives jon time to finish the fight and dies later.
Yea it's obvious George had to get rid of him cuz he knew too much about Roberts rebellion and Lyanna and everything else along those lines so he may be the one later to confirm some of these things. Not only that but he needed to be outta the way to let Jon climb naturally in the nights watch. Lots of reasons He literally was gotten rid of immediately when jon got to the wall.
I suspect that Benjen has been in contact with mance, since before the feast at Winterfell, or maybe it was at the feast that they began colluding. Maybe the cache of dragonglass was left for mance.
Is how Benjen being alive as Coldhands now a precussor to Jon Snow coming back as a weird undead with his will still intact. Rather the whole warging into Ghost to keep living.
I have always had a bad feeling about what Osha said-that she killed a crow. Pretty casually and only 1 time mention. IF Benjen is dead, I am pretty sure Osha killed him. Otherwise, he is off doing something in the name of The Watch. Like mapping out caves, maybe? ONE person that should be noted-Barbrey Dustin. She tells Theon that her father was DESPERATE to marry her to ANY Stark that rode by-but she NEVER mentions Benjen Stark. It's like he was never born. Keeping in mind that Ned stopped at Barbrey's place after he goes to Starfall....craaaaaazy. Barbrey prolly knows who Jon really is. And she prolly knows why Benjen really joined The Watch. There is a reason Barbrey doesn't remarry-and she is not being honest with Theon. The fun part is that she is not lying, either. She witholds what she can and twists the truth into looking like something else entirely. Benjen joins The Watch instead of marrying Barbrey. Why? Why wasn't Barbrey ever an option for Benjen? Why did Ned REALLY go to Barbrey? It was not just to return a horse, especially without her husband's body. I am not so sure Lord Dustin died at the ToJ. Anyways, after Ned sees Barbrey, Benjen joins The Watch. THAT is WEIRD.
GRRM didn't debunk Benjin exactly. I'd be curious to see more of this editor messages stuff, and if he holds it all close to his chest or if he lets him know the future plots.
Benjen is almost certainly dead, and I don’t think we will ever see him again. That said, I love the idea that he will renter the story from the grey waste and meet Dany or something. That will near certainly never happen (because it doesn’t make much sense.), but man would it be cool.
I like to think he does. I am currently rereading the books and this is one of the notes I am looking for! It could be very cool for these four arrowheads to save their traveling party and give some more characters information on the weakness of The Others.
As much as I would absolutely love it, if it was revealed he was just surviving in the Far North woods, this whole time as a Rambo/Arnold at the end of Predator style one man army, or is Coldhands, or hell, is somehow even Daario (a theory, I'll admit, I was guilty of unironically supporting back in the day) or is hanging around the Frost Fangs, I think the most likely answers for Benjens fate is......he either is a Wight or really is just dead with his frozen body rooting as a human popsicle somewhere beyond the wall.
I know they showed Lyanna&Rhaegar on the show getting married ..In a place that looked like it could be the Isle of faces. But this past month they've released a calender which has one piece of Them BOTH of The "isle of faces " So yeah i thinkl its a matter of time till we find out they WERE MARRIEDA and will then be cannon
Roberts rebellion was built on lies and he knew that it was his jealousy and pride that got thousands of people killed, the should have made a show about that. Benjen stark and Ned knew all along that was brilliant story telling and sad ..
Nope it was rheager and aeryd you know the guy who kidnapped lord Starks daughter then when they wanted justice aeryd killed him and Eddards brother then wanted the heads of Ned and Robert cope harder
I'm almost certain Benjen is dead, and Coldhands is someone warged into his corpse, maybe the Warg King, it'll be one of the things that makes Bran realize Bloodraven isn't a good guy.
Ya know… for years I’ve heard that statement, or theory or whatever ya wanna call it that Varys told the Mad King that Rhaegar was plotting with the other great lords to make himself king. Varys “always did what’s best for the realm” correct? Well even Tywin knew Rhaegar was the best thing for the whole damn 7 kingdoms. So I don’t believe that horseshit that Varys whispered in Aerys ear about the tournament.
Rhaegar marrying Lyanna makes no sense. It would piss off Dorne, and from a storytelling perspective it would be pointless. Jon Snow is legitimised by Robb. He doesn't need to be trueborn.
It would definitely piss off Dorne, just like not crowning Elia the Queen of Love and Beauty, but I doubt Rhaegar really cared at that point how Dorne would feel. He seemed pretty selfish and lost in the sauce. And I agree, I doubt the marriage occurred and Robb’s will should be enough, but the theory exists so I put it in the video is all.
@@CrusaderChris The Dornish are extremely liberal when it comes to sex. I don't get why so many people think they would have a problem with the relationship between Rhaegar and Lyanna.
Because it lowers their status and perception. Elia being the sole queen of Westeros is good for Dorne. Elia sharing the role of Queen with Lyanna Stark is a slight against Dorne. They’re casual about sex, but a royal marriage is a way bigger deal. If Rhaegar didn’t die, and simply kept Lyanna as a consensual paramour, then I’d agree the Martells likely wouldn’t care. The whole situation embarrasses Elia and Dorne, though.
@Roderic Kingfield Sex is one thing, annulling your marriage and running off to marry another woman who was betrothed because your wife couldn't give you a third child is another. Dorne also had been fighting the Targaryens for years so political marriages were a way to mend the fissures. Rhaegar disgraces Elia for a prophecy that has been passed down from word of mouth for centuries, sounds like a great reason to rekindle Dorne's hatred.
I think ColdHands could be ome of the Deserters from the days of the 79 sentinels.. Maybe 80 Nights watch brothers deserted not the 79 they acrually caught....Definitely not Benjen...They said by not saying.."HES OLD AS FUCK"""
And have to mention this if Robb and ned should die before the other children were born Jon would be legitimatized as a Stark and become the lord of winter fell at 16. Since bastards are usually given a true born name and the seat if all true born heirs are dead. And Catelyn would be sent back to riverun
Aegon the conqueror had two wives and befriended the faith of the seven high septon to give an exception to the crown, so John would be legitimate in the law. Saw this in saw theory video .but the guy did quote from the text, so I assume is legit
