Where is the Divine Feminine? | Rafe Kelley & Jonathan Pageau 

The heart rests behind the rib cage. It is infinitely more essential to the body than the ribs. Everyone shudders at the idea of “open heart surgery” for we know that of all the organs, that one needs the ultimate protection. The feminine is the heart. The heart of the home, the heart of the Church, the heart of the marriage and the family. Her hidden aspect is essential to her function and her blessing as life giver.

Dancing in the shadows and moonlight, tending the hearth, consoling the lonely, baring the wreath and the wrath.

utterly, thoroughly riveting. And now I'm shutting up.

That "love the monster into peace" trope is also in Stranger Things between 11 and Vecna, in Rise of Skywalker with Rey and Kylo. Padme tries with Anakin but is unsuccessful in her lifetime. I see my own story as one of having to overcome being masculine and softening into womanhood. Like Rey in Star Wars, I was abandoned as a kid and had to learn how to feed, comfort, clothes, house, educate, and provide for myself. I grew up to be a fighter and a survivor with little room to be still and feminine. After repeated encounters with Christ, however I am learning to trust him as Father/Brother/Friend/Husband, which in turn is allowing me to begin to develop into a more divine feminine role in my life and relationships. I've been given many beasts to love and point toward God. Other women have punished me for wasting my time on them, but I know in my heart that I've saved the lives of several suffering men who would have given up had I not shown them love and compassion. By making space for them to grieve, and given of myself in the process - life was preserved and protected.

In Jewish and Christian belief, it is the people of God who are the spouse of God. In orthodox Christianity one might say that the church is the feminine that is being divinized, that is, being brought into the life of God, to participate in the life of God.

Women are the mothers of all gods and all men. But only one could be the mother of God. She is also the mother of all women and men, sons and daughters of God in the Holy spiritual sense. She was the one that led me to her son who took me to God so I could know the truth. There is no worldly way to thank her for being there to show me her son. But she knows how I feel. 🙏🔥❤️

This is fascinating!!

The feminist critique of Christianity, like all materialist critiques, looks only at the surface and assumes that's all there is. But in Christianity the feminine isn't only represented by women (another mistake of feminism and materialist critique in general) or by water. The feminine is the attitude we take toward Christ, the Bridegroom. We are the bride! Each of us, whether male or female, must take a feminine approach, must be open and receptive to the voice of God. Recepetivity is a large part of what the feminine is.

Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity both have a strong complimentary of the masculine and feminine. Unfortunately, many Protestants have stripped this out of their version of Christianity.

18:45 big big big wisdom here

11:25-11:40 Feminine aspect of the heroic: "Be it done unto me according to Thy word" Luke 1:38

I recently listened to a long story in the SCP canon, one of the proposals for SCP-001, the story of Amoni-Ram. I don't want to spoil too hard, but *that* was a story of the emperor *AND* the empress returning (there is a key strong male character and a strong, *notably obedient* female character). It's one of those stories that generated bottom up from our society through this independent, shared creative commons universe (it's nobody's IP, Disney couldn't just go buy it) and the telling on the channel "The Exploring Series" has 263K views as of right now (uploaded 4 weeks ago). I think, just leave some indie writers alone for long enough without big hollywood money and they will re-tell missing stories.

16:48 I feel like this makes the point very well.

Even in Hallmark Channel mystery movies, it’s always the feminine character that has to save the day and show up the man. I am a woman and I find that very annoying. One of the lectures I give us on Men, women and work In ancient Israel, and I try to show that work is essentially cooperative, where everyone contributes economically. I believe this was an essential part of most societies up until the industrial age.

I never knew wolverine was so well spoken

I used to read books where it was obvious that the female characters were the ones that controlled the show. Mostly, in all parties they were the organizers in all new friendships they were the ones to introduce them and it was clear to me that even if they didn't have the right to vote they were clearly the only ones who could. I could just see it in stories laden but never heard anyone say anything about it and so none of my classmates seemed to pick up on it. So now I think I understand why it was so intentionally hidden.

I stumbled about the same thing! the femine mystery is not sufficiently contained in "Beauty and the Biest". Peterson forgot about Demeter - I looked it up, Erich Neumann explicitly mentioned it in the great mother as the femine myth. Edit: So the feminine has to rescue her daughter (while the masculine has to rescue the father). Someone should make videos about that...:)

16:26 This is a possibility for why in my project to memorized the first two books of the stoic Marcus Aurelius' Meditations, I found only briefly mentions his female role models such as "My mother, her reverence for the divine, her generosity, her inability not only to do wrong but even to conceive of doing it."

Fun fact: in swedish the word for sheath is "slida" which is the exact same word that we use for vagina

Mohana placed the seed in the womb of the mother. That would be the inversion I think.

For me JBP explains that the man builds hierarchy and the woman chooses. That is why God is male. We humans are the woman and will we choose the good man or the idols.

What does he mean when he says that "we have to stop pretending like we're standing outside of this, that we're standing inside"?

So sophiology is the textbook definition of "you're right, but you shouldn't say it"

Arghh....at 9:30-9:31......Jonathan I was hoping you'd say WOMB. I literally shouted "IT'S A WOMB" at the screen. In the Orthodox Tradition, we call the Mother of God, Mary, "She who is more spacious than the heavens".

Hey you should see or analyse the feminine figures of Star wars, for example Ahsoka, I think she is very well represented as feminine being heroic, she is a warrior, charm, wise and strong. Also Hera Syndulla, I personally think she is the best mother ever fully represented in all cinematographic history, for me she is. Hoping to see your points about it 😊

I do feel "the nameless part" of the divine (feminine part?) can be much better accessed in the eastern traditions (Hinduism, Buddhism, maybe Taoism) than in Christianity. In the Eastern traditions, the pathway to the nameless is rooted not in giving it a name, but in experiencing it through meditation, experiencing it without words. The experience itself gives a person all the understanding of the nameless they need, if done right. With "the name-giving part" (masculine part?) so well explained in the Christian tradition, the two parts seem to form a balanced whole, from my experience. I hope this makes sense to anyone :D

The Legend of Zelda series gets the balance right. The Princess holds the personification of chaos while the Hero delivers the final blow with the Master Sword (Master's Word).

I didn’t want that power. People chose power when they’ve given up on love.

This kind of hiddeness you talk about reminds me of the bene geserit in dune

RIP.

Rafe kelley looks like the guy you would see greek sculptures and the guy who spreads the words of christ in 20 ad jerusalem

I say the feminine is given for granted, people are more interested in discovering the father. Even in human terms, before DNA was discovered you couldn't prove who the father was, while the mother was given for granted. In the same way we give for granted that the universe exists, that nature works, and these were associated with feminine deities. What we want to discover is what started life, what started the universe, so it's like the search of the father. Also Jesus always talked about his father.

Rafe needs to read The Black Virgin by Jean Hani

Idk, I feel like the mysteriousness is even more realistically explained through the realization that the bible predicates its experience with the divine upon the revelations of men. When you have a narrative in which women's autonomy and influence over their own spirituality is explicitly oppressed, the framework itself is going to necessarily be vastly insufficient in regards to comprehending the nature of the experience of women with the self and their relation to the divine. To my knowledge, Mary's revelations are never expressed outside of the context of her relevance to Christ or the narrative about him. There is no logos regarding the mystical experiences of women within the text. It would cool if that were the contrary, or if another story like Moana was actually manifested within the text. Women are fully capable of reasoning through their own unique experiences and it baffles me that you can all just accept the idea that it's ultimately incomprehensible while adhering to a framework that cultivates purpose within their existence almost entirely out of their servitude, submission, or relevance towards or men. It would seem their most noble action is to choose to follow and I find that rather difficult to explain outside of the context of the patriarchal dominance over women that makes itself so anthropologically common. I don't want to have to bring the creation narrative into this on top of it all but practically all of the symbolism regarding women substantiates them as necessary, but ultimately lower than men on the hierarchy of values.

The shikainah (probably spelled that wrong) was seen as the feminine aspect of God. The kabbalists put in the sphear of binah, and christian cabala puts mary and the holy spirit in this sphear. Which would make perfect sense as she is the spouse of the holy spirit. She is God's wife ("consort") and mother. The queen of heaven. Giving her a unique place in christendom.

Moana is the best. All characters are flawed in realistic ways, and all learn and grow together. It's the most christian story I saw in a kids movie, that wasn't just explicilty christian.

Ironically it seems this guy refuses to take an open recepetive (feminine) attitude toward Jonathan's answers, he just waits and then asserts his next theory, which is a very masculine approach. He also seems to see symbolism very materially, as if women are pure feminine and men are pure masculine. Everyone contains both masculine and feminine traits, in many ways, and everyone can be at times feminine or masculine in our behavior. Listening and recieving are very feminine acts, asserting and advancing are very masculine.

You can make music and possible visuals for it. Keeping it in more inherently abstract expressions.

15:52

The church is the bride and is "being prepared" and God's mother is love but where is the feminine heroic? Strong single females? Too bad they can't come into the spotlight and be named.

12:10 with all due respect, this take is just incorrect. Moana is in every way a subversion of the feminine and an inversion of the masculine. The monster in Moana is not a dragon at all. It is the toxic feminine. You see it in Jadis in Narnia, the Matrix itself, the Borg in Star Trek, etc.

The idea of the Trinity might itself be feminine.

In Catholic church we have Marie. She is the incarnation of the perfection. She is above Jesus because she is just human, but she didn't sin in her hole life without being God. She is perfection as human being.

Jesus was male, was a man, and was raised from the dead in the body of a man. We need to see gender as a fundamental characteristic of what people are and who God is. Image is a physical thing, there is no evidence to think otherwise, it is used in a similar way throughout the Bible. The man is not without the woman and the woman not without the man in the Lord. 1 Corinthians 11: 7, 11 Jesus was born of a woman and is the exemplar for all people and the divine woman is talked about in Revelation 12: 1.

men lead women. women lead children. It's not hard.

The Dao that can be named is not the Dao BECAUSE the Dao is inextricably feminine and resists naming.

God is not masculine plus feminine. There is no "divine feminine". That is an invention of religions which oppose the true religion of the Old and New Testament Scriptures. The alleged divine "consort" of Yahweh was the product of the idolatry which Yahweh condemned (see the OT Scriptures). The Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Paraclete) are spoken of in Scripture in male/masculine terms in a way accommodated to our understanding. The male human being was created first (Adam/Ish) and was himself the representative of God, His image and authority, reflecting God's glory. The female human being, woman, was taken out of the man and derived her glory in the image of God from the man. It is anti-Biblical esoteric and occult religions which promote the idolatry of a "divine feminine" and encourage the heresy of a division in God into male and female. Male and female/ masculine and feminine are characteristics of creatures, not of God. The feminine is therefore creaturely, not "divine".

The world is cringe

Does just seem like you are overreaching. Saying stuff like 'getting a medal is inherently masculine' is the exact sort of thing that will go over like a lead balloon. Not tryna throw fire but seems you are being really arrogant and unwilling to move beyond the failures of the past. There is no reason women can't be in the spotlight or dominant. And Rafe is right, that groups that don't show the feminine will just fizzle out.

What's so special about Mary anyway? Why was she chosen out of all other women? Makes no sense to me, it's so arbitrary to call her the throne and center of femininity.

this guy........

There is no 'divine' feminine or masculine.

The divine feminine becomes apparent when the order of god is restored. God over man, man over woman, woman over children.

This guy seems to blame a deeply seeded contemporary cultural problem on a convenient straw man version of "Christianity" to make the world fit his experience. Same problem that causes people to discount logos in the first place...

Yea he was def raised by prots I knew the answer was Mary he was yapping away. How it wasn’t obvious to him is thanks to Protestant nonsense