Where The Horde Went Wrong 

Thank you all for watching! What do you think the future has in store for the Horde? What's an aspect to the red faction that you just can't go without? Let me know!

I’ve always loved that The Horde is a motley crew of mostly barbaric races trying to band together to survive and thrive. The Alliance have always felt too rigid and holier than thou. I’ve always saw the Horde as anti-heroes, but never “evil”.

Bro you got flair for this youtube thing. Can't wait to watch your channel grow!

So I joined the Horde for a multitude of reasons: - My first experience with the Warcraft universe was playing Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness on my dad's PC. I loved that game, and I loved the Orcs in that game, especially the cute and funny little peons, and while I did play the Human side sometimes it didn't click with me nearly as much. - I love the underdogs in most fantasy genres, I've always just had a natural pull in that direction. - I find the Alliance far too human-coded, and I generally find humans in High Fantasy kinda boring. I play a Human IRL, I don't wanna play one in a super fantastical world. - While I do love Night Elves and Dwarves, I think the Horde has cooler races overall. - Tribal, and barbarian aesthetics are awesome and I also like that we get softer, more elegant aesthetics with Blood Elves and Nightborne. We truly have the best of both worlds in that regard. I will say, I am one of those people who kinda wants another faction war (but maybe this time with the Alliance being the aggressors) or at least a faction cold war. While I'm mostly retail I do love the cold war aspect of the world that Classic has going on. I do think we can have our cake and eat it too as well, ie. continuing to implement cross-faction stuff while also telling some great oppositional faction-centric stories. I hope after the World Soul saga is over, something occurs that gives us that cool cold war vibe again. Anyways if you've read all this thank you for listening to me ramble lol

I love the horde first and foremost because it was so novel and cool to see fantasy settings that weren't Eurocentric- Trolls' Afro-Carribean diaspora + a bit of Mesoamerican for the Zandalari, Tauren for their North American Indigenous feel, etc. As opposed to generic medieval fantasy of the humans, dwarves, etc.

I joined waaaay back in vanilla as I really liked the horde of Warcraft III under thrall. Fiercely independent, interesting races, fun cultures, and not mindlessly evil like the older hordes with a greater emphasis placed on honor. That’s been gone for a while.

There is a line from Vul'Jin in during MoP about the horde. He said the horde is a family, that Cairne, Bane, and Thrall weren't his friends but his brothers. That was something Garrosh couldn't understand because he never really had a family. That has always stuck with me the orcs, trolls, tauren, are a family, undead are your goth family members, blood elves are emo and pretty boys/girls and goblins are that brother or sister always out for the money but comes in cliché when it really matters. The Alliance has always felt like a random number of city states that work together only because they're stronger together, it's ironically what the opening use to say about the forsaken; an Alliance of convenience. The horde always has the most in-fighting, which is true. However, families fight it's what happens. I play both sides at max level and I will always prefer the horde, even if I play mostly alliance now.

You join the horde to be a bad guy… you stay to help them defeat their oppressors. That’s why I’m a horde player

The problem is that as soon as an interesting hero appears in the horde, he is immediately made a villain. And the horde members can't even do anything about it. Why did the Horde attack Garrosh and not defend him? Why did we, together with the Alliance, raid Sylvanas? These are OUR heroes. Stop discrediting them.

Being a raging orc warrior that has the heavy sense of honorable combat is what got me to hop in the get go. I like the boys in blue, but the Orcs always have a place in my soul as full tried and true warriors.

I agree just about completely! I especially like your proposed rework of the Gilneas reclamation - I think people have become inclined to wanting both-faction stories since the armistice was signed, but in my opinion the armistice is all the more reason for faction specific storylines. It's okay for not every character to do every story - if people really want to experience it they can make an alt or look it up online, but I think it's a mistake for Blizzard to sacrifice story cohesiveness for the sake of letting everybody do everything. One thing I'd add though that I think is needed to really help develop both the Horde and the Alliance is more devolution and race (well really nationality given we have three human races, two dwarf races, two troll races, two orc races, two tauren races, two draenei races, and about a million elf races) specific storylines. The heritage questlines have been some of the best writing Blizzard has done the past few years and I hope we see more of that local storytelling to define the individual races. It's also essential if Blizzard wants to continue moving towards a more faction-agnostic game, so that people still have a group to identify with that even if the factions take a side seat.

I was drawn to the idea that the Horde is a bunch of misfits that for one reason or another are ostracized throughout the world and come together to carve their own path forward to survive. It's why despite my own distaste for them, I don't mind having the Vulpera be part of the Horde because they themselves are considered this little group of misfits just trying to survive in the deserts of Zandalar. Uglies stick together. I think what the Horde needs is new blood, and specifically just more defined leadership. I think having a council can work but as of this moment it feels very vague and uninteresting, I'd like to see both tension and comradery between members of the council and to have them all just be more active in the politics of the Horde in general. But more than anything else, I think the Horde needs more contentious characters like Garrosh that are willing to be the instigators, start trouble, and tow the line between good and bad. Someone like Gorfax Angerfang, RIttsyn Flamescowl, or Deathstalker Commander Belmont.

It's funny, I joined Horde cause of my friend played Ork. I ended up picking Tauren, just cause they looked cool. Their entire vibe and starting zone seemed so nice, so I never got why where the "bad guys" Horde. That sent me down the Warcraft lore rabbit hole lol. By the end, I only loved the Horde more

I started off Horde side, as a Forsaken Warlock. So I'm not stranger to playing the 'bad guys' of the factions. A large part of the appeal was that all the members of the Horde were outsiders, trying to establish a future for themselves with enemies on all sides. The Alliance on the other hand were the old guard. They existed in their lands for untold generations and were dealing with disruptive efforts within and threats outside. But they were well established and defending their own turf. In the first days of WoW though, the Orcs, Trolls, Forsaken and even the Tauren had recently settled in Durotar, Mulgore and Lordaeron after being driven away by others and were establishing both their own lands and their own identity. This feeling change with later additions to the Horde of course, but it was part of that core identity that drew me in. I don't think the Horde needs to withdrawl to establish their old identity again though. Instead I think they need to look forward and embrace the direction they have been taking of mutual cooperation and support, gathering more allies. Going back to their old ways with Garrosh and Sylvanas' wars has always been the problem and a big frustration for many Horde players. While it makes sense that the Alliance would have distrust towards the Horde, it seems that every time Blizzard wants to stir up that old inter-faction conflict again they put a violent expansionist in charge of the Horde and off they go again. Doing the same story over with new names has been a big problem with Blizzard's writing. I disagree with the assessment of the Horde (specifically the Forsaken's) role in the retaking of Gilneas. For that hostility to move on, they needed to help, and they need to apologize. If it wasn't for the Forsaken attack and plaguing of Gilneas during the Cataclysm, Liam Greymane would be alive and the Gilneans would still have their city. The worgen uprising and destruction of Deathwing would have been bad, but it was ultimate the Plague that drove them away. The Forsaken needed to make up for that. And with their mutual enemy of the Scarlet Brotherhood occuping the city it was the perfect time for them to work together. Especially since they are not 'under new management' with the Desolate Council ruling them instead of Sylvanas. Now is the time to reach out and make some amends. Or at least throw up some distraction for whatever nasty tricks they are cooking up... Way to much bad attention has been put on a faction that even members of the Horde don't trust. With the coming revamp of the northern parts of the Eastern Kingdoms and the clear effort to have a lot of inter-factional friendships forming among both leaders and ordinary citizens of the Alliance and Horde now was the time for both sides to either put aside their hatred and fear for each other.. or in cases like Genn's to give over the reins of power to someone else if they can't let it go.

1. Blood elves 2. I like to pretend Orgrimmar is Mordor

I am mostly an alliance guy but Thrall's story and character and the awesome orc lore have drawn me to make some orc toons from time to time

I started out as Alliance but was drawn to Horde after finding a great guild on Argent Dawn who I have RP'd with for the past 6 years. I feel Alliance fight the horde just because, and the Horde have a much more complex in terms of story writing, not just black and white good and bad guys. I completely agree the Horde should step away from the Alliance and focus on their own thing. Hopefully Thrall coming to terms with what the Horde is in the new expansion War Within will go over this well! Because you know with Metzen back Horde are going to get some love! :D love your videos by the way! Thought I had subbed... my bad! Fixed now!

Just discovered your channel and after watching this vid and the moving on vid, I like these vids! I started playing WoW back in early WotLK and I played a belf paladin since I was 12 then and played this game all the way to legion and was off and on for shadowlands and bfa and only played a month of dragonflight. I really enjoy classic and hardcore more but I rarely have time to play it. But after playing so long, I love the Darkspear trolls the most. I love Vol'jin and I really enjoyed retaking Echo Isles back in Cata. I was really sad and disapointed how they killed off Vol'jin but was really hyped when they brought him back as a spirit for us for certain quests that dealt with Bwomsamdi and in Shadowlands. But what I loved mostly about the Horde was the people who were super helpful to me in my time roaming in the barrens and dungeons in hellfire peninsula back in 2008. The community for horde side always seemed very helpful and ready to help another out

The Tauren have been wronged by the Alliance a ton The Explorer's league displaced and lead to the death of a entire Tauren tribe

While most people on the alliance including myself always did complain about the horde having alot of screentime when it comes down to races being apart of the story at times when it comes down to the other races they are mosty ether around or just used as props like goblins for example, rest of the blood elves, nightborne, and etc. Which is why I hope in the future we get updated race models and just overall a update hd build of the Civilization that the Regular Trolls, Blood Elves, Goblins, Tauren, and more are apart of. Blood Elves right now still have extremely outdated old buildings that serious need a huge update along with the creatures of quel'thalas, and even other characters like rommath, and lor'thermar's other advisers. Same with the Darkspear since they probably have any updated HD Regular Troll Buildings as well. I'm hoping that during the Darkspear Troll Heritage Armor, or atleast during the expansions of War Within, Midnight, and Last Titan we see other races of the horde get a huge HD update. So far right now the Orcs and Forsaken are doing fine well mosty Orcs but Forsaken still has that cataclysm buildings or wrath that could use bit of HD Touch.

Good job! Excellent material.

What drew me to the Horde back when I first got into the Warcraft universe back in Warcraft 3 was the camaraderie between the characters. How Thrall, Cairne and Vol'jin are straight up adoptive brothers in the end and how united the Horde is at that time until Cataclysm. What really used to define the Horde was that old heavy metal aesthetic, and I am not saying that the new races are bad at all but that core of how the Horde functioned. Controlled savagery is what I would call it, the way the Horde fought united to stay alive and forge another day for itself and those that called the Horde home. Azeroth needs the Horde and the Alliance because neither side could defend Azeroth alone. It has been proven time and time again that when the two factions fight together nothing can stand against their might. But I do believe the Horde needs to find its roots again, the council is a good idea but I also believe that the Horde needs its true Warchief again. Thrall was and is such a icon of a leader that without him the Horde has kind of lost its way. And the Horde has lost a lot of leaders and power houses over the years let us be honest.

Amusingly I was made to join Horde by friends; I originally played the game against my will and I was like if I had to play I wanted to play worgen, I didn't know anything about factions, lore, or what it all meant. But after playing Horde as a tauren I grew attached to the lore and I liked the feeling of being a rugged underdog in a world that hates you and you have to carve out a place for yourself. The only thing that sucks is I'm tired of the constant 'horde did bad, now here's 2 years of an expansion of you being shamed for picking horde and you better say sorry and clean this mess up'. I rarely feel empowered as a horde player anymore so I just play both factions on and off.

When I first started the Horde was the side my friend, who got me into WoW, played on. So I just stuck on it, even today while this friend isn´t even playing anymore.

New Sixsten video just dropped let's goooooo

The Scarlet crusade isn’t just an easy, punching bag. It’s a favourite punching bag. Most players would rather beat the crap out of the Scarlets than each other.😂

I first started as alliance actually, but I found it to be a bit too stereotypical, the races, Stormwind (even though I love that city), quests, are a bit too bland. And after like a month of playing alliance, an in-game friend I made during that time, told me that maybe I should try horde, and I immediately fell in love with the blood elves and orcs, and the other races are cool as well, the story is atypical so it feels like something a bit more fresh compared to other games, Orgrimmar is interesting even if not very aestethically pleasing (thoughc I still prefere to take a walk through Stormwind from time to time, just because it has a great feeling to it). So yea, I've been a horde boy ever since I tried blood elves an orcs, and I especially love their lore. Really looking forward to Midnight :3 finally an opportunity for blood elves to shine, which is weird, considering it's probably the most played race.

6:56 that sounds like an awesome idea. As for what drew me to the Horde. I thought they had a cool design and love how unique each of the Horde races were instead of the Tolkien-eques fantasy races.

I remember playing Warcraft 1 on school computers and I really liked the Horde. One day I saw my uncle play Warcraft 3 and I fell in love with the Horde. That is why I play as Horde to this day even tho the Horde is not what it used to be, but I still love it.

Great video ! I'm a new subscriber here and i've been enjoying your content quite a lot. Now, I'd like to see your take on the Scarlet Crusade and how you could see its story developped more in the future. Also...WHY can't we get the scarlet onslaught tabard ?! It looks SICK

An oustanding video once again; marker's breath what good content. Truly, magnificent. 🥰

Amazing video!

This video made me question my plans for the future. Thank you for that.

I've always played both Alliance and Horde (all races/classes) since OG vanilla. I would definitely agree with your points in this video. I have no issue with Alliance and Horse hating eachother, or with them being allies in the long run. But like you said, it need to happen gradually. It feels since MoP that Alliance and Horse have been just jumping back and forth between enemies and allies its jarring and feels unnatural. Btw My favorite Horde have and always will be Tauren and Trolls. From their aethetics, cultures, and lore, they are in my top favorite races over all between both factions. (Worgen/Draenei/Night Elves are my favorites on the Alliance.) And also great writing and humor in this video. Great quality as always keep it up. 🙏🔥🖤

I really loved the troll design. That was basically it. From there I came to love how so many of the stories of the horde are doing awful things mostly from a lack of choice.

Great Vid! Always nice to see some focus on the horde from warcraft youtubers ^_^. Now to your three questions: What draws you to the Horde? What do you think the future has in store for the Horde? and What's an aspect to the red faction that you can't go without? 1) This one is a bit complicated and has some out of warcraft context. There were three massive things that affected my choices when I picked to be a horde player. The first thing was I'm a furry, I really enjoy non-human like beastly races in games (aka major fan of Star Fox, Whiplash, and Elder Scrolls games.). Second was that I started playing back in vanilla, and then the third major thing that affected my choice was when I started playing it wasn't that long ago that the lord of the rings films and video games came out. So there was this major, to my perception anyway; there was a huge drive by people at the time to be cool and be an elf hunter or a dwarf warrior! For me, I learned about the game while painting a minature for the table top strategy war game Warhammer 40,000 while the store staff were talking about the new raid Zul'Garub. (It was just before the blood plague epidemic would break out.) I asked what they were talking about and in short order they helped me narrow down my interest to the noble tauren. They told me about how big and powerful the tauren were and how similar they were to the chaos beastmen in the Warhammer fantasy table top. I had some models of that faction, just cause they were really cool looking. When I finally got into the game I also had a bit of a shock, being of an actual native american tribe (Acoma tribe out of New Mexico) to find a powerful race like the tauren were actually gentle giants who once you finally got the made could become nightmare fuel; I was like "holy shit...this is the best race ever!". However, I also learned quick back then leveling a tauren warrior was painful enough to cry over sooo, I made a hunter and he is still one of my main toons to this very day. 2) I honestly do not know what the future world holds for the Horde as it has changed a lot since I started playing. I have seen outland and its strange zones, I've been northrend and dealt with my fear of spiders while fighting the undead spider-men. I've enjoyed the release of the Worgen as playable, the Pandaren, and the Vulpera as well. So there is a lot that could happen. For one despite being a horde player I have alliance worgen and pandaren toons, and I'll be honest team blue did a lot to help me when my first major guild I was with broke up on horde side and I raged quit and made a worgen as soon as cata hit. (Surprisingly I've found gnome players actually are some of the nicest people you could meet, so I refer to them as the alliance's 'Tauren' as that is a view I have heard some use to describe tauren players; being also some of the nicest people you could meet.) One thing I do thing could happen with how blizzard is handling things game wise; either free movement between the two factions by players. Basically I see alliance being able to enter Orgrimmar or Thunderbluff similarly to how horde are treated in the new world tree after it is brought to the mortal plains. Or and this one is more of a big 'what if' idea; they don't ever allow full free movement but instead allow players to go on a quest to have their toons pick which faction they will work with. So Orcs could work to be accepted as an individural member of team blue or a Dwarf could do the same to join team red. Doubtful on this one but I remember a time when people would say; "Blizzard will never make worgen playable!" or "Tauren will never be paladins, or priests, or rogues, or warlocks!" The day blizz announced tauren warlocks I was having a good time reading the forums XD. 3) Now this one is kinda funny after watching your vid, and having some time while typing this up to think about it. There was a word you never used in your video that deep lore aware horde players should know very well; a word that one of our warchief's used to describe what we horde players really are or at least should be. Family, the horde is a broken, complicated, and at times contradictory family of misfits. A family that has for each of its members felt oppressed, caged, discounted, humiliated, and even in danger because of the alliance. (As a current vulpera player; while I enjoy the head pats, did not enjoy the alliance telling them what they could or could not do when it came to making tread for the betterment of their people's lives. Does not mean you instantly jump to burning down the vulpera's homes, considering how much wealthier the alliance is, you'd figure they would have just made the vulpera a better offer instead at least in their first attempts to get the vulpera to stop trading with the horde?) In short I think the single most important thing blizzard needs to keep about the horde; is that sense of family. We may bicker, even punch each other, even maybe call each other names; but in the end the horde is a family who lets be honest is just as important to the well being of azeroth as the alliance is. I think we need to see more inter-faction cooperation; and some more attention of the new members like the Nightborne, Pandaren, and the Vulpera. Would like to see the horde races come together to rebuild camp Taurajo, finish securing Ashenvale at least upto Darkshore, take advantage of some of the environmental changes brought by the cataclysm with farming coming to Durotar because of the larger amount of fresh water in that area or letting the goblins create a geo-thermal power-plant in the burning scare that broke the barrens in two. Overall even though I became a major fan of the worgen, deep down I'll always be a member of the Horde, we've had good times and bad times; but through it all we have made it by staying together and working as a family. Looking forward to the new updates for the forsaken, blood elves, and the trolls in the upcoming patches and expacs. Love the vid, and I really hope to see more content about the horde ^_^ Until then, be well and may the earth mother guide.

I knew something was gonna be wrong with the horde for a while when most of us did not splinter off away from Sylvanas after the tree. SO if they can remember that much on how horde should think, it would be a good first step

My first was a BElf mage. I still have her, she's my "in" to that side of the story. I have a few others but I fell in love with a gnome main, my beloved Rubyrose, a mage, and most of my characters are Alliance. I've been trying to level up as many to 60 as possible in preparation for the next expansion. I'll bring them to 70 this summer. And I'm trying to make sure half of them are Horde. I did swear off Horde after Teldrassil but I'm trying to forgive (a bit hard). And, as an author of a series with what seems like a cast of thousands, it's hard to try to see both sides when you prefer one or the other. It's also hard to keep all the lore straight, I imagine the lore book for WoW looks like one of Khadgar's giant tomes with thousands of pages. I also see, in my head, the timeline and storyboard of the next expansion(s) tacked up in hallways and things like "part two of expansion A on floor 5" notes when they run out of room. I would LOVE writing for WoW but that's a ship that sailed, can't move to Cali (grandkids). So, I happily read their books and play the games (and bug my husband for the new mounts and pets).

I initially wanted to join the horde for one reason. I grew bored of the human and undead and might elf campaign. The horde taming a savage land always catches my attention. Also I loved to make as many taurens as posible and together with Shamans wreck all land units on ma path

Clearly the answer is we need to recruit the Unshackled, Nerubians, Ogres (Well they are already there, I guess give them a Seat on the Council/Make them playable.), Botani (They followed us when we saved the Mag'har and their Ogre, Gronns, and Gronnling allies.), and the San'layn into The Horde.

They have scenarios, they could have made the reclaiming be a queable experience, that had horde players appear as alliance. So players get to experience the content, without maintaining an alt on the other faction.

8:30 Hearing you say this has given me a, in my opinion, better idea. What if the Forsaken push the Scarlets back, but the Gilneans - approaching from the south at the same time - take the Forsaken encroachment as them trying to claim Gilneas for themselves again, but from the Crusade this time? This would turn things on their heads - all of a sudden, indisputably, the Alliance becomes the clear aggressors as the worgen surge forward, not stopping to ask any questions, tearing into Forsaken and Crusader alike. This would reset the status quo and reinforce what I believe is a true RULE of WarCraft: a peace between the Horde and Alliance can never and will never last. As Saurfang said it best: "We could not fill the chasm between the Horde and Alliance if we labored a thousand years." Lastly - and most importantly - this would provide a series of fresh new Horde vs. Alliance story hooks for the newer generation of named WoW NPCs - and the players.

As a avid GILNEAS player, there will Always be apart of me that can’t Ever forgive forsaken, and by association the horde for what they did to our homeland

Started out as “hey there’s werewolves, that’s cool” into “the undead did What?” And then “They’re part of the Who?” And now I’m forever an alliance player 🤷‍♂️

...I guess what drew me to the horde, depending on the version it have been different things. In some points, it was for the purpose to join others who had chosen the horde, so I started up a horde character to join them. The next has been curiosity, again split in two. One is how would it look from the other side of the conflict? And .... which of the available hairstyles would Sylvanas have started out with? What spec of the hunter, was she, ending up as a Ranger General with the High later Blood elves?

Started playing the game a few days ago, no idea the can of worms I opened when I joined the horde.

It was inevitable for me to go Horde. To start, in any fantasy game, if given the option, I never choose human because I want something different. When I played Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans, it was a no brainer for me to pick orcs. Fast forward to starting with WoW, looking over all the options, I made a Forsaken Warlock. It clicked for me since I was still kinda goth, love horror movies, and I liked the aesthetic they had. Unfortunately everyone I knew playing WoW, was Alliance and I was playing my zombie 'lock as someone looking at her undeath as a second chance to do something with her existence. Over time and playing more Horde races, to me, the Horde is the faction of second chances. They don't deny they've done some horrible things, and work on redeeming themselves even though at times there's some stumbles. They're a motley proud faction that even though there's some infighting from time to time, they still come together to pull through. My experience with giving Alliance a go is it's the 'we're better than you' crowd. They've done some horrible things at times, but never acknowledge it, never admit it, but good God they won't ever let the Horde get any slack over what positive it's done when they can fling out some more grief over past actions. You have humans demanding to retake Lorderon when it's still being occupied by the people of Lorderon who just now lack a pulse. Dwarves and gnomes tearing up Tauren land and riling the nature spirits. Kaldorei butting heads with Blood Elves because there ain't no drama like elf drama and there's 1000s of years of drama with them. And at no point will the Alliance think 'maybe we might be in the wrong here'.

8:13 wasnt that the stated reason why the forsaken were helping in the first place?

Also, we need evil quests for alliance to show some bad stuff that you're doing for "good"

Two things. The actual reason for Horde being still around. United we are strong. Divide we are weak. And second. Horde has vulpera. Yes. I love vulps! They cute and ferocious.

I joined the Horde because Lok'tar Ogar, baby! Let's fucking goooooooooooo!!

Would love to hear your thoughts on War Within!

Something missing from the game is far more contentious relations between the allied races/kingdoms like existed in the Warcraft RTS games. It just makes the constant disfunction in the horde look even worse.

Head pats for u

Monstrous characters I could play. Tauren are why I became Horde and still am 18 years later.

Well for me... I started with Warcraft during Warcraft 2 tides of darkness and love the horde since My favorite part is from beyond the dark portal missions were your "hero" character is Teron gorefiend and in lore love that guy MU and AU versions. I liked horde under Garrosh and though thralls and Sylvanases were equal in my mind.

What draws me to the horde? Cause I think wow Goblins are the most personality packed goblins in fiction.Cooky, silly, but can be down right vicious mofos when you want.

Also on coloring the factions having one named 'The Alliance' reminiscent of the good guys (victors) of a historic war part 2, And Horde as in 'The Mongol Horde' and the mongols where brutal so any that have read any cursive world history have some preconditions on who is who ;D Plus i cant forgive that elf hating human general in wc3 sin'dorei for life, for the horde!

Honestly, the horde isn’t inherently evil, it’s unfortunate circumstance, that has lead to hate, disparity and division, while the races native to Azeroth like trolls, Tauren, forsaken, blood elves,goblins, they’re just trying to live, and can’t. Like the blood elves literally suffered a period of time where they were reliant and addicted to mana. The forsaken, refused by their loved ones after being forced into undeath, now just living an unlife that is a grim reminder of who they were, what they experienced, where they escaped, what they can no longer have, they can’t even touch light magic without it searing their bodies and souls, that’s why they turned to shadow. It’s sad and lowkey unfair if you think about it, the alliance hold themselves in a higher regard while demonizing the horde just for existing. It’s a holier than thou type of attitude. I guess what drew me to the horde was the fact that they persevere and overcome.

I miss the days when story was simple horde fights alliance that’s it …I enjoyed jelling for the horde and fight back the alliance

The whole idea of the Horde is freedom and equality. While there are gnomes in the alliance, building terrible machines. The Horde only accepted the goblins because of this. Only because she is forced to use the enemy’s methods. Among other things, there are a lot of racists in the alliance. Take the same plot lines with the blood elves and the nightborne.

I honestly thought this was about battleground healing when I read the title 😅

2:40 Incorrect. Many Tauren hold a grudge against the Night Elves for refusing to help in ages past against the centaur - and again more recently, shortly before the start of WarCraft III/WoW. The Night Elves basically shrugged off the threat the centaur posed to the entire continent as they were only currently attacking Tauren lands and it 'wasn't their problem'. That's also the answer to "Why don't Tauren and Night Elves ally together since they're both so tied to nature and druidism?" The druids are - the rest, not so much.

To be honest, joined horde for blood elves, because being looking like a good guy, while also being fanatical maniac that AVENGING FOR SILVERMOON is fun. Also, killing night elves is always okay, they're bastards

i play alliance since they released vulperas as playabla race for the horde

Been horde since day 1 i realate to the horde struggle to push and survive and being an outcast. Also like to play races that arent humans small humans. Etc.

i think we should trade these fkin tauren to the ali, and bromg about some dark iron

The Horde, man this faction really got screwed over by the Sylvanus simps (cause Blizzard would not have done everything they did with her if her simps didn't number in the hundreds of thousands). Voljin better get to come back as a Trex.........Trex Warchief.......

7:15 NO. Correction: " *MEMBERS* of the Horde and Alliance *CAN AND MAY* work together." Continue.

The Horde born cause of Guldan, end with Gul Dan. This is not Horde is is Allaince in red, they both suffer cause of their past, but lets fair, search Medivh, find a way to peacefull coexist, or build back Drainor and let Azeroth in peace

For me in particular, I do think the Alliance and Horde work well when they work together. That's been a staple for such a long time now. Some of that was undermined by some of the more recent storytelling but it worked well before Sylvanas took the wheel really. My core draw to the Horde has always been its characters, aesthetics and themes. I do like their approach of having a character like Thrall mentor Anduin rather than what they tried with Varok and Anduin.

I see it on Argent Dawn EU, that the Horde has lost pretty much its entire playerbase. At least on the server. Where the streets of Orgrimmar and Silvermoon used to be filled with people RP nonstop, ever since BfA it has dwindled down and now you hardly find anyone. The few RP events that exist are regulated through Discord servers. A stark contrast to alliance, who have had a massive increase in players since BfA. The migration was certainly felt then and is now. I for one really hope Blizzard make the Horde once again as it used to be. Not a knock-off version of peace loving sissies as they are now portrayed. Warcraft was always a Horde vs. Alliance game and this fraternization really turned the Horde down. Too many councils, too much being nice. I understand that the devs want to steer the game into a new narrative with new main characters and all, but it all feels way too alliance focused nowadays.

The blood elves should rejoin the alliance.

what pulls me to horde Like..i love Worgen. its hard for me to play any other race. and i wish i could be a worgen with the horde cause to me, the Horde is the group that does, rather than talks. IF the Alliance Debates, talks, and negotiates like a democracy (of monarchs) then Horde is the authoritarian, dictator, or warlord who rather than spend years talking and doing nothing, says lets just DO IT. it causes alot of problems sure, but they actually DO rather than say. the saying "Words are Wind" means alot to me. People will say anything, cause words hold no weight. but to actually DO something, you can't rely on the wind, you need to actually shape the earth. and Ironically, until the reclamation of Gilneas. thats kinda what the Worgen WANTED. stop talking, and DO IT. RECLAIM GILNEAS but....they failed that.....and made it "lets be friends and family. work together. talk." i just...miss the days when the Horde brought the War to World of Warcraft. the Horde neutered....makes it feel like we've lost the War in World of Warcraft.

zug zug

Lets move the story forward. Lets merge the horde and alliance. We can still have Pvp and Orcs vs Humans because there will always be rogue splinter groups who leave the Horde/Alliance because they don't agree with the faction. We could also have a cold war where there is no official war but both the horde and alliance have spies and privat Mercenaries who fight against each while everyone denies their existence. I just don't want a garrosh 3.0 This Story has been told. I want to move on. And it doesn't make sense that we fight against each other while the world is threatened. Horde vs Alliance only makes sense when basic survival is not threatened by a third actor. The only thing i could see is a story where High ranking Alliance and Horde Leaders get influenced by the light and the void. In this story we coule notice that the other faction is being manipulated without noticing that we are manipulated ourselves. So we launch an attack to stop them. This could help a third party who waits for us to weaken ourselves before entering the stage.

Dude lists “Well the alliance and Horde have an equal list of bad things”, and only like 3 can really be blamed on the Alliance and are actually bad. Being Garithos, the Purge of Dalaran, and the Labor camps. (Maybe Arthas, seems a little debatable.) Meanwhile there are like 5 undisputedly bad things the Horde did without a doubt (I’m not counting Wrathgate)

Red = evil ; - ;

The tauren was because of centaurs. Tauren are a lot more badass than most think. Anyway, we should go Amani mode and build more walls and trust nobody. I hated the Gilneas questline. Calia is so disingenuous and I thought it was a genuine derelict mission not approved by Belmont until we suddenly had an army. Having them genuinely want to wipe out the Scarlets would have been so much better, especially with BELMONT instead of Calia. I do not vibe with her being the face now, because she is not a Forsaken classic. She can't represent them. She, to me, feels fully like the Alliance but red thing we're heading towards. I feel DF should have had people in separate camps as well. The writing is so rushed with the and then everyone got along that it's annoying as hell, and I generally enjoyed DF, but... no earthen ring? They would have been the best opportunity for a neutral faction with a slight more Horde lean in all this, but no we only get the expeditions and Kirin Tor. I am not counting the Cenarion circle among the present neutral factions, because it was so night elf focused that I forgot those existed. I joined the Horde because I love the Amani and even though they rightfully despise the Horde, this is the closest I could get. If the Horde is to apologize to anyone, it's not the Alliance, seeing as more people they've wronged exist in the world and the Alliance has plenty of apologizing to do themselves. Although, apologizing to native populations doesn't fit the Alliance very well. That's why the elves suited them until they became victims of prejudice. In that sense, the Alliance is deliberately Eurocentric with a narrative purpose.

I quit the game last year, but I was a horde player for a continuous 15 years before that. Lor'themar summed it up quite nicely in the clip showed in this video. The Horde exists because of the alliance, and more specifically the threat the alliance poses. The Horde has to perceive itself as having been wronged by the alliance to feel coherent, as that is what ties the two very distinct branches of the horde together. If you don't see the Alliance as a threat, there is no reason for the Undead and the Orcs to ever band together; they would otherwise have plenty of reasons to not ally, and both factions were initially against that union as well, requiring Hamuul Runetotem and by extension Cairne to mediate some sense into the relationship. On the one hand, we have Orcs, Tauren and the Darkspear. The Tauren and Trolls both joined the horde in response to the orcs saving their hides from existential threats, the Centaur and the Naga respectively. These two races are the ones with the least beef with the Alliance. I doubt a human would have chatted up a Darkspear before the third war, but that probably has more to do with them simply looking nearly identical to other Jungle Trolls. These three races make fine sense as a faction on their own. They owe eachother blood debts accumulated throughout the third war and share a lot of similar values. They ended Warcraft 3 on Solid terms with Humanity and the Night Elves, with the Orcs choosing to settle in the shittiest part of Kalimdor to both not bother the night elves and also atone for their sins in the first and second wars. On the other hand, we have the Forsaken and the Blood Elves. Every member of both of these factions were technically alliance-aligned at one point or another, have cultures and values that clash considerably with those of the Orcs, Tauren and Trolls, but were in dire need of allies after perceived Alliance betrayals (The Forsaken messengers being shot on sight, and the Alliance not giving any real aid to Quel'Thalas during the Scourge Invasion or after it.) Whether the Alliance was in the right to act as it did in either case is honestly irrelevant to these races' motivations. From the status quo we see in the end of Warcraft 3, the War doesn't really exist anymore, and these two pre-wow horde sections have no reasons at all to be aligned. This changes in the four years between the RTS games and the MMORPG, primarily in the "Cycle of Hatred" book. With Thrall at the helm, and with him on good terms with Jaina and reasonable ones with the Night Elves, the horde has very little reason to be aggressors at all. Getting the Night Elves pissed at the orcs is no real issue. Since the horde settled in a zone with almost no trees, and with orcish buildings and weaponry all requiring lumber, they were forced to harvest it in either Azshara or Ashenvale, both locations the Night Elves consider to be their territory. The Night Elves see this as a horde provocation, and the orcs don't see what the huge deal is about a few trees, excellent fuel for a grey conflict without an outright bad guy, and crucially having the Night Elves firing the first shot. To have Humanity and orcs be at eachother's throats again, Blizzard needed something else, and they spun up the Cycle of Hatred storyline, where the legion expands the Burning Blade cult to include humans in Theramore, notably Jaina's advisor (Who was previously an advisor to Othmar Garithos). Through him, Alliance soldiers are ordered to attack and kill Orc civilians on the coastlines of Durotar and The Barrens. Convincing them to do that isn't really that hard because historical animosity. The Orcs obviously are none too pleased about this, and start fighting back. Et Voilá, another conflict where the only clear bad guy is a dude that dies in the very same book he was introduced in, but whose orders and manipulations ripple outwards for years to come. Now the main horde is in direct conflict on two fronts against the alliance forces on Kalimdor, and are in desperate need of Allies to keep themselves from getting overpowered by the frankly superior alliance forces. Out of desperation and light Druid coercion, they are convinced to ally with the Forsaken, who then in TBC draw in the Blood Elves. Without the orcs and humans killing eachother again, Forsaken just wouldn't really work within the Horde. Their aesthetic, their culture, values, ethics, and even their technological level is completely at odds with the main horde vibe. But what's important is that for Orcs, Forsaken and Blood Elves, their reasons for allying were all to do with perceived slights from the Alliance. The Horde saw Alliance troops slaughtering their civilians immediately after helping them save their world, the Forsaken were rejected by their own species, and the Blood Elves, who honestly reaped what they sowed, received no aid during or after the single greatest calamity in Quel'dorei history. The Bilgewater cartel of course also joined the horde after random Alliance aggression, but it feels more like a case of the horde being the ones that helped them out, rather than simply being the enemy of their enemy, as was the case with the Forsaken. The Allied Races are a different story, but I'd argue the Horde already lost its identity before we even got to 7.3.5 in the first place. At any rate, if the Alliance weren't hyperaggressive and responded to social faux pas' with full-on war, the Horde as we know it wouldn't really exist. And the horde that would exist still only came into being as a response to extinction pressures from outside factions. The horde's core identity is being threatened with extinction, and they have absolutely no interest in warfare with the Alliance beyond knowing that the Alliance is a threat to their survival. This is the real theme that needs to be revitalised for the Horde to feel like the horde again. People that don't really get along, banding together to avoid extinction. They need the Alliance to at least be perceived by them as the Aggressors. Whenever the hordes are the ones instigating war, we remove ourselves from the core theme and veer into generic evil army territory with minotaurs, trolls, goblins, orcs and zombies, and you start questionining why you're bothering with Warcraft at all, since pretty much every shitty fantasy universe has that same faction doing the same things anyway. My hot take has always been, and will always be, that Thrall is the problem. He is simply too level-headed and amicable . Even within the Cycle of Hatred book, Thrall threatens the existence of the War by being too reasonable in the end, hearing out Jaina, and suggesting that they meet in Ratchet to talk out the misunderstandings. As it stands, the existential threats the horde faces are all ones they share with the Alliance, so the Horde ends up losing its identity as the ones being threatened, as they have no unique threats. What we need for the Horde to feel like the horde is for both sides to have leaders that have no chill, and suck at diplomacy. The kind that sees a perceived threat and immediately assumes ill intent, giving the horde something to rally behind. The kind common enemies can manipulate into declaring war on the alliance. And most importantly, the horde needs to always be on the back foot. The alliance needs to at least seem stronger than it, to be a credible one-sided threat.

"The horde are oppressed"... Bro you're a literal Worgen player. Horde literally occupied Gilneas. They are the aggressor.

Alliance wiped out tauren village camp taurajo without provocation and let the civilians run towards quillboars a get slaughtered so even the tauren have valid reason to be mad at the alliance

Theyvare taking the war out of warcraft. No guilds can have both factions? Smh

3:56-Yeah, a lot of people state that the Horde is bad, but the Alliance isn’t any better given all of the horrible things they’ve done. I guess Lothamar Theron is right, the Horde only exists because of how racist and discriminatory the Alliance is.

if u judge by the start of world of warcraft (which puts the 2nd war in the past) the alliance just had concentration camps on a german level and are bathing in facism - ah yes the good guys lol

I am sick of the council and Calia. We never asked for this.

"Please show respect to the Blizz writers?" LMAO no. I'll show them the same respect they show the lore, and their own jobs. That's to say. I'll take a bit ol crap over everything and let Metzen out of his cupboard once a year to shout in his thrall voice about some hype in order to hide the smell. XD

I feel like the Horde are much more often the aggressors in any conflict while the Alliance sometimes oversteps its retaliation. This may just be me hating elves but Blood Elves absolutely deserved the purge of Dalaran. If you're in talks with a faction to possibly change sides maybe don't also coordinate a sneak attack against them. The "We faced racism" excuse doesn't work when the only guy who was racist towards them didn't even survive Frozen Throne to make it to WoW

You know... just a thought... but maybe just have the faction war be a Cold war instead of a childish peace in fear of IRL racist concepts.

Back in 2010, I was a teenager that took massive interest on the Horde side. Two reasons back then were the Horde looks more diverse and badass compared to the Alliance where majority are just humans with different features, and Sylvanas Windrunner was hot. Fast forward to today, I've gotten over my crush on Sylvanas Windrunner as she became an annoying and uninteresting bitch of a character, but I haven't gotten over on what the Horde became. "Oh we're sorry for doing those mean stuff to you. We must strive for peace. Alliance lives matter." I hate how the Horde devolved from a badass faction to a pussy faction. I hate how they changed from having a warchief to the Horde Council. Hearing and saying that name makes them sound so useless compared to King Anduin. We were so hard on Garrosh back when he was an antagonist of a warchief, but compared to the warchieves we've gotten after his dethronement were pale comparison of what we had. Vol'jin died to a felguard and Sylvanas became an annoying mary sue bitch who then played victim that none of the action she committed were her fault. Meanwhile, Garrosh? That orc we all talked shit back then for his action? He's the better warchief, if not THE best warchief period. He defines what the Horde was suppose to be in our minds, and we freakin' love it.

3:57 1. Blame Arthas, but not Ner'zhul? 2. Daelin was right, years later his daughter was betrayed and Theramore is now gone 3. Bigotry towards the Nightborne? What the heck, Tyrande was just putting them into a test, and they easily succumb, the elves of the Horde are a bunch of hypocrites

The Horde will be "healed" once Garrosh's memory is fully rehabilitated and the criminals who murdered him and made false propaganda against him find their heads on the spikes of Orgrimmar.

Lmao! Everything the Alliance has done to the Horde, has been a direct response to what the Horde has done to the Alliance. The orcs invaded Azeroth first, & the Forsaken to this day kidnap/torture/experiment on Alliance civilians. They're not, & have never been, the "oppressed".

World war 2 lasted for 6 years officially. The orcs were in internment camps for roughly 18 - 20 years. Which means humans did sustained daily atrocities for TRIPLE the length of world war 2 when almost every kingdom and advisor in the alliance was like “hey this is way too expensive, why can’t we just kill them?” Really makes you think, how much World War 2 gets taught and treated in our own reality, and how little accountability the alliance has ever had to face.

i play horde because they have the hottest male models (excluding the forsaken ya sickos)

I love your videos but as some others have pointed out, some of your lore points are just not correct. I wont get into it much here unless you or someone really wants to but, long story short: WC3 was a very long time ago and MUCH has changed since then. The Horde is not the same Horde it was in WC3 and its not even the same Horde it was in Wrath. And I am sorry no, you really cant make a 1 to 1 list of war crimes both have done, most things dont compare to razing cities full of people. Your solution is literally the Horde's biggest current issue, that being a LONG history of cutting off diplomatic ties. The bottom line is the Horde has done much worse than the Alliance and almost all evils the Alliance has done the Horde forced their hand in order they did not get wiped out. The Hordes worst enemy is in fact the Horde as you can see from all the in fighting of previous expacs which has been unheard of on the Alliance side. My solution: Instead of having the Horde hide or point fingers, have them own up and actually have the strength to move forward and try to right the wrongs they have committed.