Why World of Warcraft Needs to Move On 

"You either die a hero, or live on long enough to become a divisive case"

Khadgar was a 19 year old lad when the first war happened and now he slowly begins to match his appearance. Genn was King before he went to Kharazan. We were introduced to Jaina when she was barely an adult and now she's approaching her forties. Again, Genn was King during all that time. Genn was King Llane was killed, during all of Varian's reign and all of Anduin's life.

I think letting the legendary characters take a step back makes a lot of sense. The best part is that we don't even have to retire them entirely, it just means that when they do knock off the cobwebs and step into the light (no pun intended) that it will make an even bigger impact because we haven't gotten used to seeing them everywhere and them showing up will have some meaning and impact.

Wish we could go back to not being THAT important and just being part of a bigger thing, not the entire thing. I loved it when it was rare to see a known named figure out in the wild, and now it seems like we're always working with the higher powers.

There is nothing wrong with the old characters being in the story still kicking around. The problem is that Blizzard constantly retconns their past or behavior which leaves us with this shambling corpse pretending to be the character we fell in love with. If Blizzard wants to improve, they need BETTER WRITERS.

One thing that has always annoyed me especially when it comes to leaders and major characters is, very few of them have children or are married. There's also almost never any extended family ever shown of these characters. Almost none of them have any siblings, cousins or aunts and uncles. Which would make for interesting dynamics.

OMG YES THIS! I'm an RPer, and I've said to my guild, "This character's story is done, I'm going to wrap up their narrative and start a new character." and the cries for it to not be so are rife. I feel like a lot of people are the same in regards to Lore NPCs. Also, Metzen's back so... another 20 years of Thrall.

World of Warcraft has effectively become the MCU, and it's a shame. It used to be that faction leaders would hang out in their strongholds, and you generally got the impression that they were tending to their administrative duties, and overseeing their respective realms; figures like Thrall and Jaina had set aside their status as the heroes of Warcraft, letting the players, and new minor characters introduced in World of Warcraft itself, take up the mantle instead. But then a shift happened, and I cannot pin point exactly when but the old guard was pushed into the limelight once more and became, essentially, comic book esque super heroes that are incredibly powerful (but without any clear boundaries in terms of their power) and are coated in massive amounts of plot armour, letting them only die when the plot demands they do so (Varian, Saurfang etc) rather than when it makes sense based on their actions and any logical outcomes. The whole franchise has suffered because of this and WORLD of Warcraft became less about the WORLD.. Of Warcraft, and more about what Jaina and the rest of the Warcraft Avengers get up to; "oh they're besieging Lordaeron now," "oh they're venturing into the Maw now," "oh Tyrande is fighting Sylvanas now." The only time players actually learn of the massive lore implications of cataclysmic events like the actual literal cataclysm, or the invasion of the burning legion, especially in terms of how they affect the general population of Azeroth is through novels, and the moment a new and potentially interesting character is introduced they either get tossed aside in favor of, again, pushing 15 year old characters forward, or they're killed; case in point Arator the Redeemer, Admiral Taylor, General Nazgrim, Deathstalker Belmont, Flynn Fairwind and so on and so forth. I understand why you want to be lenient with the franchise and its lore, but like, Blizzard clearly doesn't give a fuck about it, and is only concerned with pandering to people who haven't yet realized that someone like Tyrande stopped being an interesting character a decade or more ago.

I had lot of talks about this topic with friends and i often mentioned that the best way they handled any of their characters it was Varian. Because the moment his story arc was over his end not only was fitting it was also a benefit for Anduin to be free to develop as a character.

That the legacy characters take a step back is needed because the writers have no fucking clue how to write for them. They did all of the OG characters dirty over the years...

I agree with the idea that some of these characters need to be retired completely. Part of what makes a story good is it actually having an ending, and some of these people don't seem to have a "decent" one in sight. I get they're hugely popular characters, and I'm not saying the have to be killed off, but have them actually get to a conclusion. And not even just characters either, it still baffles me that the Scarlet Crusade, Burning Blade and Twilights Hammer (ok maybe not so much that last one yet) are still around and kicking. How many times must we teach them a lesson?! How in the world is the Scarlet Crusade even getting recruits for an organization that hasn't accomplished anything?! Let them get their time in the spotlight and let them go blizzard ffs! Edit: YOU WERE 12 IN MISTS?! **feeling of old age and stiff knee pain rolling in**

The characters being old isn't the problem, it's the entire game revolving around their soap opera that makes you feel you're playing a singleplayer story rather than an MMO. New characters doesn't change that. Blizzard needs to let go of them and focus on the world itself, which can be ancient as can be.

Something to consider is that elves and draenei are very long lived, and same goes for human mages/wizards of the kirin tor, so I find it strange that they're trying to get some new night elf leader when they've been the night elf leaders for tens of thousands of years. :P

As a person who started the journey playing Warcraft 3, all I cared in WOW was following the story of Arthas, finally ending in WOTLK, after that, there were no other interests in it for me. I would say something else WOW needs to attract and retain players is to go back to RTS with maybe a warcraft 4, where they can focus on building the story of new characters like you mentioned, and where they don't have the pressure of the entire lore and world to worry about, that way people might feel attracted to follow the lore and the journey new characters they met.

Dagran Thaurissan the 2nd son of Moira and Dagran the 1st could be the next Anduin I think. Thrall also has some kids too that could come into play.

I agree but I think they need to take their cue for the passing of the torch from Anduin rather than Tess. Anduin was properly built up while Tess got next to no development before she got the throne. It's a bummer not only for the story in general but for fans of her character. This character who has only previously really appeared in quests not everyone will experience (rogue order hall and worgen heritage) suddenly is declared the leader of Gilneas not because she had a long arc to build her up, but because it seems like the writers just wanted to wash their hands of the lingering Gilneas story and move back to telling stories about their usual favorites. I don't see Tess' new role being a good thing for her character honestly. I expect her to only show up when Gilneas is relevant to the story, and as we've seen, that's rarely the case.

here's the thing they've tried moving on and it's resulting in the game and lore feeling insanely hollow the faction conflict was what drove the story Garrosh Hellscream was a great motivator for that but instead of bliz pulling a grand grom hellscream call back we got an execution and ever since then they seemingly just didn't know what to do Thrall could have had his retirement Garrosh could have remained warchief or potentially had a kid like Grom did idk how to explain it but it just would have been way easier to build a story around him and his actions than what we got

Damn you made me feel old. I remember meeting Jaina and she was a teenage badass. Now she's in her 40s and the horde and alliance still tryin to start a war.

Ironically, I think Genn and Tyrande were two characters who did not need to leave the story at this time. Genn stills serves a great purpose as Anduin's guiding uncle. Tyrande is the leader of an immortal people. There is no reason for her to take a back seat. Tess was thrown to the forefront out of nowhere, and the focus on her with the Gilnean reclamation really took away from Genn's story and hurt the narrative as a whole. Shandris is a good general, but there's no reason she should be made leader of the night elves. Characters like Thrall certainly should take a back seat, but Blizz won't develop any new characters for certain races to look to. The world as a whole has been neglected so much at this point that a reset is almost needed to move forward without more wonky sendoffs like those seen in 10.2.5.

I always imagined Jaina could retire and maybe have a little mage school in Boralus, being a mentor to the new generations of heroes.. it feels like it would suit her. Thrall could be hanging out with his family in Nagrand.. and so on. This would allow for new characters to become the forefront of the story, while still having the old characters somewhere out there in the world and use them IF something that's happening in the new lore is relevant to their life story

Really great video, I was hesitant at first when I read the title but the points you made really changed my mind. Also, never change you outro!

All I really want is locations update for cataclysm zones

Having the shadowlands as a place that people can go to and return from was such a bad idea story/setting wise. Instead of death being a way to end a characters story they can be just as active from beyond the grave. Now the only way for them to actually be out of the picture is by being erased al la garrosh, which sucks as that means they are straight up gone and not enjoying an afterlife in peace.

I love your future forward approach to looking at the story. Here's to 20 more years.

I've been wanting them to develop entirely new characters for many years. I thought for the longest time that they were building Zekhan to become the new leader of the Darkspear. I also want to see them utilize the Allied Race leaders more. Especially Talanji (and Bwonsamdi by proxy). I think a lot of moving on isn't just the devs. There's probably the hanging fear of sidelining all of the characters that make the IP familiar, but also players just unwilling to let them go since they've followed their stories for decades now.

Just wanted to say I just discovered your channel and am rooting for you. Honestly thought I was going into a hollow clickbait-y video but found it had a lot of good points raised and can tell you put a lot of work into it, and care about the lore. Looking forward to more!

Hey! I started in MoP, too, and around the same age. You actually managed to pinpoint the reason why I like Anduin as a character, something that I didn't notice before: We grew up beside'im. (And got traumatized beside him, too, lol *sobs) I'm quite curious to see how they're going to explore his inner struggles in The War Within. That's it. I'm resubbing!

What was good was the leveling process, i remember replaying the NE starting area over and over. Now we can just rush trough it. The story is there, but skipped. Characters feel empty

It wasn't simply that Sylvanas' story "kept going", they just kept making huge shifts in direction without actually finishing anything. Securing a future of the forsaken? Completely forgotten. Exploring the ramifications of putting a pragmatic cutthroat in charge of a nation of honorable idealists? Barely ever touched upon. When you keep starting a character's story over from close to scratch every expansion, it's going to suck.

Tbh idk if I agree with like, Sylvanas. Her story was cool until they randomly made her warchief. It wasn’t just length that ruined her, it was a string of increasingly worse decisions.

You're wholesome as always, and I really appreciate the open mindness you have, that most nostalgics lack tbf xD Also, what you said about passing the torch to the newer generations, I'd really love to see the start of character development of Durak and Arator, especially :3

Some of this is going to take an old world revamp or at least partial revamps which I think we are getting some of at least starting with Midnight. Another problem is that when new characters are introduced they tend to be expansion specific such as the case with Yrel in WoD. Having her legacy and further story be the Maghar orc allied race quest line was a total waste of a character they spent an entire expansion building up to make her a big deal. Thats one of the problems with time travel/alternate dimension storytelling though. Adding more factions like the Argent Dawn/Crusade is another great way to introduce characters. When major events happen in game especially the tragedies there is no reason why major factions like that don't sprout up in the wake of them. That way you could have random civilian NPC's all of a sudden become a big deal in the lore. They have done a fairly decent job of replacing faction leaders due to events in the story but it needs to happen in game and not in novels in between expansions though. That's horrible storytelling for players.

We are seeing something like that happen but it's been a slow change which in my opninion is great, leads to a more smooth transition. In Shadowlands we said bye to Sylvannas, Legion it was Varian and Tirion, BFA it was Saurfang and Genn has retired now with the retaking of Gilneas, we'll probably say bye to Thrall in the war Within me thinks

The biggest issue with WoW's lore is how often stuff is retconned. I dont pay a lot of attention to WoW's lore and basically stopped caring after Legion but trying to catch up with the lore while knowing previous stuff is very confusing because all of sudden characters are doing things that they never would have done.

"...they're still kicking around and pulling up to the raids" Great writing to supplement thoughtful points. Love the content!

The problem isn't that they won't let go of characters. The problem has been that they won't pick a trajectory that makes sense or that was based on earlier lore. They have always worked by Rule of Cool and don't care what the character has done in the past or how they operated. In Varian's case, he didn't die to so they could end his story. He died solely for the 'cool' ideas they had for the Alliance and how they'd deal with not having a proper king.

Great video! Problem is or would be how will old audience react to new characters, they grew with old ones. Seeing your favorite character die or retire is kinda sad. In my opinion, Blizzard should take time with introduction of new characters, as well as retiring old ones.

the problem isnt that sylvanas- or any other character for that matter- kept going- its that the writers took the piss. Sylvanas could very much still be a beloved character if treated better

you and I are some of the few that like the fact wow is moving on to the other characters and letting the older characters take a break.

Your videos are soooo good! And I agree so much. Some characters have kids that we never saw in game, like thrall

You worded this better than I could and it’s the most sensible way for wow to continue!

5:18 BRO I got that exact same set as a kid too! I still remember my aunt making my read the entire beginners guide before even starting wow back then good memories

Wait wait wait, what was that for a scene by min 1:24 with Fyrakk. Never seen that before, what have i missed?

I mean paying attention to the story leading up to War Within, they are finishing up the stories and bringing in a lot of New Character (Genns daughter, Merithra, Tyrande's adopted daughter) So I think this is already something they are working on. They're passing the Torch onto the new peeps, its obvious if you pay attention

Great video! Keep up the good work :)

Arthas was the character that really got me into wow when i was in 8th grade. I even got frostmoure as a Christmas gift with the wrath expac in 2008.

This channel is gonna become something. AMAZING

I relate to this so much, I started playing wow in late wrath. After playing Warcraft 3. I started as horde but for some reason I don’t remember, I switched to alliance Anduin being my fave character because I grew up when he became Manduin!

Awesome video with lots of work there ! :D Regarding characters, I'm getting bored of always seeing all those heroic characters and them beeing inconsistent. One time they need you and you definitly save the world, the other time, Jaina just snaps her finger and freezes you all and summons flying ship.

Also needs a full gameplay overhaul dragon riding is a great step in the right direction

Its not just letting go of characters I think, but overall focusing on writing them well. Some should die, but others should also get more time on screen. Remember when Wrathion just suddenly dissapeared in Legion? Or how Tirion, Cairne and Vol'jin died? But this also applies to regions and different races. Whats up with Gnomeregan? Did the Draenei developed a town on Azuremyst already? What happened to the people who lost their homes during the cataclysm? Whats up with Outland? What happened to C'thun's body after Sargeras most likely impaled it? The writers made large mistakes by focusing only on whats actual, instead of the world. The largest parts of this game's story were ignored for a long time, the way Blizz approached storytelling turned out to be a little counterproductive. Not all of them were ignored of course, but most of it still was. Of course its not easy to keep all parts of the world fresh when you make one this large, but my problem is that this wasn't the actual goal :(

I couldn't agree more. Varian is one of my favourite characters and I have a lot to remember him by.

I think you put it best when you said that characters need to have naturally endings. When it makes sense for them to end they should. But I would argue that this includes WoW. WoW can't go on forever. There need to be a point where it needs to end. At least in my opinion.

You hit on a lot of great points, and I think Blizzard (specifically Chris Metzen) sees the World Soul Saga not just as an opportunity to tell new stories with the newer era of characters, but to also give a lot of old favorites one big final outing before finally passing off the reigns. There's a great foundation to be had here with Anduin, Zekhan, Taelia, Dagran II, and Thrall's children, as well as bringing back characters who have been around for a while but just haven't gotten that time in the spotlight (Shandris, Gorgonna, Rexxar, Baine, Belmont, and so on). There's so many characters young and old just waiting for the opportunity to shine. Something I really hope we see again is the return of factional tension, and I don't mean another big war. But real tension like what was going on during Vanilla. The factions were not directly at war but there still existed groups of people within the factions that would engage in conflict (the Warsong Clan, Sons of Lothar, the Defilers, the Stormpikes). With how recent all of these wars have been, I personally think it's highly unlikely every single person is okay with the Horde and Alliance working together as they do now, there will always be people in-universe who hold on to that hate, Genn even acknowledges it in the Reclamation of Gilneas. I know people hated the Fourth War, but I do think at least having some sort of actual tension can lead to better stories.

Absolutely fantastic points that had not crossed my mind - thank you!

Oh? Shandris is in control now? That's pretty cool, she was in WC3 but I don't recall what she really did but she had a unique texture on the model Sylvanis uses, nice to know she's trusted enough :)

I feel like the early life of WoW had a clearly defined roadmap brought to it from its history and lore. Vanilla was leveling and prepping to take on the local issues of the world. TBC brought Illidan back into the picture, but also made more connections to its vast existing lore. Wotlk was end boss time, the big bad Arthas looming over us for years either literally or figuratively. It felt like after that, the story never really felt cohesive. It was the first time if you took an expansion off you felt blind sided by the direction the story took. Hopefully with thwm planning the next three expansions together it will get that solid world building again. I love the legacy characters, but there are many heir's to their spots that make sense. They dont all need to be "killed off" but they can easily take a desk job as an advisor for the new generation

Came here from Pyro. Great video! Subbed. :)

Great video man !

I agree with this comment of moving forward. But I wonder how much players want that is a big deal number if them asked for Classic and prefer to remain locked in the past.

Great vid! You're just missing a few important thing on Sylanvas' story: She tried to end her life after the defeat of the Lich King. She then got resurrected and got the aid of the Val'kyr, her former enemies - servants of the Lich King - which nobody really called her out for. Which kinda is a plot hole that got fixed with Shadowlands with her becoming an sleeper agent of the Jailor who gave her new allies in return for her life instead of endless torment. Her task was now to wait and kill more of the living which was against her previous agenda of only saving her people. (it really felt weird but was super awesome - she even got, famously, called out by Garrosh for it) It's just that people really dislike the plot filling because the Jailor but, I thought it to be a clever way to fix that. It's just a shame, it never really got communicated as such, just hinted at. And that's a big issue - communication with the Lore. Her story since Legion isn't told very well, just hints but if she were to get her own game campaign like what Blizz did back with the RTS games, it'd be so much better. Play as Sylvanas, from her point of view in Wrath (first time she got active actually), the Death of Arthas the Lich King, to her rising as the Warchief and downfall, to the point at which she gets her split soul back and redeems herself by releasing Arthas' soul and doing AP grinds in the Maw. That's something we desperatly need: Outside Media that people can play or watch that will catch more people's attention and expand the world and ties everything together. (I'm just 3:50 into the video at this point, so I will continue now ...) Agreed on the new generation of Heroes that must rise up - the old ones are going one by one: Varian, Saurfang ... true MEN of Honor and Fight. Even the Dragons have a new Generation with Wrathion. It's just that as heads of their state, they can't really be traveling around as much as Jaina, Thrall and Dadgar can because they aren't mages or gave up their mantle to travel, study and save the world. They are leaders and their people need them at home. Which is tricky. I'd say the next big thing we will see for WoW will be after the World Soul Saga ends. It is clearly and openly the Ending Point for the Warcraft we know today. Something big is coming... (in 6 years or so)

Huge huge respect Sixsten, i totally with you, i started with the Battle Chest WoW, then Mist, WOD, BFA and SL and now DF and probably continue on but all the hard grind for Tmogs and such can make players burn out at times ya know. Anyhow Mist remix was probably the best thing Blizz ever did so far, and hope they continue on this with WoD, Legion and so on later.

i really hope Shandris gets her own unique model going into Midnight (assuming the night elves will be put in the background and not get a lot of action after the whole Teldrassil arc), and not some random night elf customizations with blue questing gear on

this channel is gonna be huge

It's really about having a vision of the character development that spawns across multiple "titles", and deliver it properly. Varian vs Genn or Malfyrande.

Remember proud Gilneans...our rightful king renounced his crown for depression and dementia finally set in...and after a lifetime of failures...Gilneas is finally in the "right hands" A woman's hands!. And no i have nothing against Tess...they actually made her look great but the way it was delivered felt hallow and unearned.

Basically read my mind with this video and replicated a lot of discussions I've had with friends and guild mates. I know it's a controversial position, but in the same vein I think Blizzard's handling of Arthas in Shadowlands was about the best they could've done with it. If Blizzard wants WoW as a storytelling device to survive it needs to be willing to let go of those characters that have been kicking around for nearly fifty years through the mainline media in-universe. As an aside, this is the first video I've seen of yours, and it's super exciting to find someone with a similar WoW background to me - I was also 12 when MoP came out and that was my first proper introduction to WoW. You've definitely gained a new sub and I'm excited to see you're journey through RU-vid!

Id really like to see some of the characters kids be focused on the next expansion since its like an underground expedition, ronin's two sons thrall kid scrounge some other characters and it would be cool to see a new gen

I only partly agree with what you are saying. I think it is great to introduce new characters and ultimately have them phase out the old in most cases. There are a few where, given who the characters are, it doesn't make much sense. The forsaken, for instance, don't really age so it wouldn't make much sense for their leadership to change all that much unless there are some external factors (i.e. abdication, assassination, etc.). The night elves were immortal but lost that during the 3rd war... it would make for an interesting exploration of how their society might be slow to adapt to this. For instance, Malfurion/Tyranda know they can't lead forever but can't give up the habit since they have been doing it for literally thousands of years. Personally, I think the best way to deal with this type of situation is the way Joe Abercrombie handled the second generation of protagonists in his "Age of Madness" trilogy. This trilogy occurs after the First Law trilogy and all of the story beats have their roots in the original trilogy. The old guard is still there but in many cases either moved on, died, or are working in the shadows but the consequences of their actions can still be felt. The past is definitely part of the present and should not be discarded but there should absolutely be some acknowledgement that time moves forward. Oh, and one addendum here. I don't think that it is an inevitability that older characters will become bad ones. That has more to do with writing direction. Let's face it; the best stories Blizzard told about the Warcraft universe were told in the RTS games. I am not sure what they did with the writing staff since, but it has steadily declined and lead to cringeworthy scenes like the Jailer suggesting there is a bigger bad and the one where the aspects get their powers back through the power of friendship. I think the two biggest issues with WoW's story telling is that the threats have gotten too big/convoluted and it has also lost its grit.

I agree we need to let these heroes have a great send off, or a way to push the narrative forward. I hate to see them go because it feels like the last bit of Old Warcraft, but I also disagree about who should take their place. I think Anduin is a good replacement since he's been a prominent face since Vanilla, Tess is kinda new and harder to adjust to. If they wanted to move in this direction, it would have to be through the next expansion or 2

The powerful characters dont feel so powerful anymore. theres no mystique to any of it anymore.

I think we will Sylvanas again. I'm interested in how that story is going to go with her being back to her Ranger General self. Is she going to be accepted back into the ranks of the elves she used to lead? Her sisters are going to be stepping up into roles, she'll be an side-story and that's a good thing. We may see them arguing with Sylvanas (who is the middle sister with Alleria being the oldest) about what she sees them doing as dangerous, bad, or such. Alleria is void and that's going to play into this next three expansions along with her husband, Turalyon. That may be another conflict as these expansions go forward. Genn is still going to be there for Anduin, This will be good because of Turalyon and how I think he's going to try to keep the throne AND the fact that he may see Anduin's lack of the light as a threat and someone's gotta have Anduin's back. And you have to remember that these stories aren't necessarily in the same years as we live, I know Elves are almost immortal, and the other races seem to have longer lives than the humans on Earth have. What we see as "old" may not be so much, and magic will be a factor in their lives that may extend them. I'm in your "over 40" crowd, started playing in Burning Crusade and still play. I'm 67, with grown grandkids your age. And, I'm a huge Anduin fan (and Wrathion).

@Sixsten, I first got into the franchise with Warcraft II (then went to 1, then 3 and later WoW came out). As such a fan of the (og/pre-warlords retcon stuff) I LOATHE the framing of your case. However, you explain that it's not the need to "leave the past behind," but the need for new characters to take to the fore. This latter sentiment - at least for any non-immortal (ie elven) factions - I whole heartedly agree with. Even with the elves, be they night elves or blood elves, need lieutenants and captains to come forward to lead raids that the players (who are supposed to be the faceless masses) rub shoulders with. There's two other points I think WoW really needs going forward. First off, we need to stop with this increasing stakes time and time again. Warcraft I was just about 1 kingdom. Warcraft 2 was a continent. Warcraft 3 was the entire world having to face a demonic invasion. WoW took that upscale trend and continued it to the literal gods that control life, death, and the very fabric of reality. At some point, you gotta go "just...stop." Like Tyrande, we just get tired of the child-like silliness of a "newer, bigger, baddie." How about you give us a warlord who just wants to stomp the Night Elves in Stormtalon Peak and make it his new orc clan's territory? How about a rogue necromancer introducing a plague that also affects the Forsaken? Not everything has to be an apocalypse level event. I think that's part of WHY WoW writers have felt the need to constantly bring the VIPs of the setting in so relentlessly. Instead, give us something more rooted. Take the BFA trailer the VIPs - in context of the battlefield - are acting more like generals than end all/be all forces they play out as narratively. Ok Sylvannas can delete a siege tower and everyone inside, but the Alliance has like 12 more rolling toward the walls. Anduin can revive everyone in a hundred meters, but the battlefield is the entire side of a city. This plays to your point for needing lower ranking officers and heroes to step up and be the characters the players and the VIPs interact with. Second point is a bit simpler. Stop the constant on and off wars, with both sides being just nice people once you get to know them. It feels painfully rare to have a character who is/becomes/stays truly malicious in WoW. In fact, I'd basically say we have 3: Garrosh, Sylvannas, and (for a time) Jaina. Just let another war between Horde and Alliance start up and let it continue. Instead of expansions settling a whole war in that expansion, make each expansion a battle, or campaign. Give us 1 expansion for a Horde invasion of Khaz Modan. Later, give us a Night Elf siege of Orgimmar, and so on. To give a wink and nod to history, Europe had the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648) and was the same setting as the Three Musketeers. The war lasted so long and was so bloody that both sides literally had heroes, kings, and emperors come into the spotlight, shine, and then die all during the conflict. WoW can use that to ease up on the pressure for writing (see 1st point), give players an ongoing conflict to participate in (2nd point), and allow a whole new cast to come into play under the direction and guidance (rather than direct intervention) of the previous cast of heroes. Anyway, thanks for making the video. Dropped a like, despite my disdain for the 2-second sum up. Hope you can drop any thoughts you have on these points.

And the concept you speak of here worked great for Dragonlance

I think the major issue is that there's only been about 20 years of in game story. As of Dragonflight, Anduin was 25 years old. In a world thats been in near constant war since the Knoll War (approx. 125 years ago now), that's a massive amount of time and there have been relatively few deaths for named characters (mostly just villains). Most of these named characters are leading the charges in these wars so naturally they should have a higher casualty rate since resurrection seems to only be an in game mechanism, but the list of hero deaths mostly includes Horde leaders and a couple of them happened through treachery (Garrosh using poison and then the Horde turning on Garrosh). The alliance hasn't seen much death in their leadership over that time. That's why i liked Dragonflight so much, it wasn't about the Horde or the Alliance. It was about the dragons coming home and then facing a world ending threat (The Primalists) almost on their own. Sure the Night Elves were there, but they were focused on saving the new world tree. Now the Flights have their aspectral powers again and are possibly stronger now than when the Titans were still alive with a new Flight gaining an aspect.

I hope some of the Dragonscale Expedition people will continue to be around for some years. They don't feel like larger than life heroes, just people.

The problem with slamming in new characters is there is a plethora of characters that have existed and got no time to be established. For example, Nazgrel was there when Orgrimmar was first built, but beyond being a questgiver in tBC, the dude has been burning a hole in Thrallmar since 2007. If they bring him back now for a story role, he'll feel disjointed, which is a problem with both Calia and Tess. Even if you're a lorenerd, there's a good chance you'll have to look up who these characters even are, and even then there's a good chance the characters seem so foreign that it makes the story uncanny. New characters should show up, but the storywriters also need to include them in the universe enough to be interesting. Also don't turn them into raid bosses. Garrosh was really just getting interesting in Cata before he just flips on his head going full evil, and they killed Zaela and Nazgrim off for good measure. All of those characters could have been great storytelling devices to escape Thrall being the Orc focal point (for which even he seems to be tired of), but they were purged for content. So while WoW lore needs to move on, it also needs to tether some stuff to Azeroth first, and it seems the game is capable of doing neither.

I’m hoping by expansion titan we may get “world of Warcraft: legacy reborn” in here they will show thrall son taking title of chieftain and anduin as kings and have a son as well. And Tess greymane as a new queen of gilenas. And for forsaken I’m unsure what gonna happen but I want to learn more about calia menethil and see where she at in a few years. Also really hoping the new character will take place of the old character position and thing

I think a healthy mix between newly introduced character and old characters is key. With nuance and care you can make it work. WoW also has this unique problem of being old itself so you just don’t have a singular mind keeping track of all the stuff happening. That’s why you have characters diverging from their seemingly sensible paths into utter chaos or negligence.

when it comes to newer Charaters in the WOW lore, i really liked Zekhan (the troll at sauerfangs side during BFA). I really wish that he returns inside the game. Not just as an Troll representitiv, but as the new Icone of honor that Sauerfang was, but in his own way. Also he and Prinsess Talanji really had a think in the book "Shadows Rising". He was heaverly burned and was healing inside Zuldazar , in that story. He would be awesome to have back in the game.

As someone who also coincidentally started with mop while being 12, I have to wholeheartedly agree with how relatable and also organic Anduin's fate throughout the times felt! And it's also sad to see that he's somehow also one of the very few characters who actually got this treatment. Newer developments in story telling have me a liiittle bit more hopeful and I really do hope the story writers go continue to invest more time to properly develop other characters and make them shine. ((also as someone who used to be a huge Sylvanas fan, I hope she's gonna be in the Maw for a longer time and not have any additional arc(s) any time soon, pls.))

As far as the question for 6:04 We've got Scalecommander Emberthal, I guess.

Speaking of new characters, as a paladin main I hope Arator and Delas get some spotlight. Since in the coming xpacs the Void and Alleria will be pretty important, Arator will probably want to help/save his mom. Also, with Night Elves having the new city Belamieth, Delas could be something as one of the few NIght Elf paladins. Especially since she was spotted in the city.

Six!!! I was 12 and started in pandaria too!!! Were twins!!

MoP was so good but I'm also biased because I also started there as a teen

I was 42 when I started playing WoW (though I had played the RTS games as well). Tirion Fordring was my guy. Though I'll admit that is largely based on what I read about his history in the novels, rather than what I saw in-game.

Is anything going on with Moira's son? He'll have to have an interesting arc for sure.

The first main character that got me hooked onto WoW's lore was Sylvanas, but the characters that carry that torch forward for me now are characters like Talia Fordragon and Tess Greymane. I cheered when Genn passed the torch onto his daughter, and stopped mopping around about Liam.

The interesting part is how many characters (and opportunities) WoW has. Thrall son (giving a proper youn orc model, please), Zekhan and Rokhan, Princess Talanji. There is so much room for the characters introduced (I know Rokhan is from W3, but he could receive more spot) in the MMO to grow up like Varian and Anduin and so much room for new characters as well. Characters and plots, WoW has those, but it would need to be brave and stopping using just the same characters, over and over again

Surprised he didn't mention Saurfang and Zappy.

The last thing we need is new half baked young characters like toddy whiskers to do absolutely nothing for a storyline. We need a new game engine, and a singular devastating boss enemy to fight. The most successful times in wows history, the lich king, deathwing.

LETS GOOOOO! NEW VIDEOOOO! But yes, i do think its time fornold heros to pass on the torch and many have. Saurfang to Zappy Boi, Ysera to her daughter, Varian to Anduin, and a few others. Its time for new names to put etched into warcrsft history and build up their own legacy.

How there's a Smite 2 coming before a WoW 2 is insane to me

World of warcraft is basically the same age as me (me being older by a few months) I enjoyed playing the story with my father. He has now since been playing classic and that does not interest me nearly as much. I really do feel like at some point the torch will be passed to us (The younger players) in terms of content being made for retail, maybe it already has.

Honestly as someone who really started playing during Cata IMO I always enjoy the softer focus characters who are consistently present but the story doesn't really feel the need to have them be involved in everything. Lillian Voss is actually a solid example, she's been consistently present since Cata and done cool stuff and they've essentially set her and Calia up as part of the leadership for the Forsaken.

Honestly, I'm struggling because I really like Anduin too, the alliance zones, story, etc a lot more than the Horde. However, my favorite race is the Nightborne lol. I don't like having alts and sorta wanna stick to one thing, especially after having had come back after almost a decade of not playing and needing to make a new account for it. sigh, idk what to do.

man i really want to see a rts warcraft 4, i think wc3 had interesting ideas game-play wise, maybe some fellas could make a sorta spiritual successor

"Sylvanas broke free through sheer determination and spite". Aren't we forgetting about someone?

i think you leaved some sfx in mono so it only sounds on the left side of the headphone, other than that, great video

I'm still waiting for them to do something more with Rexxar. MoP, BFA, no show, despite there being some key moments that he would absolutely show up to. What, was he out fishing or something?