Where Trads Can Go Wrong w/ Bishop Scott McCaig 

Traditional mass made me come back. No lukewarmnes. No sympathy for the Devil. Viva Cristo Rey

Set our eyes upon Christ. I can’t control what goes on in the church but I can stay faithful and never take my focus off my Lord. He alone sustains me.

As I have found myself trending toward Traditional Catholicism, my disappointment/anger typically stems from two things: injustice towards the Eucharist and a feeling of being deprived of the riches of our predecessors. It does not help that current pontificate seems ready to purge us from the pews.

I didn’t experience traditional Catholic masses until I moved to Baltimore and I absolutely became more interested in my faith. The reverence was beautiful and I wanted to be part of it

Amid all the CHAOS..I am consoled by my faith and trust in JESUS, I TRUST IN YOU. JMJ

Fr.Ripperger has a good talk about this. It is called "Traditionalist Problems ~ Fr Ripperger" on Sensus Fidelium youtube chanell.

As a “Trad” I tend to think that where some of us clumped into that tent go wrong is that, while I usually get annoyed that it seems like the modern church forgets there was a church prior to 1962, (heaven forbid we quote a council that’s not V2 or a pope that wasn’t JPII) it also seems that sometimes the trads can forget that the church continued on after 1962. I hear the bishop on the anger thing, but Jesus was angry sometimes too, I remember this famous story about Him flipping tables and whipping people out of the temple. There is a just anger. Anger at injustice is just. Many trads are angry at the watering down of the liturgy and faith. And the injustice comes when we have seen an entire generation practically disappear from the pews (except for the traditional parishes) and instead of recognizing the poor fruit of the post conciliar changes and consider a restoration, they double down time and time again on things that don’t “build the house” of faith on rock. I’ve seen many peers be “on fire” for the faith back in high school and college cause Praise and worship was fun, but have no signs of supernatural faith into adulthood. The anger is at the real possibility the salvation of souls is no longer the central mission of the bishops and has been replaced with appeasing politicians and the world to seem relevant. There are plenty of Mea Culpas to go around, trads aren’t perfect and yes it’s true even that just anger can become disordered and a tool of the devil if not tempered. But we have great joy too. I am at awe of the Glory of God when I assist at the Mass that the saints also went to. I love seeing the whole life and history of the church brought to life in front of our very eyes. More than anything I love Our Lord and Our God who bestowed upon us this most precious Bride and faith. I get angry when we see her mistreated ;). God love you!

I can’t disagree with anything his excellency says, but, bishops have an obligation toward all of the faithful, not just those who “do what they’re told.” Also, matters in the “external forum” have a tendency to become very widely known, i.e. Traditional Latin Mass goers are, in many places, being strongly urged, or even given an ultimatum to assist at the Novus ordo, or else, while those who believe that denying Holy Communion to politicians who support abortion without limit are told that they are being unpastoral. I am very thankful that a bishop is willing to show understanding toward those who are angry, and to be authentically Christian is to accept trial, but trials put on us by a hierarchy that has frittered away its moral authority by its own actions is very hard to take. Let us pray for one another.

It sounds like his Excellency is implying “don’t focus on the liturgy, focus on evangelization and Catechesis.” To this, we restorationists reply: “Lex orandi, lex credendi.” Restore the Liturgy, and we can evangelize as we did for almost 1940 years prior to the Novus Ordo.

I feel if the rosary was preached more of there was a great emphasis on the sacramental . Many would find peace and go back to the church.

What's Christ's mission? Saving souls. When the rubber hits the road, lousy liturgy which is the norm is detracting from our faith in Christ. I say this being a Trad who is super open to different perspectives and understanding others. I feel like I've been listening so long and that it comes down to cowardice. I watched adults tuck their tails and go with the flow as a child victim of a 10 year divorce battle, told "it's not my fault" and "it's okay" when none of it was. I sat in pews while my trans dad and lesbian mom lived their lives and no priest spoke about any of this. Everything was shuffled under the couch. I feel like that's the liturgical debate. Casual mass, weak faith, lay people who aren't invigorated by countercultural liturgy... in practice learning to go with the flow and not make others uncomfortable.... And we're losing our identity. I lost my family, I can't lose my Catholic family. I tried the casual stuff for years, trying to understand and be open but I felt my faith dying with it. Sorry, it's time for the Bishops to educate, defend, and spread the faith. No more politics. Fathers defend your families. I don't agree.

I would like to see an interview with the question “where non-Trads/Novus Ordo adherents can go wrong” to balance the discussion.

Mad, jaded and angry sounds like Pope Francis.

Misguided or overly-zealous "Trads" are a small issue compared to the problems they are reacting against.

"There is a great danger for the enemy to take what is a good desire and twist it into something [bad/evil]". The bishop summed up what happened with the Liturgical reform without seeming to realize it. 😐

I don't know that Ralph Martin would agree with how he was just characterized. Mr. Martin is speaking VERY directly, but with charity, about problems as he sees them and not backing off to only a softer, joyful approach. I don't disagree that we need to live in joy as best we can. On a second point, I'm not saying this is what this clip was about BUT... I always find it interesting that when cultural liberals are in charge and pushing damaging agenda's there is a "sit down and shut up, we're in charge" attitude. But when there are conservative people at the helm then it's "Hey, we all need to work together and get along and tone down the rhetoric and anger." Cultural or church liberals NEVER give ground on anything without a furious fight but conservatives seem to always be put into a position of "You're so angry! You have to compromise"

The house is on fire and the father is abusive. But the "problem" is with those pointing it out. Sheesh.

I always find it interesting when Matt Fradd criticises Trads over liturgical issues when it doesn't affect him because he attends an an Easter Rite Catholic Church. He has the privilege of participating in a Byzantine Rite, which at least for the time being isn't being undermined by the Novo Ordo supporting leadership.

Let’s walk the path of holiness together.

Trust me, Excellency, Traditional Catholics are indeed focused on Jesus. And we're ready to die a thousand insults, calumnies, presumptions and actual deaths for Him.

Amen! Thank you! I loved this!

Nah you are so off point. We "Trads" hate the way people treat the Lord in the Tabernacle. That's our biggest worry.

Well said Bishop Scott McCaig 👏👏 Let us as Catholics all get along with each other and stop judging. Instead let's pray for peace, faith, love and unity. We are all God's children and loved endlessly. God bless 🙏✝️

His excellency's criticism is fair but I don't think this is just a criticism for just Trads but all Catholics. By targeting the Trads only you just make them become more defensive. When you back someone into a corner they lash out; it is instinct.

Here’s my take on the church problems. The church is a bureaucracy. Unfortunately it has become self-serving, corrupt, and inefficient, you know bureaucratic! Meanwhile we the sheep are being neglected by those bureaucratic shepherds, hence all of the infighting on Catholic media. I need the Church to be a stabilizing force in my life and I feel like it has failed miserably in that regard even at the local level! There’s no sense of community that there should be and the church leaders don’t seem to care either. It’s very sad! Also with so much chaos there’s confusion! I need spiritual counseling out of all of this and I would like to turn to my priest but I can’t because he like the one before him seems to be burned out of the vocation. I am now going to my former priest (two priests before my current one) who is retired and lives an hour away for such counseling. But let’s just say I am not really happy with the Church right now.

McCaig: "Pope Francis comes along and people have a lot of questions about Pope Francis. It feels like he's doing a lot of questionable things or things that we would think are wrong." Talk about an understatement! Here is the only acceptable description of a legitimate Successor of St. Peter: "The Pope has the divine promises; even in his human weaknesses, he is invincible and unshakable; he is the messenger of truth and justice, the principle of the unity of the Church; his voice denounces errors, idolatries, superstitions; he condemns iniquities; he makes charity and virtue loved." (Pius XII, Address Ancora Una Volta, Feb. 20, 1949.) Remember: this is not a description of what the pope should be, but what the pope actually *is*.

I am South African and was always taught that priests come and go as do popes. We go to church for the sacraments not aesthetics. Been asking myself lately what would say do if he were here in person. It changed the way I teach catechism. Sadly what I see is people becoming more and like the pharisees and forget the poor spiritual or material.

When you work in intelligence, there is a concept known as "bleeding". If you want to hinder or eliminate a movement, you subvert the elements of that movement that are most dedicated to its cause, usually by convincing the majority middle that those zealous elements are actually bad for the movement or even traitors. In this way, support for the true goal is "bled" out and the movement becomes an inert force, like a pressure release valve. This is what people like Matt are doing to the traditionalist movement. By trying to appeal to what seems like a "rational majority" and discrediting the "fringe", he is actually shunning those most dedicated to the shared cause and dividing the church further.

Trad view: "the Church is always correct right up until I say it isn't."

This just struck me as a lot of word salad to avoid and misrepresent actual issues.

Great conversation!

Ok I needed this. I need to keep my focus on Jesus.

The movement back to Tradition is the movement away from Cardinal McCarrick’s boys! How ‘bout we get an investigation and a cleaning of the house!!!

Your guest shared on how he has seen people start out on fire with our lord only to become jaded. He says he feels like shaking these people and say can’t you see what’s happened. I think he should have as is that not part of accountability. I think about myself experiences and how often someone could have helped me avoid bad decisions by helping me become aware. I think that is part of the problem we are more interested in being like vs the right and moral thing.

God bless for the truth!

Praise Be Our Lord Jesus Christ!!!

In my experience, having been involved in catholic and protestant charismatic circles, a crowd or indeed a self proclaimed ‘guru’ always floats to the top.

I am just sadden how I go to masss and barely hear people sing or respond when we are suppose to respond.

Church is the place to save the souls when the world is getting chaotic, it should be timeless and unchanged.

Amen, Father 😌

Traditional Latin Mass brings back more people to the church than the devices of the liberal bishops. Thanks to Traditional Latin Mass. let's not sum up that all trads are judgemental. I am not a trad to judge others, But to save souls and my own soul.

Yes, someone can be a devout Catholic and have confidence in the Norvus Ordo form. Though I don’t attend the Latin mass even though it’s available to me, I do appreciate the perspective traditionalists bring and I think it has a good influence on those that have gotten lax as Catholics as it reminds them that being a Catholic isn’t passive .I don’t believe TLM is the only way to go about becoming a serious Catholic.

Excellent

Yep, we are angry, Vatican II foolishness has hurt all Catholics. Please your Grace don’t white wash this issue. 🌺✝️🌺

He’s so right.

Yeah...I have no idea what the Bishop is talking about. We have error, we have sin, we are lost. Go back to basics. Go back to what previously worked. Go back, get the fundamentals correct and then try. That means post Vatican II.

“…just maybe some of our security was in things that are here today and gone tomorrow”. 👏🏼😌⛪️

🙏🏻🕊❤️‍🔥AMEN!❤️‍🔥🕊🙏🏻

As somebody who loves reverence and tradition, the modern day trads are overly focused on the method of worship than the worship itself. “Don’t worship the worship, worship God.”

only when I came to the TLM did I start to take my faith and the Eucharist seriously

Many of us who aren't trads needed to hear this also. It's so easy to be focused on everything wrong that you lose the joy and peace of Christ. Amen.

Amen truth!!

Sheesh. Minute 2 gets you going. Great discussion! Encouraging and charging.

Sounds like you don’t understand the traditional Latin Mass if you think people’s desire for it has to do with an “inordinate fervor.”

The Latin Mass Society was not about a safe space let alone 'going back' to something long gone; in AD 1965, when the Society was started, the very foundations of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass were under attack, nothing much has changed today. And seeking to provide this Holy Sacrifice of Mass offered in the Roman Rite - unaltered in essentials, forms, and customs, as required by the Second Vatican Council (but already being ignored) - shows that little has shifted since then (though now mostly coalesced around the Missal of Pope St John XXIII and the Missal promulgated by Pope St Paul VI). Indeed genuine charismatics (in the Catholic sense) are to be found in communities offering one or other, or both, of these Rites (once assumed to be the same Rite now admitted to be quite different, or more or less incompatible, theologically). Where the Faithful - those committed to Sacred Tradition, aka The Faith - go wrong is .. in allowing the discussion to be reduced to a matter of taste rather than truth. This shift in focus is wholly at odds with the founding principles of the Latin Mass Society etc .. and, moreover, what most Charismatics seem to regard as their common denominator. Great stuff as always PwA. Cheers! Keep the Faith; tell the truth, shame the devil, and let the demons shriek. God bless. ;o) P.S. Our devotional life (of prayer et al) is where taste comes in. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a matter of fact rather than emotion, and therefore requires the truth. So, if the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the once-for-all Sacrifice on the Cross, re-presented at the altars of the Church, then something more than what we like is the crux of the matter; and our beliefs about it, attitudes towards it, and participation in it require a great deal of careful consideration (certainly more than whether or not to have bubbles, liturgical dances, talk-show host celebrants, or songs from a 1968 CE Peter, Paul and Mary* LP). * Long before 'my time' but I do like the pop versions of folksy music by P, P and M, played on my grandparents' radiogramme; but where they fit into the Divine Liturgy, I have yet to be shown, other than as a jolly sing-a-long in memory - of Christ's bloody death .. on the festival Day of His Resurrection, honouring the Blessed Virgin, or recalling the witness of some worthy soul or other.

The Magisterium has failed in its duties for the last 100 years. I ask all to join me in praying daily that Our Father in Heaven would manifest The Holy Spirit to and in all these descendants of the Apostles of The Church of His Son Jesus The Christ. That The Holy Spirit would bring all these Bishops to repentance from their finacial corruptions and homosexual predations and all the apostosies and heresies they have promulgated in their pursuit of modernism and power. That The Holy Spirit would make ALL of these Bishops good and faithful shepards of The Church of His Son Jesus The Christ. That The Holy Spirit would protect and raise up all the bishops and priests that have remained faithful to the teachings of His Son Jesus The Christ.

I think where Rad trads can go wrong is where they become so set in their ways where they basically become sedevaticanosts. I’ve seen this trend on RU-vid which is sad because then they cease to be Catholic. The TLM and community are great for the most part but sometimes I think they forget that God is still revealing more of himself to the Catholic Church like he has to his people through out all of history.

Amen!!

Bishop I’m on board!

I think it’s this kind of criticism of “trads” that made me stop tuning into Pints with Aquinas. It was great for a while until it seemed like Matt tried to distance himself from the “trad” or TLM world. Why? Of course there are sinners in each camp. We are all sinners. But at a critical time, shortly after Traditionis Custodes came out, Matt chose to distance himself from the trad/TLM movement (which in my opinion has been organic and fruitful)-sitting on the fence and throwing “trads” under the bus. Not all of us live in Steubenville and have access to beautiful and reverent Novus Ordo masses.

I have problem with ‘trad’ label. There are Catholics and non-Catholics in one common space. That is all!

"reject vatican ii! reject novus ordo! we need to go back to tradition!" and the tradition in question is less than 500 years old.

He did not address the changes and if the trads actually have a point. Why can't he see its his and others who are changing things, causing anxiety. So have joy in your changes is what I'm hearing... 😢

Very insightful. Thank you.

Like the Eucharist, accessible today, not accessible tomorrow…so why should we strip ourselves even from that because we are attached too much?

If you are NOT angry then you are NOT paying attention

Honestly, I had a hard time grasping the real meat of what he actually said there. It seemed like a lot of feel good sentimental talk that isn’t really very helpful in our real concrete situation. I’m not mad; I just want to raise my family in a traditional authentically Catholic way, and (largely because of the current hierarchy) that’s very difficult to do currently.

Normie Caths who only attend NO hear of my Trad parish, which is the only one in my diocese of 100 parishes, and they always comment on how beautiful the liturgy is. Many have been to the parish at least once but regularly attend NO. They would be open to more TLM but the Bishop and their pastor never lets it happen. Until my cardinal nukes the TLM here, I will continue to bring my family to the best mass we have available.

‘We become mean-spirited.’ Who is more mean-spirited than Francis? These banal explanations of ecclesial disaster are more than trying. The bishop sounds like a Protestant half the time.

It’s hard to be evangelical as the good bishop suggests, when our priests and bishops, and sadly even our Pope not only oppose our doing so, but even send messages to the public that are antithetical to the Church and her gospel.

In trying to keep it together..what I have seen among world religions..especially the ancient ones..is the mistake of worshiping the religion instead of God. it's such a fine line to cross...that most don't know they've done it!

Glad Trads are way more attractive and healthy. No one wants to listen or deal w/ whiners or doomers who look like losers. We have Jesus Christ. That’s endless joy.

If it’s not love it’s not of God 😢

I am a Roman. The Church is visible and ordained but also it’s Wordly power is not it’s life. We must constantly turn our attention, call it back rather be called back to the crucified Lord.

I am known as the "Bible Priest," but there was a time forty years ago when I was known as the "Latin Priest." I have taught Latin, and I love Latin, because it is the glorious rayment in which the Roman Rite has been vested for 1600 years. But, as I look back, I see that it also for many centuries veiled the glory of the Gospel proclaimed in the church. There is a point in the marriage ceremony where the veil is pulled back, for the benefit of the bridegroom's kiss. The new rite, with the expanded lectionary, has opened the riches of the Bible, which have given greater nourishment to the people of God now for fifty years. Latin and the Bible should be able to coexist with each other in a truly Catholic Church. The Baltimore Catechism taught that the two pillars of the faith are Scripture and Tradition, and it is erroneous to set them at odds with each other. I will fight for the essential unity of all truths until my dying breath!

Just don’t have the priest face the congregation, have everybody get a sign of peace and hugging each other, joining hands, etc. If you must have English, then change nothing of the Extra-ordinary form except the language.

If it's NOT BROKE DONT FIX IT!!!!!!

What a wise Bishop! I wish there were more Bishops like you. I hope that Matt Fradd now understands that his desire for something "standard, that doesn't change, that is reliable" is to be found in Jesus: Matt's great need for "something" ...... that something is someone: Jesus. As for the Pope; he is Christ's representative on Earth. I believe that he is closer to God than any of us will ever be. Who are we to put ourselves above him, and think we know better than the man to whom God has entrusted the seat of Peter. To my mind it is an arrogance and a vanity to question God's wisdom. I don't believe that there is a man (or woman) alive, who by sincerely praying in great humility and acceptance of the wonderful and mysterious wisdom of God, remains confused as to the role and actions of the Pope. This Pope suffers greatly, and needs all our prayers as his suffering escalates. Some people are blindly clinging to tradition instead of putting their trust in Jesus. Fighting about which Mass is best is distracting from where the real war is being waged. I believe that God is allowing His humble servant to be used in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. But this is just my discernment. Each one must pray for their own discernment and put their trust in The Lord, who is the Head of the Church. The Old Protestants couldn't destroy it, neither will the New Protestants. Viva Cristo Rey

The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of erring priests, with bishops as their signposts” - ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM.

And Ralph Martin is ALWAYS full of the love of Christ!

It's hard to hear this. My birthright has been stolen and disfigured. My children have abandoned the faith. I am angry.

I thought of Taylor Marshall when bishop was speaking.

Focus on Jesus and less on th battle. GOD never losses. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt have judgement. Neccessary is to separete GOD eternal from the shaft.

I don't know where I fit in anymore. I see the "Trads" and hear them talk about the "beauty and reverence" of the latin mass, but when I watch the latin mass, I see no place for me. Likewise, I can not abide the "bubble mass," the "guitar mass," nor the "gay dads" mass. Can the bishop not see the "great danger (of) the enemy to take what is a good desire and twist it into something bad" applies to the mainstream (for lack of a better term) Catholic church as well?

May the will of our Father made known by His Son through the power of the Holy Spirit triumph and reign in all hearts through Ever Virgin Most Powerful Mother of God Mary - crush evil! Jesus, I trust in You to throw to the ground all corrupted Catholics in Church and government off their asses like you did with Saul so we can witness your forgiveness, justice and mercy all over again! Vengeance is Yours!

Very wise words!

But, but... So-called "kerygmatic" (in reality "bullshit," anti-intellectual, ahistorical, anti-incarnational) evangelization is one of the things that needs to be subjected to severe critique in the Church today! That's where our joy needs to come from, from a rejection of dumbed-down neutered religion, and a return to the adventure of intelligent honest apostolic religion in continuity with the all that the Holy Spirit has gifted to us through the Church of the ages.

A: See the Dominicans. They have a clear understanding of the purge that's happening.

Put your cassock on, your excellency

Surely he made a point that trads are must more needed inside the Church but within a true spirit within our Lord for overcome other kind of spirits, like the ecumenical one, how Christian we are called for loving and save other souls and share to them the truth about the life in grace of God.

Been a Charismatic all my growing years, read the Bible all my growing years. preached to others on how to be a good Catholic, and yet didn't have a clue on how to live in Grace and Sanctification. You are dead wrong Bishop. Do you even realize how conveniently Catholics are mislead in the name of popular feel good religion. Today, I am humbled to know Christ and His most holy Mother and my Catholic Faith given to us by the Apostles, Martyrs and the Saints without the flavor of Protestantism. Miserere mei, Deus.

If people like the TLM then great! Although the church still needs to respond to what God wants for the Mass following Vatican II. We need more Masses that have reverent sacred music and keep traditions that would be universal. Obviously the Holy Spirit wants the Church to bring all of God’s children to holiness. We need to throw out the crazy liberal liturgies and fulfill what the Holy Spirit intended.

Bloody means… ?

Marshall just making his comma’s

Our human expectations sim to me to be the problem or at least part of our issues just saying

It's great to hear a priest speaking like thank you very match ❤️❤️❤️

Gal 2

I agree with this bishop 🙂🙂🙂

You see, Matt - this shake from the bishop (at 2:50) is also for you. Please see what is going on. Please see that in every other episode of PwA the subjects of "liturgical chaos" and "ambiguity and errors of Pope Francis" come up, and the stance taken here is that of critique, accusation, bitterness, even despair, all politely finished with a debate covering. The acts and words of Pope Francis are interpreted in the worse way, the Church's guidance on contemporary topics is received with suspicion or not received at all. Your great work from the past six years cannot find its way through bitterness and result on mistrust against the Holy Father and the Church. Please, allow yourself to be shaken by Bishop McCaig. We all need that.

Coping gymnastics